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Oct 27, 2017
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people still arent understanding that this is for enterprises and businesses. but its doom and gloom because OP misinterpreted the article.
OP is misrepresenting it a bit, but Office 365 also started as an enterprise version of the suite of programs and now it's the only Office offering available now, so the transition isn't entirely unprecedented

Edit: Nevermind. Seem like you can actually make a 1 time purchase of Office still
 

Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,783
Alabama
Your post made me curious so I looked up pricing for some of the older Office suites. Microsoft removed Outlook from the base version of the Office suite a long time ago:

https://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-announces-office-2007-pricing-details/

Microsoft replaced their Student and Teacher edition of Office with Office 2007's Home and Student edition. This edition included Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Onenote, but removed Outlook and was sold for $150. The standard edition that included Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Outlook retailed for $399.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_2007#Editions
Standard Edition 2013 had Outlook and Publisher.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,018
Florida
I know people misinterpreted the article but Windows has been shit for a while. The forced reboots/patches are incredibly annoying.

Their server OS has been getting worse and worse. Why the hell does Windows Server 2016 have xbox live services?...

Their OS is a bloated mess and more IT companies should switch over to Linux.

Its bloated because companies expect compatibility with ancient devices and software.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,618
Hey look, you went all the way back to 2003?

Lets look at something relevant.

Office 2013

Home&Student: Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote
Home&Business: Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote, Outlook
Standard: Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote, Outlook, Publisher
Professional: Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote, Outlook, Publisher, Access


Oh look, a release from this decade, Outlook and Publisher are Standard.

They were removed from the standard release for 2016.

I will admit that I thought Access was standard too, but as I said in my first post I don't use it so I didn't really pay attention to it.

7558.image_thumb_3DB02640.png



Oh look, they charged $369 for Standard for 2013 and added Publisher, when Standard before had

office2007-compare.jpg


What do you know? Word, Excel, PP and Outlook only for $399! ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_2007#Editions )Unbelievable they didn't have more!

So instead of having a "Standard release" for 2016, you know what they did? Release Professional for the same $399 they used to charge for the Standard.

So you are right that there is no Standard release anymore: It got replaced at that price tier by Professional.

They added more for the same price.

Again, https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/office-professional-2016/cfq7ttc0k5f8?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

399.
 
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Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,783
Alabama
7558.image_thumb_3DB02640.png



Oh look, they charged $369 for Standard for 2013 and added Publisher, when Standard before had

office2007-compare.jpg


What do you know? Word, Excel, PP and Outlook only for 399! unbelievable they didn't have more!

So instead of having a "Standard release" for 2016, you know what they did? Release Professional for the same $399 they used to charge for the Standard.

So you are right that there is no Standard release anymore: It got replaced at that price tier by Professional.

They added more for the same price.
That's the Estimated price for a transferable commercial (ie, can be installed on multiple PCs) enterprise license.

I didn't pay anywhere near that when I bought it as a consumer. I paid around $200. So yeah... They more or less doubled the price by removing it from the standard version and only including it in the Pro in order to steer people to 365.

Edit: Yeah, the price you're claiming as the Price for 2013 Standard edition was the Price of the 2013 Standard "Open Business License." That's not the price of a single consumer purchase of Office 2013.
 
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Deleted member 6498

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
662
Month or so ago I was updating windows and it asked me if I wanted it to track my behaviour so it could tailor ads to me, and it said something like 'unticking this won't reduce the amount of ads you see, they just might not be as suited to you'.

It kind of blew my mind, why the fuck am I paying for this OS, if it's just going to snidely tell me I have to see adverts as well? Decided to switch as much to Ubuntu as possible. Will keep my existing windows install for gaming, though more and more of the games I actually play are getting Linux versions so should hopefully be able to get rid of that one day.
That's used for advertisements in apps downloaded via the Windows Store.

If you don't want any ads, you can just avoid using such apps via the Windows Store.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,618
That's the Estimate price for a transferable commercial license.

