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cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
Hi, RttP Christian here. I went to Youth Group all through High School and even got hired on for the Summer Intern position a year after I graduated. (Needed to wait a year, it was the rule so that there was some distance in age.)

I met my girlfriend at camp and everything. However, after my Youth Leader whom I was close with got sacked for political reasons I became disillusioned. I stay pretty plugged in, and most placed on the internet scue non-religious. I started to feel like it was all a sham but didn't have the confidence to reject it outright.

I'm not sure what happened... but about a month ago the thought of finality and death hit me. It seems ludicrous, it's not like I hadn't thought about it before, but now the idea feels less theoretical and more eventual.I'm so deeply uncomfortable about the idea of cessation of existence.

Living in Texas I am surrounded by Christians who seem to be so confident about their faith. I want that... I want to feel so confident that I will see my loved ones later... that when my time ends it won't just be endless nothingness. It keeps me up at night, so much so that I have to put on a podcast or something to fade to sleep with.

Has anyone in here ever reapproached religion? How do you come back after giving in to your doubts? I want to have the foundation to build upon...

Obviously I should start by attending an actual place of worship...
There's no easy answer to that question really. My best suggestion is just do what you feel comfortable with, you don't have to go all in at once. Lord knows there's elements of Christianity I don't agree with that I take with a grain of salt.

Don't take it so much as something you have to do to know what happens after death, use it more as a guideline on how to live your life and be a good person. That's what matters.
 

LuxCommander

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,051
Los Angeles, CA
Don't take it so much as something you have to do to know what happens after death, use it more as a guideline on how to live your life and be a good person. That's what matters.

That's a pretty good perspective on it. Jesus's teachings are focused on the here and now rather than the future, though they certainly prepare us for that. The whole life after death thing is a comforting side effect of the relational aspect of the faith.

Has anyone in here ever reapproached religion? How do you come back after giving in to your doubts? I want to have the foundation to build upon...
Regarding this, I actually had to come to grips with this for myself during college. Long story short, the church I grew up in crashed and burned due to a lack of accountability amongst the pastoral staff, and it strongly affected my family due to how involved my parents were. This is on top of dealing with my own personal insecurities from not getting as much attention during middle school where I was picked on pretty regularly by some of the "cool kids" in my class that got leadership opportunities while getting away with a lot of crap they shouldn't have. I never doubted the spiritual side of it, but it did make me lose a lot of confidence in the Church.

It took involvement in a healthy church and a year away from it for those wounds to heal. The big takeaway I got from it is that Christianity is not meant to be a set of religious rules and regulations (the only Religion espoused by Christ is to take care of the widows and orphans, which are those that are in need after all). It's instead a journey of self-discovery through relating with our creator. The church can and will fail us because it is a group of imperfect individuals. But it is a group of people trying to reach the same goal, which is to grow closer to Christ that we might become better people.

So yeah, I hear where you're coming from Trey. It's not a fun situation to be in, and it easily can turn a person cold and jaded (it totally did that to me for a while). The big thing to remember going back in is that it isn't supposed to be about another person. It's about your personal relationship with God.
 

Gooch

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
169
Baptist here.

As a Christian living here in the west, it sucks that Christianity is being based the way it is...Like compared to that other one, we're....No I won't go there.

Anyway, being Black, I hated being told by so-called "woke" Black folk that I was a fool for being a Christian. "It's a White man's religion" or "You're a bunch of Uncle Toms" or "You like being brainwashed by your white daddy." Like really?!

We're being brainwashed, while our community is falling apart due to other reasons...
 

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
Baptist here.

As a Christian living here in the west, it sucks that Christianity is being based the way it is...Like compared to that other one, we're....No I won't go there.

Anyway, being Black, I hated being told by so-called "woke" Black folk that I was a fool for being a Christian. "It's a White man's religion" or "You're a bunch of Uncle Toms" or "You like being brainwashed by your white daddy." Like really?!

We're being brainwashed, while our community is falling apart due to other reasons...
Not to judge, but these 'woke' people seem pretty ignorant.
 

LuxCommander

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,051
Los Angeles, CA
Welcome Gooch! Glad to have your perspective on here and I totally feel you when it comes to dealing with others with a similar background, there's a lot of animosity towards Christianity in my field. It gets old, but not much we can really do when people are locked into their mindsets. They don't get that it works for us, and frankly they don't have to.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,985
Ann Arbor, Mi
I am pleased to see that this thread exists. I was going to create an OT. Glad I didn't.

