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California sues Activision/Blizzard for employment discrimination because of sex, retaliation, discrimination & harassment, unequal pay
- Thread starter Seri
- Start date
- News Activision/Blizzard
While I am all for holding the very top accountable, when I read a tweet like that, I also hope we can hold the various lead artists, designers… etc who also allowed this to continue accountable. If the gaming industry is anything like the film VFX industry, there can be "old boys club" mentality in the rank and files as well. The entire company needs to be thoroughly investigated from top to bottom. I don't care if you're like a runner or whatever working in a junior role. If you exhibit such horrendous behaviour, you should be held accountable. These rank and files are people who move to different studios so these people must be clearly identified and held accountable.
I'm not sure why people are so shocked that Activision/Blizzard stuff isn't getting any action from the staff here. This forum's already said, with its members voices and not only its staff, time and time again that toys come before people. Stuff like the PS5 hype threads were and still do go on unabashedly beneath a stickied thread about how they're the product of slave labor and genocide. This is terrible, but it's clear that if the toy-maker is big enough and popular enough then people will go on about their business even in places that are supposed to do better, like here.
It would be great if I was proven wrong, though.
It would be great if I was proven wrong, though.
Every company has a confirmed rape room anyways /s
Really shitty stance
And the funny thing is one of the companies that was recommended (albeit with the clarification only their team) was Riot - that one that had it's own lawsuit from California over how it treats women and that has one of the guys in the Cosby suite photo currently as a high ranking employee. So even the ones recommended were iffy.
Thank you guys! It's been a rough week for many of us in the industry, and not just those that work at ATVI. This topic has opened up a lot of wounds for many of us, and have triggered some pretty visceral emotions and trauma regarding our various experiences in the industry. As someone who's worked in this industry for almost 2 decades now, it's painful to see how little has actually changed and improved for many, many people working in this industry. It's also incredibly frustrating when I see people that come forward with their stories and experiences being attacked by defenders of companies like ATVI or SE, or whomever, because they just happened to publish a game or two they enjoy.
The gaming industry isn't the only industry that treats women, people of color, the LGBTQ+ community, the disabled community, and other marginalized groups like this, to be sure, but that doesn't mean we should just shrug our shoulders and "well, that's just the way it is," the situation. People's lives have been significantly hurt and altered by their experiences, and I feel that a little bit of empathy and compassion would be greatly appreciated by the victims of this type of abuse.
I'm actually reminded of whenever I'd join a new company back when I was a QA contractor, and the QA team would "joke" among themselves about their experiences at the various companies they worked for, and how traumatized they were by those experiences. We weren't really joking, but laughing about it was how we coped and bonded with each other. No surprise many of us experienced similar treatment at Activision, but the stories were similar from my peers that worked at many other of the big publishers, from EA, to Konami, to Square-Enix. No company/studio is immune from this shit, truth told.
I think you're missing his point there. The point isn't "hold the very top accountable" at all. The point there is exactly the point you just made - that if there is a cultural problem in the company, everyone has to be made accountable for that culture to change. And who is responsibility for such accountability in a company? The people at the top he listed. Those aren't just people who are at the top, they are specifically the people responsible for handling the accountability you speak of. If they are not individuals who can be trusted to exercise that accountability to make employees feel safe, the company is doomed. you can make an example out of 1000 current staff from the rank and file today, fire them all, and if the top management that ultimately handles complaints, employee relations, and all that, remain as it is, the problem will just happen again. The boys club will continue even after a chunk of the old boys were sacrificed to purify the name of the company.
A potential discussion ban should be influenced by the group of people in this community who are primarily affected by the issue at hand.
I don't know that there is some manner of consensus or notable push for it. But it's a discussion worth having.
Whatever positive impact a deplatforming would have on awareness of these issues and the marketing of these companies, seems like it would be insignificant since ResetEra really doesn't hold that much influence outside of itself. So I don't think that should be the main motivation for banning discussion. It's more pertinent to make these decisions based on what makes the community feel more welcoming and supportive of the group in question.
