Should be :
Liberals: Free market will save us***!
*** Except when it's a failed pipeline we must bail out
*** Except when it's a too big to fail company being dragged in court for international crimes
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Canada PoliERA |OT| Two Years of Sunny Days? That’s Scheer Madness!
- Thread starter Caz
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Should be :
Liberals: Free market will save us***!
*** Except when it's a failed pipeline we must bail out
*** Except when it's a too big to fail company being dragged in court for international crimes
In other news. it looks like Federal Scientists won language in their Collective Agreements that give them the right to speak to the media.
New tentative contract for Canada's scientists would enshrine right to speak to media
New tentative contract for Canada's scientists would enshrine right to speak to media
I don't feel like going into the whole spiel about how it's Liberals or Conservatives this fall. Look at the OT banner image anytime you forget.
If the first reaction to someone calling out the Conservatives is to jump in with "THE LIBERALS ARE BAD TOO!" then I'm extremely uninterested in anything they have to offer. Let's get through this fucking election first, which is possibly the most consequential one any of us will see in our lifetimes.
Hey I'll be voting for whoever has the best chance to beat the cons in my riding.
Don't think saying to not expect real change from the 'status quo party/ideology' is that controversial though *shrug*
You kinda sound like the 2016 dems a bit btw. Hopefully we don't fail as bad this fall.
Don't think saying to not expect real change from the 'status quo party/ideology' is that controversial though *shrug*
You kinda sound like the 2016 dems a bit btw. Hopefully we don't fail as bad this fall.
It wasn't the Dems that failed in 2016, it was apathetic voters who couldn't peel themselves away from their bitterness, pride, and outright stupidity, to do what needed to be done to prevent an abhorrent orange shitgoblin from defecting all over the US and putting the lives of millions of people at risk.
Don't want to be like the USA? Again I'll state, look at the banner at the top of this topic. Print it out. Use it as wallpaper. Make bedsheets from it. Sear it onto your heart.
Being extorted for a vote isn't exactly an inspiring message either.
But also, I'm just literally one vote and people seem fine bouncing between the two centrist parties when they get tired of the other one, so it's not even me you'd need to convince.
I don't vote for either the Conservatives or the Liberals. /shrug
The Conservative Party's environmental plan isn't going to ensure we'll meet our Paris targets or avoid a 2 degree temperature rise, but the Liberal Plan that apparently will not raise the carbon tax further and induces an expansion of oil sands production is deeply unlikely to meet those targets either. [1]
Assuming the Liberal Party does hold off carbon tax raises and is not capable of meeting their Paris targets, why should an environmentalist voter vote for either party? The Liberal platform may be 'better' but if it is not capable of making Paris targets and avoiding a 2 degree temperature rise it doesn't matter.
There's no middle ground when it comes to avoiding catastrophic climate change. You either do what is required to fix the problem or you don't.
[1] Being totally fair the Liberal environmental platform isn't fully out yet so we're speculating based on some recent minister quotes. It's possible they will announce other measures that will get them to the Paris targets.
Assuming the Liberal Party does hold off carbon tax raises and is not capable of meeting their Paris targets, why should an environmentalist voter vote for either party? The Liberal platform may be 'better' but if it is not capable of making Paris targets and avoiding a 2 degree temperature rise it doesn't matter.
There's no middle ground when it comes to avoiding catastrophic climate change. You either do what is required to fix the problem or you don't.
[1] Being totally fair the Liberal environmental platform isn't fully out yet so we're speculating based on some recent minister quotes. It's possible they will announce other measures that will get them to the Paris targets.
Because it's rather the Liberals or the Conservatives who will form government this fall. Literally no other party will, barring any outlandish sequence of events.
There is no third choice.
For the scenario I was painting though, for the environmentalist voter, it doesn't matter if the Conservatives win since neither the Liberals or Conservatives are proposing meeting Paris targets. There's no point in voting for the 'best anyone but conservative' option if on environmental policy the end result is the same.
(PBO says Canada needs higher carbon prices to hit emissions targets)
(PBO says Canada needs higher carbon prices to hit emissions targets)
Any Environmentalists who think that aren't particularly intelligent.
Which of the two parties would be more amenable to taking stronger action when faced with the reality of our climate and shifting public opinion? That doesn't excuse any actions that aren't up to the challenge, but to say that there would be no difference in how the two parties handle this issue going forward is ludicrous.
There's clearly a difference between the Conservatives and Liberals on the environment, but at the end of the day the core question is whether their actions are enough to prevent a significant global temperature rise or not.
'Better policy' honestly doesn't matter if regardless temperatures still rise and we have to deal with the resulting sea level rises, flora and fauna extinction events and other issues.
'Better policy' honestly doesn't matter if regardless temperatures still rise and we have to deal with the resulting sea level rises, flora and fauna extinction events and other issues.