I didn't pay anywhere near that when I bought it as a consumer. I paid around $200.

You got a volume license product. 2013 Standard was only offered as a volume license. What you paid for it cannot be directly compared to retail licenses.

That's like saying Windows Pro is worth $30 because I got a key off reddit, not the $149 MS wants for it on a retail channel.

And Office 2016 Standard, Subscription, Has the same software as 2013 Standard. What you can't do is get a key for it anymore as a consumer for a perpetual. That was never intended in the first place any volume licensing software!

They replaced Standard retail price tier with Professional instead.

Now I see, you are basically complaining you can't get a volume license software for cheap again.

Edit: Yeah, the price you're claiming as the Price for 2013 Standard edition was the Price of the 2013 Standard "Open Business License." That's not the price of a single consumer purchase of Office 2013.

There is no consumer version of Office 2013 Standard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_2013#Editions

  • Standard: This suite, only available through volume licensing channels, includes the core applications Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote plus Outlook and Publisher.[52]
 

Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,783
Alabama
You got a volume license product. 2013 Standard was only offered as a volume license. What you paid for it cannot be directly compared to retail licenses.

That's like saying Windows Pro is worth $30 because I got a key off reddit, not the $149 MS wants for it on a retail channel.

And Office 2016 Standard, Subscription, Has the same software as 2013 Standard. What you can't do is get a key for it anymore as a consumer. That was never intended in the first place any volume licensing software!
Why would you assume I got a volume license product? Where did I say anything that would lead you to believe that?

I paid retail.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,618
Why would you assume I got a volume license product? Where did I say anything that would lead you to believe that?

I paid retail.
You didn't get Office 2013 Standard Edition then.

  • Standard: This suite, only available through volume licensing channels, includes the core applications Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote plus Outlook and Publisher.[52]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_2013#Editions

You kept claiming stuff was included in the Standard edition and not anymore. But they replaced Standard at retail with Professional at the same price.
 

Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,783
Alabama

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,618
Well, hell, maybe I did buy Professional, and that's why I thought Access was Standard...

Either Way, I paid around $200 retail and got a full featured Office.
I paid $10 for Professional from MS, paid $12 to get an original DVD from MS.

/shrug.

Still, they made Professional Edition the new retail "Standard Edition" with the same MSRP as the old SE.

So no, they did not take away stuff for 2016: They technically give you all now for the same price.
 

Alvis

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,313
They day they try this for regular users is the day I'm switching to Linux.
 

David Addison

Member
Oct 28, 2017
667
The Computerworld article is obvious clickbait, but my question is: If half-baked Windows 10 updates are the problem, how is "let MS do all the updating" the solution?
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,618
The Computerworld article is obvious clickbait, but my question is: If half-baked Windows 10 updates are the problem, how is "let MS do all the updating" the solution?

This is for scenarios like these:

Basically, you can do remote desktop sessions using thin client terminals, like Wyse clients, that connect to Citrix and other company's server solutions. These are low cost, low power CPUs that hold a custom OS that has RDP embedded to it, plus their own extensions.

Basically

Thin Client -> Citrix/XXX -> Windows Server

With Citrix and what not, what it allows is to make the local network be something that you can connect using the software of the server, like say, a PLC or a Printer

PLC/Printer <-> Thin Client <-> Citrix/XXX <-> Window Server with Photoshop/CAD/Dev Software

This works good when you have a bunch of remote stations that you do not want to send full computers to, and they have decent internet. Like gas/oil/monitoring stations.

Microsoft is offering a hybrid solution to this: Use a "thin client" that holds part of the OS that is basically "local", but you do not need to manage them because MS does it all with a subscription. It also avoids the latency, while allowing to have devices that can be kept up to date without IT overhead.

For example: Just "checking out" a file from somewhere I am working can take up to 15 minutes, because it is uploading a copy from the network of the thin client up to the server to be edited on the software that is running on the server.

