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TrueSloth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,068
Ill never understand why Era mods come down harsh on some people but let shit post like this exist.
Equality wont change until a revolution occurs. I'm not suggesting we kill the ultra wealthy, but based on the history of revolutions people have died to reestablish equality. Our government is corrupt as fuck. We have some hope in there with the new congress people, but if we want meaningful change any time soon, we absolutely need a revolution.
 

Auros01

Avenger
Nov 17, 2017
5,513
Because everyone can be CEO, right?

Basically this.

I realize they are probably just playing dumb when they answer these questions publicly but, man, saying you are started as a "low wage" employee literally has almost zero relevance to how much you make as a CEO. At least respond to the correct question.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
This is the same type of banking mindset that has these banks making shitty hot takes about how normal people should be using their money.

Its not just the GOP and the trump supporters that have become embolded, the entire neoliberal ultra rich order has become embolded, to the point where they are not attempting to hide their tone deaf attitudes regarding anyone below their status.

Crony capitalism has essentially become the new mainstream
 

Squarehard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,990
old.jpg
 

RSTEIN

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,873
Equality wont change until a revolution occurs. I'm not suggesting we kill the ultra wealthy, but based on the history of revolutions people have died to reestablish equality. Our government is corrupt as fuck. We have some hope in there with the new congress people, but if we want meaningful change any time soon, we absolutely need a revolution.

When you say equality what do you mean by that? Everyone to be paid the same? Everyone to have the same amount of money?
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
Most, if not all, CEO's of the largest corporations in the world have plenty of blood on their hands. Every day they make self serving decisions that enrich themselves, their Boards and major stakeholders at the expense of the vast majority of the population. Decisions that lead, directly and indirectly, to deaths, suicides, homelessness, poverty and the destruction of the social tissue and safety nets that are supposed to help all. And not only do they never suffer any consequences, they are constantly rewarded for it.

But drop a line about how maybe some of those fuckers should admire the view from the safety of a bridge cage, and the embarassed millionaires lose their shit.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,946
He makes 17,000 sound paltry. And if that's what he wants to claim, then that's about 43k in today's dollars. 6k away from the median salary of the company. The current median Citigroup employee is making 14% more than than what Corbat started at in 1983.

Bingo. In addition to that the one day they can be in my shoes is false hope used to protect their interests. Literally only a handful of people could ever ascend to that level in their lives and they know that and sadly a lot of low salary employees buy it.
 

anthro

Member
Oct 28, 2017
420
This is how the ultra rich think, and why they are considered evil. THey arent, but their minds are warped into beliving they got to where they are just by talent and so everyone else deserves to languish.

Abigail's critisism of Disney prompted Disney to make the boneheaded statement that the CEO's pay was "99% performance based", as if he worked over 1000x times harder than anyone else at the company and thus deserved to be paid that much.

It has to be performance based to fulfill their ego driven personalities. Guys at the executive level of these major companies are often authentically, ideologically committed to beliefs about merit because many do have demanding schedules at the office, traveling or having meetings all day, and so they don't get to enjoy their massive compensation in the way somebody fantasizing about the Mega Millions might. But what it really represents can be a quantifiable measure of their social value. The board pays them some $20 mil a year or whatever, and that is a nationwide top of the line executive pay. That suggests skills are as coveted as the most elite executives in the country. To fulfill their self-image and desire for incredible success, the compensation has to reflect their social value. If it is arbitrarily determined by forces larger than any of us then they may have to reconcile with all kinds of weird feelings and thoughts about whether or not this particular manifestation of their social value actually reflects anything substantial, whether they're a villain, whether they'd prefer to be a prestigious villain than face the uncertainty of a world that doesn't provide them the role they have now, etc.

Of course, I'm sure many of them do reconcile with that and come to the conclusion they'd rather protect their arbitrary privileges because that is the form and content of their success.
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,206
Equality wont change until a revolution occurs. I'm not suggesting we kill the ultra wealthy, but based on the history of revolutions people have died to reestablish equality. Our government is corrupt as fuck. We have some hope in there with the new congress people, but if we want meaningful change any time soon, we absolutely need a revolution.

"I'm not saying we should kill, but if it happens...well, ya gotta break a few eggs in the name of equality!"

Pretty sure this is in line with Robespierre thought, and it's no surprise that the Reign of Terror was a thing that happened.

Structural and fundamental changes need to take place, no denying that, but low key advocating death is pretty fucked up.
 

Narpas Sword0

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,088
"I'm not saying we should kill, but if it happens...well, ya gotta break a few eggs in the name of equality!"

Pretty sure this is in line with Robespierre thought, and it's no surprise that the Reign of Terror was a thing that happened.

Structural and fundamental changes need to take place, no denying that, but low key advocating death is pretty fucked up.

