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JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,904
So you want to threaten the only Dem Senator who could actually win a statewide race in the reddest state of country with a primary during the most tense part of negotiations for a bill that needs his vote?

Ok..

Sounds like a plan...

Basically, you dont have shit.
Basically, none of us have shit unless your goals are slowly making all but a minority of rich people's lives worse.

Right now people are correctly angry over a completely ineffective party sabotaging a basic maintenance bill for liberal democracy.

I don't understand why the liberals aren't more concerned about this. These kind of funding bills would be lay-ups in a rational system. The current state of the Democratic Party is too far for even an earlier version of the neo-liberal order.
 

Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877


Biden is going on a trip and Pelosi is telling people to not embarrass Biden by voting it down,

This is giving me no confidence on anybody wanting to get stuff done.
 

cloudy

Member
Nov 10, 2017
3,256
Is the child tax credit in this bill and for how long.

This is what's in the framework:

  • Universal preschool for all 3- and 4-year olds, which is funded for at least 6 years.
  • Subsidized child care that caps what parents pay at 7% of their income, which is funded for 6 years.
  • A one-year extension of the current expanded Child Tax Credit, which impacts approximately 35 million households nationwide.
  • Expanded tax credits for 10 years for utility and residential clean energy, including electric vehicles.
  • Extend the current, pandemic-related Affordable Care Act subsidies for 4 years.
  • Allow Medicare to cover the cost of hearing.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,904
It just tells the tale. People here who have no idea of how to negotiate whether in the business world, their own relationships, or politically. let them complain, not vote, say legislation that will help millions should be tanked, its par for the course.
You really have no idea. We aren't getting shit. Things will continue to get worse. We have no impact on this.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,545
New York


Biden is going on a trip and Pelosi is telling people to not embarrass Biden by voting it down,

This is giving me no confidence on anybody wanting to get stuff done.

lol this is that meme about putting the stick into the bicycle

Biden chose to go overseas now and Pelosi chose to vote on the infrastructure bill now as well. They have only themselves to blame.
 

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,576
I'd better keep voting and getting the same shit results every time. I don't know. It's all futile.

it's clearly not. Get enough democrats in seats and they can do something.

but instead voters throw up their hands and scream when a party not in power can overcome the blockage of the one who is. Put more democrats in local seats, fight for those seats that aren't gerrymandered and fight the disinformation the gop spreads to suppress left wing votes.

don't ignore the down ballots, vote every seat every time.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,904
If the parliamentarian told Mitch McConnell the GOP can't use X to pass a huge tax cut, he'd laugh in that parliamentarian's face and pass it anyway...and that parliamentarian would be out of that job within a month.
Because none of the important Democrats in office want to do it. It doesn't matter how savvy you are or how you politick. There are no levers of graft to be pulled that won't be overcome by lobbyists, because the people don't really matter that much in this system. Your constituents being anger can be dissipated into culture wars or they will just fall into disinterest.
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,062
First off, it's not my job.
Second, apply all kinds of pressure. Use the media to propagandize against Manchin. Hint that you would primary him. Call him a corrupt piece of shit publicly from the office of the Presidency. Use the platform of the Presidency to liken him to Jim Crow politicians. Use the platform to attack the conservative wing of the party with real fervor. Don't publicly concede almost half of the bill's funding before going to the "negotiating" table.

Use executive power to actually do things which can be done in regards to camps, school debt.

Call on Harris to disregard the parliamentarian who gave the Democrats cover to strip immigration reform from the reconciliation bill, gave them permission to strip a minimum wage hike from the "must pass" reconciliation bill from earlier this year
As righteous as it would be to see Manchin and Sinema get publicly shat on, yelling at the hostage takers usually isn't an effective strategy for releasing hostages.

Manchin and Sinema could and would gladly tank this bill. Let's get in more Dems so Manchin and Sinema don't matter. Also primary Sinema, Arizona can do better.
 
