Wealth inequality is worse than the French revolution and approximately half the country is clamoring for a fascist takeover.
CNBC: Democrats set to cut free community college, climate program from Biden’s economic plan as they trim price tag (UP: paid family leave too)
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
Manchin is the last Democrat who will ever be a Senator from West Virginia. Increasing majority in Senate is all Dems can do and that'll
Be very hard
There were obviously big problems then but the country was still governable then. We were even still able to come together after 9/11. We're in much worse shape now and the next major crisis will be an unmitigated disaster.
Even if the filibuster was scrapped this is the best bill we'd get. There's not 50 Dems for a better bill. There's not 50 Dems for Puerto Rico or DC Statehood. There's not 50 Dems for Medicare for All. There's not 50 Dems for an actual Green New Deal. I don't even know if there's 50 Dems for voting rights, maybe for the Manchin compromised one, maybe.
Granted, I agree it's the GOPs fault as they're a hundred percent against everything not Democrats who are like 4 percent against everything so people should place the blame where it belongs.
Well Bernie ain't running again, but who on the national stage can we rally behind to kick this can down the road? It will be 10 years before we get another swing at this stuff. Looks like the shit systems we have now are going to stay.
especially with folks trying to blame the entire party and the president for the actions of two people.
liberals are their own worst enemies.
Look I get it, I'm in the same position with student loans. I often support doing the right thing even if I don't personally benefit and so should all. Thing is though that most voters don't care that much about things that solely help other people, benefits NEED to be broadly felt or people will not care. Secondly many people are suffering, and many are consistently ignored by dems, eventually if their problems are neglected for too long they are going to stop caring to pass things that benefit others.
Dems are projecting the message that everything is largely fine, lets just take care of the few people suffering the most and everything is fine, amd we DO need to help those people. However, the dissapearing middle class, who can't afford homes, who can't afford school, whi can't afford healthcare and who are concerned about climate change, are eventually going to stop responding.
Stop thinking of not voting as a privileged position to take. The least privileged people in the US are less likely to vote than the most privileged, because our institutions let them down decade after decade. You don't have to blame yourself for having no faith in this bullshit.
It really is not that much at all. We spend like 25% MORE than that every fucking year on Defense. 550b is absolutely too little and climate change is one area where incrementalism will literally kill us.
To be honest, I suspect more would come out of the woodwork if they didn't know Manchin and Sinema would take this tact. I'm open to voting for democrats obviously, but only if they explicitly commit to the kind of change we need. Republicans have their candidates sogn pledges all of the time it's time we follow suit. Don't kid yourself, failure will sink the entire party regardless of the details on the minds of most.
Honestly, we need to get beyond looking for saviors in elected positions and start building mass worker power again.
The New Deal, legislation which was actually transformative for our society, was possible because labor unions and workers basically bullied FDR into prioritizing them over capital. Without worker power, it wouldn't have happened.
Worker and labor power is weaker than it's ever been and guess what? Democrats have been complicit in that process over the decades, back to the post-war 50s, when capital started slowly chipping away at it again.
We will not transform our society by relying on electoralism, especially in a system as broken as ours. It's one of our tools but not our only one or even the most important one.
This is probably our problem. Every day right wingers elect radical nutjobs to all the mundane local and State positions solidifying their grip on even competitive States while we fret about who we can make President hoping that person can strongarm the country.
I'm not a liberal and people like chris coons are waiting in the wing if say right now Susan Collins had her brain magically altered to have the exact same political views as bernie putting the dems at 51
We need to start getting people on the left active in local and state politics. It is ridiculous how easy and often it is for right-wing nutjobs to take over state and local positions, often unopposed. Look at the massive number of right-wing hacks that have taken over school boards and make shit like CRT a number one issue that needs to be tackled. Our tunnel vision focus on on federal and (to a lesser extent) gubernatorial elections have hurt us.
Dont know what to tel you. We both know it is woefully inadequate. Let me register my disappointment without taking petty issue with it.
the appeal to be the kingmaker is strong if you don't have ether a party trained to March lockstep or a small enough majority that a single holdout can profit greatly.
purity tests and pledges don't mean much and have no legal force. For example, the lady from AZ is acting the complete opposite of how she promised when she ran.
Thry don't mean much until reelection. Sinema, in particular needs to lose badly, even if that means losing the state. They have teeth if voters follow through.
this is the only real action we can take. But the left tends to ignore anything but the big offices, and they bray and gnash their teeth that things continue to slip away from them, raging at folks who can't magically make the bad stuff go away or force others to vote how they want.
Oh, I'm disappointed too. Be disappointed! Be pissed off! Be livid. But let that anger turn into action. That is all I am saying. I wanted this bill to be transformative. I am not praising the Dems for this bill. I am simply saying its better than the status quo, does a lot of good for lots of people who need it.