Advocating the status quo, or a slow and gradual change to the status quo (which isn't even close to happening), is advocating death.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
This guy dies tomorrow and nothing would be lost for this company. To justify that hes worth 24 million a year is absurd.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,258
Ya and a 4 year college degree from a private university in 1980 cost less than $10k.

Anything else, Mr. Ceo?
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Structural and fundamental changes need to take place, no denying that
Fundamental and structural changes usually accompany death, whether through revolution or warfare or societal collapse, because it is a common trend for the ruling class not to give up their power voluntarily and fight for it to the bitter end.

Haitian Revolution?
American Civil War?

The independence of India was a pretty unique one but a lot of that was due to the damage WWII cause to Britain that made ruling their colonial territories untenable. The democratic revolutions of history were mostly bloody and messy.
 

TrueSloth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,068
When you say equality what do you mean by that? Everyone to be paid the same? Everyone to have the same amount of money?
Lol. No. I dont care if people make more money than me. Incentives in pay is important, but I dont need to clarify the statistics in income inequality to make my point.
 

mattiewheels

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,107
Most, if not all, CEO's of the largest corporations in the world have plenty of blood on their hands. Every day they make self serving decisions that enrich themselves, their Boards and major stakeholders at the expense of the vast majority of the population. Decisions that lead, directly and indirectly, to deaths, suicides, homelessness, poverty and the destruction of the social tissue and safety nets that are supposed to help all. And not only do they never suffer any consequences, they are constantly rewarded for it.

But drop a line about how maybe some of those fuckers should admire the view from the safety of a bridge cage, and the embarassed millionaires lose their shit.
Don't be so cartoonish or 'internet badass' about how they should all be hung from bridges or decapitated, and maybe people will start to take you seriously.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,002
If this was 1700s France, the man would have been beheaded by the public for saying something like this.

Yet here we are in 2019, hoping society would have learned from history and the oppression of the wealthy. Instead, the PR media records a statement like this, and probably half the country thinks this is a completely acceptable answer, in fact possibly even an admirable answer.

I can't believe how many Americans accept this shit from the 1%
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,306
Fundamental and structural changes usually accompany death, whether through revolution or warfare or societal collapse, because it is a common trend for the ruling class not to give up their power voluntarily and fight for it to the bitter end.

Haitian Revolution?
American Civil War?

The independence of India was a pretty unique one but a lot of that was due to the damage WWII cause to Britain that made ruling their colonial territories untenable. The democratic revolutions of history were mostly bloody and messy.
I still believe in the power of non-violent resistance. The elite can buy tons of security and they also control the security infrastructure. I can't see a French Revolution still uprising happening. It would be very bloody.
 

phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
"I'm not saying we should kill, but if it happens...well, ya gotta break a few eggs in the name of equality!"

Pretty sure this is in line with Robespierre thought, and it's no surprise that the Reign of Terror was a thing that happened.

Structural and fundamental changes need to take place, no denying that, but low key advocating death is pretty fucked up.

Yeah, this is pretty sickening.

CEO salaries should be capped. We have a salary cap on government employees here.
The big problem is that it basically requires the US to join in. Banking is global industry and the argument had always been that the top stars just move abroad if salaries are higher there.

Personally I think its time to just cap it at 4/5x median. If you cant live with that, tough shit.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
I still believe in the power of non-violent resistance. The elite can buy tons of security and they also control the security infrastructure.
Wait those two sentences don't make sense in conjunction. It's because that they can buy physical and legal security that will escalate public reactions.

Did you see the food shortage/societal collapse thread?

https://www.resetera.com/threads/st...0-due-to-food-shortages.114978/#post-20440505

I mean I don't believe society will collapse in 2040 but when climate change disaster increases and these millionaires are sitting in their bunker-shelters with private security forces, people are going to get upset.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
No it isn't.

Or at least I don't think you can make such extreme claims without providing some form of evidence that supports your point.

Otherwise you sound unhinged.

Homelessness in America:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...the-most-homeless-people-in-2018-infographic/

Poverty in America:

https://povertyusa.org/facts

This is the richest country in the world.

This is the status quo.

For there to be millionaires, this is the result.
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,206
Advocating the status quo, or a slow and gradual change to the status quo (which isn't even close to happening), is advocating death.

Not advocating either of those things. I'm saying that anyone casual enough to be OK with people dying is the problem.

Fundamental and structural changes usually accompany death, whether through revolution or warfare or societal collapse, because it is a common trend for the ruling class not to give up their power voluntarily and fight for it to the bitter end.

Haitian Revolution?
American Civil War?

The independence of India was a pretty unique one but a lot of that was due to the damage WWII cause to Britain that made ruling their colonial territories untenable. The democratic revolutions of history were mostly bloody and messy.