OP is wrong. The article takes it the wrong way. It's just using thin clients with extra flash to hold the OS and making them a sub instead of having to pay for a 1000 User Windows Server license so you can RDP or use Citrix.
 

Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,783
Alabama
I paid $10 for Professional from MS, paid $12 to get an original DVD from MS.

/shrug.

Still, they made Professional Edition the new retail Standard Edition with the same MSRP as the old SE.

So no, they did not take away stuff for 2016: They technically give you all now for the same price.
I found the disc. It was 2010 Standard that I bought.

It had Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote, Outlook, and Publisher included.

So two back-to-back standard editions included Outlook and Publisher, but 2013 volume only.
Even then, buying at volume with a open licence and the ability to install on more than one computer, you still paid less than a single one-time-use purchase of 2016 Pro when a business bought a license for 2013 standard.

...and you absolutely paid less at retail when buying 2010 Standard and received the programs.

There's no way to claim otherwise unless you are trying REALLY hard to spin this.


So, as i said before....

Microsoft has a history of getting creative with what they offer and the prices they charge to steer people to their services. In fact, 2013 Standard Edition moving to volume only when the 2010 version was retail just happened to coincide with their office as a service plans going live, btw...
 
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neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,618
I found the disc. It was 2010 Standard that I bought.

It had Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote, Outlook, and Publisher included.

So two back-to-back standard editions included Outlook and Publisher, but 2013 volume only.
Even then, buying at volume with a open licence and the ability to install on more than one computer, you still paid less than a single one-time-use purchase of 2016 Pro when a business bought a license for 2013 standard.

...and you absolutely paid less at retail when buying 2010 Standard and received the programs.

There's no way to claim otherwise unless you are trying REALLY hard to spin this.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2010/01/microsoft-reveals-office-2010-retail-prices/

https://www.pcworld.com/article/185918/microsoft_office_2010.html

2010 Standard was Volume only too.

But you could get an Open License version of 2010, like 2013 Standard. Only vendor I found that offers it is this: https://www.mychoicesoftware.com/pr...1KcwAAEAQYASABEgIOrfD_BwE&variant=22821730119

383.99

Edit: CDW offers 2016 Standard perpetual

https://www.cdw.com/product/Microso...P&cm_sp=Product-_-Session&ProgramIdentifier=3

278.99
 

Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,783
Alabama
Office 2010 Standard was Retail and Volume.

Apparently the difference was that the volume version had something called "Office Customization Tool (OCT)" the reatil version did not.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,618
I found the disc. It was 2010 Standard that I bought.

It had Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote, Outlook, and Publisher included.

So two back-to-back standard editions included Outlook and Publisher, but 2013 volume only.
Even then, buying at volume with a open licence and the ability to install on more than one computer, you still paid less than a single one-time-use purchase of 2016 Pro when a business bought a license for 2013 standard.

...and you absolutely paid less at retail when buying 2010 Standard and received the programs.

There's no way to claim otherwise unless you are trying REALLY hard to spin this.


So, as i said before....

Microsoft has a history of getting creative with what they offer and the prices they charge to steer people to their services. In fact, 2013 Standard Edition moving to volume only when the 2010 version was retail just happened to coincide with their office as a service plans going live, btw...

If Standard Edition retail MSRP was 399, or like 2013's Standard Open Value license at 369 MSRP, then they killed Standard, but not with the devious intention you claim. They lowered Professional Edition's MSRP at what the old Standard was.

The only price that is constant is MSRP. At $349 MSRP, you could buy a Office 2010 Professional Edition Key, cheaper than 2007 Standard Edition.

https://www.networkworld.com/articl...-versions-of-office-2010--here-s-a-chart.html

They kept the 399 price of the old retail MSRP Standard Edition but now they sell 2016 Professional Edition at that same price, meaning Pro replaced SE.
 