I have a much longer post but I want to address these first:

A burning question on my mind to everyone in this thread: What are your thoughts on mega-churches in North America? Would you consider their leaders to often be false prophets? Are they tarnishing the image of the Church? Should there be some widespread John 2:19 happening?

Personally, I'd check yes under all.

I have issues with not just mega-churches, but anything that renders Christianity as "for profit." A year ago, I put six months into a church that rolled out a "20 in 20" plan, which means they want to plant 20 new churches by 2020. I believe that we shouldn't put a limit on what God can do, but I also have a problem with rolling out an initiative that sounds like a business.

Sunday school is becoming glorified childcare, with more Nintendo consoles than Bibles. Like, the number of churches that don't have Bibles where you sit, and congregations are encouraged to use the apps on their phones--that alone tells me how serious that church is about upholding the Word.

Best of luck, you guys. Christianity at large really needs you at the moment.

It's an uphill battle against what I saw one Twitter user call "American Evangelism," which is its own "denomination" that is a derivative of Westboro. More on that later.

I kind of view most people in the Bible as super flawed individuals. I mean David essentially sent a man to his death in war so he could be with that man's wife. As mentioned though, he still tries to make things better and listens when God speaks to him.

Yeah, they're flawed, just like all of us. There is only one who lived without sin. I think a lot of people think that just because some of those folks are "God's chosen" in the form of prophets or disciples, they're somehow holier than us. On the contrary, "all have fallen short of the glory that is God."
 

Eternal Song

Member
Oct 31, 2017
741
I have issues with not just mega-churches, but anything that renders Christianity as "for profit." A year ago, I put six months into a church that rolled out a "20 in 20" plan, which means they want to plant 20 new churches by 2020. I believe that we shouldn't put a limit on what God can do, but I also have a problem with rolling out an initiative that sounds like a business.
This issue does seem to be increasing in the church today, likely on account of how many churches are kind of a part of their own organization. When you are part of a group like that, I think it may be easier to prioritize things like income and expansion.

This, also, is one of the issues that can possibly be found in a mega church. If they prioritize their numbers over the Word of God, there is, very much, a problem.
Sunday school is becoming glorified childcare, with more Nintendo consoles than Bibles. Like, the number of churches that don't have Bibles where you sit, and congregations are encouraged to use the apps on their phones--that alone tells me how serious that church is about upholding the Word.
I'm not sure allowing the use of a phone app for reading, as opposed to a hard copy, is an issue in and of itself. It seems more likely that this became as widespread as it did because people realize they have access to the Bible on their phones, and they opt to read from that instead of bringing their own own hard copy. This, of course, really only happens if a church is encouraging bringing your own Bible to begin with.

As for Children's Church and Sunday School, that is a sad state of affairs. Kids want to be entertained, sure, but that is not the point. While it is possible to make a lesson entertaining, there needs to be a lesson involved. If the kids are showing up because they get to play Mario Kart -or in some cases, Halo- there is an issue.

As an aside, I did consider the idea of the latest Smash Bros being a possibility for a fun extra thing they could do sometime, but I realized that's a terrible idea.
Yeah, they're flawed, just like all of us. There is only one who lived without sin. I think a lot of people think that just because some of those folks are "God's chosen" in the form of prophets or disciples, they're somehow holier than us. On the contrary, "all have fallen short of the glory that is God."
I think this may be a large part of the reason Paul emphasized just how much of a sinner he was (1 Timothy 1:12-16). He was still human, imperfect.
It's an uphill battle against what I saw one Twitter user call "American Evangelism," which is its own "denomination" that is a derivative of Westboro. More on that later.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you have to say.
 

LuxCommander

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,051
Los Angeles, CA
As for Children's Church and Sunday School, that is a sad state of affairs. Kids want to be entertained, sure, but that is not the point. While it is possible to make a lesson entertaining, there needs to be a lesson involved. If the kids are showing up because they get to play Mario Kart -or in some cases, Halo- there is an issue.

As an aside, I did consider the idea of the latest Smash Bros being a possibility for a fun extra thing they could do sometime, but I realized that's a terrible idea.

It's a bad idea on a Sunday, no doubt, but perhaps during a fellowship game night it works as a tool. I know that we would do that on a regular basis when I was in 5th/6th grade and middle school, and it helped create some solid friendships I still have to this day. Save Halo for the high school lan parties though.

