That's really the crux of allyur the "give them a chance to redeem themselves" stuff. At the end of the day people just want to do the apology tour, if that, and want the "problem" to go away forever. The hardpill these guys need to swallow is especially when they abuse their positions of power, they aren't owed getting those positions back.
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Where? Cameron Stewart disappeared for years without saying shit. Ellis as told by his 100 accusers couldn't even complete the basics of what he agreed to with them. You don't have to give these dudes cover of saying they may have apologised in private or are doing other things.
Also if they apologised, it's not on the abused to accept it. The abuser doesn't get to decide that.
I agree completely with you. No one is owed the position they were in because they said sorry (most don't). Go work a job that's not public facing and let your victims actually heal. I'll be over here supporting those victims any way I can.
It shouldn't be a hot take to say that you don't think a person accused of sexually abusing/grooming an underage person shouldn't be allowed to return to their position like nothing happened because you said sorry or whatever.
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Yep. Why it's almost like there should be consequences for their actions! The only people who ruined these dudes careers are themselves, no one else.
I've seen my fair share of discourses over "cancel culture" for a long time now, and from what I've seen, yes, if you get "cancelled" there probably will always be a number of people who won't be willing to forgive you no matter what you do. But at the same time, there's probably just as many, if not more, "anti-cancel culture" people out there who are willing to forgive you even if you do absolutely nothing, and who are willing to shit on the people who accused you in the first place. I mean, that's the reason why so many people manage to pull off the "anti-cancel culture/anti-woke/anti-PC" turn in the first place.
I think if Piskor had just put out the first part of his note, where he explains why he was messaging that teenager in the first place, a lot of people probably would have been satisfied with that. Not everyone would have been, and I wouldn't have been, but a lot of people would have been. And who knows, maybe his peers would have accepted just that. After all, I've seen this shit happen before, and I've seen plenty of people's peers, and people in the "peanut gallery," be satisfied with "I'm sorry you were offended"-level apologies in the past.
I think this is part of the problem: dudes either say nothing and disappear for a while, or they say "I'm sorry you misinterpreted what I was trying to say," they think that counts as a sufficient apology even if none of the victims are satisfied with that (but you better believe the "anti-cancel culture" people are satisfied with that), and then they get mad when everybody doesn't embrace them with open arms. Frankly, I think that if these people did put in the work in their personal lives to try to make amends and set things right with their victims, then even their victims would probably be willing to publicly defend their character if the occasion called for it. But the problem is, they do nothing, they think that counts as "the work," and then they get mad when not everybody can chill with them anymore.
Frankly, when this situation broke out, I was very skeptical over the possibility that Piskor would apologize. Like I said, I listened to his channel for a long time, from almost the beginning, and in summary, my problem with Piskor was this: over the years that I listened to the channel, Piskor had more smoke, and more contempt, for people he perceived as "jobbers," like "Kayfabe-ian Nicieza" and "Scott Jobdell," and people in the "Twitter mob," who would dare to call out R. Crumb for being a racist creep, than he ever did for a dude like Dave Sim, who has publicly admitted to grooming a child, even after EVS wouldn't talk to Sim. And why? Well, at least Sim and Crumb could draw good, while Nicieza and Lobdell were guilty of the crime of writing shitty X-Men comics. So yes, I will admit to being someone who would was ready to be skeptical of an apology from Piskor. But also, that does not mean I could not have been swayed, if Piskor had at least tried to reconcile with the girl he had been messaging. But now, because Piskor decided to take extreme measures to get out of this situation, we'll never know for sure if he could have squared the situation or not. As cynical as I can be, I wish he could've.
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"Defined by a mistake you made"
=
Committing multiple multiple acts of sexual assault and harrassment
Huh
Edit: sorry, but if you've literally never posted in any comic thread, and your first post is defending sexual abusers, that's a red flag
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Was gonna say, we've had one or two people post here that I've never seen before and it's only to defend this stuff post Piskor.
I don't think anyone in this thread has defended Piskor.
You can think Piskor did really bad things, and that he should have had major career consequences while still lamenting the fact that he's dead and still thinking that social media can be overwhelming for a lot of people. You can also think that his decision to kill himself in the face of the social media stuff was over the top and illogical.
The idea that we have to choose a side seems kind of silly to me. Piskor was bad and caused harm.
It wasn't to the point, IMO, that death should have been the outcome.
Social media can be a force for good in terms of outing people, but can also be overwhelming for a lot of people and lead to suicide (many who didn't do anything wrong, unlike Piskor). Even a dogpile on Era, which is tiny in the grand scheme of things, can feel overwhelming at times. I've seen NFL players, for example, get a metric ton of shit for something as simple as dropping a ball. Lots of people making death threats, @ing them with hate, @ing teammates while shitting on them, etc...
