Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
this is such a weird take for me.
the reason MS lost is because they didnt even focus on games and instead pushed the always online BS.
sony on the other hand has always been about the games and now even more than ever with their games ending up as some of the best sellers of the year.
The article is basically about a concern regarding the new closer relationship between Sony's music, movies and gaming departements, how Playstation moves away from being focused on just games.
But it really wasn't a problem on Xbox One and it won't be a problem on PS5, it just means that we'll get easier access to music and movies on our console, unless they put the whole Naughty Dog to do the UI I can't see how it can be bad.
 

Desfrog

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,113
The only way I can see Sony properly dropping the ball and losing significant ground is not having BC, which is very unlikely. Otherwise they've built up a pretty incredible roster of IP's this gen which I don't see Microsoft overcoming. Spider-Man 2 and God of War 2 are gonna push units like crazy.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,615
The PS4 Pro is woefully underpowered.

They don't have a competitor to Gamepass, a service that not only offers a wealth of content but also day one access to exclusives.

They have 0 backwards compatibility.

The latter two are huge, huge features. I begrudgingly own a PS4 purely because they have a dramatically better library than MS, and l'll always own every console I need to play the best games, but the PS4 is a bummer. My X does everything better and offers amazing services that are nowhere to be found on PS4. Like I had to go buy a PS3 to play the MGS series because PS1, 2 and 3 games are inexplicably not backwards compatible even digitally.

They have had ps now for years. I don't understand how MS manages to get some of these narratives to stick - but it's like psnow doesn't exist. The only real difference is the MS day one stuff which is really because MS need to offer something to draw people in - which Sony as market leader doesn't. Do you really think MS would offer all their first party games day one on gamepass if the market positions were reversed? I mean - maybe if their aim is to migrate to being a virtual software platform and drop hardware completely..


begrudgingly own a PS4 purely because they have a dramatically better library than MS

Just..what? This sounds a bit silly so i'm Sure there is more context. Why would you begrudgingly buy something that offers you dramatically better stuff?
 

kadotsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,514
med/
The article is basically about a concern regarding the new closer relationship between Sony's music, movies and gaming departements, how Playstation moves away from being focused on just games.
But it really wasn't a problem on Xbox One and it won't be a problem on PS5, it just means that we'll get easier access to music and movies on our console, unless they put the whole Naughty Dog to do the UI I can't see how it can be bad.
The only way I could see closer integration of different departments being bad is if Sony went completely galaxy brain and went: No Spotify, No Twitch, No Amazon Video, use our services or tough luck. I seriously doubt that they will do it because they have usage statistics for the PS4.
 

Raylan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
715
Sony didn't win this gen so much as it was handed to them by Microsoft and Nintendo(Wii U). They got very lucky, but that luck always had a shelf life and it's beginning to run out.

Looking at how Smash completely crushed GOW and Spiderman sales on a much smaller install base proves that insulated $60, single player console exclusives aren't exactly a winning stragedy all by themselves going forward.

Sony needs to find a way to innovate in the same way Microsoft has with services and Nintendo has with hardware because great games are a dime a dozen, literally so on Xbox now. I feel like Microsoft and Nintendo are seeing the bigger picture.
This is meme worthy. lmao
 

erlim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,562
London
I really do foresee a massive Sony fall next gen. Their brand leadership seems to be pretty out of touch with their fans as far as their policy goes; BC and crossplay may be handwaved by a lot of people in discussion, but they do show that they are stubbornly and brazenly willing to go against their customers' will.

Their first party game is incredible right now, but if they don't maintain that level and output in quality, yikes. I am in constant concern as a Sony fan.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
med/

The only way I could see closer integration of different departments being bad is if Sony went completely galaxy brain and went: No Spotify, No Twitch, No Amazon Video, use our services or tough luck. I seriously doubt that they will do it because they have usage statistics for the PS4.
That would still be better than nothing at all except games as far as I see it. If people don't want to listen to music or see movies through the console then just don't do that. Integrating more entertainmente to the console is a 100% bs concern tbh as long as it doesn't affect the game output, and why would it do that? :P
 
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fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,833
England
It's dangerously similar to how MS end 360, coasting on core games, focus on VR and other none gaming stuff,
ignore indies, zero communication with gamers, what is even happening in SIE?