Any time someone is "OK" with people dying (or looking forward to their enemies hung in cages off of bridges, as was earlier said) is either being hyperbolic, or flippant. About people dying. That's the problem.


Most of the people that die aren't the ones that are being removed from power. Let's just establish that as a baseline. But let's say it's the aristocracy. Do you execute them? Their spouses? Their children? Their extended family? Their friends?

Where does the line get drawn? Because if history is any indicator, people that are all for death, or just very accepting of it without a shred of concern, are the ones that won't stop with what they say they want. That should make people pay attention.
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,306
Wait those two sentences don't make sense in conjunction. It's because that they can buy physical and legal security that will escalate public reactions.
I'll concede that. But the rich are also cloistered in gated communities, upscale suburbs, and so on. Where are you confronting them?
 

phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
If we're complaining about Citi, I just want to point out that they paid their investment banking summer analysts overtime post the recession, while the other banks capped their salary regardless of hours worked. So Citi interns would just sleep at the office and make upwards of $10K more than the rest of us at other banks over the summer.

Still heated about that to this day. #eattherich #fuckciti

I dont think you're one of the poor though..
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Where does the line get drawn? Because if history is any indicator, people that are all for death, or just very accepting of it without a shred of concern, are the ones that won't stop with what they say they want. That should make people pay attention.
People are already dying, it's just legal so no one cares or they don't notice it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/24/us-healthcare-republican-bill-no-coverage-death

people that are all for death, or just very accepting of it without a shred of concern
This describes Wall Street friendly politicians and overcompensated CEOs btw.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
Don't be so cartoonish or 'internet badass' about how they should all be hung from bridges or decapitated, and maybe people will start to take you seriously.

Address what i say in my post instead of clutching your pearls about things i didn't say. Ignore the second paragraph if you'd like. Do you disagre with the first? Because that's what matters in that post.

On a side note, i don't give a shit whether people who think capitalism is just fine take me seriously or not. Reality comes for us all.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
But the rich are also cloistered in gated communities, upscale suburbs, and so on. Where are you confronting them?

This is a weird question. Had you said, "these millionaires/billionaires will fly away to private islands and buy a naval force to guard their waters", I would understand that they would be impractical to confront for average citizens.

But you can just literally drive through a "gate community" as long as it's connected to a large land mass.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
Where does the line get drawn?

This is my question as well. Millions of people around the world die and suffer each day due to the excesses of capitalism. But you are worried about someone hypothetically advocating for the death of one millionaire. Where is your line? Is it dead poor=ok dead rich=not ok?
 

mattiewheels

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,107
Address what i say in my post instead of clutching your pearls about things i didn't say. Ignore the second paragraph if you'd like. Do you disagre with the first? Because that's what matters in that post.

On a side note, i don't give a shit whether people who think capitalism is just fine take me seriously or not. Reality comes for us all.
Dude, I agree with everything you said in the first paragraph I quoted. But you've got a lot of people here including mods who dig the whole death to rich people thing, so you don't have to worry as coming off as unhinged, I guess.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,800
The argument of ending up as the CEO is such a fucking shit one. I guess we'll all just rotate through the position, one day at a time? Stupid nugget doesn't realise just how many people are employed beneath him, and how capitalism is a pyramid scheme at its core in terms of how things are produced and managed. The base must exist and be wide, but you can definitely compensate them appropriately considering the profits reaped from their labour.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,146
Adjust for inflation and that is 43,387.89 in today's dollars. There median pay is barely beating it.
 

Amnesty

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,686
It has to be performance based to fulfill their ego driven personalities. Guys at the executive level of these major companies are often authentically, ideologically committed to beliefs about merit because many do have demanding schedules at the office, traveling or having meetings all day, and so they don't get to enjoy their massive compensation in the way somebody fantasizing about the Mega Millions might. But what it really represents can be a quantifiable measure of their social value. The board pays them some $20 mil a year or whatever, and that is a nationwide top of the line executive pay. That suggests skills are as coveted as the most elite executives in the country. To fulfill their self-image and desire for incredible success, the compensation has to reflect their social value. If it is arbitrarily determined by forces larger than any of us then they may have to reconcile with all kinds of weird feelings and thoughts about whether or not this particular manifestation of their social value actually reflects anything substantial, whether they're a villain, whether they'd prefer to be a prestigious villain than face the uncertainty of a world that doesn't provide them the role they have now, etc.

Of course, I'm sure many of them do reconcile with that and come to the conclusion they'd rather protect their arbitrary privileges because that is the form and content of their success.
I think most of them are simply delusional in the sense that the value they've formed around what they do and achieve affords them a transcendent form, in their minds. Like they legit feel themselves to be higher beings because of what they are. You can see doses of this kind of ideology in most aspects of society, because we live under capitalism.

