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Gyro Zeppeli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,289
This is completely unacceptable, and if he had any shred of decency left in him, he would decide not to run.

The people on the internet, and in Congress, like Pelosi and Feinstein, who are still standing with Biden - I question their agenda. It makes me suspect that they don't want Bernie to increase his chances of winning the primary.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
This is completely unacceptable, and if he had any shred of decency left in him, he would decide not to run.

Agreed.

The people on the internet, and in Congress, like Pelosi and Feinstein, who are still standing with Biden - I question their agenda. It makes me suspect that they don't want Bernie to increase his chances of winning the primary.

Well, yeah, that's how the game is played. Biden has connections to them so they're going to protect him - unless he becomes politically radioactive then they'll throw him to the wolves. Political teams support their own members from reprisals, everyone does this.
 

SneerfulOwl

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,886
What are we going to do about Creepy Uncle Joe ...

Washington Post wrote an article about him being weird towards women 4 years ago. And that's their actual article title. But for some weird reason, many people just shrugged it off.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
That rules out Bernie Sanders too then, thankfully.
Care to elaborate on this one? Are you stealth implying that Sanders does some sort of creepy touching like this? Wtf?

I need reciepts on this one.

Or is this more "bitch eating crackers" because he is also old and white. (funny how being a Jewish man with family who died in the holocaust is no longer applicable).
 
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Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Yeah I was never on the Pelosi train to begin with and the last few months have only proved me right.

Except there was no challenger on the left with the strength to surpass her in the House. Whoever did show up she demolished, which was mostly from the right. You can't replace her with a candidate who doesn't exist.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
We can argue about Pelosi until we're blue in the face but she's leader for the time being. The issue right now is that Biden is being protected by the same people who would throw pretty much everyone else under the bus, simply because he is apart of democratic seniority.

Biden doing these things for years without reprisal doesn't suddenly make him immune to being called out now. Rather it should happen now that he's thinking about running, this along with everything else in his history should come out so people know exactly about him.

This is exactly why people were right to be so critical of him using Stacey Abhrams as a prop to shield him against criticism his team knew he would get on multiple fronts.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,268
Singapore

President Pelosi has spoken

She's absolutely right. 100%. It should not disqualify him from running because as we are already well aware, previous presidents have been inappropriate sexual predators, and is the current one, but that doesn't disqualify them. This is factual.

The question shouldn't be whether this disqualifies him to run for president. The question should be, does the Democratic Party feel they endorse this sort of candidate to represent them today, and be the face of their movement? I guess the answer to that then is also..... yes.

Except there was no challenger on the left with the strength to surpass her in the House. Whoever did show up she demolished, which was mostly from the right. You can't replace her with a candidate who doesn't exist.
The entire party being shit is probably a big factor as to why Trump got elected, and despite doing a shitshow of a job, the Democrats still couldn't clean-up like they hoped during the mid terms. How can people have faith in a party like this? Just because they're not the Republicans isn't enough for many people to just say "we should vote for them". The entire party needs a reboot, because while the Republicans being comically evil actually works for their base, it's a harder sell when you're supposed to be the "good guys" for your base but act like the less bad guys instead.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
The question duckie is whether or not it SHOULD be the standard for Presidents going forward in an era of the metoo movement and people trying to act like this stuff is serious in politic circles.


If there are people literally doing this shit, you have to treat them with the same kind of side eye you'd give anyone else who wasnt in a position of power
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
She's absolutely right. 100%. It should not disqualify him from running because as we are already well aware, previous presidents have been inappropriate sexual predators, and is the current one, but that doesn't disqualify them. This is factual.

The question shouldn't be whether this disqualifies him to run for president. The question should be, does the Democratic Party feel they endorse this sort of candidate to represent them today, and be the face of their movement? I guess the answer to that then is also..... yes.


The entire party being shit is probably a big factor as to why Trump got elected, and despite doing a shitshow of a job, the Democrats still couldn't clean-up like they hoped during the mid terms. How can people have faith in a party like this? Just because they're not the Republicans isn't enough for many people to just say "we should vote for them". The entire party needs a reboot, because while the Republicans being comically evil actually works for their base, it's a harder sell when you're supposed to be the "good guys" for your base but act like the less bad guys instead.
This is about moral disqualification, not legal, Christ this is not that difficult. At a minimum she should have the decency to denounce predatory behavior and blatant sexual harassment.

But I'm not surprised. Also not surprised by people deliberately misrepresenting her position as a legal argument.

Enough of this shit. Have some standards. Don't lower or erase them because other people are worse or get away with it.
 