Microsoft are STILL in that place right now and what Sony have done is a million miles away of the software front. Microsoft got stick, rightfully, for dumping out a bunch of partnered software on launch, before sitting back expecting third party to tick over while Halo/Forza/Gears did their thing. Literally those titles. If you want to die on a hill, what software Sony provides for its ecosystem Vs Microsoft is not it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
I don't know. This is my point. We keep hearing about Sony's mistakes that would make them losing next gen ,when they keep selling millions more console than Microsoft...
Ah I see your point now.

Sony isn't without their problems (things like pre-orders on digital or how hard it is to refund sucks) but those are relatively minor issues that most people don't even care about them that much.
 

test_account

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,655
Sony didn't win this gen so much as it was handed to them by Microsoft and Nintendo(Wii U). They got very lucky, but that luck always had a shelf life and it's beginning to run out.
Thats true, but we can also flip it and say that Microsoft and Nintendo were really unlucky that Sony came out with a more attractive product than what they had to offer. This would show that one of the system manufacturer were able to make a system that most people wanted to buy, compared to what the competitors offered. So its not really just about being lucky. They were able to be successful because they put a lot of work into making a product that people wanted to buy. Its true that its some luck based though, since the system manufacturers doesnt know how the market will react to their product before it lauches. But that applies to all systems.
 

jeromeSF

Member
Nov 2, 2017
402
BC and crossplay may be handwaved by a lot of people in discussion, but they do show that they are stubbornly and brazenly willing to go against their customers' will.
And they still sold millions more consoles that Microsoft. Most of the people don't care about BC, most of the people don't care about crossplay, most of the people don't care about Gamepass. And let's be real, most of the people in most the countries don't care about Xbox (outside of the US, sales are something like 65M vs 17M)
 

E.T.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,035
And they still sold millions more consoles that Microsoft. Most of the people don't care about BC, most of the people don't care about crossplay, most of the people don't care about Gamepass. And let's be real, most of the people in most the countries don't care about Xbox (outside of the US, sales are something like 65M vs 17M)
Accurate post.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,091
Thats true, but we can also flip it and say that Microsoft and Nintendo were really unlucky that Sony came out with a more attractive product than what they had to offer. This would show that one of the system manufacturer were able to make a system that most people wanted to buy, compared to what the competitors offered. Its true that its some luck based though, since the system manufacturers doesnt know how the market will react to their product before it lauches. But that applies to all systems.
Dunno about Nintendo, but Microsoft changed strategy halfway through with the Kinect giving Sony the chance to recover (in the PS360 generation) and they decided to push that strategy in this console cycle as well with even more dumb stuff. They had plenty of signs that they where screwing up and willfully chose to ignore these signs. I agree it does take some luck to anticipate where the market is going, but Microsoft was willfully ignoring what the market was telling them.
 
Jan 17, 2019
964
MS set the trend of charging for multiplayer last-gen while Sony offered free multiplayer. Now Sony has adopted MS's shitty trend. However, MS does offer free cloud saves while Sony requires PS Plus. Honestly, the notion of paying for multiplayer and cloud saves is pretty ridiculous but apparently console players are willing to do it. MS did pay for timed PUBG exclusivity but Sony pays for DLC timed (and sometimes permanent) exclusivity for a much broader range of games. This is the opposite of what they did last gen, where they even specifically called out timed exclusivity as a shitty business practice. Sony also doesn't have an early access program so a lot of early access games are Xbox console exclusives. That's not because MS bribed them but because Sony simply isn't providing a service that developers want.

At the end of the day, MS and Sony are corporations that will do whatever it takes to dominate the market. That usually means being customer-centric and giving people what they want. However, once they gain that lead, they get arrogant and start pulling back. It happened with MS last gen and it's happening with Sony this gen.



That seems like a highly questionable number. $100m is open-world territory, not linear 6 hour shooter territory. It's much more likely that Gears 5 is in the $60-70m range.

You forgot that MS threw money on EA's desk for FIFA Ultimate this gen. That lasted almost 4 years, even if MS was on losing track ( still is ) by a huge margin in Europe. Hm....bugs me how first DMC 5 demo ended ONLY on Xbox, hm? Also, like i mentioned, you don't need to dominate market, yet doing some shitty practices, like MS is charging you to play F2P games, unlike Sony and Nintendo.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,615
It's dangerously similar to how MS end 360, coasting on core games, focus on VR and other none gaming stuff,
ignore indies, zero communication with gamers, what is even happening in SIE?

My personal impression of MS compared to Sony with first party support

- I trust Sony to continue to provide first party content right through to the end of the generation when the new gen comes out. PS4 launch windows had some of the biggest PS3 games coming out.
- I don't trust MS to do the same. They have shown (previously) a history of front loading first party support around launch, and then tailing off for the second half of the generation.

