Dan and Carrie Floyd are leaving Extra Credits [UPDATE: Sexual harrassment claims]

[Helmic]

The "male feminist" shit just sounds like dogwhistling to me. The intent behind the statement is the same as "white knight", it exists to shame someone for speaking up about someone else's shitty behavior by implying the only reason a man could have for not being an asshole is to get sex out of someone. Anyone trying to shame people for being a "male feminist" has an ulterior motive and quite frankly doesn't really belong on this forum.

The reason you hear about supposedly woke people getting outed is because we fucking clean house. James Portnow isn't getting thrown under the bus because there was never any promise from his audience that they would look the other way if he got caught being a manipulative little shit. When antifeminist dudes predictably do fucked shit like this, they keep doing what they're doing because their audience doesn't care. Yeah, shitty people will use the language of feminism and the left to push awful things, we all know what TERFs are like, but you're frankly dumb if your conclusion is that men shouldn't be feminists.

 

[Jader7777]

This is quite confusing. So no sexual harrasment? James leaving? wasn't Dan leaving?

Edit: Ok so Dan and Carrie are leaving but have nothing to do with the sexual harassment issue.
The Sexual harassment issue looks more like mobbing/harassment after a failed relationship.
This should be 2 threads indeed lol

Click to shrink...

Yeah I am seriously confused about the details. I'm going to put it into the 'too hard' pile until some solid explanation arises. Sucks that this is happening all the same, I bet the quality of the episodes will suffer.

 

[Thorrgal]

The "male feminist" shit just sounds like dogwhistling to me. The intent behind the statement is the same as "white knight", it exists to shame someone for speaking up about someone else's shitty behavior by implying the only reason a man could have for not being an asshole is to get sex out of someone. Anyone trying to shame people for being a "male feminist" has an ulterior motive and quite frankly doesn't really belong on this forum.

The reason you hear about supposedly woke people getting outed is because we fucking clean house. James Portnow isn't getting thrown under the bus because there was never any promise from his audience that they would look the other way if he got caught being a manipulative little shit. When antifeminist dudes predictably do fucked shit like this, they keep doing what they're doing because their audience doesn't care. Yeah, shitty people will use the language of feminism and the left to push awful things, we all know what TERFs are like, but you're frankly dumb if your conclusion is that men shouldn't be feminists.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for this, that "male feminist" shit rubbed me the wrong way. So males can't be feminists now? Ffs

James seems guilty of mobbing at work and lying after she quit but not of sexual harrassment. And even that we need more details...

And mixing this with Dan and Carrie's departure was not a good idea

 

[Wrath Of Exodust]

Thanks for this, that "male feminist" shit rubbed me the wrong way.

Click to shrink...

It's not that, it's more like the now cliche "I'm a nice guy". Dudes who tend to declare themselves as male feminists over and over turn up as having done some shady shit around women. It's really not that shocking.

 

[Thorrgal]

It's not that, it's more like the now cliche "I'm a nice guy". Dudes who tend to declare themselves as male feminists over and over turn up as having done some shady shit around women. It's really not that shocking.

Click to shrink...

Do they, really? You have an study or something or it's just that it looks that way because of how relevant this cases are?

I mean it's certainly a bit weird when guys overdue that declaration but I don't think that means they have a higher % of being sexual predators tbh

 

[Wrath Of Exodust]

Do they, really? You have an study or something or it's just that it looks that way because of how relevant this cases are?

I mean it's certainly a bit weird when guys overdue that declaration but I don't think that means they have a higher % of being sexual predators tbh

Click to shrink...

Never said anything about stats. Just that it's not really that different from the Nice GuyTM moniker that's been around for a while. It's basically the same "nice guys" rebranding into something else. Same principle.

 

[Thorrgal]

Never said anything about stats. Just that it's not really that different from the Nice GuyTM moniker that's been around for a while. It's basically the same "nice guys" rebranding into something else. Same principle.

Click to shrink...

No, it's not

You said, and I'm quotting, "Dudes who tend to declare themselves as male feminists over and over turn up as having done some shady shit around women"

" Over and over" you say, "they turn up" as shady individuals

And then you say "never said anything about stats" when I ask for proof about that

You think I'm dumb? Or what are you trying to pull off here

 

[Wrath Of Exodust]

That's very dense of you. My point is that's what people mean by it, the impression they get when someone brings up they're a "male feminist" which is no different than saying "I'm a nice guy". Not sure why your immediate response is to ask for a study, but ok. I'm done with this convo.

 

[Helmic]

Never said anything about stats. Just that it's not really that different from the Nice GuyTM moniker that's been around for a while. It's basically the same "nice guys" rebranding into something else. Same principle.

Click to shrink...

The "nice guy" thing is clearly sarcastic as the person in question isn't actually a nice guy and the point isn't that men shouldn't be nice but rather shouldn't be expect to be rewarded with sex for basic human decency. "Male feminist" is largely being used by GG types to shame guys on the left for identifying as feminist.