MrMephistoX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,754
If today's Daily Show is any indication he's done...

We have standards despite Trump being way way way worse; See Franken, Albert.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,268
Singapore
When did I say that? I'm calling out bullshit partisan cover that damages the #MeToo movement. It's trash. That's the point.
I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying none of this is surprising to me and that the Democratic Party needs to be completely rebooted for there to be any hope of it having any sort of pretense of moral authority or actually fitting the liberal progressive norms of society today.

Edit: I think you misunderstood what I originally posted. I wasn't talking about legal disqualification at all. I was talking about social disqualification. I'm saying that she is absolutely right that it doesn't disqualify him because we have factually seen that presidential candidates can have that baggage (morally) and still win elections and be elected by the people in society. So in that sense, she's totally right that it doesn't mean he doesn't have a shot of winning. I'm saying we need to see that as her basically endorsing that sort of behavior and it condemns the Democrats as a collective because their mentality is this.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying none of this is surprising to me and that the Democratic Party needs to be completely rebooted for there to be any hope of it having any sort of pretense of moral authority or actually fitting the liberal progressive norms of society today.
When did I say I'm surprised or suggest the Democratic party doesn't need to change?

You've come a long way from "she's 100 percent right", lol

In like three posts
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying none of this is surprising to me and that the Democratic Party needs to be completely rebooted for there to be any hope of it having any sort of pretense of moral authority or actually fitting the liberal progressive norms of society today.

Edit: I think you misunderstood what I originally posted. I wasn't talking about legal disqualification at all. I was talking about social disqualification. I'm saying that she is absolutely right that it doesn't disqualify him because we have factually seen that presidential candidates can have that baggage (morally) and still win elections and be elected by the people in society. So in that sense, she's totally right that it doesn't mean he doesn't have a shot of winning. I'm saying we need to see that as her basically endorsing that sort of behavior and it condemns the Democrats as a collective because their mentality is this.
This is disingenuous bullshit. She was giving an opinion, not stating facts about whether or not America would technically elect Biden based on past or current officials.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,268
Singapore
This is disingenuous bullshit. She was giving an opinion, not stating facts about whether or not America would technically elect Biden.
I don't understand what you're trying to say anymore. You seem very angry. I just gave my opinion on the matter and I by no means support Pelosi. I'm giving commentary, not disingeuous bullshit. Sorry if you feel upset by that.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I don't understand what you're trying to say anymore. You seem very angry. I just gave my opinion on the matter and I by no means support Pelosi. I'm giving commentary, not disingeuous bullshit. Sorry if you feel upset by that.
She gave her moral opinion on if Biden should be disqualified ("I think"), and she said no, not at all. And you're somehow twisting that into "all she's saying is that people would elect him, so she's right".

When it's painfully clear that's not what she's saying, and even if it were, it's an excuse to not hold assholes like Biden accountable.
 

Deleted member 10551

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,031
The mistake is assuming that as a party, Democrats have morals.

Most progressives have morals. I'm not so certain about some establishment Dem politicians.

Pelosi's a damn effective congressional leader, and I do respect that, and we need that, but she's far from perfect.

We gotta be more than the party of not Donald Trump, that might win us 2020, but it won't give us the lasting change needed to save America. We have to be morally superior to the Republicans.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,268
Singapore
She gave her moral opinion on if Biden should be disqualified ("I think"), and she said no, not at all. And you're somehow twisting that into "all she's saying is that people would elect him, so she's right".

When it's painfully clear that's not what she's saying, and even if it were, it's an excuse to not hold assholes like Biden accountable.
Look, maybe I had a poor reading of her response, I'm certainly not intending to say any of the things you are saying. I'm not twisting anything, I read it as her saying that it doesn't disqualify him. It's not really a big enough deal for me to argue about this, so I'll just apologize and move on.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Look, maybe I had a poor reading of her response, I'm certainly not intending to say any of the things you are saying. I'm not twisting anything, I read it as her saying that it doesn't disqualify him. It's not really a big enough deal for me to argue about this, so I'll just apologize and move on.
Maybe it's not a big deal to you but people excusing sexual harassment/assault at the highest level of our government is disgusting and extremely damaging to those who have been victimized.

Some people don't have the luxury of apathy.
 
