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Vareon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,867
part 3 is likely going to come in 3 years, give or take, that's...fairly standard for AAA game? i dont think that content is that big of a trouble for FF anymore. not since 2020 atleast

That's pretty fast, even. But yeah some people are still stuck with 2010s era or "haha squenix this game is never coming out" but SE releases have been pretty solid even since XV.

And bless Forspoken, I wish we could've said more about you, but alas.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,234
Singapore
Agreed. XV is kind of an outlier IMO considering FNC.
It's not even a particular outlier other than the fans who obsessively waited on Versus while ignoring everything else.

Here's a list of major FF related high profile new releases from 2001 to 2024. The only year where there was nothing notable was in 2014. The period from 2010 to 2015 was likely the "dry spell" that was most felt by console-only FF fans who weren't interested in portable titles or online games. Even then, there were two FFXIII sequels on console in that period.

2001: FFX
2002: FFXI, KH1
2003: FFX-2, FFXI Expansion 1
2004: FFXI Expansion 2
2005: KH2
2006: FFXII, FFXI Expansion 3
2007: FFVII Crisis Core
2008: Dissidia FF
2009: FFXIII
2010: FFXIV 1.0 (RIP), KH Birth by Sleep
2011: FFXIII-2, FF Type-0, Dissidia012 FF
2012: KH3D
2013: FFXIV ARR, LR FFXIII
2014: -
2015: FFXIV Expansion 1
2016: FFXV, World of FF
2017: FFXIV Expansion 2, FFXV DLC (Character Episodes, Comrades Multiplayer)
2018: Dissidia FF NT
2019: KH3, FFXIV Expansion 3
2020: FFVII Remake
2021: FFXIV Expansion 4, FFVII Intermission
2022: Stranger of Paradise FF Origin
2023: FFXVI
2024: FFVII Rebirth, FFXVI Major DLC, FFXIV Expansion 5
 

MidasTouch

Member
Dec 29, 2023
475
That's pretty fast, even. But yeah some people are still stuck with 2010s era or "haha squenix this game is never coming out" but SE releases have been pretty solid even since XV.

And bless Forspoken, I wish we could've said more about you, but alas.
Forspoken should have absolutely been appreciated more than it was, but that ship has long sailed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,960
Osaka, Osaka
A PS5 exclusive game, just over 3 years into its lifecycle affected greatly by a chip shortage, isn't performing as well as a PS4 game did 6-7 years into its lifecycle that was released at a time when a ton of people were stuck at home and spending more on games than usual.
Said PS5 game also requires that one played that other PS4 game for proper enjoyment?

Yeah, I'd say this all makes sense. I'd consider it to just be performing rather than underperforming.

That's pretty fast, even. But yeah some people are still stuck with 2010s era or "haha squenix this game is never coming out" but SE releases have been pretty solid even since XV.

And bless Forspoken, I wish we could've said more about you, but alas.

Yeah I feel like both episodes of FFVII's rebuild trilogy, FFXVI, and Hideo Kojima's recent projects all get treated like this; media and folks here who parrot them just pretend like they've all been announced for a decade and are never coming out despite all AAA games taking about the same amount of time, especially without reusing a lot of assets and systems.
 
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MrTomato

Member
Jan 20, 2022
2,953
i mean, we don't need anything. we don't even need games, if we wanna look at it that way. but....how weird is it to want people to experience one of the most iconic gaming franchises of all time for many, many more years? pretty much every single franchise not only wants that, but it's audiences also want that

sure, things die and new things are born, but that doesnt by chance or magic. strong IPs die because some people inevitably fuck up, either by making real bad stuff or because they refuse to make what's needed for it not to die. no IP has even disappeared if it was constantly, even if little by little, growing it's audiences
Not sure what you're trying to argue here anymore.
Since when is Final Fantasy dying? It's selling MILLIONS of copies. There are a lot of old IPs that don't disappear and don't really grow their audience.
I think you're a little out of touch if you think that FF is going to disappear.

The reality is that FF is not part of the gaming Zeitgeist anymore and that newer generations will consider other JRPGs the "peak of gaming". Doesn't mean that FF is suddenly dying.
 