It does though. Canada alone isn't enough to stop anything, and it's pretty unlikely that the world as a whole will collectively come together in the short time we have left to prevent further major shifts to our environment before more cataclysmic events happen. Most of the world won't really make the changes necessary until we are faced with an unimaginable crisis. It sounds dire because it is dire. Humanity has majorly fucked up and we will all pay the consequences.
The point is, when these horrific changes in our climate continue to worsen, which they will, which party is going to be better suited to fight it? We get two choices in Canada this election, Liberals or Conservatives. One of those two parties will control government over these next crucial years. I know who, between these two, that I want at the helm dealing with the enormous hardships that are on the way.
Supporting a Liberal government this fall doesn't mean you support everything they stand for, or that you necessarily will even be voting for them. It's understanding that we all have to vote for whichever party in each individual riding has the best chance to defeat the Cons, and that when all is said and done, they won't have the reins of government, but the Liberals will. Then we can work on getting a better electoral system in place that better represents our country, and have leaders across the three left leaning parties that will realize that they need to stop fucking around and make sure that Conservative ideology never again has control of Canada.
I reject the false premise of a two party system choice between two parties that are opting to miss Paris targets.
Keep in mind around this time in 2015 the Liberals had fewer seats than the NDP do now. It is well possible for third parties to make gains.
Environmentalists should vote for parties that are planning on meeting the Paris targets, that is the NDP or Green Party [1].
Voting for parties that will not meet Paris targets is accepting that we cannot halt catastrophic climate change, and we're accepting all the terrible things that come along with that. It's a vote for damage control and mitigation.
Voting for parties that will attempt to meet Paris targets is a vote for hope. It's a vote for genuinely trying to prevent the crisis and save the planet.
So long as there's a chance of avoiding that 2 degree rise that so many scientists think will be utterly catastrophic I will support parties that are trying to meet the targets that avert disaster. If a party isn't listening to scientists and working to the goal that has been set and agreed upon by the international community they're not worth voting for.
At this juncture, with the incredible consequences of climate change looming, I don't really give a shit about whether a conservative ideology controls the Canadian government. I care about whether salmon are going to go extinct or not.
[1] Or the Liberals if they announce carbon tax increases such that they are on track to meet Paris targets.
Keep in mind around this time in 2015 the Liberals had fewer seats than the NDP do now. It is well possible for third parties to make gains.
Environmentalists should vote for parties that are planning on meeting the Paris targets, that is the NDP or Green Party [1].
Voting for parties that will not meet Paris targets is accepting that we cannot halt catastrophic climate change, and we're accepting all the terrible things that come along with that. It's a vote for damage control and mitigation.
Voting for parties that will attempt to meet Paris targets is a vote for hope. It's a vote for genuinely trying to prevent the crisis and save the planet.
So long as there's a chance of avoiding that 2 degree rise that so many scientists think will be utterly catastrophic I will support parties that are trying to meet the targets that avert disaster. If a party isn't listening to scientists and working to the goal that has been set and agreed upon by the international community they're not worth voting for.
At this juncture, with the incredible consequences of climate change looming, I don't really give a shit about whether a conservative ideology controls the Canadian government. I care about whether salmon are going to go extinct or not.
[1] Or the Liberals if they announce carbon tax increases such that they are on track to meet Paris targets.
Dude. You've seen the current NDP. They're not forming a government. The greens might make some gains but they're not forming one either. You vote to keep the CLEARLY worse party out, strategically. Otherwise your vote essentially goes to them. Keep in mind they'd be worse for the country and the environment. The platform and the complete removal of the carbon tax (which is a fucking necessity at this point) are clearly written. Idealism is nice but realism is better.
This is an unrealistic and untenable position to take. You'll gain nothing from it, and neither will our planet. You might as well write Harambe on your ballot.
They do say we're a few years behind the US, so.... I see it.
That'll be (a little) interesting. Is the populace aware of the beef between Renata and the Fords or are they stupid enough to see Ford and assume it's comfortable?
I really want them to split the Conservative vote but in reality they will get 1% and fade into obscurity.
God, the Ford's won't be happy until we have them on our money will they?
I assume this is what Ontario Liberal voters must have done, since ABC strategic voting for the NDP (shockingly!) didn't appear and now as a result that province has to deal with a shit head moron premier for four years.
Remember folks, strategic voting flows are only allowed to go one way, to the Liberal Party.
Due of the fact that Trudeau lied and reneged on his promise to change the system, once again Canadians will have to try to guess and 'strategically' vote for the best ABC option. It absolutely makes sense to do this if you live in a riding where polling and historical returns suggests it's a good idea.
However, it's midsummer, well before an election has been called, and people are more thinking about going to the park and having a beer instead of politics. It doesn't make any sense to lock into this sort of two party inevitability thinking so early.