I think "the whole industry is rotten" is a fair and true point (the gist of it) that the mod team has made, but that "it'd be inconsistent to single out just Activision Blizzard/company that gets particularly bad", is a copout.
The idea of "no ethical consumption" is a real thing, but the saying is literally false, and people often misinterpret the idea.
It means that it is impossible to always consume ethically. Not that it is never possible to do so.
It essentially means that we are all hypocrites. Which, when that is an unavoidable fact that you have no influence over, it should cease being a significant factor in your decision making process.
And so what's ethical and realistic, is "some ethical consumption."
It's ok to only boycott some, especially the worst, offenders.
Doing something is always more than doing nothing.
Regardless of your stance on that matter, surely the companies we know to be fucked up, deserve to be called out in some capacity.
If they're not gonna be banned, then at least thread disclaimers detailing the issue and linking to appropriate charities. Or something.
I don't know that there is some manner of consensus or notable push for it. But it's a discussion worth having.
Whatever positive impact a deplatforming would have on awareness of these issues and the marketing of these companies, seems like it would be insignificant since ResetEra really doesn't hold that much influence outside of itself. So I don't think that should be the main motivation for banning discussion. It's more pertinent to make these decisions based on what makes the community feel more welcoming and supportive of the group in question.
I think "the whole industry is rotten" is a fair and true point (the gist of it) that the mod team has made, but that "it'd be inconsistent to single out just Activision Blizzard/company that gets particularly bad", is a copout.
The idea of "no ethical consumption" is a real thing, but the saying is literally false, and people often misinterpret the idea.
It means that it is impossible to always consume ethically. Not that it is never possible to do so.
It essentially means that we are all hypocrites. Which, when that is an unavoidable fact that you have no influence over, it should cease being a significant factor in your decision making process.
And so what's ethical and realistic, is "some ethical consumption."
It's ok to only boycott some, especially the worst, offenders.
Doing something is always more than doing nothing.
Regardless of your stance on that matter, surely the companies we know to be fucked up, deserve to be called out in some capacity.
If they're not gonna be banned, then at least thread disclaimers detailing the issue and linking to appropriate charities. Or something.
...that comic is criticizing the point you're trying to make."There's no ethical consumption in capitalism". Games, like all products, are inherently compromised due to the conditions they're made in. You're not required to abstain from something on the grounds that it compromised, otherwise you'd abstain from basically everything. In other words:
I hope you don't like using a computer or wearing clothes, cause I got some bad new for you.
A bit late but wanted to thank you for your effort of putting it together. Tausend Dank!
...that comic is criticizing the point you're trying to make.
Funny how the conclusion those guys always come to is to just say fuck it and unbridledly consume. The point of the "there is no ethical consumption..." phrase is not to absolve everybody, it is a call for direct action. It is true that every product made under capitalism is compromised, the point is that making decisions on where to apply your consumerism is not enough, it's about the need to go further.
For some reason a lot of folks like to omit that part of it. Weird.
its also being a realist... you can think the best about ppl all you want but anywhere where humans beings are working together this happens... its just how we are ...and sexual assault and harassment happens probably 100x more than its ever brought to light...
continuing Gaming side at all is a bad idea.
I am literally saying we are not hypocrites for engaging in gaming despite the conditions they are made in because a) we just don't have perfect knowledge and b) all entertainment is compromised. We can and should make judgements about the things we support, but should do that with the knowledge that we will inevitably support something that later turns out to be the product of abuse or exploitation. I've made that exact argument over a number of posts at this point, and this is starting to feel like a bad faith read of my argument....that comic is criticizing the point you're trying to make.
If we should be realist then no doubt if a regular user posted that shit they would have been banned or perma on the spot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯its also being a realist... you can think the best about ppl all you want but anywhere where humans beings are working together this happens... its just how we are ...and sexual assault and harassment happens probably 100x more than its ever brought to light...
continuing Gaming side at all is a bad idea.
probably should go to a fourm not about video games then...