You don't get accused of being a Nice Guy (TM) for being nice, you get accused when you complain about being owed sex. You do get accused of being a male feminist for holding feminist ideals. There's a reason a lot of staunch antifeminists are tweeting that exact phrase. It's possible to call out James Portnow's hypocrisy without making a broader statement about men espousing feminist rhetoric being inherently creepy.

 

[waxinlyrical]

Statement from James Portnow

 

[Delusibeta]

I get the feeling that James doesn't think he did anything wrong.

 

[brinstar]

The "nice guy" thing is clearly sarcastic as the person in question isn't actually a nice guy and the point isn't that men shouldn't be nice but rather shouldn't be expect to be rewarded with sex for basic human decency. "Male feminist" is largely being used by GG types to shame guys on the left for identifying as feminist.

Click to shrink...

No it's not, this is a part of a constant conversation in progressive circles. It's not about shaming dudes, it's calling out men who use feminist rhetoric to try to prey on women

 

[Last Jon Standing]

I get the feeling that James doesn't think he did anything wrong.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I feel pretty much the same way. James says they're doing this and that to make the work environment better, but doesn't confirm what Soraya said (actually sort of denies it) and says he'll get help to change any possible bad behaviors of his. Sounds a lot like "Sorry if I offended anyone".

 

[JonnyDBrit]

I get the feeling that James doesn't think he did anything wrong.

Click to shrink...

He seems to be taking this from the perspective of 'I'm not sure what I did wrong, but since someone was clearly hurt, we must do better'. Which okay, that's better than so many other situations, but Soraya wasn't exactly subtle in how she felt James had harassed her - stuff like how he insisted upon Lies isn't addressed. Perhaps the vagueness of it comes down to, as he says, respecting her privacy, but it's not exactly reassuring if the response can be mostly summed up 'we're creating a system'. It presumes an unwitting malice, where Soraya's accusation is of one quite deliberate.

 

[justiceiro]

This is one of those cases where not telling what actually happened end up making worse than trying to protect someone privacy.

 

[Gespenst MKIV]

Another ex employed has come forward with claims of abusive behavior, Will Overgard. Apparently he used to handle their Twitch channel

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqiift

 

[Chris_Rivera]

His statement totally proves the manipulative nature thing.

 

[Lafazar]

Yeah, all these statements are pretty consistent, and if James has a history of treating people like this (which he probably does), more and more stories like that will come out.

I am really disappointed in James, I cancelled my Patreon and Unsubscribed from the Channel as soon as the first allegation and weak statement by EC came out, but now there is not a sliver of doubt left.

This is hard, because the content of the show was usually very good and the overall messages (games matter, inclusivity, etc.) are very positive and still badly needed in our current gaming culture. But James' actual behaviour is so at odds with the messages the show tries to convey that I just cannot get over that dissonance.

 

[Caz]

I get the feeling that James doesn't think he did anything wrong.

Click to shrink...

That's what I got out of that statement and the Floyds leaving Extra Credits. I could not be more disgusted at Portnow than I already was when I heard about his mistreatment of Soraya a week ago.

 

[Zero-ELEC]

well, rip

I always enjoyed their content and now I feel it tainted by this. Makes me wonder what possibly better content they would have produced if it weren't for these, what potential voices were silenced or driven out.

I hope those affected by the abuse and those leaving are in better positions now.

 

[Arkage]

Another ex employed has come forward with claims of abusive behavior, Will Overgard. Apparently he used to handle their Twitch channel

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqiift

Click to shrink...

*pauses for a sip of tea*

Now on with the tale.

Click to shrink...

Reveling in the public spectacle of it all. I really can't imagine working at a tech company with these kinds of atmospheres and personalities.

 

[Swiggins]

This really REALLY needs to be two separate threads.

 

[Last Jon Standing]

Reveling in the public spectacle of it all. I really can't imagine working at a tech company with these kinds of atmospheres and personalities.

Click to shrink...

Considering what he went through, I don't blame him for enjoying seeing his bully finally getting what he deserves.

 

[Nitpicker_Red]

Another ex employed has come forward with claims of abusive behavior, Will Overgard. Apparently he used to handle their Twitch channel

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqiift

Click to shrink...

Another pretty explicit explanation. I don't think anyone can argue being confused about the situation after reading that one.

This all started back when I got a message from James Portnow one evening. He said that Extra Credits was re-starting their Twitch channel, and asked me to come run it. Heck. Yes. I flew from England on a week's notice, set up in Seattle and got to work. But no sooner had I arrived than James began to blame me for everything that went wrong. Comcast internet went out? My fault. James wanted to run a stream but forgot to schedule it with anyone? My fault also. Heck I ended up spending what little downtime I had dealing with drama caused by James, either directly or indirectly. I had to play emotional drama Tetris with the schedule because of whatever fresh-hot BS had just been thrown onto the fire.

Click to shrink...

Very similar patterns to what Soraya said in her tweets. The post also tell about being isolated of communication from other members, being preyed on when at his weakest (mourning), being manipulated and treated as expendable/replaceable, being let go publicly with ambiguous wording.
One weird thing about the HR investigation:

The only other things I can add to all of this is that the HR investigation that was mentioned didn't include me, but more importantly didn't include Soraya. I also know it made some EC staff members uncomfortable (which I saw because they left me on the bloody email threads after firing me).