Derbel McDillet

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 23, 2022
15,258
This was by far the best game of the entire generation for me so far. I really hope it evergreens while the PS5 install base keeps growing because I want SE to make more games exactly like this one.
Im still trying to figure out what "exactly like this one" means.

Like do you want more Remakes split into multiple parts?
More RPGs with a lot of downtime and mini games * glances at Yakuza and Persona *
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,743
United Kingdom
Im still trying to figure out what "exactly like this one" means.

Like do you want more Remakes split into multiple parts?
More RPGs with a lot of downtime and mini games * glances at Yakuza and Persona *

Probably means just wants more really great JRPG's like Rebirth is. Great characters, big world with lots of exploration and towns and interesting places to discover (it really captures that magic of going on an adventure) awesome combat, incredible music, basically all the stuff that Rebirth is doing so amazingly well to make a great video game.

They should definitely use the foundations of Rebirth for more games going forward, as it's the best Final Fantasy has been in years.
 

Derbel McDillet

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 23, 2022
15,258
Probably means just wants more really great JRPG's like Rebirth is. Great characters, big world with lots of exploration and towns and interesting places to discover (it really captures that magic of going on an adventure) awesome combat, incredible music, basically all the stuff that Rebirth is doing so amazingly well to make a great video game.

They should definitely use the foundations of Rebirth for more games going forward, as it's the best Final Fantasy has been in years.
Again, I would point to any other RPG that came out in 2024 alone.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,440
By the way, as much as we're talking up Switch JRPGs, Octopath Traveler 2 only sold a million units in 5 months, far underperforming the original despite widely being considered vastly superior to it. And that was released on everything. So, what is going on?

I assume it's because it was an iterative sequel that doesn't really stand out from the original game. Octopath Traveler 1 had a cool & unusual art style and a unique gameplay style (SaGa non-linearity but with a job system and also special NPC puzzle interaction abilities). OT1 was an event. Even if OT2 is better than the original (I haven't played it, but everything I've read about it says that it's a great game that is generally an improvement over the original), it doesn't look to be enough of a jump from the first game to be that exciting to anyone other than huge fans.
 

Vareon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,867
I don't think it's too hard to imagine that some people wanted a JRPG that is as ambitious as Rebirth, with lots of cool cutscenes, character interaction, huge open zones, good sense of adventure and discovery (this one Yakuza and Persona didn't have, it's trying different thing), cool battle system, lots of optional stuff to sink your teeth into, and so on. The whole package of rebirth feels uncompromising, that's how it got its 92 metascore.

In other words, Xenoblade. The children yearns for Xenoblade.
 

BBboy20

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,122
tumblr_ovc0kfP0B61vm1a59o1_500.gif


They REALLY seem to be putting over Takeo Kujiraoka when they meet with the media like at PAX. He is probably a good candidate for director.

View: https://twitter.com/Dreamboum/status/1771199748218782035
Hhhm.
You think he'll work on Part 3?

vjezYdP.gif
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,234
Singapore
If Square Enix is waiting for XVI to be completely done before considering proposals and teams for XVII, then the series is well and truly screwed.

All this speculation is nice and all but they should already have a team on planning and preproduction for XVII for some time now, ready to go into full production by late this year, if they have not already started.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,743
United Kingdom
Again, I would point to any other RPG that came out in 2024 alone.

Games like Yakuza and Persona are really great no question, but they feel different to a SE game, so it would also be nice to see SE get their mojo back and be more successful again too.

Personally I loved FFXVI, FFVII Remake and Rebirth, I think SE is making awesome games right now but for a number of reasons they just aren't selling amazing, it's sad to see so much effort go into great games for them not to sell well.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,842
If Square Enix is waiting for XVI to be completely done before considering proposals and teams for XVII, then the series is well and truly screwed.

All this speculation is nice and all but they should already have a team on planning and preproduction for XVII for some time now, ready to go into full production by late this year, if they have not already started.

ive been saying this. if yoshi p was telling the truth a couple of months ago then they didnt even begin pre prod on 17... whic hwould be INSANE.
 