Fundamentally Sony gets my benefit of the doubt, MS needs to prove they won't do the same again.
 
Oct 30, 2017
636
Canada
Cross-play should be universal with few exceptions next gen, and I don't think Sony will miss the message on that. I was hoping it would have occurred this generation, but it seems we had to wait till the tail end. The second point is absurd since every media gaint offers a suite of services. What the Hell would Apple be without movies, music, games? Same for MS, or Google. You offer it all or your competitor picks up the slack and that revenue.

I think Sony's biggest potential misstep this year is to not announce a PS5 or host some kind of private media event. I don't think they'll be mum all year, though. I still think a 2019 PS5 launch is possible, regardless of what most of Era says. That's not founded on anything other than intuition.
 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
8,145
Sony has done exactly what MS needed to do to stay on top, build a strong 1st party. During the 360 era it basically felt like MS's 1st party went backwards. This gen Sony's 1st party is grown immensely and they now have lots of must have exclusives.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,023
Sony must be the luckiest company in the world. All these gens - the majority of which they've won - always handed to them by the competition and not because of anything they've done. Whew.
 

Taurus

Banned
Jun 15, 2018
733
And they still sold millions more consoles that Microsoft. Most of the people don't care about BC, most of the people don't care about crossplay, most of the people don't care about Gamepass. And let's be real, most of the people in most the countries don't care about Xbox (outside of the US, sales are something like 65M vs 17M)
This "Sony wins by default" line of thinking is just naive.

Most of the consumers don't have a brand loyalty. They just buy the best available product in the market according to their own opinion. The situation and competition resets in the beginning of every console generation.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,615
For me personally I hope MS' studio purchasing pays off - if they make more unique content then i'll Happily buy another Xbox. I still have a 1S mainly for forza as halo/gears doesn't do much for me. That's a good fight to have - battle of the first party exclusives, taking risks and trying new things - that would make me a happy multi-console owner
 

Harp

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,206
User Warned: Drive-By System Warring
holy crap this thread. the sony banana riding on Era is fucking REAL. i feel like I'm reading the typed words of the shit I heard my third grade classmates saying about sega and nintendo in 1995.
 

Doctor Avatar

Banned
Jan 10, 2019
2,666
I really do foresee a massive Sony fall next gen. Their brand leadership seems to be pretty out of touch with their fans as far as their policy goes; BC and crossplay may be handwaved by a lot of people in discussion, but they do show that they are stubbornly and brazenly willing to go against their customers' will.

PS5 is going to be fully backwards compatible with PS4. Which will work very much in PS5s favour vs Xbox Two, everybody who has a PS4 which is the majority of gamers will be incentivised to get a PS5 and not only that but with Sony ending the generation with bang when it comes to exclusives (Death Stranding, Days Gone, Dreams, Ghost of Tsushima etc) the PS5 instantly gets a lot of must have contemporary exclusives. Especially if the games are crossgen enhanced, which I can guarantee you they will be (likely 4k/60fps on PS5).

MS is in a vastly weaker position heading into this generation than Sony. Sony would need to royally mess up not to start with a huge head start. The ease of BC going from this gen to the next due to x86 combined with digital stores means the winner of this gen has a huge advantage. If there ever was a generation to win, this was the one. Sony are heading into next gen with a huge install base who will prefer to buy PS5 over Xbox due to the games they own and have on their online accounts, and with a huge back catalogue of contemporary exceptional exclusives the new Xbox will not have.

Their first party game is incredible right now, but if they don't maintain that level and output in quality, yikes. I am in constant concern as a Sony fan.

And their first party output has been incredible for 10 years, why would that change?

It is funny reading these hot takes, people do realise that Sony have beaten MS in every generation? MS had a year head start with the 360 and the PS3 launch was a disaster and Sony *still* managed to outsell 360 by the end of the generation.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,615
holy crap this thread. the sony banana riding on Era is fucking REAL. i feel like I'm reading the typed words of the shit I heard my third grade classmates saying about sega and nintendo in 1995.