May 26, 2018
24,109


Biden is going on a trip and Pelosi is telling people to not embarrass Biden by voting it down,

This is giving me no confidence on anybody wanting to get stuff done.


"Pelosi also said she would put the infrastructure bill on the floor today and hold the vote open to get the bill through. When Rep. Schakowsky asked about Sens. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, she said take the president at his word he will get the larger bill through"

That shit is just hilarious. Pelosi on the "don't pass reconciliation" train too? The fuck?
 
Aug 12, 2019
5,159
So you want to threaten the only Dem Senator who could actually win a statewide race in the reddest state of country with a primary during the most tense part of negotiations for a bill that needs his vote?

Ok..

Sounds like a plan...

Basically, you dont have shit.

Manchin can't win his seat again or any seat in West Virginia. If he wasn't such a gigantic vain asshole, he'd recognize that and decide to retire to a cozy post congress existence with his million of dollars and let enough stuff through so Dems can actually win seats they might actually keep longterm. Dems sacrificing PA, WI, NC, and other states for a West Virginia seat they have almost zero chance of holding as is, is beyond dumb. Him being in a super red state practically does not matter at this point since it's a guaranteed loss in 2024 anyway.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,545
New York
The Progressives shouldn't take any of this shit on faith and wait until Sinema/Manchin are on board.
 

Warhawk4Ever

Banned
Jun 23, 2021
2,514
Okay, she just naive as all hell, then. "Blindly trust Sinema and Manchin to be swayed in uncharacteristic ways guys, please, you gotta believe me!"

Perhaps, just perhaps...Pelosi has larger things to worry about as speaker of the house...and has more knowledge and experience in the ramifications of voting down such a bill before Biden lands than you do...

But sure, life is just so simple, black and white, binary. You know all.
 

Rondre Tibet

Member
Feb 13, 2018
474
This is what's in the framework:

  • Universal preschool for all 3- and 4-year olds, which is funded for at least 6 years.
  • Subsidized child care that caps what parents pay at 7% of their income, which is funded for 6 years.
  • A one-year extension of the current expanded Child Tax Credit, which impacts approximately 35 million households nationwide.
  • Expanded tax credits for 10 years for utility and residential clean energy, including electric vehicles.
  • Extend the current, pandemic-related Affordable Care Act subsidies for 4 years.
  • Allow Medicare to cover the cost of hearing.
Thanks for the info
I'll take that.
 

Warhawk4Ever

Banned
Jun 23, 2021
2,514
Ooh, now we're getting personal. Nice.
Personal? Stop. You act like this whole thing is black and white. That either Pelosi is 100% a progressive or she is 100% undercutting. She is SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE. Not some random congress woman. She has to worry about the moderates, the progressives, the independents equally for 2022. AND she has to worry about Biden.

Stop for a minute and realize life isnt always black and white.
 

daschysta

Member
Mar 24, 2019
899
BIf needs to be killed until reconcillation is also being voted on, at the least. We can't give up even that little bit of leverage. Fuck Pelosi.
 

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,576
Bully pulpit. Do you?

Part of the president's job is keeping his party in line. This takes precedence over an international trip.

mans he can't make said phone calls from AF 1?

you do realize diplomacy is part of his job as well, right? An very important part at that.

outside of absolute emergency he doesn't need to be present at the White House for domestic issues. He's capable of using the bully pulpit from pretty much anywhere, or sending staff or the VP to do stuff in person.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,904
Personal? Stop. You act like this whole thing is black and white. That either Pelosi is 100% a progressive or she is 100% undercutting. She is SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE. Not some random congress woman. She has to worry about the moderates, the progressives, the independents equally for 2022. AND she has to worry about Biden.

Stop for a minute and realize life isnt always black and white.
You either have healthcare or you don't.

You can afford your pills for Alzheimer's or you can't.

These matters are black and white.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,481
Phoenix
Unfortunately many in this thread dont give a shit. Dems are on the brink of spending $5 trillion dollars in 10 months that primarily go to help the poor and middle class with only 50 Senators.