Bdubs is right. The issue is everywhere in the industry, and I don't see the point in banning one company when we know the same thing is going on in others. How many female devs have to say it's bad everywhere for people to realise just how very bad the problem is?
Maybe just the companies being sued by a government entity, though? Or is that bar still too low (I honestly have no idea how many have pending lawsuits)
Knew Kojima is a creep, but didn't expect that from Yoshi-P. Although not surprising, it is still disappointing.
Agree that topics from ActiBlizz, Ubisoft, Riot and any other of these dev/pub who have a history of discrimination shouldn't be banned, but there should be a pinned message in all of their threads so people don't forget what they have done.
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The hexatomic tweet mentions a Michael-Christopher "Koji" Fox, I don't think that's Kojima.
My bad. Just learned that person exists. From FFXIV only know Yoshi-P and Soken.
I re-read your post and I see the point you're making and actually agree with you. The use of the comic is what threw me off from the intent of your post and I apologize if I seemed aggressive.
I'm not sure what the correct course is for ResetEra. To abstain the other publishers doesn't seem correct (such as Ubisoft, Insomniac, Naughty Dog)... Yet, with how Activision-Blizzard's PR has handled the matter in such an aggressive and antagonistic manner with the mountain of evidence against them, it feels wrong to not take any action. To be indifferent sets an example that other publishers should handle it in the same fashion.
Okay but that doesn't actually mean that Blizzard-Activision is worse than the other companies, it just means they (California) have enough solid evidence and that the company has enough assets that it's worth them spending resources to go after. I'm for linking what we know to every Blizzard-Acti thread but I still feel banning them when we know the same thing is happening everywhere else in the games industry just seems to me like it's to make people feel better like they've achieved something when they really haven't at all and let's people act like the problem was only that company. I've already seen enough people encourage people to move from WoW to final fantasy MMO for this even though we know abuse and sexism happens there too.
Then why did we banned threads for cdpr ? Imo they should have the same fate as cdpr shits
and as far as I know cdpr didn't had a rape room nor drove someone to suicide but even so they are all shits
I'm not familiar with FFXIV's staff, but I should probably quote Koji-Fox's developer blog referenced:
I'm not reading the article, but GamesBeat is specifically a business/trade publication made for other people in the business. Corporate viewpoint ≠ corporate worship.
I think adding a post about abuse atc to all knowen abussive companies should be the minimum. This would help spread awareness, for example I missed the Insomniac allegations last year.
Banning "hype" threads for a company like Acti/Blizzard who seems to be one of the biggest offenders we know of, is something I would support.
Banning "hype" threads for a company like Acti/Blizzard who seems to be one of the biggest offenders we know of, is something I would support.
As far as I know, what it is banned are topics of Cyberpunk 2077. All discussion must be done in the OT. CDPR Witcher or GOG aren't banned topics.
Anyways, back to ActiBlizz, what must be done is to keep people talking about what these shitty companies have done so perhaps something can be done to improve. Banning them doesn't help anyone. Even worse, people will forget sooner or later; it already happened in that Insomniac thread that was created last year.
At most, ban the hype threads.
Thank you, and yea I think we can all agree that at least something has to be done w.r.t discussion of ActiBlizz games here, cause if nothing is done then every time something like this happens we'll inevitably start to compare it's relative damage to Activision, and that's a shitty way to frame allegations of mysoginy and sexual harassment.
Afaik we didn't ban insomiac threads so you can't use that as an excuse why people "forgot"
tho I can use the cyberpunk threads as that got banned and alot of people in this site didn't forget what they are doing as threads anout the, are getting locked as soon as possible so idk
Depends. Fighting the government in a civil lawsuit isn't much different than any other civil lawsuit. The real issue is what the gov wants out of this. If someone political wants a public win then money isn't going to be the prime motivator in settlement. For years the NY Attorney General was making headlines and a career for high profile cases until he crashed and burned himself. Most of these cases end up with big fines and agreed upon changes. Things at the company will most likely be better going forward, but that's not going to help the past victims.