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Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,167
QLD, Australia
Yeah I can see SysAdmins everywhere jumping at the chance to let MS auto-patch their VM servers & thin clients, I mean what could possibly go wrong? /s
 

nstine

Member
Dec 21, 2017
25
The Computerworld article is obvious clickbait, but my question is: If half-baked Windows 10 updates are the problem, how is "let MS do all the updating" the solution?
It's not even that the updates are half baked (though some obviously have had major issues) that is the issue. It's that when you work in IT for a business with thousands of PCs that need to be updated and that update takes up to an hour or two (for large feature updates) to complete, just the seemingly simple task of updating the PCs takes an extraordinary amount of time. Keep in mind too that businesses typically use PCs until they stop working and the updates only take more time as they age.

Typically you don't want to have to run the updates during business hours to minimize downtime for users and stress on your network. You can't just push the update to all PCs overnight because downloading the update files either from MS to each PC or running the update from a local server will bog your network down to the point that few PCs will complete the update before the next business day. Not to mention the PCs that users have turned off and failed to turn on remotely or the PCs that for whatever reason failed to complete the update (HD/partition full, various hardware/software/driver incompatibilities and etc). Plus there are always PCs with issues that would take more time to troubleshoot than to reimage and start from scratch. By the time you finish updating most/all of the PCs the next major update release is right around the corner and you start over.

This service offloads the updating process to Microsoft's support allowing IT departments to focus on other issues. While it certainly won't fit every business's needs I can certainly see the appeal if it's priced competitively and works fairly well.
 
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Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,783
Alabama
You are right that Wikipedia says Retail, but I can't find a place that has a price at all.

Even MS old support only has 3 versions:

https://web.archive.org/web/2010061...which-suite-is-right-for-you-FX101825640.aspx
Weird. I wish I could remember where I bought it. It was a brick and mortar store. I was taking college courses that didn't require Publisher but it helped; I'd gotten used to having it at work so I looked for a version that had it. Granted, this was like 2012, so it would be like buying Office 2016 now in 2018.

It was a full featured Office suite for a good price, which you can't do now. It's good business to steer people to your subscription service, but it's not always good for your customers. I decided I wouldn't buy Office unless they offered the same value as the previous version. The value/$ ratio has shifted too far for me.
 

BLLYjoe25

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,969
lol I see nobody bothers reading beyond a headline or a single article. Keep up the fear-mongering.

Also lol at people saying they'll just switch to Linux. Yeah good luck with that. Especially if you want to play PC games. I'd rather pay for Windows every month than have to deal with the shit show that is Linux and I am not even the biggest fan of Windows 10.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,618
Weird. I wish I could remember where I bought it. It was a brick and mortar store. I was taking college courses that didn't require Publisher but it helped; I'd gotten used to having it at work so I looked for a version that had it. Granted, this was like 2012, so it would be like buying Office 2016 now in 2018.

It was a full featured Office suite for a good price, which you can't do now. It's good business to steer people to your subscription service, but it's not always good for your customers. I decided I wouldn't buy Office unless they offered the same value as the previous version. The value/$ ratio has shifted too far for me.
Most people only need Word, Excel, PowerPoint, which is why they just shifted everything business to Professional and lowered the MSRP instead of having 5 boxed versions that confused the shit out of people.

Heck, I was confused when I saw a 97 Pro disc, and then a 97 Access disc. Like, why is it on a separate disc with a separate key when it says it includes it?

You can buy Professional for less than 399 anyway.
 

Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,783
Alabama
lol I see nobody bothers reading beyond a headline or a single article. Keep up the fear-mongering.

Also lol at people saying they'll just switch to Linux. Yeah good luck with that. Especially if you want to play PC games. I'd rather pay for Windows every month than have to deal with the shit show that is Linux and I am not even the biggest fan of Windows 10.
The only reason I have Windows on my Gaming PC. I tried Linux gaming. It wasn't bad, tbh, but the games that don't run natively on Linux need a lot of work to get going. And those that do tend to have worse performance than in windows. This was before AMD released their AMD GPUPro opensource drivers on Linux, I've heard good things, but not good enough to get me to try again.

