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The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,736
Not necessarily.

You could even name it "Final Fantasy VII Remake Part 2: Rebirth."

Remake should've been treated as a brand for the new mainline FF VII games not just a descriptor of the story events.
Yeah I don't think the name is THAT big of a deal, but even for me it wasn't immediately obvious that Rebirth was part 2 when I first of it announced and I belong to the minority of nerds who should be immediately clocked in. Had to remind myself a couple times which part Rebirth was or if it was a spinoff cause I was not following the hype/marketing cycle at every step.

A much more casual person really would have no idea if it's a spinoff or Part 2 or whatever unless they look a lot closer. It just furthers the notion the Remake series is mostly for fans who were already fully invested in playing all 3 games rather than bringing in newer people.

Like I said I don't think it's a Wii U level naming disaster or anything but it's just yet another unnecessary barrier they put up for this game.
 

Androidsleeps

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,605
There's probably multiple reasons why the Final Fantasy franchise in general is shrinking, but as for VII Remake project, splitting this remake into 3 parts was probably not a good idea. I'm not really a Final Fantasy fan but I do remember that VII Remake was like the most wishlisted thing for ages and the hype of the reveal reflected that. I'd imagine I wasn't alone in my surprise to learn that the remake wasn't actually a remake AND that it's a part 1 of 3.
 
I don't think DQ likes can justify a massive budget anymore. This isn't like back in the day when FF was the most accessible and most marketable RPG. Once we got the RPGs traditionally confined to computers on consoles, it's been down hill for the most part ever since(I wanna say it honestly started with oblivion but you could say III as well).
 

DesVoeux

Member
Dec 16, 2023
195
There's probably multiple reasons why the Final Fantasy franchise in general is shrinking, but as for VII Remake project, splitting this remake into 3 parts was probably not a good idea. I'm not really a Final Fantasy fan but I do remember that VII Remake was like the most wishlisted thing for ages and the hype of the reveal reflected that. I'd imagine I wasn't alone in my surprise to learn that the remake wasn't actually a remake AND that it's a part 1 of 3.

You were absolutely not alone.
 

Iceternal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,502
I wonder how many people who didn't buy rebirth because of remake

Not in a "remake sucks" kind of way but because remake kind of has what most people think when they think of FF7

It has the most prominent party members - cloud, Tifa, aerith, and barret

Midgar is the setting people most remember about the game and it ends with a final battle against sephiroth

I bet a ton of people who have tons of casual nostalgia about ff7 played it and went "what a fun game" and stopped paying attention to the rest of the remake universe

This ! Exactly ! I loved every minute of Remake but I remember think I don't care if they don't do a sequel. I was content and had enough nostalgia. Except from the famous Aerith scene and the gold saucer I didn't remember much from the rest of the game.

and they butchered the most important scene in Rebirth too so …
 

Skel1ingt0n

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,786
Well, I just wrapped up Rebirth and it's solidifed itself as probably my favorite JRPG of all time.

This has all the wonderment and scale and breathtaking moments of the original, amped up to 11 and given ample time to breathe and relish in the characters and world.

Shame the game isn't selling super well, but I'm hopeful that - at minimum - it has little affect on Part 3. If they stick the landing, this will end up - as a collective - being my favorite game of all time, dethroning some picks that have lived there for 20+ years.

The only way this works so well for me, personally, is by it being in three parts. So no complaints here.
 

oty

Member
Feb 28, 2023
4,487
There's probably multiple reasons why the Final Fantasy franchise in general is shrinking, but as for VII Remake project, splitting this remake into 3 parts was probably not a good idea. I'm not really a Final Fantasy fan but I do remember that VII Remake was like the most wishlisted thing for ages and the hype of the reveal reflected that. I'd imagine I wasn't alone in my surprise to learn that the remake wasn't actually a remake AND that it's a part 1 of 3.
i struggle to think someone can argue differently lol. a dream come true for the fans, but an astonishingly bad choice financially. imagine locking away one of your best teams for 10+ years in a single remake project
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,818

No new information here beyond some MAU stuff from another analyst. The game had high amount of hours played in its launch month but its the longest FF game outside of the MMOs.