This is quite easy.
This thread where it is exposed how Insomniac treat women was created in June 23, 2020
After that, using ERA search function, there are two pages where people made threads about Insomniac. 20 news threads of Imsoniac. Only one is about Insomniac misogyny and the latest one about how they wanted to sexualize a female character. Almost everyone forgot (myself included) about the accusations until someone bumped the first thread about how Insomniac treat women.
Again, I don't have an issue with people discussing Insomniac games. But if the staff had added that pinned message in all threads about Insomniac games where it is stated what they have done, then people would still talk about the terrible culture inside the company, or, at the very least, don't act surprised when new accusations come out a year later.
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Basically. Regardless of intent, this forum is saying that the consumption of entertainment is more important than the people making them. And we know that, while intent matters, it doesn't stop people from being hurt.
I am planning on contacting the general manager with a proposal.
Before doing it though I will post it here so that other members can tell me if it can be improved.
It consists of the following:
If the mod team doesn´t want to ban threads then lets get to a compromise which would be:
1) Let a member that Resetera´s mod team will choose, create an OT thread with a compendium with links to the sources of ALL this horrible videogame practices of any videogame company that we know of.
2) Pin that thread to make it more visible.
3) Make it obligatory for any thread of a videogame company with known horrible practices have a mod pinned message with links to the sources, to at least raise awareness of the issues.
With this Resetera at least would raise awareness of this issues.
Before doing it though I will post it here so that other members can tell me if it can be improved.
It consists of the following:
If the mod team doesn´t want to ban threads then lets get to a compromise which would be:
1) Let a member that Resetera´s mod team will choose, create an OT thread with a compendium with links to the sources of ALL this horrible videogame practices of any videogame company that we know of.
2) Pin that thread to make it more visible.
3) Make it obligatory for any thread of a videogame company with known horrible practices have a mod pinned message with links to the sources, to at least raise awareness of the issues.
With this Resetera at least would raise awareness of this issues.
Former Blizzard dev Brian Schwab at GDC 2015 laughing about a story where a coworker on a 2001 game named every environmental object something incredibly racist, and this was only a problem because they were releasing a level editor so the public would be able to see it:
https://youtu.be/__5whYgSTV0?t=444 (starts @ 7:19)
His response includes:
https://youtu.be/__5whYgSTV0?t=444 (starts @ 7:19)
His response includes:
- "that was where he got rid of his anger I guess" (laughs)
- "we put him in a corner and said, 'get to work, guy'" (laughs)
Has ActiBlizz said anything further in the past week? Just seems like they're not open to discussing the issue, so it would only be fair for ResetEra to shutter all discussion on ActiBlizz games. I mean there's not much a forum can really do, but stickying this thread and putting a disclaimer at the top of every relevant thread should be the bare minimum. I'm disappointed in the admin team right now.
Also it's pretty damning that ActiBlizz hasn't even done the usual damage control lip service, "just a few bad apples", "we take this very seriously", "we're going to do better", blah blah blah. Ubisoft and Riot responded better than this.
Also it's pretty damning that ActiBlizz hasn't even done the usual damage control lip service, "just a few bad apples", "we take this very seriously", "we're going to do better", blah blah blah. Ubisoft and Riot responded better than this.
Not sure if Blizzard is actively looking for bad publicity or something, but this post on the official wow forum has been up for 2 days now:
eu.forums.blizzard.com
Cease and Desist the LGBT disgusting agenda in this game
Blizz’s post “A Message from the World of Warcraft Team” about “brave” (translation: you pity them) “women” (translation: male freaks) who “came out” (translation: they are ruining the workplace and you don’t have the leverage to fire them because of blackmail of scandals so you had to do their...
eu.forums.blizzard.com
Not sure if Blizzard is actively looking for bad publicity or something, but this post on the official wow forum has been up for 2 days now:
Cease and Desist the LGBT disgusting agenda in this game
Blizz’s post “A Message from the World of Warcraft Team” about “brave” (translation: you pity them) “women” (translation: male freaks) who “came out” (translation: they are ruining the workplace and you don’t have the leverage to fire them because of blackmail of scandals so you had to do their...