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Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
Old Democrats showing their ass. Good thing this is coming out early or else they would try to shove him down our throats (and still might).
But now he's apparently going to consider running. From that same account from earlier


Wow, people who work with him seem to be aware of this behavior. I'm guessing there's still a lot more to come. This guy is the biggest threat to the Democratic party's chances in 2020.
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
It's funny how the establishment Dems try to paint the left as trying to ruin the party with "purity test" when all the so-called "purity test" they do are basically "don't be a shitty human being". Not surprised that "don't be a sexual harasser" is yet another "purity test" the establishment Dems can't pass.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,268
Singapore
Maybe it's not a big deal to you but people excusing sexual harassment/assault at the highest level of our government is disgusting and extremely damaging to those who have been victimized.

Some people don't have the luxury of apathy.
Okay you seem to want to make this into a personal argument of sorts and now you're twisting my words, so that's pretty hurtful. When I said it's not a big deal, I mean that it's not a big deal to me to be wrong how I read her response to this. Not that I don't care about what she said. Everything I have said about this was negative and critical of the Democratic Party and my point to begin with in the original post was that it needs total reform. I'm not sure why you are so eager to attack me and make me out to be a bad guy when I already apologized.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
I'm still Pelosi train. I can recognize her political genius but she isn't infallible. She is still the best at what she does though and I'm glad she is on our side. Those that are already discounting her based on a few errors are on the political fringes for a reason.

Also Biden should not run as the Democratic base wouldn't stand for this shit.
 

MegaBeefBowl

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,890
Is this news? I thought the whole "Biden is a fucking creep" thing has been around for years. I distinctly remember montages of him smelling women's hair and getting uncomfortably close with them from years ago.

Not to say we shouldn't shit on the dude, because he deserves it, but it feels like the outrage is a little overdue here.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Okay you seem to want to make this into a personal argument of sorts and now you're twisting my words, so that's pretty hurtful. When I said it's not a big deal, I mean that it's not a big deal to me to be wrong how I read her response to this. Not that I don't care about what she said. Everything I have said about this was negative and critical of the Democratic Party and my point to begin with in the original post was that it needs total reform. I'm not sure why you are so eager to attack me and make me out to be a bad guy when I already apologized.
I'm trying to give you some perspective, so instead of tone policing (ie you're angry) and complaining about things being too personal, I suggest you listen. If it wasn't clear enough.. as a sexual abuse victim myself, I don't appreciate you brushing off your words as not being a big deal, because those misunderstandings lead to justification dismissing allegations/accusations. Her position isn't rare or exclusive to people in her particular position of power; everyday Joes in these threads often come in with "it doesn't matter" "everybody else does it" "it's not disqualifying" takes that perpetuate this systematic abuse.

Words matter and they do have an impact on how victimization/assault is perceived. I appreciate you apologizing, but I want to be as clear as possible about this because it's important.
How can she say that this disqualifies him when Trump is in office? Clearly it doesn't. That's how I interpreted her response.
Even if we take this (very fucking generous) interpretation of "I don't think it disqualifies him" as "it doesn't matter because Trump is in office", how on earth is that any less of a dismissal of Biden's actions and the efforts of the brave victims who have come forward?

It's very clear that she was giving her own opinion of his actions.. because.. she says it, multiple times:

Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Monday that a pair of allegations of inappropriate kissing and touching against former Vice President Joe Bidenshould "not at all" disqualify him from the 2020 race.

"No. No, I do not," Pelosi told reporters when asked if she thinks the allegations from two women are disqualifying.

"I don't think that this disqualifies him from being president," she said while walking to the House chamber. "Not at all."
How about something like "his actions are inappropriate, but it's up to voters to make that decision"? Or something that.. you know.. shows some sign that she gives a shit about the accusations and the abuse of power dynamics that plague victims?
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,180
Am I missing something?
It's an anti-Bernie person who seems to think his essay makes him creepy

Do you disagree that traditional gender roles and sexual power dynamics are messed up and when people internalize them they can manifest in strange, violent fantasies? Are you all about the continuation traditional gender roles? You just want women to stay in the kitchen?

See how stupid it is to strip things of context?
Basically what the essay was about
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
Is this news? I thought the whole "Biden is a fucking creep" thing has been around for years. I distinctly remember montages of him smelling women's hair and getting uncomfortably close with them from years ago.

Not to say we shouldn't shit on the dude, because he deserves it, but it feels like the outrage is a little overdue here.

When he's about to run on stage for President, its the perfect time.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,268
Singapore
I'm trying to give you some perspective, so instead of tone policing (ie you're angry) and complaining about things being too personal, I suggest you listen. If it wasn't clear enough.. as a sexual abuse victim myself, I don't appreciate you brushing off your words as not being a big deal, because those misunderstandings lead to justification dismissing allegations/accusations. Her position isn't rare or exclusive to people in her particular position of power; everyday Joes in these threads often come in with "it doesn't matter" "everybody else does it" "it's not disqualifying" takes that perpetuate this systematic abuse.