My anger is towards those who want to tank this bill because it may not help them specifically.
but as we can see from this thread, folks will not only vote against her, but against other democrats who did do their jobs and perhaps even refuse to vote altogether, making it easier for the gop to retake control.
The first time the people mobbed the streets in decades was last may - july after george floyd. What did that accomplish? Not a real damn thing for the black and brown communities.
Politicians dont give a shit about that. They give a shit about MONEY and being voted out because they cant continue sucking off the tit of the govt without being in such a position of power.
ALWAYS VOTE
For all you that keep telling people not to vote, cut that shit out. VOTE. Or we'll be worse off than we are now.
People keep saying this, and people keep voting, yet somehow things keep getting worse. It's almost as if the game is rigged.
Unfortunately many in this thread dont give a shit. Dems are on the brink of spending $5 trillion dollars in 10 months that primarily go to help the poor and middle class with only 50 Senators.
Doesnt matter though, take down the Dem party /s.
Of all the whacked out crazy stuff you spew, this is literally the most absurd easily. The US was objectively exponentially economically better during the 50s and 80s. You aren't even on the same planet as sanity right now.
Whatever little microcosm you've formed your worldview around, you need to break out of it, because this is Tucker Carlson levels of crazy here. This is approaching Alex Jones. Your worldview and reality have so grossly diverged if you think the United States is in a more stable position now than in the 50s or 80s.
"I hated Trump, but I'll never vote again so someone as bad as Trump can get back in"
Great fucking logic. Florida stay catching L's.
When the GOP takes control it's not going to be because people didn't vote. It's going to be because they redistricted and gerrymandered and changed voting laws while the currently elected democrats did nothing to stop them.
Seems like that's what Joe Biden and the conservative liberals are signing off on. Who needs Voting Rights Protections and the right to healthcare when you can make sure there people don't get too "entitled."
yea, it's rigged in the gop's favor. Has been for decades.
so what are you going to do about it?
So what, exactly can they do, given their lack of majorities in many states and two turncoats who block progress on the national level?
Tell me...what do you suggest Joe Biden does to force Manchin, Sinema, and others to repeal the filibuster. Do tell.
Blame the politicians you support not the people getting fucked over. It's not this individual's responsibility to overcome the system doing whatever the fuck it wants regardless of who is in power.
Once again, the people want Medicare Negotiating Down drug prices. Drugs that people need to not die.
It is overwhelmingly possible. The Democratic Party has promised it for decades. They are in complete control of Biden's agenda and have the political support to do the thing.
Bob Menendez of pure fucking blue New Jersey opposes it along with a bunch of other paid off Democrats.
Why should anyone give a shit about voting in an election when Bob Menendez is going to go against the party's stated platform and the people's overwhelming opinion on a life or death piece of legislation? Bob gets paid. Our votes don't matter.
Blaming people for this corruption who aren't in the beast is running cover for thieves and crooks.
First off, it's not my job.
Second, apply all kinds of pressure. Use the media to propagandize against Manchin. Hint that you would primary him. Call him a corrupt piece of shit publicly from the office of the Presidency. Use the platform of the Presidency to liken him to Jim Crow politicians. Use the platform to attack the conservative wing of the party with real fervor. Don't publicly concede almost half of the bill's funding before going to the "negotiating" table.
Use executive power to actually do things which can be done in regards to camps, school debt.
Call on Harris to disregard the parliamentarian who gave the Democrats cover to strip immigration reform from the reconciliation bill, gave them permission to strip a minimum wage hike from the "must pass" reconciliation bill from earlier this year
Maybe be a leader and shame them, call them out and blame them if they're responsible for nothing getting done. But they're probably the outspoken one's, there's probably other Democrats who disagree behind the scenes.
Yeah, acting like Biden and Harris can't do shit is rich when they broke their promise on $15 minimum wage because of the parliamentarian/decorum/procedure. 🚩🚩🚩
So you want to threaten the only Dem Senator who could actually win a statewide race in the reddest state of country with a primary during the most tense part of negotiations for a bill that needs his vote?
Ok..
Sounds like a plan...
Basically, you dont have shit.
What part of Simema and Manchin don't really want this bill do you not understand? They will take any opportunity to blow the whole thing up to prove their "independent" bonafides
But just sitting by & letting things continue to be bad isn't good either. We need better people in office, & we need people to vote to get them in. I would rather keep fighting than to just let us go into ruin.
yep. I am convinced many in this thread have no concept of what it takes to pass any piece of legislation or what limits a President has. Carry on with living in a fantasy world.
I'd better keep voting and getting the same shit results every time. I don't know. It's all futile.
It's quite depressing to read the cluelessness. Talking about primarying Manchin? He would welcome that! lmao
It just tells the tale. People here who have no idea of how to negotiate whether in the business world, their own relationships, or politically. let them complain, not vote, say legislation that will help millions should be tanked, its par for the course.