Well that and they talked to people in the industry that said Square could definitely decrease the scope of the third game based on lower projected sales from Rebirth underperforming but I personally think that they will stay the course and hope multiplatform release does well.
 

sfortunato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,740
Italy
Well that and they talked to people in the industry that said Square could definitely decrease the scope of the third game based on lower projected sales from Rebirth underperforming but I personally think that they will stay the course and hope multiplatform release does well.

I don't think at this point the scope of the third game will be decrease much or at all. Economies of scale should help Square completing the game without issues. Remember that FFXVI broke even at 3m units at launch so the third part of FFVII remake could break even at less units given that it's a sequel.

However, I do think Square will not increase the scope or the production budget either with respect to the case Rebirth had sold much more.
 
Jan 1, 2024
1,116
Midgar
I just realised something seeing all the Fallout sales boost news based on the TV show's popularity.

Square's intention with the FF movie and the Compilation of FFVII, and to a lesser extent with XIII (no movie) and XV (video animated movie) was to create a synergy feedback loop between movies and games that would increase sales for both.

Fallout has just done what they have always tried to do, while Rebirth's sales underperform.

If they commissioned a Final Fantasy live action show in a similar vein to Fallout and The Last of Us (did game sales get a boost?), could that potentially boost FF game sales and make FF the behemoth Square need it to be?
 

Spork4000

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,571
I just realised something seeing all the Fallout sales boost news based on the TV show's popularity.

Square's intention with the FF movie and the Compilation of FFVII, and to a lesser extent with XIII (no movie) and XV (video animated movie) was to create a synergy feedback loop between movies and games that would increase sales for both.

Fallout has just done what they have always tried to do, while Rebirth's sales underperform.

If they commissioned a Final Fantasy live action show in a similar vein to Fallout and The Last of Us (did game sales get a boost?), could that potentially boost FF game sales and make FF the behemoth Square need it to be?

I love final fantasy, but nah. Their stories really aren't that appealing to general audiences imo. I can't see what a last of us/fallout/mario movie version of Final Fantasy would be.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,262
Arcane shows it doesn't have to be live action. But this leads to Square has done that with anime projects and CG animation (Advent Children).
Which brings us to it needs to be exceedingly good too and be approachable by audiences that aren't already fans.
You don't need to play league of legends to enjoy Arcane. But how much do you have to like FF7 to get something meaningful out of Advent Children? I guess you can still enjoy the action choreography but is that satisfying enough in itself?
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,818
I just realised something seeing all the Fallout sales boost news based on the TV show's popularity.

Square's intention with the FF movie and the Compilation of FFVII, and to a lesser extent with XIII (no movie) and XV (video animated movie) was to create a synergy feedback loop between movies and games that would increase sales for both.

Fallout has just done what they have always tried to do, while Rebirth's sales underperform.

If they commissioned a Final Fantasy live action show in a similar vein to Fallout and The Last of Us (did game sales get a boost?), could that potentially boost FF game sales and make FF the behemoth Square need it to be?
They've certainly tried with CGI movies multiple times and it didn't do much.

Live action... hard to say. There was one about an old man playing FFXIV with his son that was decently popular in Japan and probably boosted numbers over there.

There was a live action show for XIV being worked on at I think Netflix or Amazon but that fell through.

VII would probably be one of the better choices for a live action show but they would have to change so much that it would end up bad.
 

Vareon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,894
I just realised something seeing all the Fallout sales boost news based on the TV show's popularity.

Square's intention with the FF movie and the Compilation of FFVII, and to a lesser extent with XIII (no movie) and XV (video animated movie) was to create a synergy feedback loop between movies and games that would increase sales for both.

Fallout has just done what they have always tried to do, while Rebirth's sales underperform.

If they commissioned a Final Fantasy live action show in a similar vein to Fallout and The Last of Us (did game sales get a boost?), could that potentially boost FF game sales and make FF the behemoth Square need it to be?