Words matter and they do have an impact on how victimization/assault is perceived. I appreciate you apologizing, but I want to be as clear as possible about this because it's important.
I hear you and I fully accept that my perspective is that of someone who has not suffered any sort of sexual abuse, and hence when I say things about the topic it might come off as insensitive because of my thoughtlessness. I came into this thread to shit on Pelosi, but the way I approached did not take into consideration that people who are already tired of how normalized her attitude is would find it deeply troubling that anyone would say that she is "right" in any sort of context. I apologize again and will be more careful with my words when approaching sensitive topics like this. Even saying something like "haha she's right, just look at Trump" can have an impact on how seriously we take such issues, and this isn't what society should be joking about.
 

Zhukov

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
2,641
Who on Earth just rubs noses with someone they're not particularly close to?

I don't have any reason to believe he's a genuine creeper, but... could he maybe just please not do that?
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,250
History of plagirism
Support on racial Segregation
And videos of him touching women and young girls in a creepy way,

Yeah I'm sure this will flyby the MeToo and BLM movement.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,309
I wonder if Repubs and Fox News are calling for Joe to be shot into the sun over these incidents. Surely they lack the self-awareness that would keep them silent on this.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I hear you and I fully accept that my perspective is that of someone who has not suffered any sort of sexual abuse, and hence when I say things about the topic it might come off as insensitive because of my thoughtlessness. I came into this thread to shit on Pelosi, but the way I approached did not take into consideration that people who are already tired of how normalized her attitude is would find it deeply troubling that anyone would say that she is "right" in any sort of context. I apologize again and will be more careful with my words when approaching sensitive topics like this. Even saying something like "haha she's right, just look at Trump" can have an impact on how seriously we take such issues, and this isn't what society should be joking about.
Thanks for listening and for your communication.. I appreciate it.
 
Oct 29, 2017
7,503
Part of me would like to see the GOP twist itself in knots attacking him for it while excusing Trump's bullshit, but chances are they would just remain mum about the whole thing and let the Dems do the work for them.

What knots though. They would happily shred Biden for something they know Trump is guilty of as well. They don't see the contradiction and they don't care about getting called out on it.
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
I've been doing my best to give Pelosi the benefit of the doubt because she's an old guard Democrat with some good, pragmatic strategies but fuck me that is a bad look, especially on a woman in a prominent leadership position.
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
It's funny how the establishment Dems try to paint the left as trying to ruin the party with "purity test" when all the so-called "purity test" they do are basically "don't be a shitty human being". Not surprised that "don't be a sexual harasser" is yet another "purity test" the establishment Dems can't pass.

'Purity Tests' are one of the great strawmen of the last several years; this synchronized, automated response to legitimate criticisms of Democratic candidates.

In reality it has nothing to do with purity and everything to do with legitimate vetting and the discourse therein.

I don't need purity but I'd prefer my President not be a touchy, grope-happy perv.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
uh there is a big difference between overly affectionate touchy feely and sexual predation.

the level of wrong is that he treated those women and kids like pets to be cuddled, kissed and hugged.

But I don't believe there was anything sexual in nature at all and that is where some members on this board are exaggerating.

Yeah he was overly touchy feely and should respect other's personal space but he is no pedo or rapist.

Lots of old ladies love to hold hands with younger people, elbow to elbow. There is nothing ''sexual'' about that

I side with Nancy Pelosi's view on this
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,303
Ironic how everyone crys about the "the left eating their own" when they really operate on the same "my side does no wrong" politics as Republicans do.

Only way you get held accountable for anything is if you have some damn melanin as a left wing politician. So tired of the shit.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
uh there is a big difference between overly affectionate touchy feely and sexual predation.

the level of wrong is that he treated those women and kids like pets to be cuddled, kissed and hugged.

But I don't believe there was anything sexual in nature at all and that is where some members on this board are exaggerating.

Yeah he was overly touchy feely and should respect other's personal space but he is no pedo or rapist.

Lots of old ladies love to hold hands with younger people, elbow to elbow. There is nothing ''sexual'' about that

I side with Nancy Pelosi's view on this
Let me ask.

If you were in the work place and got behind a woman, smelled her hair, then kissed her on the back of the head and she reported it to HR, what would they call it?

You think someone would dish out shitty excuses for you?