Saito Hikari

Member
Jul 3, 2021
2,767
I don't believe for a moment that XVII hasn't already been in pre-production since last year.

At the same time, who knows with the new CEO coming in. It's possible the restructuring could be about figuring out which team is in the best position to handle XVII. Though it's not like the previous restructuring affected XVI and Remake as far as anyone is aware.
 

lucablight

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,555
Since when has that mattered?

How many low budget indie games win game of the year? Care to give some examples of when a game like that beat out a AAA title for game of the year,
capsule_616x353.jpg


Are really doing GotY locked in April again? Have we learned nothing from literally any other year?
I can't really see a rogue lite game winning game of the year. It's possible that some other game could swoop in and make a bigger impression but I don't see any on the horizon right now. There's no such thing as a lock but I would say it's looking pretty good for Rebirth atm with what else has been announced.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,954
Why would anyone assume that YoshiP and his team would be the ones doing FFXVII? It actually seems really unlikely.
People are speculating CBU3 may be doing it again primarily because Natsuko Ishikawa stepped away from actively writing for XIV after Endwalker (not even writing for the patches), which is similar to the moves we saw when a lot of the Heavensward team moved on to make XVI. That, combined with the fact that CBU1 will be on two full AAA productions (VIIR3 and Kingdom Hearts 4) and Luminous closed down after Forspoken points to CBU3 being the only team with bandwidth for a new AAA game. The idea is that they may already be a couple years into pre-production since Endwalker's release because thats when Ishikawa stepped into a supervisory role on XIV.

Of course, nothing is certain. CBU1 could have enough people for a 3rd AAA dev team, or maybe CBU2 gets the shot at a mainline FF game after absorbing most of Luminous. But those are the reasons people have speculated CBU3 may do it again.
 
Sep 13, 2022
6,627
What's going to possibly beat it this year?
Dragon Dogma's 2, Helldivers 2, Hellblade 2, some third party game I'm probably forgetting. This would still be the case if Rebirth released on all platforms.

Idk why we are in this bubble right now where people are having a hard time dealing with Rebirths reception vs what they think the reception should be. It's evident in a trend of threads being made over the last 14 days. Like the "buy multiple copies of the game" thread the other day was weird. Just enjoy your game and don't worry if other people don't.
 

Neutron

Member
Jun 2, 2022
2,781
Regardless of where FFXVII is development-wise, they're not going to say a word about it until they're announcing something.

Yoshi-P and everybody else will play completely ignorant until that point.
 

Kikujiro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
906
I don't really get the doom and gloom either, Square Enix is dopey but this is such a fixable problem.

Yes it kind of goofy to simply release it on one platform that has a fraction of the users the PS4 did, and yes they probably should have anticipated this performance but

The PS5 install base will get bigger and it will sell more. They'll release it on other platforms, PC certainly, Xbox and Switch possibly. Good word of mouth will likely help.

Honestly they just need to chalk this up as a lesson, have a quick look at what every other major publisher is doing, and course correct.

The dooming and glooming is the typical Era discourse, people act like this game is doomed or Part 3 will suffer, but like you said S-E has all the time to learn a lesson and right its course.
The game/series needs to expand its audience, especially in this day and age, when it's not a single platform holder dominating the market, but different platforms with different audiences (PC/Switch for example), there are probably many people who are interested in trying the series, but they are not going to buy a console for it, since it's a luxury item and it's not like the other platforms are lacking games. On the other hand the Sony audience is not showing to buy the series like they do with the Sony first party titles, so remaining exlusive isn't really worth it for S-E.
A PC version is needed asap, end of the year with the GOTY discourse is a good timing (even if it doesn't win the most ambitious one, the game will probably be nominated and get some GOTY from smaller outlets), then they need to make a Switch 2 version (only way to sell something in Japan), maybe with Part 1 as a pre-order bonus, release it at the beginning of the Switch 2 lifecycle and you can build an audience for Part 3. Then release Part 3 multiplatform day 1 and I'm 100% positive it will be a big success. The difficut part was actually making a great game and they managed to do that.
 

