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CNBC: Democrats set to cut free community college, climate program from Biden’s economic plan as they trim price tag (UP: paid family leave too)

ChippyTurtle

Banned
Oct 13, 2018
4,773
Progressives should hold the bill in the House, keep the two track going. I'm sad the bill won't include a bunch of good stuff but the childcare will still help tons of people.

The bad thing about the big pricetags they hit both ways, big spending that republicans can use to say we are spending too much and the average voter largely only pays attention when stuff actually happens.

In that sense, the reality is most people don't expect anything good to come from government. Promises mean jack nothing. So the idea that the failure to do all they promised will hurt in the coming elections, I doubt it. Now things like passing the CTC and childcare expansion will benefit tons of people.
 
Chindogg

Chindogg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,246
East Lansing, MI
cloudy said:
Democrats didn't win enough seats in Congress to achieve all his goals. That is how our system works.
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They fucking promised checks if they got 50. Got record numbers in Georgia to win both seats. They promised a ton of shit if they got 50.

Fuck outta here with that "didn't win enough seats" bullshit. They asked and people delivered. Then they didn't deliver what was promised. That's a failure on them.
 
Jceaz

Jceaz

Member
Oct 30, 2017
388
The Brainworms level takes I'm seeing from dems insisting the house vote on infrastructure today really has me questioning motives and intelligence.
 

Deleted member 10560

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,135
I don't know why but whenever the Democrats need to get it together for the betterment of society all I hear is the Curb Your Enthusiasm theme song.
 
Keasar

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
Mr_Antimatter said:
it's clearly not. Get enough democrats in seats and they can do something.

but instead voters throw up their hands and scream when a party not in power can overcome the blockage of the one who is. Put more democrats in local seats, fight for those seats that aren't gerrymandered and fight the disinformation the gop spreads to suppress left wing votes.

don't ignore the down ballots, vote every seat every time.
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How many democrats is 'enough' then? How many seats do they need to control to finally be able to do something meaningful? Do they need at least 51%? 60%? 70%? 99%? At which threshold is it 'enough'? Cause I swear I have seen this fucking song and dance for 20+ years yet somehow "we just don't have enough" is the same act every time.

I don't honestly think there is a point of "Now we control enough of the house and senate."

They are democrats, they will fuck over the general population regardless to serve their corporate backers.
 
The Albatross

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,475
samoyed said:
I tried. I tried to honestly engage with this nonsense for the last 4 years. You know what I got out of it? However many thousands of words typed, a lot of stressful nights looking up stats and laws, and bubkis.

Centrists of the 'vote blue no matter who' variety are no longer worth my time. Joker mode now. I 'even bother' because it is entertaining. Entertainment actually is worth my time. It is the only worthwhile outcome of engaging in modern US political discourse.
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I'm disappointed because I can genuinely say I've learned from your perspective over the years on this site and the last one, like, there will be a lot of shit posters who don't care about an issue and want to win edge points, but your posts usually didn't do that ... Or at least, you always had way more good posts to shitpost ratio (we all shitpost, you'd do it waaay less than most, less than me for sure). I never agreed with what I interpreted was an accellerationist perspective, but at least I always appreciated your left/demsoc perspective and while I'm pretty firmly a liberal, I think having a reasoned demsoc perspective has probably turned me further left. I voted/campaigned for Elizabeth Warren in 2020 and she was my top choice, and while I'd like to think I supported her because of some ... I dunno, internal wisdom or something, I think it's the influence of people to the left of Liz Warren (As well as really liking her as my senator) that pulled me over to her. That without being exposed to solid arguments from demsoc/left from you and others I wouldn't have voted the way I did.

But if the entertainment value you glean from trolling or shitposting is worth more to you and your mental health (and really I kinda doubt that you believe that, but rather you're using nhilistic/cynical shitposting/trolling as anestesia, because the reality that the affect of thousands of pages of posts has nudged one single person [me] to vote for a safe Liberal [Liz Warren] vs. a safe Neoliberal [I dunno, Seth Moulton or something, not that I supported him but just as an example], might be depressing), then I guess at the end of the day we're all selfishly looking out for ourselves and that is a logical position. I think if the mental value ("entertainment") you get from shitposting/trolling is worth more to you than the dignity of the human beings that you're interacting with, then it makes sense, I'm disappointed, but -- once again -- I see and agree with your logic.
 