I'm pretty out of the loop when it come story the current state of children's ministry though. Youth I'm a bit more informed on, but still haven't been involved in it for about four years now.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,315
Nashville
Hey y'all.
I'm Catholic
I have a lot of friends in my youth group who are gay and multi racial (showing how diversified the young Catholic gen is becoming which is awesome)and luckily the Catholic Church is starting to open up to it. anyway as a Catholic one thing I like about it is the emphasis on loving others and the environment.
Plus Pope Francis is the best
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,985
Ann Arbor, Mi
I'm looking forward to seeing what you have to say.

Here's a copypasta from what I wrote elsewhere:
Most churches function as a bounded-set. The church I go to is center-set. In a bounded set church, there are discrete boundaries which delineate who is in and who is out. For example, to participate in a Baptist church, you MUST be baptized, abstain from alcohol. If you're Lutheran, MUST perform confirmation. If you're Pentecostal, you MUST speak in tongues after baptism.


Failure to do these things means you are out. You are not true Baptist, Lutheran, or Pentecostal. "Bounded" by tradition. The problem my church has with this is that you could check off everything, such as baptism, tithe, attend church, and still, for example, hate people.


A centered-set church places Christ at the center, believing that he is alive, as well as the people who are following him. God (we could say the Spirit) moves. Therefore, we are also continuously moving away or closer to God. In this model, even those who do not claim to follow Christ can still be doing Christ-like things and closer to him than someone who claims to love God, but hates people (you could argue that salvation, then is in jeopardy for both parties: "I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father except through me" and "Forgive and you shall be forgiven"). This model is more inclusive.


Bounded-vs-Centered-Set_God-570x269.jpg



For example, in my class, there are two Catholics, two Southern Baptists, a Lutheran, a Methodist (IIRC), and there's me, who is either agnostic, Black Baptist, or non-denomonation depending on interpretation of my spiritual trajectory.


So I asked a question, referring indirectly to Unversalist Unitarians, as to how the church nagivate when someone makes arbitrary claims about God's direction in their lives. Like, whatever they feel God says, is okay for them. After all, in the centered-set model, I could be moving closer to God in the aspect of prayer and meditation, but moving away from him in terms of serving (whether or not this model "weighs" proximity to Christ in relationship with reading your Bible and praying as less critical than service when a hurricane wipes out Puerto Rico, is up for debate, or at least, remains unclear to me thus far).


The pastor said my question was legit: if someone says that Polyamory is their thing, and points to scripture where it happens, and says it might not necessarily be for you, there is a check for that:


quadrilateral-pyramid.png



Right off the bat, my church rejects things like "sola scriptura" or "by scripture alone." Scripture is certainly a critical component to the gospel, but some Christians, like Paul, might have been routed (or not at all) in cultural or religious tradition and yet encountered a Divine Experience before encountering any scripture whatsoever.


This "quadrangle" resonates with me profoundly. Like, I was shook all day. There is so much talk about faith in the Bible, and even wisdom, but the logistics of cognition would have to wait for post-Enlightenment theology. For my faith began with Reason--there must be an explanation for all the phenomena around the world. Where was matter before the Big Bang? What is the probability that humans would "evolve" from single-celled organisms to the magnificent biological machines that we are now? Therefore, God must exist.


And I went toward scripture, and now I'm going around seeking one of those Holy Ghost-like experiences.


I tend to stay away from tradition. Pastor mentioned that he is doing six rosarie prayers during this chapter of his prayer life as enrichment--after all, it is a 1000 year practice. I, on the other hand, feel that tradition does more harm than good to the modern church, but I am willing to entertain them.


My question forced a 30-minute digression out of a class session that is 90 minutes long. I was proud.


There's some other stuff I need to discuss, but I need my workbook.

I never did follow up with this because I shared it with the wrong audience.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,985
Ann Arbor, Mi
New congregant showed up, so the pastor paired the wife and I up with her. They had her profile all down and everything: single black mom with two kids.

We were in line to get food to celebrate the retirement of a pastor. I then said "Are you ready for this? To be the church's 'respectable black family'? Another black woman in front of us turned around and laughed. Wife was like "SEE I TOLD YOU PEOPLE BE HEARING YOU WHEN YOU SAY STUFF LIKE THAT!!!" I said, LOUDER this time, that if anyone within earshot wants to talk to have a conversation on respectability politics, the can come holler at me.