IMO, with consideration to the limited time we have to act on climate change, it's unethical to support via money or volunteer time any party that is not proposing to meet Paris targets.
Preach.
This is basically where I'm at. Aside from social issues and weed, I've been incredibly disappointed in Trudeau's Liberals. The only way they can possibly get my vote is if they hit those Paris targets and even then, I'm not sure, as they have shown me that I can't trust them.
Electoral reform and climate concerns are strong Green positions. It's a great place to cast a vote. That said the Liberals have advanced a well considered and debated environmental plan with legislation that works in balance with other concerns of the federation. It might not be as strong as environmental activists want but it's quite a bit stronger than those working against environmental policies want. The Liberal legislation strikes a good balance and keeps the country moving towards Green targets. Bill C69 and the tanker ban are going to put brakes on a lot of future development while projects in progress will help fund the transition to a greener economy and give time for people and the nation to adjust without creating excessive hardship. If the Liberals can get another mandate things will keep progressing well and steadily, and not just environmentally. Perhaps, more provincial political action would be beneficial for the climate cause instead of putting it all on the federal government. It would definitely make the federal job easier.
Anyhow, more to the election:
If there is a big change in voter activity this election and a majority of swing voters start to bounce between the Liberals and the Greens in this and upcoming elections, making the NDP and Conservatives become marginalized entities, that would really benefit the environmental cause and, in general, Canada.
My riding is polling Conservative too. It was close last election with the Liberals but that was when Liberal fervour was high.
The pipeline announcement and a couple other things might push things in the Liberal's favour again.
I was going to vote Green, but the Liberal candidate looks pretty good and the Green candidate still has yet to be announced.
Both the NDP and Green were distant in my riding. The Greens really far back in 2015. However, the current voter shift away from the federal NDP and the strength of the PPC here should help the Green and Liberals and work against the weak Conservative incumbent. The riding probably won't change parties but it's looking like a there's a chance.
The pipeline announcement and a couple other things might push things in the Liberal's favour again.
I was going to vote Green, but the Liberal candidate looks pretty good and the Green candidate still has yet to be announced.
Both the NDP and Green were distant in my riding. The Greens really far back in 2015. However, the current voter shift away from the federal NDP and the strength of the PPC here should help the Green and Liberals and work against the weak Conservative incumbent. The riding probably won't change parties but it's looking like a there's a chance.
I hope the knives come out and the backstabbing begins.
Apparently it was "planned" lol.
Starting to resemble the Trump WH.
No one could have predicted that Ford's ministry would be mired in corruption and incompetence.
People did strategically vote in the Ontario election. The Ontario Liberals got 19.7% of the vote in 2018, about the same as the 19.8% the federal NDP got in 2015. Why is the latter strategic voting yet the former is not?
The Liberal carbon tax is easily the best devised in the world. The main reason they aren't raising it to $100 because it would be electoral poison.
There needs to be some kind of free speech charter for scientists in general. Harper's muzzling of scientists was one of the most dangerous things he did.
The revolving door doesn't end here.
So can I ask what was the point of this cabinet shuffle? As I understand it from whispering within Queen's Park, this government is very top-down and the worst decisions are coming right from the Premier himself, with numerous conflicts between the Ford and his own cabinet and senior MPPs. Is it just like optics? The appearance of "change", and to blame them for all the problems to save face?
And if that is the case, can people really be this stupid? Because even with our friends down south no one ever looked at Trump and thought "Bannon's out, here comes that pivot!".
EDIT: I will say its somewhat cathartic seeing MaLeod take this L tho, damn.
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I wonder if this Ford stuff will be the thing that finally makes Andrew Scheer stop smiling.
Just wait till the debates when everyone will see what a wet tissue Scheer is and some of the more capital "C" Conservatives will switch to Bernier, at this rate Trudeau may be looking to get that majority again.
But hey I surely aint gonna be mad if its an LPC minority propped up by the NDP.
I just hope that's the case. I don't want seeing NDP forming a coalition with CPC again.
Knowing Ontario, it'll be the longest, most uncomfortable death this country has ever seen. It'll be like watching a car crash in slow motion.
da fuck?
The only 'coalition' any party ever had with the Conservatives was the Liberals under Ignatieff propping up the Conservative minority after Liberal back room boys freaked out about Dion taking down the government and making a coalition with the NDP.
Oh, if only we were that lucky to not have to see that smug grin.
😔 I always feel awful for the people I know in Ontario (plus all the people in here that live in Ontario).
Agreed, if (when? 🙏) CPC loses this fall, I can't wait to see less of that asshole's face.
We died so the rest of Canada may live.
I wish Kenney would undermine Scheer even a little bit in AB but that's probably too much to ask for.
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