Diarrhea Day-Lewis

Diarrhea Day-Lewis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,853
inner-G said:
They cut out all the meaningful stuff and now it's mostly handouts for people with kids
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Omg wow what an awful way to view assistance with out of control child care, elderly care costs and the lack of pre-k for better development of children. I get it that it sucks if it doesn't benefit you but this will single handily make my life substantially better, even without the CTC

this doesn't just benefit young kids too (well it won't benefit anyone as much with 5+ year olds today) but the pre-k will help so much when todays infants and young children get older due to helping with their developmental
 
Ripcord

Ripcord

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,808
rjinaz said:
Not that I advocate for violence, but, confronting Sinema in person such as at the airport just to talk to her, is a step too far for many that identify as Democrats. So, obviously no.
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I'd probably advocate for violence here and elsewhere if I thought it would help. I mean, it's ultimately inescapable and I do wish that my side had violence on the table as an option, but they don't, so we'll be met with violence on the other sides terms eventually (and honestly already are/have been).

People on my team upset that we'd violate the sanctity of the bathroom to corner our enemies is the perfect example of how screwed we are. Meanwhile the other team celebrates, in public, people like Rittenhouse. He's gonna serve as reinforcement for the template for the other side. Cross state lines, murder your rivals, walk free. At least we can take solace in the fact that we were against violating the privacy of those that wish to see us dead. That's almost as good as living at the end of the day.
 
PrivateWHudson

PrivateWHudson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,215
Keasar said:
How many democrats is 'enough' then? How many seats do they need to control to finally be able to do something meaningful? Do they need at least 51%? 60%? 70%? 99%? At which threshold is it 'enough'? Cause I swear I have seen this fucking song and dance for 20+ years yet somehow "we just don't have enough" is the same act every time.

I don't honestly think there is a point of "Now we control enough of the house and senate."

They are democrats, they will fuck over the general population regardless to serve their corporate backers.
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They had 59 and couldn't get a public option into the ACA.

Edit: Actually 60, but only 59 would vote for it with the public option. Or so they say. If Liberman wasn't the heel, I'm sure someone else would have taken the position.
 
inner-G

inner-G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,473
PNW
yogurt said:
Healthcare expansions, support for "people with kids" and renewable energy support aren't "meaningful?!"

What
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I'm sure Elon Musk will like the extra money he makes from those EV tax credits, but it's not the same as directly investing in green infrastructure.

The medicare changes are improvements, but nowhere near what we need to do to fix our system. It's a band aid, not a fix.

I would trade everything in this bill for green infrastructure investments and a billionaire tax.
 

Deleted member 1088

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,759
I'm frankly exhausted and distressed about all these misogynist incels attacking Kyrsten. She's blue. She's on our side. Some of you need to grow up, even a high school government class would help you tremendously <3
 
yogurt

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,185
inner-G said:
I'm sure Elon Musk will like the extra money he makes from those EV tax credits, but it's not the same as directly investing in green infrastructure.

The medicare changes are improvements, but nowhere near what we need to do to fix our system. It's a band aid, not a fix.

I would trade everything in this bill for green infrastructure investments and a billionaire tax.
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But...as of now both of those things are in the bill:


See pages 1&3.
 
Mr_Antimatter

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,576
Keasar said:
How many democrats is 'enough' then? How many seats do they need to control to finally be able to do something meaningful? Do they need at least 51%? 60%? 70%? 99%? At which threshold is it 'enough'? Cause I swear I have seen this fucking song and dance for 20+ years yet somehow "we just don't have enough" is the same act every time.

I don't honestly think there is a point of "Now we control enough of the house and senate."

They are democrats, they will fuck over the general population regardless to serve their corporate backers.
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you need enough to ether kill the filibuster (and members willing to do that) or render it useless via a super majority.

neither of which they have had in decades. Closest we came was Obama's first term, and it was Liberman who acted as kingmaker due to being the needed vote to avoid a filibuster.
 
aidangs

aidangs

Member
Jan 8, 2019
537
Tall4Life said:
I'm frankly exhausted and distressed about all these misogynist incels attacking Kyrsten. She's blue. She's on our side. Some of you need to grow up, even a high school government class would help you tremendously <3
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Someone who staunchly opposes lowering drug prices while raking in huge amounts of money from pharma companies is not "on my side" in any conceivable sense of that phrase.
 

ChippyTurtle

Banned
Oct 13, 2018
4,773
Tall4Life said:
I'm frankly exhausted and distressed about all these misogynist incels attacking Kyrsten. She's blue. She's on our side. Some of you need to grow up, even a high school government class would help you tremendously <3
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I know your saying this in jest, I'm literally appalled that a former green party member could be this shit. If anyone has the cred to be a annoying progressive fucking up the corporate Dems it's the green party yet Sinema is this....whatever the fuck she is.
 
rjinaz

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,545
Phoenix
aidangs said:
Someone who staunchly opposes lowering drug prices while raking in huge amounts of money from pharma companies is not "on my side" in any conceivable sense of that phrase.
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Opposes paid leave. Opposes minimum wage increase. Buddies up with Conservatives while not even taking the calls of Democrats and refuses to talk with her voters.