It's a funny story to me. Anyway, turns out new lady, her son, and babydaddy, are all gamers. She's a story-based Telltale games/Life is Strange player. Her man does RPGs. Her son is sports (meh). I play everything. Also, her son is 8 and I have two boys around that age. Needless to say, we hit it off, and she said she'll be back.

That was fun.
 

Gooch

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
169
I hope this isn't gonna be a repeat of the old one. Whereas one poster here only posts in this OT.

I'll add something soon...
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,985
Ann Arbor, Mi
I hope this isn't gonna be a repeat of the old one. Whereas one poster here only posts in this OT.

I'll add something soon...

Well, Game Analyst used it as his personal blog of a bunch of esoteric stuff. I mean, even if you were Christian, it would have been difficult to participate if you hadn't done the reading.


There was a thread in OT testing if an entire topic dedicated to Islam would gain traction. It was pretty popular.

Meanwhile, Christianity, or at least those who claim to be Christina in the mainstream...not doing us many favors.
 

Bo Neslek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,794
Canada's Ear
I hope this isn't gonna be a repeat of the old one. Whereas one poster here only posts in this OT.

I'll add something soon...

Using this as a personal blog is stupid. Especially when one guy's 'new, deep takes' on Christianity actually aren't deep, or new.

I think this should be a space for people to discuss their encounters with the faith, their experiences, their doubts and challenges, their successes. Not a spot for people to post their sermons.
 

Gooch

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
169
Amen...

Anyway, I just turned 26, and the one thing I'm always struggling with is about my virginity. My co-workers would give advice about what to do on my first time and such. To be honest, the conversation seems awkward to have and really annoying. They think I'm waiting for the right one, which is true. But part of me doesn't care that much either. Like I don't care that I would never get that opportunity. I don't know if I see marriage in my future either. I never dated or gotten a kiss. Maybe losing my v card isn't a big deal? My co-workers had said they wish they waited...
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,985
Ann Arbor, Mi
Amen...

Anyway, I just turned 26, and the one thing I'm always struggling with is about my virginity. My co-workers would give advice about what to do on my first time and such. To be honest, the conversation seems awkward to have and really annoying. They think I'm waiting for the right one, which is true. But part of me doesn't care that much either. Like I don't care that I would never get that opportunity. I don't know if I see marriage in my future either. I never dated or gotten a kiss. Maybe losing my v card isn't a big deal? My co-workers had said they wish they waited...

You say you're struggling with this yet your post strikes me as apathetic in terms of relationships. Like, I don't even think sex should be on the table until a kiss at the very least. Gotta crawl before you can sprint.

Have you considered the idea that you are more than merely celibate, but asexual?
 

Gooch

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
169
You say you're struggling with this yet your post strikes me as apathetic in terms of relationships. Like, I don't even think sex should be on the table until a kiss at the very least. Gotta crawl before you can sprint.

Have you considered the idea that you are more than merely celibate, but asexual?
I think I am...But I wanna know how those things feel before moving on. It's on the bucket list. But yeah, that has crossed my mind. I mean I still feel sexual attraction towards certain women however...
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,985
Ann Arbor, Mi
I think I am...But I wanna know how those things feel before moving on. It's on the bucket list. But yeah, that has crossed my mind. I mean I still feel sexual attraction towards certain women however...

If you're actually attracted to the opposite sex then you can mark asexuality off the list.

Probably just have not met the right one yet. I see this problem often among Christians in particular who live in small towns and go to small churches. Never go to college. Essentially, their Social Circle is extremely limited.

I'm not trying to fix your problems or anything. Just curious if any of this applies to you?
 

LuxCommander

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,051
Los Angeles, CA
Gooch, if it's any consolation, I didn't meet anyone for years and finally found my girlfriend when I wasn't even remotely looking and started to believe that a relationship and marriage wasn't remotely in the cards. We've now been together for nearly 3 years and are moving very close to that engagement phase (looking to get that moving sometime next year around that 3 year mark). God moves in mysterious ways, and there's nothing wrong at all with hanging on to the V card until you really know. Will be keeping you in my prayers and that you can find some peace in this situation as you figure out what the Lord has in store for you. I think you'll be surprised at what he has in mind for you.
 

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
Amen...