Really? You see banana riding and don't see reasoned, logical arguments being used against the original article?
 

dom

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,586
Dunno about Nintendo, but Microsoft changed strategy halfway through with the Kinect giving Sony the chance to recover (in the PS360 generation) and they decided to push that strategy in this console cycle as well with even more dumb stuff. They had plenty of signs that they where screwing up and willfully chose to ignore these signs. I agree it does take some luck to anticipate where the market is going, but Microsoft was willfully ignoring what the market was telling them.
Kinect is the reason why Microsoft tied with Sony with consoles sold last gen. Microsoft saw it's best years with Kinect and that's why they pushed it so hard with the Xbox One. The problem is the Kinect audience is not the one to most likely buy a brand new console day one.
 

blacklotus

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,049
Yeah.. well. No.

PS5 only needs:
- Backwards compatibility
- Reasonable price with similar specs
- Continuous support of incredible first party games sprinkled with the few new IP's.
- Not doing stupid shit like Xbox tried before the launch of PS4/One.

Nothing makes me feel like they are about to do stupid shit. The crossplay stance makes (made?) sense when the player pool is so much bigger on your side but they buckled on it for Fortnite, so. And that type of thing isn't compared at all with 1 ping each 24hours or never doing anything else with your physical copy of the game. Or forcing you to buy hardware you don't want. Or patenting kinect tech that would allow your video streaming services to halt when a person from out of the household was detected watching the content and prompting a pay window, or telling people to buy the 360 if you don't have online, Etc. etc.etc.
 

PopsMaellard

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,381
Just..what? This sounds a bit silly so i'm Sure there is more context. Why would you begrudgingly buy something that offers you dramatically better stuff?

It's frustrating that the PS4 does none of what my X does. I wanted to play through Metal Gear Solid recently; I can't. PS4 doesn't have any form of backwards compatibility, so I had to buy a PS3. PS4 doesn't have crossplay, so when I want to play anything socially have to play those games with notably worse performance because my friend groups are primarily on PS4. PS Now isn't heavily laden with recent exclusives like Gamepass, so I can't easily catch up on the backlog of first party titles I missed.

The PS4 has an incredible library. It's also lacking features that I consider essential, so I didn't buy one until the lure of that backlog of amazing games, and multiplayer experiences I'd missed out on with my friends, became too much. So while The Last of Us is now my favorite game, and I had an incredible time with Spider-Man and I'm loving God of War, the system itself is really frustrating. I know these concerns don't apply to everyone, but yes, I bought it begrudgingly. I wish it was a better system and offered the features and services I expect a modern console to have.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
I don't know. This is my point. We keep hearing about Sony's mistakes that would make them losing next gen ,when they keep selling millions more console than Microsoft...
I don't think they'll lose, PS brand is too big now, but I absolutely think they need to be aggressive. MS will do anything in their power to get the loud enthusiast minority to talk about the power of XB2 on every social network there is, Sony need to avoid all performance and feature traps so MS don't get the upperhand on the PR. And people are clearly vocal about the pro-consumer and anti-consumer things now so they need to get a new snowball rolling in the right direction there too I think.
 

BradGrenz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,507
The CPU in the Xbox One is the same as the PS4 yet Xbox 360 emulation is working fine on it.

The CPU in the PS3 is twice as powerful than the CPU in the PS4. By contrast, the CPU in the 360 sucked ass.

Yes I know that.

The parallel I'm trying to draw here is of course for a PC emulator of a console your going to need a strong CPU. That's been the case with all emulators on PC. Dolphin needed one when that came out, PCSX2 needed one, Cemu etc.

That entirely depends on the system being emulated. Xbox lucked out that their previous generation CPU was so inefficient that games could run faster on a more modern design at half the clock-speed. The Cell processor was dangerously efficient, which is a large reason PS3 was so difficult to program for. Everything had to be programmed to its strengths, but when you did, you got blistering results. Blistering results that outstrip the Jaguar CPU's theoretical limits significantly.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,091
Kinect is the reason why Microsoft tied with Sony with consoles sold last gen. Microsoft saw it's best years with Kinect and that's why they pushed it so hard with the Xbox One. The problem is the Kinect audience is not the one to most likely buy a brand new console day one.
Yet, the PS3 had it's best years and was outselling the XBOX 360 during that time. It's all relative. XBOX 360 lost it's dominance and eventually it's lead during the Kinect period.
 

esseesse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
489
This thread is golden. Its an article, an opinion. You can agree with it or not but the way it triggers some people's blind cult is truly amazing. My take: don't ever take anything for granted. Great companies have fucked up before, Sony is not invincible. MS is on a good track. Interesting times ahead.
 

HellofaMouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,507
Only way sony loses momentum at this point is letting go of their 1st party efforts, or releasing a console like the ps3.

if ms gets its act together in terms of their 1st party output, it'll boost xbox sales but wont hurt sony's numbers.
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
Comparing the storm in a teacup around crossplay to the Xbox One launch fiasco is a huge reach but OK
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,387
Sony must be the luckiest company in the world. All these gens - the majority of which they've won - always handed to them by the competition and not because of anything they've done. Whew.

Yup. Not like they released the most powerful console at the cheaper price and have had the best selection of exclusives and pioneered picture/video sharing this generation and with their online system generally include two "free" games every month. And even if it were true then surely it's a reason not to choose their competitors if they keep shooting themselves in the foot!

Yes they didn't do themselves any favours with regards cross play but at least they've been open and said they're working on it going forward even though as the clear leader it benefits their competitors more than them.
 

Hermii

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,752
The only way I can see Sony properly dropping the ball and losing significant ground is not having BC, which is very unlikely. Otherwise they've built up a pretty incredible roster of IP's this gen which I don't see Microsoft overcoming. Spider-Man 2 and God of War 2 are gonna push units like crazy.
I do think BC will be significantly easier to implement for MS than Sony. Xbox one is made for directx 12 from the ground up, guess what dx12 is still around. Its successor will be too. PS4 is using a custom Sony API, Vulcan wasn't around when PS4 was developed. This is also the reason the pro gpu is basically two ps4 gpus duck taped together, and the X is entirely new.
 

GamerForever

Member
Oct 27, 2017
391
Isnt Ps4 Sonys «lesson learnt» console? They fucked up bad with PS3 coming off the insanly popular PS2. I am confident that they know what the consumer want out of there console, a pure bread gaming console with amazing story driven games and with a wide and deep librabry. #PleaseDontFuckUpSony
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,615
It's frustrating that the PS4 does none of what my X does. I wanted to play through Metal Gear Solid recently; I can't. PS4 doesn't have any form of backwards compatibility, so I had to buy a PS3. PS4 doesn't have crossplay, so when I want to play anything socially have to play those games with notably worse performance because my friend groups are primarily on PS4. PS Now isn't heavily laden with recent exclusives like Gamepass, so I can't easily catch up on the backlog of first party titles I missed.

The PS4 has an incredible library. It's also lacking features that I consider essential, so I didn't buy one until the lure of that backlog of amazing games, and multiplayer experiences I'd missed out on with my friends, became too much. So while The Last of Us is now my favorite game, and I had an incredible time with Spider-Man and I'm loving God of War, the system itself is really frustrating. I know these concerns don't apply to everyone, but yes, I bought it begrudgingly. I wish it was a better system and offered the features and services I expect a modern console to have.

Appreciate the response, thanks. I do think a lot of those issues perhaps disproportionately affect 'era posters' more than regular joes - eg being forced to play on the worse PS4 for MP suggests you have a 1X? I'd guess most households don't have that choice in the first place.

It does seem like a few relatively minor changes would improve your personal view of PlayStation - BC should definitely come for PS4 games and I have my fingers crossed for ps1/2. Can't see ps now having big first party games at launch, but maybe 6-12 months later? Would still build up into a solid catalog
 

GamerForever

Member
Oct 27, 2017
391
This thread is golden. Its an article, an opinion. You can agree with it or not but the way it triggers some people's blind cult is truly amazing. My take: don't ever take anything for granted. Great companies have fucked up before, Sony is not invincible. MS is on a good track. Interesting times ahead.

So if you dont agree with the opinion you are suddenly a cultist? I see this in almost every tread, people acting high and mighty but still offers their opinion as it matter more than others opinion. Just because other peoples opinions isnt within normal standard doesnt mean its not a valid point.
 

darkwing

Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,264
soraEYR.gif

damn
 

Steroyd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
691
This "Sony wins by default" line of thinking is just naive.

Most of the consumers don't have a brand loyalty. They just buy the best available product in the market according to their own opinion. The situation and competition resets in the beginning of every console generation.

You can't completely discount brand loyalty either, Sony launched PS3 with a more expensive console, terrible PR, and Xbox at the time had more exclusives like Mass Effect and Bioshock not to mention previous PlayStation exclusives from third party's like Final Fantasy and Devil May Cry were releasing on Xbox as well and yet the only market MS truly capitalised on outside of the US was the UK. Half the stuff I just mentioned was enough to completely bury Nintendo and Sega in the PS1 and PS2 days.

If Sony play their cards right with things like backwards compatibility the new console cycle won't be as hard a reset as it once was especially with services being a factor now.