It's a dream executives like to have, but making a live action show is incredibly hard already. Generally you don't want the strategy to revitalize your IP is to create something else that is so outside of your expertise that you need other parties to do it.

Fallout and TLoU weren't made with particular synergy in mind, they're just good shows. Mario, LoL, and CP2077 are fine without their movies/shows, the boost is just nice to have.
 

Rainy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,757
Wasn't there a rumor that they were gonna do a FFIX anime to coincide with that remake's release?
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,254
Singapore
If they commissioned a Final Fantasy live action show in a similar vein to Fallout and The Last of Us (did game sales get a boost?), could that potentially boost FF game sales and make FF the behemoth Square need it to be?
Erm... They did.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwJI9gwCfA4

www.netflix.com

Watch FINAL FANTASY XIV Dad of Light | Netflix Official Site

A father and son rekindle their bond through the online role-playing game Final Fantasy XIV in this live-action series based on a true story.
 

texhnolyze

Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,214
Indonesia

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,254
Singapore
You can't really do it "in the same vein" with FF because there's no actual "FF" story. You can try and promote specific FF brands like they already did before with Advent Children and Last Order (FFVII) and Kingsglaive and Brotherhood (FFXV).

You can't do a series like Fallout or Last of Us that will benefit all the existing games and the games to come because its one cohesive setting. Promoting a FFXV series will not help FFXVI a lot, and promoting a FFXVI series will not really help FFVII or FFXVII. Etc.
 

chocolate

Member
Feb 28, 2018
3,680
Well that and they talked to people in the industry that said Square could definitely decrease the scope of the third game based on lower projected sales from Rebirth underperforming

As much as I hate to say it, that makes sense.

Why would they splurge when the numbers indicate that the third game would be projected to sell even less than Rebirth?

Of course, that is also them shooting themselves in the foot because if the last game isn't that good, and word of mouth gets around, then that would decrease sales even further.

It's not an ideal situation all around.

This all started with Remake, so the fault doesn't necessarily lie with Rebirth.

That game should have been a lot better than what it was if I'm to be frank, so I can't really fault people for falling off and just noping out of the trilogy since it didn't set a good precedent. And I say this as a diehard FF7 fan.
 

demosthenes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,642
I'm playing through remake for the first time and it's ehhh. The main reason im still playing is the nostalgia. I wonder if this turned people off.
 

chocolate

Member
Feb 28, 2018
3,680
I'm playing through remake for the first time and it's ehhh. The main reason im still playing is the nostalgia. I wonder if this turned people off.

It's probably one of the reasons, because it's a pretty steep drop from Remake to Rebirth.

If I take away my love of the characters and world, and just look the game all by itself in a vacuum, it doesn't really offer a varied or compelling experience.

A whole lot of nothing happens plot wise, and the ending causing confusion is enough for some folks to just say "That was ok, but probably not enough for me to want to continue onto the next game."
 

Iceternal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,502
It's probably one of the reasons, because it's a pretty steep drop from Remake to Rebirth.

If I take away my love of the characters and world, and just look the game all by itself in a vacuum, it doesn't really offer a varied or compelling experience.

A whole lot of nothing happens plot wise, and the ending causing confusion is enough for some folks to just say "That was ok, but probably not enough for me to want to continue onto the next game."

Not much happens either in Rebirth.

I actually liked the story of Remake better.
 

chocolate

Member
Feb 28, 2018
3,680
Not much happens either in Rebirth.

I actually liked the story of Remake better.

Yeah that is true. The story is literally follow the black robed figures, and... that's about it.