Anyway, I just turned 26, and the one thing I'm always struggling with is about my virginity. My co-workers would give advice about what to do on my first time and such. To be honest, the conversation seems awkward to have and really annoying. They think I'm waiting for the right one, which is true. But part of me doesn't care that much either. Like I don't care that I would never get that opportunity. I don't know if I see marriage in my future either. I never dated or gotten a kiss. Maybe losing my v card isn't a big deal? My co-workers had said they wish they waited...

I was like that. Until 34 if you can believe it. (And she later dumped me.)

So just live your life and let it happen, don't lose sleep stressing over when, how, or who.
 

Auros01

Avenger
Nov 17, 2017
5,522
Didn't know those OT existed on Era. I'm glad I found it this morning! A little background - I grew up Christian and currently attend a somewhat large multi-site non-denominational church.

Yeah, they're flawed, just like all of us. There is only one who lived without sin. I think a lot of people think that just because some of those folks are "God's chosen" in the form of prophets or disciples, they're somehow holier than us. On the contrary, "all have fallen short of the glory that is God."

This is such an interesting and important point that many people either miss entirely or don't fully understand the weight of. We fail to translate this concept to modern day. We give so much adoration to God's chosen from Biblical times but fail to assign the same possibility of righteousness or servant-hood to modern day. We look around our communities or societies and see broken people (including ourselves) that live broken lifestyles or have made huge errors in judgement in the past and, in a lot of ways, think that "us loving them" is the best thing that could happen. I think we need to start transforming our mindset to say that all broken people (including ourselves) not only need love but can thrive in the Kingdom of God as servants. I'm talking about the people that you view as the worst of the worst... those people can thrive in the Kingdom of God.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
3,985
Ann Arbor, Mi
Baptist here.

As a Christian living here in the west, it sucks that Christianity is being based the way it is...Like compared to that other one, we're....No I won't go there.

Anyway, being Black, I hated being told by so-called "woke" Black folk that I was a fool for being a Christian. "It's a White man's religion" or "You're a bunch of Uncle Toms" or "You like being brainwashed by your white daddy." Like really?!

We're being brainwashed, while our community is falling apart due to other reasons...

I totally missed this post, lol.

In terms of the "American Evangelical" brand of Christianity, I would agree that it is a "white man's religion." That is, the Bible-beating brand of conservatism that is more judgmental than loving, more interested in maintaining the status quo than being transformative.

Or to quote scripture, "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect," ~ Romans 12:2.Imagine not reading this scripture in light of hedonism as it is usually taken (though that, too is an acceptable reading), but read it in the context of conflict and strife being the status quo--hate being normal. To be even more specific to current events, I pray that Keaton kid would one day turn away from his mother's teachings and see the light.

Now if they're talking about Christianity proper, as in the Church and faith in general with their Black Madonna and such, yeah, they can miss me with that. .
If it makes any difference, I'm black too. Grew up in the black (baptist) church and I now also go to a non-denominational church that is comprised of congregants from different religious backgrounds. I have noticed a pattern, that most young modern Christians that I encounter are all non-denominational.

Didn't know those OT existed on Era. I'm glad I found it this morning! A little background - I grew up Christian and currently attend a somewhat large multi-site non-denominational church.



This is such an interesting and important point that many people either miss entirely or don't fully understand the weight of. We fail to translate this concept to modern day. We give so much adoration to God's chosen from Biblical times but fail to assign the same possibility of righteousness or servant-hood to modern day. We look around our communities or societies and see broken people (including ourselves) that live broken lifestyles or have made huge errors in judgement in the past and, in a lot of ways, think that "us loving them" is the best thing that could happen. I think we need to start transforming our mindset to say that all broken people (including ourselves) not only need love but can thrive in the Kingdom of God as servants. I'm talking about the people that you view as the worst of the worst... those people can thrive in the Kingdom of God.

AMEN!

I'm glad you found this. I'm definitely going to be doing my part to make sure this thread gets a post every now and then. We here!

I try to say to myself, "Forgive them, Lord, for they know not what they do," but that's a difficult prayer to say in earnest when I know that sometimes, people know *exactly* what they are doing. That's when I have to ask a skeptic's rhetorical question: "Can Jesus love, forgive, Satan?" Because some of these folks claim one thing but do another. We're talking beyond wolves in sheep's clothing.
 

Auros01

Avenger
Nov 17, 2017
5,522
I try to say to myself, "Forgive them, Lord, for they know not what they do," but that's a difficult prayer to say in earnest when I know that sometimes, people know *exactly* what they are doing. That's when I have to ask a skeptic's rhetorical question: "Can Jesus love, forgive, Satan?" Because some of these folks claim one thing but do another. We're talking beyond wolves in sheep's clothing.