Click to shrink...

We can agree with James's statement on that point at least: the investigation was inefficient to find the existing problem.

This really REALLY needs to be two separate threads.

Click to shrink...

I put a report on the thread asking for that but since it hasn't happenned, I guess the two subjects have to be considered as one.
Would help to at least have a better explainer TL:DR in the OP (like many on page 2) explaining who is impacted by what rather than the current mishmash of informations.
Plus change that title...

 

[Gespenst MKIV]

This really REALLY needs to be two separate threads.

Click to shrink...

I was searching for another one or debating making a new one for the other statement but since the discussion was already here, maybe a change of title if splitting the thread is a no. The thing is that apparently the Floyds where not a big part of the accusations if any.

 

[Stuggatz]

Another ex employed has come forward with claims of abusive behavior, Will Overgard. Apparently he used to handle their Twitch channel

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqiift

Click to shrink...

I once worked for a boss like that. Most people in my position quit or were fired within 6 weeks (turnover in one year was over 200%). I lasted 6 months before I quit. It was a nightmare. At least there should be some public blowback for this boss that should cause some actual consequences for him.

 

[Aselith]

"Totally independent HR" gives me no confidence. HR is there to protect the company, not the employees.

Click to shrink...

While this is true, at the point where credible accusations are being made in public, "protecting the company" could mean cutting ties with the employee so that your company doesn't get sued for a lot of money. If she takes it to court and it's found to be true during discovery, they are completely fucked.

 

[swift-darius]

The "male feminist" shit just sounds like dogwhistling to me. The intent behind the statement is the same as "white knight", it exists to shame someone for speaking up about someone else's shitty behavior by implying the only reason a man could have for not being an asshole is to get sex out of someone. Anyone trying to shame people for being a "male feminist" has an ulterior motive and quite frankly doesn't really belong on this forum.

The reason you hear about supposedly woke people getting outed is because we fucking clean house. James Portnow isn't getting thrown under the bus because there was never any promise from his audience that they would look the other way if he got caught being a manipulative little shit. When antifeminist dudes predictably do fucked shit like this, they keep doing what they're doing because their audience doesn't care. Yeah, shitty people will use the language of feminism and the left to push awful things, we all know what TERFs are like, but you're frankly dumb if your conclusion is that men shouldn't be feminists.

Click to shrink...

thanks for this. it's a weird underlying issue with all these shitheads like nick robinson et al that get outed that, when things inevitably come to light, it's like there's an undercurrent of suspicion or shaming of everyone else. of course, that's besides the point here - my condolences to the actual victims of harassment having to put up with this shit daily, since that's what really matters - but I'm uncomfortable with some of this collateral damage

 

[Fel Temp Reparatio]

I think it's worth bringing up that that thread probably wasn't the first time Soraya talked about James' abuse. She doesn't name who the abuser is here, but this all fits with what we know about her relationship with James:

 

[Fel Temp Reparatio]

And the last part of that thread, as it limited how many tweets I could embed in one post:

 

[closer]

Anyone trying to shame people for being a "male feminist" has an ulterior motive

Click to shrink...

yes

 

[Council Pop]

Click to shrink...

Obviously I feel for her, but I really really do not think someone being private is some sort of 'red flag'. Obviously not telling IRL friends and family about a partner is super weird and shady, but when it comes to the internet I am a super private person- I don't like my girlfriend posting any photos of me or talking about me at all on any social media.

This is from a combination of having been stalked in the past, wanting to minimise my digital footprint and working in jobs with vulnerable people which means it's best if I am very private on the internet. I take this privacy very seriously and would be incredibly upset at my partner if she said stuff about me online, but this does NOT make me a potential abuser.

 

[Zacmortar]

The "male feminist" shit just sounds like dogwhistling to me. The intent behind the statement is the same as "white knight", it exists to shame someone for speaking up about someone else's shitty behavior by implying the only reason a man could have for not being an asshole is to get sex out of someone. Anyone trying to shame people for being a "male feminist" has an ulterior motive and quite frankly doesn't really belong on this forum.

The reason you hear about supposedly woke people getting outed is because we fucking clean house. James Portnow isn't getting thrown under the bus because there was never any promise from his audience that they would look the other way if he got caught being a manipulative little shit. When antifeminist dudes predictably do fucked shit like this, they keep doing what they're doing because their audience doesn't care. Yeah, shitty people will use the language of feminism and the left to push awful things, we all know what TERFs are like, but you're frankly dumb if your conclusion is that men shouldn't be feminists.

Click to shrink...

White knighting is a legitimate thing.

The people who rag on male feminists are fucky, though. Not on here, but I have had someone accuse me of just standing up for girls because I want to get in her pants.

When I'm very outwardly gay as fuck lmao.

 

[Messofanego]

Sorry to hear Soraya went through that. Hope her the best of success in the future.