I think what helps is each area we visit in Rebirth feels very much alive because there are a lot of stories interwoven in there for the player to discover. From the side quests, intel, new characters we meet, etc, at least there's something new to learn for the player about the world you're playing in and its characters.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,151
There's probably multiple reasons why the Final Fantasy franchise in general is shrinking, but as for VII Remake project, splitting this remake into 3 parts was probably not a good idea. I'm not really a Final Fantasy fan but I do remember that VII Remake was like the most wishlisted thing for ages and the hype of the reveal reflected that. I'd imagine I wasn't alone in my surprise to learn that the remake wasn't actually a remake AND that it's a part 1 of 3.
As soon as I learned that I completely ignored the game. I'll be waiting for a full release when it's all finished and bundled
 

Sir Hound

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,209
As soon as I learned that I completely ignored the game. I'll be waiting for a full release when it's all finished and bundled

I get this sentiment and had friends who were also surprised and also didn't get Remake for the same reason. I think both Remake and Rebirth are in my top 10 but holy shit I would not want to play all three parts back to back, I would be begging for mercy. My playtime for the original is usually 30 hours and so far I'm probably at 110 for the whole lot.
 

Joo

Member
May 25, 2018
3,887
As soon as I learned that I completely ignored the game. I'll be waiting for a full release when it's all finished and bundled
With how massive Rebirth is (and Remake isn't exactly a short game either), I bet trying to play all three back to back would pretty likely result in burnout and not enjoying the games as much, or you'd just end dropping the whole thing without finishing. I absolutely love both but could never play all three without anything in between.

My advice is that just get the games now, you won't really gain anything by waiting. It's not like movie trilogies come out at the same time either.
 
Jan 1, 2024
1,116
Midgar
As soon as I learned that I completely ignored the game. I'll be waiting for a full release when it's all finished and bundled
I get this sentiment and had friends who were also surprised and also didn't get Remake for the same reason. I think both Remake and Rebirth are in my top 10 but holy shit I would not want to play all three parts back to back, I would be begging for mercy. My playtime for the original is usually 30 hours and so far I'm probably at 110 for the whole lot.
With how massive Rebirth is (and Remake isn't exactly a short game either), I bet trying to play all three back to back would pretty likely result in burnout and not enjoying the games as much, or you'd end dropping the whole thing without finishing. My advice is that just get the games now, you won't really gain anything by waiting. It's not like movie trilogies come out at the same time either.
The games are full fat games individually. They don't feel like they are episodes. They don't feel they end on cliffhangers, whatever arc they were trying to tell feels resolved at each of their ends. So it's a weird way of looking at it in my opinion.
 

Nakenorm

"This guy are sick"
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
22,401
As soon as I learned that I completely ignored the game. I'll be waiting for a full release when it's all finished and bundled
I still don't get this mindset. I mean I kinda do, I was weirded out by the announcement as well, but the remake project bundled is gonna be +200 hours long. I'd never be able to appreciate something that hefty all at once.
 
Jan 1, 2024
1,116
Midgar
I still don't get this mindset. I mean I kinda do, I was weirded out by the announcement as well, but the remake project bundled is gonna be +200 hours long. I'd never be able to appreciate something that hefty all at once.
I can only understand the mindset if the games were episodic as some feared, but they aren't. They are different games. Just like games in a trilogy.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,404
They are separate games, but I do think the huge amount of time between releases with the slow paced retelling really does hurt the narrative consistency of it. It doesn't feel like each installment is as significant as something like a LOTR film, and we have to wait even longer

If I were doing the 'I will wait' thing, I would probably try and space each release out by like a month in between. I think that would be ideal. Doing it all back to back, no way, there's too much to discover in Rebirth alone and Remake is too slow paced.

That said, I did OG, Remake and Rebirth back to back and was fine, maybe we can overthink these things a bit.
 

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,727
I still don't get this mindset. I mean I kinda do, I was weirded out by the announcement as well, but the remake project bundled is gonna be +200 hours long. I'd never be able to appreciate something that hefty all at once.

I could do them back to back, but I am an insane person who did that with the first 4 Yakuza games after discovering them. But 100% agreed on them all being separate, they're closer to Mass Effect games than episodic like some want to paint them as.

I love final fantasy, but nah. Their stories really aren't that appealing to general audiences imo. I can't see what a last of us/fallout/mario movie version of Final Fantasy would be.