Maybe if, and this is a really big if, Vulkan really takes off and gives Linux gaming a big shot in the arm I'll try it again. But right now? Nah...

As an everyday use PC, something like Ubuntu isn't bad. Fewer stability issues there than I have on my windows 10 PCs.

Most people only need Word, Excel, PowerPoint, which is why they just shifted everything business to Professional and lowered the MSRP instead of having 5 boxed versions that confused the shit out of people.

Heck, I was confused when I saw a 97 Pro disc, and then a 97 Access disc. Like, why is it on a separate disc with a separate key when it says it includes it?

You can buy Professional for less than 399 anyway.

Yeah, I saw those sites... Not getting the warm and fuzzies about sending them my payment info, lol.

Outlook is great for managing your calendar. Outlook is even free on mobile, and free to use in browser at Outlook.live.com... So I just don't get essentially putting it behind a paywall for the app on PC... What's the point?

Publisher is a must for creating stationary, business cards, labels, etc. but yeah, most users won't use it these days.
 
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L4DANathan

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
859
Fairfax, VA, USA
Where there's smoke there's fire. We all called it with how they started changing it with Windows 8, and more so with 10, but so many people defended how they'd never do it.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,618
lol I see nobody bothers reading beyond a headline or a single article. Keep up the fear-mongering.

Also lol at people saying they'll just switch to Linux. Yeah good luck with that. Especially if you want to play PC games. I'd rather pay for Windows every month than have to deal with the shit show that is Linux and I am not even the biggest fan of Windows 10.
Oh come on, I'm sure people are looking forward to having to recompile kernels... Oh wait, this isn't 2.2 anymore....
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,618
Where there's smoke there's fire. We all called it with how they started changing it with Windows 8, and more so with 10, but so many people defended how they'd never do it.

Where there is a click bait thread, there are drive-by's. We all called it how people do not read articles before posting, and more so with each page, but so many people keep posting the same crap because they'd never read the article.
 

NateSnacks

Alt-Account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
595
This will absolutely work for them. This is a godsend to schools and large companies running Windows but I'm not paying jack shit a month to use my personal computer. Will they lock me out if I'm behind on payments? That can be a problem.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,618
This will absolutely work for them. This is a godsend to schools and large companies running Windows but I'm not paying jack shit a month to use my personal computer. Will they lock me out if I'm behind on payments? That can be a problem.
Are you A School/Large Corporation?

If Yes, this will be an option for you
If No, this will NOT be an option for you

Please enter your response now.
 

SturokBGD

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,414
Ontario
VDI is big business in the corporate space these days. This is Microsoft keeping the office desktop relevant.

The rest of you are as dumb as rocks.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
"I'm hearing this Microsoft Managed Desktop is, basically, the Microsoft version of "desktop as a service." It will provide customers the ability to lease a Windows 10 device that's automatically provisioned for them and have the operating system kept up-to-date and more for a single monthly fee, my contacts say."

The original report by Mary J Foley... How does one goes from that to whatever that site wrote?
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,618
"I'm hearing this Microsoft Managed Desktop is, basically, the Microsoft version of "desktop as a service." It will provide customers the ability to lease a Windows 10 device that's automatically provisioned for them and have the operating system kept up-to-date and more for a single monthly fee, my contacts say."

The original report by Mary J Foley... How does one goes from that to whatever that site wrote?
Micro$oft hate.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,423
Oh, just a buisiness thing. Panicked for a moment lol. Fuck your clickbait article.
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,945
"I'm hearing this Microsoft Managed Desktop is, basically, the Microsoft version of "desktop as a service." It will provide customers the ability to lease a Windows 10 device that's automatically provisioned for them and have the operating system kept up-to-date and more for a single monthly fee, my contacts say."

The original report by Mary J Foley... How does one goes from that to whatever that site wrote?
Thanks for quoting this. Some users here are amazing.
 
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