As sad as it is to say, stuff like this is pretty normal for the WoW forums; little communication/moderation from the devs and some posters who believe the downfall of the game is the result of Blizzard being "woke" and "inclusive."
I've been monitoring the WoW forums since this news broke, the people who post there (outside of a few good folks who support the victims) are posting some vile shit that makes it look like they are trying to audition for the Cosby Suite.Not sure if Blizzard is actively looking for bad publicity or something, but this post on the official wow forum has been up for 2 days now:
Cease and Desist the LGBT disgusting agenda in this game
Blizz’s post “A Message from the World of Warcraft Team” about “brave” (translation: you pity them) “women” (translation: male freaks) who “came out” (translation: they are ruining the workplace and you don’t have the leverage to fire them because of blackmail of scandals so you had to do their...
the whole community there can go down with them.
You will find similar sentiments, somehow, on the official Overwatch forums as well, to say nothing of phrenology levels of racism. And if your posts responding to the nonsense are deemed too insensitive, "both sides" get banned.
Company is a joke from top to bottom.
Company is a joke from top to bottom.
been saying this, but exploiting this situation as a way to get more people to play ff14 and branding it as a "more ethical" game is downright stupid.
2 married Night Fae from the story questline. Apparently it triggered some people.
Woke capitalism was the culture internally for a very long time, as most of the people working in rank and file positions at the publisher's office were left leaning and diversity was regularly celebrated with warm word and the occasional pride party (that contractors weren't even supposed to attend). Yet the moment their ass is exposed, the company shows its true face and lashes out at its workers and victims, tells everyone not to talk about it internally, and goes full union buster.
Fucking burn it to the ground. That place drove me fucking therapy and I hope it never recovers. The amount of unethical shit happening under that roof is disgusting, including leadership openly discussing layoffs in front of the vulnerable parties and being generally callous towards hourly workers.
edit: I'm not done yet. The fucking Hong Kong shit that happened a few years ago was also disgusting, and we were banned from speaking internally about it after we voiced our disgust at the company's handling of the situation. Narrative moments were scrapped or rewritten to make sure we didn't anger any reactionary players or hostile governments at the demand from C-class.
Or the hiring of 'VIP management' within the company to make sure Saudi Princes continued to bankroll microtransactions in COD and kowtowing to their every whim.
Fucking burn it to the ground. That place drove me fucking therapy and I hope it never recovers. The amount of unethical shit happening under that roof is disgusting, including leadership openly discussing layoffs in front of the vulnerable parties and being generally callous towards hourly workers.
edit: I'm not done yet. The fucking Hong Kong shit that happened a few years ago was also disgusting, and we were banned from speaking internally about it after we voiced our disgust at the company's handling of the situation. Narrative moments were scrapped or rewritten to make sure we didn't anger any reactionary players or hostile governments at the demand from C-class.
Or the hiring of 'VIP management' within the company to make sure Saudi Princes continued to bankroll microtransactions in COD and kowtowing to their every whim.
The third point should function like the Cyberpunk thread. The first post on every page talks about the issues.
This seems sound. I would maybe request that "hype threads" related to the company be suspended for the foreseeable future. Best of luck, and thank you.
I'm sorry to hear this. It's possible I missed it earlier in this thread, but for how long did you work at/with the company?
So I read that and he mentioned switching covenants and restarting quests and at first I thought there was a gameplay reason for that having something to do with the decision to make characters gay or something...
But no, now I realize he did that because gay characters offended him that much he tossed away what I assume was hours of grinding and quest progression.
I worked there a few years ago edit: and I was there for a few years. I'd rather not go into extreme detail, obviously, and a lot of my feelings were described transparently in the exit interview.
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