Doesnt matter though, take down the Dem party /s.
the thing is though, what you are seeing is going to be a popular opinion going in to midterms whether it is justified or not. People are going to remember what could have been, and not care as much about what is now, especially if what got cut would have helped them out directly like paid leave.

This is mostly on a handful of Democratic senators, but, Biden ultimately will take the blame. It's a win, but it feels like a win for a war that's going to be lost.

I'll vote because Republicans scare the shit out of me, but I can understand the people that are emotionally drained and can no longer stand to get out there and vote for them. If enough people feel like they do the elections are lost and I don't see what can be done about it. This adminsitration has been full of empty promises or promises that fall way short.
 

Warhawk4Ever

Banned
Jun 23, 2021
2,514
You either have healthcare or you don't.

You can afford your pills for Alzheimer's or you can't.

These matters are black and white.

and just because you can't, doesnt mean millions of others arent being helped by a piece of legislation...

AGAIN, I owe a shit ton in student loans that wont benefit from forgiveness if bident authorizes it, but guess what, I'm not sitting here bitching at said possible forgiveness being nothing and pushing for it to tank.

Why? Because I actually realize legislation may help others and not me and still support others being helped. But hey, thats just me...
 

spootime

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,438
the thing is though, what you are seeing is going to be a popular opinion going in to midterms whether it is justified or not. People are going to remember what could have been, and not care as much about what is now, especially if what got cut would have helped them out directly like paid leave.

This is mostly on a handful of Democratic senators, but, Biden ultimately will take the blame. It's a win, but it feels like a win for a war that's going to be lost.

I'll vote because Republicans scare the shit out of me, but I can understand the people that are emotionally drained and can no longer stand to get out there and vote for them. If enough people feel like they do the elections are lost and I don't see what can be done about it. This adminsitration has been full of empty promises or promises that fall way short.

Yes, this is absolutely a messaging fail. I posted this in the other thread but instead of having a unified push that emphasized 5 TRILLION in legislation in just 10 months, we have a bill start started at 6.5 trillion (obviously ridiculous number) and then slowly sunk to a more realistic 1.75.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,481
Phoenix
Manchin can't win his seat again or any seat in West Virginia. If he wasn't such a gigantic vain asshole, he'd recognize that and decide to retire to a cozy post congress existence with his million of dollars and let enough stuff through so Dems can actually win seats they might actually keep longterm. Dems sacrificing PA, WI, NC, and other states for a West Virginia seat they have almost zero chance of holding as is, is beyond dumb. Him being in a super red state practically does not matter at this point since it's a guaranteed loss in 2024 anyway.
I really don't feel like it has much to do with Manchin being vain, he's doing things that are in his own interest and the people like him. He's protecting his own. He's big money and coal. I think Manchin knows he's finished but he's going to make sure his wealthy friends and family keep on being well off.
 

Warhawk4Ever

Banned
Jun 23, 2021
2,514
I have never thought this. Until Pelosi tried to force this shit today, I never believed Pelosi was against the bill. Now I'm not so sure and you come quoting me like I'm losing faith in a shared religion.

Shes against the bill because she believes it's pivotal to pass infrastructure before Biden leaves in order to show the world he got something? Ok...
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,398
So what, exactly can they do, given their lack of majorities in many states and two turncoats who block progress on the national level?

There have been many reports that suggest that said two turncoats are not the only ones who feel that way, it's just that other members of the party let those two take the heat since two votes is more than enough. So they're not necessarily turncoats. As for what can be done, either whipping those two members or executive orders. Either way, it's not the people's fault, no matter how much liberals who stan the Democratic Party want you to believe it is. As long as the party is accountable primarily to the donor class instead of the public, they will keep intentionally screwing over people and then also try to save face by making it look like they're incompetent or divided. The members of the party who have power are all competent and united, they're just not united in favor of the people.