Public facing creators choosing his side, I suspect, is more about their exposure to online hate than it is that they're OK with Piskor being a creep.
In this thread I get the sense that anything short of dancing on his grave is misconstrued as taking his side, being against his victims, etc...
You can think Piskor did really bad things, and that he should have had major career consequences while still lamenting the fact that he's dead and still thinking that social media can be overwhelming for a lot of people. You can also think that his decision to kill himself in the face of the social media stuff was over the top and illogical.
The idea that we have to choose a side seems kind of silly to me. Piskor was bad and caused harm.
It wasn't to the point, IMO, that death should have been the outcome.
Social media can be a force for good in terms of outing people, but can also be overwhelming for a lot of people and lead to suicide (many who didn't do anything wrong, unlike Piskor). Even a dogpile on Era, which is tiny in the grand scheme of things, can feel overwhelming at times. I've seen NFL players, for example, get a metric ton of shit for something as simple as dropping a ball. Lots of people making death threats, @ing them with hate, @ing teammates while shitting on them, etc...
Public facing creators choosing his side, I suspect, is more about their exposure to online hate than it is that they're OK with Piskor being a creep.
In this thread I get the sense that anything short of dancing on his grave is misconstrued as taking his side, being against his victims, etc...
I really don't know what it is about Piskor in particular that brings the defense force out. He made some good comics now and then, but that doesn't cancel out the harm he did to others.
I don't post here a lot, but I've been around for awhile and probably posted in comics threads in the past. As someone who LOVED CK I definitely ultimately have come down on the "fuck Ed piskor" side, but I have to admit that it's been a hard couple of weeks.
I feel like everything has happened so suddenly. Like I didn't have time to process that one of my favorite content creators was a creep before I also had to process that he killed himself. It sucks and I'm deeply disappointed in the way that he chose to name people in the letter. I don't think he was beyond redemption if he had put in the work. I would have been the first one to watch his videos if he did. But I get why emotions are running high and everyone wants to make their opinion heard.
Anyway, just my two cents. Always believe the women. Ed did this himself, but I am feeling some sadness mixed in with my anger.
I had to make a new account after losing losing the old details after having a break.
Plus I doubt anyone wants to talk about Sandman Mystery Theatre.
This is 100% what I'm getting at.
I loved Sandman Mystery Theatre (the Wagner one). I haven't been reading the new one yet, but have been buying it and will get to it eventually.
I took the gamble buying the Sandman Mystery Theatre compendium in the hope that the entire run will be collected finally. Alas nothing volume hasn't been announced yet. I'm the same with the new Wesley Dodds Sandman, my over comic reading hasn't been great recently, but it's probably better now it's all out.
I don't understand how that's still a thing where they only publish one part of an old and finite run.
So the original TPB release, one or two arcs per trade, managed to collect the 52 out of 70 issues.
Then DC did bigger collections collecting 12 issues at a time. Only 2 were released, so only 24 out of 70 issues.
The first compendium that released last year collected 36 out of 70 issues.
Yet other series have dozens and dozens of releases.
The moment the next Starlin book comes around all of these shenanigans will be retconned anyway. Literally none of it matters I'm 100% sure.
DC screwing both trade and compendium collectors. That's pretty impressive mismanagement.
It's all based on sales, if the first volume has low orders then they don't bother with the rest.
I get the logic, but I have to imagine that once customers catch on it'll make them reluctant to pick up part 1 if future parts are uncertain, which makes it a bit of a self inflicted issue, IMO.
I think this'll be a long shot, but out of curiosity, has anybody here read Michael Moorcock's Multiverse, the 12 issue series DC put out as part of their Helix line in the late 90s?
Sometimes I like to plug in artists' names in Previewsworld's Search function, to see if any artists I like have a book coming out I may have missed. Yesterday I was doing that, and I found out that Titan reprinted the series last year as part of their "Michael Moorcock Library." I'm thinking of picking the books up, because I'm a fan of Walt Simonson and his art, but I've never read anything from Michael Moorcock, and I've never really seen people talk about the series online, so I was just wondering if anyone could vouch for it.
Sometimes I like to plug in artists' names in Previewsworld's Search function, to see if any artists I like have a book coming out I may have missed. Yesterday I was doing that, and I found out that Titan reprinted the series last year as part of their "Michael Moorcock Library." I'm thinking of picking the books up, because I'm a fan of Walt Simonson and his art, but I've never read anything from Michael Moorcock, and I've never really seen people talk about the series online, so I was just wondering if anyone could vouch for it.