Derbel McDillet

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 23, 2022
15,258
Have you played Rebirth? No other FF released in recent years comes close what Yautja_Warrior has described above and any other 2024 RPGs are either not the same scope and budget (Yakuza?) or completely different games (Dragon's Dogma).
I played Remake and found the effort overall overdone, despite some extremely high highs, the lows wore me down and soured the whole thing.
 

Mephissto

Member
Mar 8, 2024
303
Dragon Dogma's 2, Helldivers 2, Hellblade 2, some third party game I'm probably forgetting. This would still be the case if Rebirth released on all platforms.

Idk why we are in this bubble right now where people are having a hard time dealing with Rebirths reception vs what they think the reception should be. It's evident in a trend of threads being made over the last 14 days. Like the "buy multiple copies of the game" thread the other day was weird. Just enjoy your game and don't worry if other people don't.

The reception is very good though, just not the sales.
 

Derbel McDillet

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 23, 2022
15,258
How many low budget indie games win game of the year? Care to give some examples of when a game like that beat out a AAA title for game of the year,
I can't really see a rogue lite game winning game of the year. It's possible that some other game could swoop in and make a bigger impression but I don't see any on the horizon right now. There's no such thing as a lock but I would say it's looking pretty good for Rebirth atm with what else has been announced.
I doubt Hades 2 1.0 will release this year, it was a kind of said in jest, but how is it hard to picture this genre winning when the first game came in second place in 2020.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,954
Regardless of where FFXVII is development-wise, they're not going to say a word about it until they're announcing something.

Yoshi-P and everybody else will play completely ignorant until that point.
Yup, or Yoshi-P will troll us with some vagueries and technical truths, like how he repeatedly stated that he was definitely not directing XVI (which was true, he was just producing and heavily involved with it)
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,586
It's wild to me that a top-tier Final Fantasy game can't sell 1 million units in Japan, even if it's exclusive to PlayStation. I must be really out of touch with sales numbers. Consoles have fallen off that much there, eh?

Hardware is selling well but software for some reason isn't. Lots of theories but the prevailing one that makes sense is that people are buying the console to play F2P games.

To put things into perspective, at least on Famitsu charts, Rebirth is the second top selling PS5 game ever in Japan. Number one is FF16 lol

The series is still top on the PS in Japan, like previous generations, but the dropoff is big.

People are speculating CBU3 may be doing it again primarily because Natsuko Ishikawa stepped away from actively writing for XIV after Endwalker (not even writing for the patches), which is similar to the moves we saw when a lot of the Heavensward team moved on to make XVI. That, combined with the fact that CBU1 will be on two full AAA productions (VIIR3 and Kingdom Hearts 4) and Luminous closed down after Forspoken points to CBU3 being the only team with bandwidth for a new AAA game. The idea is that they may already be a couple years into pre-production since Endwalker's release because thats when Ishikawa stepped into a supervisory role on XIV.



Of course, nothing is certain. CBU1 could have enough people for a 3rd AAA dev team, or maybe CBU2 gets the shot at a mainline FF game after absorbing most of Luminous. But those are the reasons people have speculated CBU3 may do it again.

I vaguely remember some rumour about how CBU1 is also working on an unknown game or IP but I can't recall when did that come up.

I also wonder whether CBU2 got the Luminous people because they are already working on something that required manpower.
 
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Steiner_Zi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,346
And you know damn Rebirth wouldn't change any of my criticisms personally so what are we trying to accomplish here.
If your criticisms are about the story then maybe not. If it is about game design though Rebirth is a massive step forward from the claustrophobic hallways of Remake to a huge open-world with multiple different environments and amazing level of detail. Again I'm not saying anything original here, that's what all reviews and user impressions have been saying. Recent example is Edge that gave Remake a 7 and Rebirth a 9.
 

DesVoeux

Member
Dec 16, 2023
174
The reception is very good though, just not the sales.
I mean, sales are the reception that matters to most companies. The primary reason so many studios care about Metacritic or getting nominated for awards is because the impact that can have on sales. There are still plenty of critical darlings that are commercial duds, and vice versa.
 