Lol Sinema is not Blue. Sinema isn't even a Democrat. She's in a party of one, Sinema. I will be so glad to vote her ass out.
 
Nude_Tayne

Nude_Tayne

Member
Jan 8, 2018
3,694
earth
Tall4Life said:
I'm frankly exhausted and distressed about all these misogynist incels attacking Kyrsten. She's blue. She's on our side. Some of you need to grow up, even a high school government class would help you tremendously <3
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Is this a joke post? What does her gender have to do with anything? What does her being "blue" have to do with anything? She's a sociopath who is aiding and abetting a fascist party and fighting against desperately needed change. I hope this is a joke post.
 
Meatfist

Meatfist

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,311
Tall4Life said:
I'm frankly exhausted and distressed about all these misogynist incels attacking Kyrsten. She's blue. She's on our side. Some of you need to grow up, even a high school government class would help you tremendously <3
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I went through an entire rainbow of emotions reading this post, and for that I commend you
 
Mr_Antimatter

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,576
PrivateWHudson said:
They had 59 and couldn't get a public option into the ACA.

Edit: Actually 60, but only 59 would vote for it with the public option. Or so they say. If Liberman wasn't the heel, I'm sure someone else would have taken the position.
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note how the voters reacted: they gave the house and senate to the gop, who slammed the breaks on any progress and cost us the Supreme Court and numerous judges.
 
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ChippyTurtle

Banned
Oct 13, 2018
4,773
Mr_Antimatter said:
mans note how the voters reacted: they gave the house and senate to the gop, who slammed the breaks on any progress and cost us the Supreme Court and numerous judges.
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Note how they reacted in 2018, gave the house back to Dems. Fucking took 6 years for voters to realize "maybe Dems didn't pass utter trash that deserves to be repealed"

Honest to God, we might lose the house in 2022 and maybe in 6 years we can have voters vote to keep Dems in so republicans can't cancel universal pre-K or some shit.
 
PrivateWHudson

PrivateWHudson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,215
ChippyTurtle said:
Note how they reacted in 2018, gave the house back to Dems. Fucking took 6 years for voters to realize "maybe Dems didn't pass utter trash that deserves to be repealed"

Honest to God, we might lose the house in 2022 and maybe in 6 years we can have voters vote to keep Dems in so republicans can't cancel universal pre-K or some shit.
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The way the ACA is structured, it fucks those with employer healthcare and doesn't have a mechanism to give them any relief. It took 6 years for everyone to acclimate to high deductibles. Also mandating people buy in to shitty private plans was terrible as well.
 
Chindogg

Chindogg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,246
East Lansing, MI
PrivateWHudson said:
The way the ACA is structured, it fucks those with employer healthcare and doesn't have a mechanism to give them any relief. It took 6 years for everyone to acclimate to high deductibles. Also mandating people buy in to shitty private plans was terrible as well.
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Yup. The ACA was always a shitpile disguised as a blessing because it forced you to go through private insurance that never competed in the first place.
 

ChippyTurtle

Banned
Oct 13, 2018
4,773
louisacommie said:
I think you remember incorrectly

What actually happened was smart sensible centrist dems made the affordable care act sensible and in 2010 voters rewarded the democrats for there sensible compromises
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Oh that weak ass sauce in the ACA fired up Republicans so fucking much, I very much doubt if the amazing full scale plan got passed, it wouldn't have been any different the reaction from voters.
 
cloudy

cloudy

Member
Nov 10, 2017
3,256
Chindogg said:
They fucking promised checks if they got 50. Got record numbers in Georgia to win both seats. They promised a ton of shit if they got 50.

Fuck outta here with that "didn't win enough seats" bullshit. They asked and people delivered. Then they didn't deliver what was promised. That's a failure on them.
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They did deliver the checks. Again, Biden cannot pass legislation without Manchin and Sinema. That's just the facts.
 
louisacommie

louisacommie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,601
New Jersey
ChippyTurtle said:
Oh that weak ass sauce in the ACA fired up Republicans so fucking much, I very much doubt if the amazing full scale plan got passed, it wouldn't have been any different the reaction from voters.
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There's no way the democrats could have lost worse so if like if actual universal Healthcare had passed 2010 would probably be the same

But 2012 would probably have more positive momentum
With an actual universal easy to understand not complicated very obvouis benefit to people having been done by Obama

Now if only actually keeping people in there houses could also be done in this timeline

In order to accomplish this it first aquire intent at the top and not just some guy who wants to be America's professor and prestige tv drama protagonist

Then at the very least reducing the filibuster to 55 votes atleast at the time if not abolishing
 
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