i doubt 17 is not atleast in pre-production, but you're right
it doesnt make sense to hurt Part 3's quality in any way. by the looks of it, it's going to hurt for it's sales already, why make it even harder?
Daniel Ahmad (ZhugeEX): Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth is underperforming sales wise. Selling about half of what Remake sold in the same timeframe
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it doesnt make sense to hurt Part 3's quality in any way. by the looks of it, it's going to hurt for it's sales already, why make it even harder?
We're talking about part 3 potentially selling sub 1 million.
In what world would that expectation result in anything but massive budget cuts?
Sure Dawntrail will drop some funds in but what if KH4 underperforms?
Can Dawntrail really hard carry two back to back flops?
When sales expectations are on the ground floor it's not going to meaningfully hurt sales.
I agree XVII is in at least pre-production as well but even then we're a minimum of five years out from that game. Part 3 while definitely will continue the sequel trajectory, it's not going to cost anywhere near as much as an original game as long as they've retained the majority of the staff from Rebirth like they did from that game after Remake. Worst case the new CEO says you oldies got your passion project and doesn't approve anything like this again, which is fine.
At worst, it gets some relatively modest changes. I get where people are coming from, I really do; but in this highly specific case, I don't see Square Enix pumping the cash brakes especially drastically.
its probably going to be the last FF game by kitase / uematsu / nomura / nojima teamup.
They are not going off on a whimper.
Don't worry square enix will find a way to make this situation worse. Keeping doing what they are good at screwing up. I don't know why game publishers don't follow Capcom's game book.
Big corporations are slooooooow. I don't expect a humongous organization to shift budgets on a dime on their flagship IP in a kneejerk reaction to one release that is:
1. not mainline
2. a middle game of a trilogy
3. one platform exclusive
1. not mainline
2. a middle game of a trilogy
3. one platform exclusive
yeah i don't expect....anything remotely like this from SE ever again rofl
and in fact, if the chances of something like this happening in the game industry were minimal, you can almost count it to zero now
yes but Hero is right. we don't know if KH4 is going to flop, and they really dont have any major releases planned for the FF franchise in the next few years (that we know of)
but...we have zero idea. it's 100% some discussion happening, sure. but it's impossible for us to know
what I do think it's clear now, if not before, is that...they are thinking about everything. they are thinking about the entire franchise, the brand. if those numbers are actually true, they are definitely thinking about it
the trend has been happening for almost a decade lol. big companies are slow, SE is specifically slow but at some point you gotta take the horses out of the rain lol
That would be a huge mistake. Especially if they decide to (this time) heavily market that you get both Remake and Rebirth with a purchase of Part 3, as a trilogy bundle. That will pull in a lot of players who didn't initially jump in when Remake was only part 1.
I genuinely think they thought the FF7 brand was enough to hard carry them.
Sadly not.
I know some people are saying with a definitive level of confidence that the budget won't get reduced but... how do we actually know?
That's not something they're going to outright say.
We don't know if KH4 will flop...but it's primed to.
It has all the elements that saw Rebirth flop.
-a complicated plot with a perception that you need to play a billion other games to understand
-a predecessor releasing on PS4 selling a little under Remake even with an extra platform and then releasing it's next game exclusively on current gen PS5/Xbox
As an added bonus KH3 released in 2019 the absolute peak of current era Disney with Marvel and Star Wars. Now Disney is on more shaky territory and can no longer hard carry KH.
Not having new Final Fantasy releases in the immediate pipeline isn't really an argument against slashing the budget and reassigning the staff it's an argument for doing that.
Playing through these games, you can tell that this is a passion project for a lot of the people involved and even the seasoned vets at Square. They're not gonna just drop the quality and fire a bunch of people that's been working on these games.
Passion is great and everything but it doesn't mean much if the game isn't making money.
I'm merely saying no one here has any insider information to say with absolute certainty that the budget will or will not be slashed.
Speculate, sure. But to state it as fact is just incorrect.
I actually don't think this is an issue for KH.
It's technically true, but KH3 sold amazingly, the baggage of everything between it and 2 didn't matter much because in reality most are there to run around in Disney worlds rather than for the story.
If the rumored KH project within Disney is real and lines up with KH4, then I think that could help a lot too. The biggest question at this point will be hardware availability imo.
The world in which downscoping an already-planned-out game that has been in development for two years would result in the production budget multiplying due to completed workloads and milestones needing to be reset and redone.
They will cut like two mini games, now you will only have 15 mini games in FF7:Revitalise.
Sounds like something fixable by cutting wide swathes of game world and sticking the party on a train!