I agree in general, but I think OG FF7's story does land and could be adapted. And I really think it's the only one that could be outside of maybe 6 or an embellished 9.

If they did that and deleted Advent Children from existence so people couldn't follow on to that, it could help in a similar way
 
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Nakenorm

"This guy are sick"
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
22,401
I could do them back to back, but I am an insane person who did that with the first 4 Yakuza games
HOW

I bought 0 and the two Kiwami games and was completely burned out when I got to Kiwami 2. Still haven't gotten past chapter 1 or bought Like A Dragon just for that reason.
 

Concrete1337

Member
Sep 1, 2020
486
I still don't get this mindset. I mean I kinda do, I was weirded out by the announcement as well, but the remake project bundled is gonna be +200 hours long. I'd never be able to appreciate something that hefty all at once.

I guess peoples issue is "does it need to be 200 hours". They wanted a 50h game remade not stretch out over 200. I haven't played rebirth yet. But that's a lot of extra and filler people didn't want necessarily. Especially when in remake I found most of it bad. It's certainly making me wait until rebirth hits a really good sale. Even with good reviews.
 

Iceternal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,502
The games are full fat games individually. They don't feel like they are episodes. They don't feel they end on cliffhangers, whatever arc they were trying to tell feels resolved at each of their ends. So it's a weird way of looking at it in my opinion.

I don't really agree on that. Remake was fine but Rebirth doesn't feel like a stand alone entry. There's just too little plot.

Like half the game before Gongaga is pure light hearted filler. It wouldn't happen in a classic sequel. This very much feels like they just adapted the middle part of a complete story.
 

madbuk

Member
Jul 2, 2022
434
I guess peoples issue is "does it need to be 200 hours". They wanted a 50h game remade not stretch out over 200. I haven't played rebirth yet. But that's a lot of extra and filler people didn't want necessarily. Especially when in remake I found most of it bad. It's certainly making me wait until rebirth hits a really good sale. Even with good reviews.

Nothing related to the main story scenes felt like filler in Remake or Rebirth. Even the sidequests in Rebirth are all solid as well, the only "filler" in that game is Chadley's world intel which is easily ignored. Just because a story is being expanded upon and being given more depth, it doesn't automatically make it filler.
 

5olid_5nake

Member
Oct 30, 2017
517
Honestly I have completed my third playthrough of Remake before Rebirth came out and now in Rebirth I have around 120h and still not finished with the game. I adore it.
When I platinum Rebirth when all is said and done, combined with Remake, I will probably have around 250-300h of playtime (not counting platinum playthrough Remake on launch).

And I plan on playing them again once part 3 releases back to back. It's like a drug, last time I felt this way with some game maybe was with DMC5/MGS5.

And it's not just about the gameplay, it's about everything combined. There isn't a single character that annoys me (on the contrary, they have been written immaculately), music is absolutely perfect and world is just a joy to explore. Not to mention combat, which is in my humble opinion perfect evolution of ATB system. So many combinations to explore...

Everyone mentions how performance mode is blurry and while I can agree on that, on the other side there is a lack of appreciation by just how bug free and stable the game is. Not a single crash or bug, it just works.
Basically the only big thing that I could say that bothers me is that I wished there was more chat between your party while exploring the world, but that means that the game as big as this one, my complaint is that I wish there was more, which is ridiculous.

And that's why it's disheartening to me if more people don't play this game, Square knocked it out of the park with this one.
 

pants

Shinra Employee
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,226
I guess peoples issue is "does it need to be 200 hours". They wanted a 50h game remade not stretch out over 200. I haven't played rebirth yet. But that's a lot of extra and filler people didn't want necessarily. Especially when in remake I found most of it bad. It's certainly making me wait until rebirth hits a really good sale. Even with good reviews.

IIRC people have cleared the game on second playthroughs in 20–30 hours, probably way less if you skip cutscenes and sidequests.

Its much better than Rebirth in terms of padding, at least IMO.