Mephissto

Member
Mar 8, 2024
303
I mean, sales are the reception that matters to most companies. The primary reason so many studios care about Metacritic or getting nominated for awards is because the impact that can have on sales. There are still plenty of critical darlings that are commercial duds, and vice versa.

Yes, that is right but reception and sales are still two different things. I am just saying the reception for Rebirth has been very good and certainly helped with sales. Who knows how much it would have sold if the reception war worse.
 

Rickyrozay2o9

Member
Dec 11, 2017
4,410
I doubt there will be very much timeline stuff in the next game at all.

It will be like Remake and Rebirth. With 95% regular VII with nice additions and 5% timeline stuff. The timeline stuff will be probably be resolved at the end or during the next game leaving only the main branch. Zack and Aerith are together in the Afterlifd like in AC.
Might have to be a little more than that this time. No way they can explain everything that's happening in that short of a time. We'd just be confused again as there's actually a lot they need to cover. Now will it change anything that drastically by the end is an entirely different story. Most likely something's will but not insanely so.
 

lucablight

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,555
Dragon Dogma's 2, Helldivers 2, Hellblade 2, some third party game I'm probably forgetting. This would still be the case if Rebirth released on all platforms.

Idk why we are in this bubble right now where people are having a hard time dealing with Rebirths reception vs what they think the reception should be. It's evident in a trend of threads being made over the last 14 days. Like the "buy multiple copies of the game" thread the other day was weird. Just enjoy your game and don't worry if other people don't.
Thats quite the strawman. You're conflating my thoughts on what I think will be the consensus game of the year with what I think it should be. I'm intellectually honest enough to separate the two concepts. I would have Rebirth comfortably beating out all those games you mentioned.
 

EvaUnit787

Member
Aug 6, 2023
1,273
The 3rd game is already a go so there are no worries it doesn't come out.

The one thing I am hopeful on is that since the 3rd one is the last one it could cause a jump in sales since people can finally play it all and will go back to the older ones. Maybe there is a number of people not wanting to play this without it being finished.

There is also a subset of people that may want it on PC, knowing it is part 2 of 3 they don't mind waiting. Square should really work on having things on PC day 1 or at least not too far away.
 

darfox8

Member
Nov 5, 2017
984
USA
Remember when people were so angry at cross gen Horizon and God of War? Somehow exclusivity is the sole reason this game isn't hitting arbitrary metrics.

BTW I have a friend who bought a PS4 to play Remake, but now he has a kid and can't justify buying a PS5 just for Rebirth. Cross gen was a huge deal for a lot of people.
 

Switters

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,779
Forgive my ignorance and feel free to ignore. Can someone break down for me why this thread is 46 pages? Is it that big of a deal? What am I missing?
Is it a general commentary on the health of the industry?

Most of the replies on the first page seemed reasonable responses and addressed the issue...
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,842
Forgive my ignorance and feel free to ignore. Can someone break down for me why this thread is 46 pages? Is it that big of a deal? What am I missing?
Is it a general commentary on the health of the industry?

Most of the replies on the first page seemed reasonable responses and addressed the issue...


FF discussiouns have a habit of going in circles lol.
 

Super

Studied the Buster Sword
Member
Jan 29, 2022
6,631
ResetEra, and NeoGAF preceding it, had a lot of discussion about sales more than most other gaming forums. We used to have people like Mat Piscatella regularly interacting here, and in fact Daniel Ahmad (ZhugeEX) was one of the first founders of this website when NeoGAF imploded.

Most of the sales people moved to InstallBase/moved on/driven away by the toxicity, but there's always a lingering interest about sales.


292ffc7f2621f846de4a18c8b9e0aaafa769b04d.png
 

ket

Member
Jul 27, 2018
13,013
Nearly 50 pages of level-headed, informative discussion and yet NO response from square? Why wont they release their ff sales data? We're very serious people! Are they stupid?
 

STHX

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
267
What's going to possibly beat it this year?
People are seriously sleeping on Metaphor. Persona 5 Royal has a metacritic of 95 (higher that Rebirth's 92) and it's the first new game (non-remake, non-spinoff) from the makers of Persona since P5. Metaphor could easily be a GOTY contender this year