I think the temptation to not pray for our enemies is one we have to consistently fight. I think one of the most amazing things about the Bible is how people like Paul were intentionally and knowingly doing horrible things against God. Then, they had some sort of experience that made them realize what they were doing and then they were compelled to change. We have to always consider this possibility when viewing people in the modern day. I mean, let's make it personal - I knowingly do things against God regularly. I'm a sinner. But I know people love me and pray for me and I know God can accomplish great things through me despite my failings. We can never stop believing in the power of the Holy Spirit to transform people (including ourselves) into someone that can be used be God to accomplish great things. I'm not saying it's easy - but we shouldn't give up on ourselves or others - even if we/they are wolves in sheep's clothing.

I'm dealing with this in my own life, actually. A member of my family was basically abused by a leader of our old church. He's since been held accountable for his actions and is facing significant consequences but this family member of mine has struggled with how to view the former church leader as a child of God. Can God redeem him after what he has done? Could he still go on to do great things for the Kingdom? Does he even know what he did was wrong? These are difficult questions that are even more difficult to answer in light of the emotional toll that the situation has taken on our family.
 

Rolento

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,539
Lurker of this thread, but just asking for prayer about finding a job right now. My boss had to lay me off today due to financial reasons with no hard feelings between anyone.

I'm not worried since I know God will take care of me no matter how hard it gets but was already stressed beforehand and this situation just added to the stress.

thx ahead of time to all you guys here and props on keeping the thread going <3
 

Manics

Member
Oct 25, 2017
797
Toronto
Lurker of this thread, but just asking for prayer about finding a job right now. My boss had to lay me off today due to financial reasons with no hard feelings between anyone.

I'm not worried since I know God will take care of me no matter how hard it gets but was already stressed beforehand and this situation just added to the stress.

thx ahead of time to all you guys here and props on keeping the thread going <3

Ooof, so close to Christmas too. Hoping for the best for you, will keep you in my thoughts and prayers along with anyone else who is suffering this time of year.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,377
New York
Lurker of this thread, but just asking for prayer about finding a job right now. My boss had to lay me off today due to financial reasons with no hard feelings between anyone.

I'm not worried since I know God will take care of me no matter how hard it gets but was already stressed beforehand and this situation just added to the stress.

thx ahead of time to all you guys here and props on keeping the thread going <3

That stinks. Prayers fam. Hope you get a new job soon! Got laid off at Christmas twice. Feels bad, man.
 
Oct 31, 2017
2,424
Found this thread from the other just like poster above. Glad there are a few Christians on this site.

Quick background, grew up in a charismatic church, had many questions about the Bible. Got saved as fire insurance. My search for the truth of the Gospel led me to my current belief that is now unshakable.

So yeah, glad to be among fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
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Oct 25, 2017
3,985
Ann Arbor, Mi
Found this thread from the other just like poster above. Glad there are a few Christians on this site.

Quick background, grew up in a charismatic church, had many questions about the Bible. Got saved as fire insurance. My search for the truth of the Gospel led me to my current belief that is now unshakable.

So yeah, glad to be among fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
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Double post, but I am curious about the "charismatic" sector.

I hadn't heard of it until recently.:

Christendom%20Quadrant.jpg


I'f familiar with liturgical, social justice, and evangelical, but I know little about the charismatic sector.
 
Oct 26, 2017
520
I also come from the other thread, it's good to see some fellow christians on era.

Lurker of this thread, but just asking for prayer about finding a job right now. My boss had to lay me off today due to financial reasons with no hard feelings between anyone.

I'm not worried since I know God will take care of me no matter how hard it gets but was already stressed beforehand and this situation just added to the stress.

thx ahead of time to all you guys here and props on keeping the thread going <3


I'll pray for you
 

WorldofMiku

attempted ban circumvention by using an alt
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
824
Hello hello! Another Pentecostal Christian here! Someone linked this in the Moore Christian thread and didn't know this community existed!
 

Auros01

Avenger
Nov 17, 2017
5,522
It's a crude drawing that I found on the internet but it will suffice.

the idea, though is to concentrate on the blending at the cross shape. At least at the church I go, we believe there is some value found in all of those Christian traditions.

So, this reminded me of something.