Realistically they would probably cut outsourcing a bunch of bespoke content like all the mini-games and also fully mocapped side content. They could probably just recycle the current ones made for Rebirth. The core story stuff will likely remain untouched and we should still get stuff like the Highwind.
Maybe they make the game better by cutting the grab keys and slap fight minigames. 🤔
I will genuinely not pay Square a dime if they cut the slap fight. Doesn't need to be actual slaps (optics on that would be bad) but I need my Tifa/Scarlet Liquid Ocelot/Solid Snake punch out minigame with suplexes and whatnot.
Along with the snowboarding, it's been my most anticipated moment of FFVIi absurdity ever since this project was announced and was only reinforced when I saw how lavishly they reproduced even random shit like RedXIII football.
Along with the snowboarding, it's been my most anticipated moment of FFVIi absurdity ever since this project was announced and was only reinforced when I saw how lavishly they reproduced even random shit like RedXIII football.
The issue here is that you can't jump into Rebirth or Part 3 without having played the prior games. Part 3 could literally be the greatest game of all time and that wouldn't change the basic barrier to entry there.
You can get away with that with SM2 or GOW R given how "basic" the narratives there are (having so many fewer major characters helps). I'm sure millions have played those without playing the prior game(s). That just isn't going to happen with Rebirth or Part 3. Rebirth is possibly going to be the GOTY yet it can't overcome that barrier in terms of sales (doesn't help that PC/PS4 Remake players are stranded if they don't have a PS5).
This is like OoT and Majora's Mask or any other comparable situation (X/X-2 or XIII/XIII-2/Lightning Returns) where it's really tough to jump into part 2 without having played part 1. And the barrier to entry of part 3 is having played parts 1 + 2, that's a tall ask.
That's likely what they'll do with it. It'll become a full on Street Fighter situation, but probably with QTEs.
... because the director was just given a fat promotion to be the head of CBU1. You don't promote people internally when the board at SE have lost confidence or think you've developed and released a poor product.
I believe the views shared by the doom-posters on here with regards to sales (which are likely sitting in the 2.5 - 3m mark right now) aren't shared by those that actually matter at SE. By the time Part 3 of this trilogy releases in 2027/2028, FF Rebirth will likely be between the 5-6m in terms of sales with a PC release helping to move things along. Remake will be sitting between the 9-10m mark by that time as well, and with the exclusivity deal with Sony, which didn't come cheap back in 2015, they'll probably turn a good profit once it's all said and done.
The trilogy was announced back in 2022 mid-Rebirth cycle. They've likely had everything planned out budgetarily since then, and that they're already well into development on Part 3 with the scenarios all mapped out and voice-acting almost ready to begin, tells me they've had a plan regardless of how well or poorly Rebirth performs.
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Based on the trajectory of the series direction, they could just make FF7 Party Games and see if people notice :P
Director isn't at fault for poor marketing or sales projections. That would be on Kitase as the producer and incidentally he is no longer head of CS1 (still FF brand manager though).
They are confident in Hamaguchi's leaderships skills for game development and that doesn't really have anything to do with whoever was responsible for signing exclusivity deals and whichever way they went about marketing the game. I'm not even sure those people are even still at the company though. The previous CEO is gone and Shinji Hashimoto (previous brand manager) has retired to a cushy advisor job at Sony Music.
They are confident in Hamaguchi's leaderships skills for game development and that doesn't really have anything to do with whoever was responsible for signing exclusivity deals and whichever way they went about marketing the game. I'm not even sure those people are even still at the company though. The previous CEO is gone and Shinji Hashimoto (previous brand manager) has retired to a cushy advisor job at Sony Music.
Exactly. Reused assets, massive experience of the team and big install base by that point will easily ensure enough sales for it to not be a flop.
Why is "Part 3 will be the end of the trilogy" a positive?
That's the biggest negative here; the barrier to entry is arguably the highest on that game of any FF game other than Lightning Returns...; most buyers will be people that played both Remake and Rebirth..., that's a restricted sales pool.
I think long-term sales will be fine (especially of an FF7 trilogy pack which can sell millions of copies later), but I don't see the sales projections for the 3rd game individually being all that bright. Sub 3 million first 12 months wouldn't be all that shocking if Rebirth is around 5-6 million by then.
I mean it's pretty much the best RPG I've played since….FF7 in 1997. It's that good. Word of mouth and multiplatform release will make back any negative sales numbers over time like others have stated. The game is not just good—it's great. It has a metacritic average of 92 with a user score average of 90. The doom posters lurking here are pretty much the robed guys throughout the game looking at few months worth of data and writing off the entire project. Square should be proud of going above and beyond for such a project and I do think down the road this game and the entire trilogy will be remembered as a masterpiece. This game should be a framework for Final Fantasy games moving forward.