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Yup it's this. They have no reason to push on releasing something when sales show that it's not wanted.
I noticed that with the first dude I'd never seen before. Super weird. Welcome to the communit--you what??
Started the current Star Wars on-going book by Soule. Its set right after Empire Strikes Back, which is only like 6 months to a year iirc. But hey they finally dropped Larroca and Siaz is on the book, the current Captain America artist. Much better than Larroca of course, but pretty similar to the Cassiday Star Wars stuff. Soule seems to capture the characters really well, but not much happens really at all in this first arc. Not like the big push they had that first year or so with Aaron and Gillen, although I havent gotten to the big crossover event yet lol.
Might try the Poe Dameron comic next. Been in a Star Wars mood. Re-watched some of the new films and they still dont do much for me. The last one is an improvement, but its too late by then. Rogue One and Andor captured what I wanted to see more of and I wish some of the comics took on that sort of tone. Rather than just doing the good guys, bad guys, and bounty hunter books.
Might try the Poe Dameron comic next. Been in a Star Wars mood. Re-watched some of the new films and they still dont do much for me. The last one is an improvement, but its too late by then. Rogue One and Andor captured what I wanted to see more of and I wish some of the comics took on that sort of tone. Rather than just doing the good guys, bad guys, and bounty hunter books.
Why are all the Italian artists at Marvel so insanely good? Federico Vicintini is just cooking on the Miles book.
But there's also Marco Chechetto, Valerio Schiti, Eleonora Carlini (I know she's not for everyone but I love her wild style), Carola Borelli currently on Spider Woman, Matteo Lolli, Luciano Vecchio (who actually I don't care for as much, but other people seem to), and that's just off the top of my head. It's like it all started with Sara Pichelli and Stefano Caselli and went from there.
But there's also Marco Chechetto, Valerio Schiti, Eleonora Carlini (I know she's not for everyone but I love her wild style), Carola Borelli currently on Spider Woman, Matteo Lolli, Luciano Vecchio (who actually I don't care for as much, but other people seem to), and that's just off the top of my head. It's like it all started with Sara Pichelli and Stefano Caselli and went from there.
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It's like DC and their Spanish talent. Jorge Jimenez, Bruno Redondo, Guillem March, Tomeu Morey, Jorge Fornes, Belen Ortega, Javi Fernandez, Daniel Sampere, Tirso Cons and many more that I'm forgetting
It's good that we live in an era in which artists from around the world can be more easily discovered by writers and editors at the big two. I have to imagine that there'd be no way to have decent art, let alone good art, on so many books from the big two without the ability to easily scout talent from around the world.
I'm reluctant to wade into this again, but as one of those people who hadn't posted before, I just want to reiterate that I agree that it was a really, really bad way for me to enter the thread.
I was set off by a particular comment that rubbed me the wrong way and, having some distance from the interaction, I see now I was being overly sensitive and uncool. I brought a lot of my own baggage about mental health and suicide to a topic that I most likely shouldn't have. I'm embarrassed about my interactions with Freezasaurus and its doubly embarrassing because I'm not even really a Piskor fan - I only watched a couple eps of CF, haven't read any of the dude's comics (as an X-Men fan, was interested in Grand Design, but never got to it and probably never will now). I dunno, that's just not how I like to interact with people online, so I definitely regret it for whatever that's worth.
I'm also sensitive about the topic, and I certainly wish, despite everything, that he didn't kill himself. Let's start over, and I hope you'll feel comfortable posting in this thread going forward.
I'm sorry as well for starting things off on the wrong foot, I'm sensitive when it comes to shitty men.
That's fair and understandable. I don't like making people feel bad about genuinely awful things, and I can see how and why my earlier posts would not be received well. And I don't want to contribute to that kind of vibe, so again, I apologize.
Thank you for saying that, I really appreciate it.
And, just so all my posts in this thread aren't about this stuff...here are some other comics-related thoughts...
I'm not super deep into new comics like I used to be, the newest things I've picked up and read are:
Void Rivals #8 - I'm really enjoying this series, but man, I kinda wish I waited until there were a few trades or one of those big compendiums out. Reading it monthly is rough.
Napalm Lullaby #1 - not sure about this one yet...it didn't really grab me. The art is nice, though.
Hellblazer: Dead in America #1 - picked this one up without really knowing much about the character aside from his appearances in Sandman and Saga of the Swamp thing, but I dug it. Really enjoyed the dialogue and got a kick out of the ending. Looking forward to reading the second issue!