We had a (recurring) guest speaker at our church that talked a bit how different Christian denominations (and even other faiths like Islam or Judaism) relate to each other. I believe he started with a diagram like the crude drawing that is mentioned here but he made a rather poignant statement regarding Jesus not actually being present on that diagram.

His point was that we get so focused on comparing beliefs and some checklist of hot topics that we forget that the most important thing is how we all relate to Jesus Christ. I wish I had a picture of the diagram he drew in the end but it was essentially of all different denominations or faiths (that believe in Jesus in some form) being re-directed to a central point (Jesus). In practice, this meant that, as a non-denominational Christian, I shouldn't be trying to get people of other denominations to come to my church or to switch to a non-denominational church. Extending it further, I should not be attempting to get Muslims or Jewish people to "convert" to Christianity and abandon the cultural aspects of their faith. What I should be doing is simply re-directing them to Jesus. Let them get to know Jesus and see where He (and the Holy Spirit) takes them.
 

LuxCommander

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,051
Los Angeles, CA
Glad to see all the new faces, welcome!

I'm in a similar situation at my church as Phoenix, though we do lean a bit evangelical. The history is connected to spinning off from the Charismatic section, but we have a lot of Baptist castoffs involved, so it tends to skew accordingly.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,985
Ann Arbor, Mi
So, this reminded me of something.

We had a (recurring) guest speaker at our church that talked a bit how different Christian denominations (and even other faiths like Islam or Judaism) relate to each other. I believe he started with a diagram like the crude drawing that is mentioned here but he made a rather poignant statement regarding Jesus not actually being present on that diagram.

His point was that we get so focused on comparing beliefs and some checklist of hot topics that we forget that the most important thing is how we all relate to Jesus Christ. I wish I had a picture of the diagram he drew in the end but it was essentially of all different denominations or faiths (that believe in Jesus in some form) being re-directed to a central point (Jesus). In practice, this meant that, as a non-denominational Christian, I shouldn't be trying to get people of other denominations to come to my church or to switch to a non-denominational church. Extending it further, I should not be attempting to get Muslims or Jewish people to "convert" to Christianity and abandon the cultural aspects of their faith. What I should be doing is simply re-directing them to Jesus. Let them get to know Jesus and see where He (and the Holy Spirit) takes them.

Here's the longer part of it, which was hidden in a quote in one of my earlier posts, but nobody responded to it, so I'll post it again, without the quotation so that everyone can see it in full:

Most churches function as a bounded-set. The church I go to is center-set. In a bounded set church, there are discrete boundaries which delineate who is in and who is out. For example, to participate in a Baptist church, you MUST be baptized, abstain from alcohol. If you're Lutheran, MUST perform confirmation. If you're Pentecostal, you MUST speak in tongues after baptism.


Failure to do these things means you are out. You are not true Baptist, Lutheran, or Pentecostal. "Bounded" by tradition. The problem my church has with this is that you could check off everything, such as baptism, tithe, attend church, and still, for example, hate people.


A centered-set church places Christ at the center, believing that he is alive, as well as the people who are following him. God (we could say the Spirit) moves. Therefore, we are also continuously moving away or closer to God. In this model, even those who do not claim to follow Christ can still be doing Christ-like things and closer to him than someone who claims to love God, but hates people (you could argue that salvation, then is in jeopardy for both parties: "I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father except through me" and "Forgive and you shall be forgiven"). This model is more inclusive.


Bounded-vs-Centered-Set_God-570x269.jpg



For example, in my membership class, there are two Catholics, two Southern Baptists, a Lutheran, a Methodist (IIRC), and there's me, who is either agnostic, Black Baptist, or non-denomonation depending on interpretations of my spiritual trajectory.


So I asked a question, referring indirectly to Unversalist Unitarians, as to how the church nagivates when someone makes arbitrary claims about God's direction in their lives. Like, whatever they feel God says, is okay for them. After all, in the centered-set model, I could be moving closer to God in the aspect of prayer and meditation, but moving away from him in terms of serving (whether or not this model "weighs" proximity to Christ in relationship with reading your Bible and praying as less critical than service when a hurricane wipes out Puerto Rico, is up for debate, or at least, remains unclear to me thus far).


The pastor said my question was legit: if someone says that Polyamory is their thing, and points to scripture where it happens, and says it might not necessarily be for you, there is a check for that:


quadrilateral-pyramid.png



Right off the bat, my church rejects things like "sola scriptura" or "by scripture alone." Scripture is certainly a critical component to the gospel, but some Christians, like Paul, might have been routed (or not at all) in cultural or religious tradition and yet encountered a Divine Experience before encountering any scripture whatsoever.