This is more about Rebirth sales by the time the 3rd game comes out rather than install base. Getting Remake/Rebirth into more hands so there's more potential buyers of the 3rd game has to be the goal.
Doesn't matter how good the 3rd game is (it could literally be the greatest video game of all time) if they don't get Rebirth into enough players hands...
If any budget cuts happen, it wouldn't be because SE believes they released a poor product. It'd be purely due to sales projections outside of the scope of the actual quality of the games.
I think it's pretty well known that the lion's share of the blame lies with the exclusivity contracts probably signed about a decade ago at this point. Before the project was rebooted, before the Switch became dominant, before Sony all but abandoned their Japanese studios and the market, leading to the JRPG market shifting towards Switch and PC instead.
The actual developers have little control over that, so them getting a promotion despite the sales makes sense. It'd be the people who signed the contracts that deserve the blame.
I don't think it's doom posting to say that this mystical "It's got amazing WoM it'll do 10 million end of year!" is like a real thing. Like where as the legs people are talking about right now, it's lagging behind DD2 in the US which has been on the market for way less time. It's legs seem pretty average in most other regions so far imo.
For the CS1 team games maybe.
But nah, FF needs to have that variety of styles it is known for.
I really don't buy the argument that part 3 will get a sales boost because it finishes the trilogy and everyone who's been waiting on the sidelines for the story to complete will finally jump in. Most of those potential customers will be creating sales for Remake, a percentage of them will then give additional sales to Rebirth, and then a percentage of those players will add to the sales of 3. If part 3 is the size of Rebirth then expecting any significant number of sales to come from people playing the entire trilogy straight through is silly, most people trying with tap out before the end.
Sales will happen within the year no matter what, FFXVI has already been on sale multiple times.
I'm not really gonna bet on Rebirth having amazing legs at this point, but I do think there are still ways to build momentum leading into part 3 at least, depending on how they make the availability of 1 and 2 and market it all.
I don't even like these games, but I would be shocked if major cuts to 3 are made, sales or no sales. This is a prestige/legacy project, and going cheap would damage Square's reputation in ways that a "normal" poorly received game could never.
This isn't wishful thinking on my part, I doubt I'll ever play 2 or 3.
This isn't wishful thinking on my part, I doubt I'll ever play 2 or 3.
I fully expect the sales, I can only hope that they do some major leg work. I'm not too confident on the legs on this one though. Really curious on how things pan out for this and pt.III honestly.
I think at this point Square has to just think about the eventual FF7 Trilogy Pack(s) recouping their investment into the 3rd game. That's the main reason to continue on and make sure the 3rd game is a fitting high quality end to this trilogy even if it doesn't get enough sales individually to cover its cost.
I feel reasonably confident that the FF7 Trilogy pack will be like the FFX/X-2 bundle which has sold over 7 million copies a decade later; plus it'll likely be on platforms where FF7 3rd game won't be (such as Switch 2 or 3) and can be a long term seller over a decade plus.
Feels extremely likely that over time the FF7 Trilogy pack will way outsell the 3rd game (perhaps by a margin of several million over a decade) so that's really the main reason to not try to shortchange the 3rd game.
PC will help but word of mouth doesn't matter for Rebirth, if it did it would have already gotten a boost from the great reviews and reception and it didn't.
I've seen this argument before, but has this ever happened on the industry before?
The whole waiting until the last game to buy the "legendary pack" and increase sales?
It looks to me like wishful thinking.
A later port can equal sizeable success in the case of Dragon Quest XI S on the Switch at least.
If the timing is right, Switch 2 ports of Remake and Rebirth could potentially turn things around (for Rebirth I mean, Remake's sales are pretty good all things considered). I mean, Cloud and Sephiroth were in Smash. Maybe that will help lol.
I just hope they don't do the worst thing ever and delist the original PC ports for a big downgraded version. Still can't believe they did that.
If the timing is right, Switch 2 ports of Remake and Rebirth could potentially turn things around (for Rebirth I mean, Remake's sales are pretty good all things considered). I mean, Cloud and Sephiroth were in Smash. Maybe that will help lol.
I just hope they don't do the worst thing ever and delist the original PC ports for a big downgraded version. Still can't believe they did that.
Day and date Switch 2 and PC release of all 3 games together would do numbers. Especially if part 3 reviews as well as Rebirth.
I'm talking about over the next 3 years when part 3 will release. If you don't think a 90+ metacritic game will have legs then you are sorely mistaken especially when it will release multi platform.
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