It's just really kind of miserable that they're blinded by what amounts to a sort of faith, because they are of course still going to die and whatever transcendent power they think they have that only serves themselves means nothing in the end. I'm somewhat baffled at times why rich people the world over don't pool their resources into aging science so they help figure out how to actually significantly alter those kinds of biological processes and keep themselves around longer. Imagine where medical/biological technology would be if wealth the world over was used to advance science towards health and living and there were tons of people everywhere being educated to contribute. Like Star Trek or something. That potential is unknown, but we're really just going so slowly right now because science just isn't funded enough unless it's for war or consumer gadgets. We're all so constrained right now in terms of the potential of humanity, and the wealthy don't realize that they are just as limited as anyone.

I mean, it's ultimately a mix of things, these clouds of delusion, centuries of mythology about afterlives and a lot of other ignorance. It's just kind of pathetic really, the people with the most power over and within humanity aren't interested in progress that would radically improve the quality of life for themselves and everyone, so much as they have descended into a solipsistic hole of meaning where wealth becomes this transcendent symbol or icon.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797
Homelessness in America:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...the-most-homeless-people-in-2018-infographic/

Poverty in America:

https://povertyusa.org/facts

This is the richest country in the world.

This is the status quo.

For there to be millionaires, this is the result.

Okay.

And you can address those issues without violent revolution or wishing death on people, lol

Vote and push for measures to close income inequality. Push for socialised support structures which ensure that the most vulnerable in society are helped out.

The idea that the injustices highlighted will suddenly disappear once the system is crushed, seems naive.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Where does the line get drawn?
It changes from revolution to revolution but, as saenima said above, usually there's already death and suffering every day, just for the poorest people.

A sufficient number of poor people dying (and a sufficient number of people becoming poor) creates the conditions for revolution. The line is drawn automatically (or by market forces?) when people would rather fight for their lives than lay down and die. Basically when people hit the "nothing left to lose" point they go for the pitchforks.

Revolutions end when they run out of anger or achieve their goals, again, this will vary from revolution to revolution so there isn't a hard and fast line. It is drawn invisibly by the aggregate movement and decisions of people.
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,206
People are already dying, it's just legal so no one cares or they don't notice it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/24/us-healthcare-republican-bill-no-coverage-death

This describes Wall Street friendly politicians and overcompensated CEOs btw.

I know they're wicked, but trading one evil for another (death) isn't progress. Trying to minimize violence is one thing, being casual about it is another. We're not them, and we can't let ourselves be like that. I think. I can't speak for anyone that's affected directly or indirectly, and if they're mad enough to be OK with it, so be it.

This is my question as well. Millions of people around the world die and suffer each day due to the excesses of capitalism. But you are worried about someone hypothetically advocating for the death of one millionaire. Where is your line? Is it dead poor=ok dead rich=not ok?

Talk about lines...the bolded is way out of line. Low key trying to frame my words like that by just asking questions?

Anyone looking at history will know that it NEVER stops there. Being casual about killing is a really slippery slope.
 

RSTEIN

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,873
To those saying kill rich people/outlaw wealth greater than a specific amount: what do you think would happen if being rich was outlawed?
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,206
It changes from revolution to revolution but, as saenima said above, usually there's already death and suffering every day, just for the poorest people.

A sufficient number of poor people dying (and a sufficient number of people becoming poor) creates the conditions for revolution. The line is drawn automatically (or by market forces?) when people would rather fight for their lives than lay down and die. Basically when people hit the "nothing left to lose" point they go for the pitchforks.

Revolutions end when they run out of anger or achieve their goals, again, this will vary from revolution to revolution so there isn't a hard and fast line. It is drawn invisibly by the aggregate movement and decisions of people.

I'm sorry for the confusion...my line is where does the killing of the opposition start? Who is the opposition? It's easy to get into a really slippery slope with that, and if we're casual about it, then it's damn near a slip and slide for the people calling the shots.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
Dude, I agree with everything you said in the first paragraph I quoted. But you've got a lot of people here including mods who dig the whole death to rich people thing, so you don't have to worry as coming off as unhinged, I guess.

Hey i too would rather live in a society where inequality didn't exist and people who are clearly psychopaths and exploit society for self gain at the expense of the overall wellbeing were arrested, prosecuted and jailed. Rehabilitated if possible. I would love if our society would take finantial crimes and abuses that affect millions of people more seriously and real consequences for the perpretators existed. But we don't live in that world. Look at what happened to Wall Street after they dragged the entire world into chaos. We live in a world where the only way these people will let go from power is by taking it by force. So between maintaning the status quo and letting some heads roll i know what option would benefit the most.