This "quadrangle" resonates with me profoundly. Like, I was shook all day. There is so much talk about faith in the Bible, and even wisdom, but the logistics of cognition would have to wait for post-Enlightenment theology. For my faith began with Reason--there must be an explanation for all the phenomena around the world. Where was matter before the Big Bang? What is the probability that humans would "evolve" from single-celled organisms to the magnificent biological machines that we are now? Therefore, God must exist.


And I went toward scripture, and now I'm going around seeking one of those Holy Ghost-like experiences.


I tend to stay away from tradition. Pastor mentioned that he is doing six rosarie prayers during this chapter of his prayer life as enrichment--after all, it is a 1000 year practice. I, on the other hand, feel that tradition does more harm than good to the modern church, but I am willing to entertain them.


My question forced a 30-minute digression out of a class session that is 90 minutes long. I was proud.


There was some other stuff that I wanted to discuss, but nobody replied, lol.
 
Oct 31, 2017
2,424
I like getting into discussions like the one you posted and I believe there are answers in the bible like the polygamy question.

When I attended a Pentecostal church the gist was Catholics and some other sects weren't true christians. I had a hard time believing that because heaven will be very empty if that was the case. John 3:16 among many other scriptures makes it clear as long as Jesus is your Lord and savior, you make it.
 

Auros01

Avenger
Nov 17, 2017
5,522
So I asked a question, referring indirectly to Unversalist Unitarians, as to how the church nagivates when someone makes arbitrary claims about God's direction in their lives.

I did read your entire post but I think this sentence really gets down to the crux of the matter. I think the quadrangle illustration is key, depending on how you interpret it. I've always viewed those different aspects as checks-and-balances. You won't always have had a spiritual or Holy Spirit-led experience regarding an issue, so Scripture or reasoning/counseling from another party can help fill the gap. Another example - maybe you are feeling led in a certain direction by the Holy Spirit but it's in an unexpected direction. In this case, it can be good to reference that direction against Scripture or (again) reasoning/counseling from another to ensure you aren't misinterpreting your experience. The traditions one is a little fuzzier to me - not sure exactly what it's place is.

Overall, I would say this checks-and-balances approach is really well understood by people with the gift of discernment. They can better avoid the tunnel vision that people often fall victim to when they only look at their own experiences or only look at their own interpretation of Scripture.

I like getting into discussions like the one you posted and I believe there are answers in the bible like the polygamy question.

When I attended a Pentecostal church the gist was Catholics and some other sects weren't true christians. I had a hard time believing that because heaven will be very empty if that was the case. John 3:16 among many other scriptures makes it clear as long as Jesus is your Lord and savior, you make it.

I always find it so interesting when other churches concern themselves with whether or not other denominations are actual Christians or whether they are going to Heaven. They truly can't see the forest for the trees. They're so concerned with judging the individual beliefs of every person that they stop working on the one thing that unites all follower's of Christ - the Great Commission (Matthew 28:16-20).
 
Nov 2, 2017
4,490
More of an overall religious question:
Is it possible to believe in a god but "disbelieve" the Bible or any other holy book? Is it possible to believe in a god without a heaven...or hell? What if there are millions or billions of Gods?
 

LOLDSFAN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,037

Rolento

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,539
Wanted to say thanks for anyone who prayed for me, and I have awesome news:

A friend of my wife asked me to come over to talk about some tech work I've been doing and, totally something only God can make happen in the way it happened, it turned into a job working for them!

It's a big responsibility but already this new job pays better than my previous and has built in health care benefits!

Yay! God is awesome!

If anything this strengthens my faith even more already ^_^
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,985
Ann Arbor, Mi
LOLDSFAN They were talking about me.

Wanted to say thanks for anyone who prayed for me, and I have awesome news:

A friend of my wife asked me to come over to talk about some tech work I've been doing and, totally something only God can make happen in the way it happened, it turned into a job working for them!

It's a big responsibility but already this new job pays better than my previous and has built in health care benefits!

Yay! God is awesome!

If anything this strengthens my faith even more already ^_^

PRAISE THE LORD!!!

This reminds me of when I ended up dropping out of my Ph.D. program only to land a job two years later, getting paid far more than my colleagues who finished their doctorate's. Feels good, man!