Spurrier wrote an earlier brief run on Hellblazer, so if you're digging the new series it might be worth checking the other one as well.
Definitely check out old Hellblazers if you dig this new run, it's a great "reboot" of the old Vertigo series. Very dark stuff though, most of the time.
I actually just saw the Piskor news in the middle of the night last night. I guess I was really out of the loop all last week. It really sucks. I kinda have some really mixed feeling on it, but I guess there's no need to rake the muck back up when it seems to be settling. He was definitely a very talented person and I wish none of it happened.
Comics are depressing. I am leaving this community! But first,
My Issues This Week
My Issues This Week
Action Comics (2016) #1064: A: Sandoval Connecting
Amazing Spider-Man (2022) #47: E: Momoko
Batman and Robin (2023) #8: A: Di Meo
Napalm Lullaby #2: A: Bengal
Sinister Sons #3: A: Lafuente
Thundercats (2024) #3: A: Nakayama
Transformers (2023) #7: A: Johnson
Ultimate X-Men (2024) #2: A: Momoko
Thanks! I'm definitely curious about the previous series now, I may check them out when I get a chance. I also think this is the first thing I've read by Spurrier.
Gail is discussing some of the blowback she's receiving because the X-Books are leaving Krakoa. So now is the best time for my hot take: the second Hickman left, my interest in Krakoa left too. Yes I understand there are some talented creators who remained. I like Al Ewing more than Hickman, even. Nonetheless--Krakoa was Hickman's baby, it was meant to be his vision of the X-Men. Once he left, I didn't want what other writers could change the vision into. I wanted a new vision entirely. Back to basics makes sense for me.
View: https://twitter.com/comicsxf/status/1777429216763560002?s=46&t=woumKA_Tw38UJuhXf5zpyg
Announcement of announcements.
Fans getting upset when things resort to the status quo will never make sense to me. The vast majority of fans have been reading for a long time, so you'd think that by now they'd know that's just how the game works at the big two. You don't have characters last many decades without resetting them from time to time.
Krakoa stuff was great when it started and I loved that they were trying something new but the current X-Men books are a real slog right now and I can't wait for this to be over and am personally excited for the new stuff.
I actively hate the X-Men so my opinion's not worth much, but Krakoa just seemed like Genosha and Utopia again, but with a creepier angle to it. I don't think the nation itself had to go away, any more than I think Mutant Town had to, or Genosha needed to be genocided or... whatever the hell it was that made them abandon Utopia happened- having an independent mutant nation is an idea that they keep going back to because it's a neat idea.
Going all the way back to basics seems a little underwhelming, but as long as it feels like its a continuation of what came before instead of feeling like a weird reboot, it should be fine - and with Simone and MacKay behind the wheel I'm sure it'll be fine.
Going all the way back to basics seems a little underwhelming, but as long as it feels like its a continuation of what came before instead of feeling like a weird reboot, it should be fine - and with Simone and MacKay behind the wheel I'm sure it'll be fine.
I think that Immortal X-Men and X-Men Red were better than the previous Krakoa Era except for House of X/Power of X. I'm sad to see Krakoa go. I won't be reading Gail Simone's run while it's coming out because comics are expensive and I'd rather read something else than run-of-the-mill X-Men but I hope it's great.
I really like Spurrier. Recently he did "Damn them all" with Charlie Adlard which was great. In the Sandman universe, he wrote "The Dreaming" with Bilquis Evely that I enjoyed very much.
Speaking of Evely, Helen of Wyndhorn #1 was so beautiful ! Probably my favorite issue so far this year.
Favorite but not the best because, as we all know, Poison Ivy is still the best comic followed by Birds of Prey and Detective Comics.
I need to go back to Balatro, I'll post again in several months but I'll keep lurking.
I really like Spurrier. Recently he did "Damn them all" with Charlie Adlard which was great. In the Sandman universe, he wrote "The Dreaming" with Bilquis Evely that I enjoyed very much.
Speaking of Evely, Helen of Wyndhorn #1 was so beautiful ! Probably my favorite issue so far this year.
Favorite but not the best because, as we all know, Poison Ivy is still the best comic followed by Birds of Prey and Detective Comics.
I need to go back to Balatro, I'll post again in several months but I'll keep lurking.
Agreed. Immortal X-Men and X-Men Red were the best two books to lead an X-Men line since Uncanny and New Mutants in the 80s.
As if she stormed the Marvel offices and forced them to end Krakoa so that she can write a new Uncanny X-Men. 🙄
Can't people just be happy that Gail Simone is writing an ongoing X-Men series? I know I am.