Daniel Ahmad (ZhugeEX) on the MS Xbox Live Gold situation: Gamepass biggest focus moving forward and MS looking to acquire IPs to bolster the service.

BabyDontHurtMe · Jan 23, 2021

I always thought this was pretty obvious. Microsoft is essentially going to treat Xbox as an extension of their fundamental business philosophy. They see gaming as a highly valuable sector and therefore will invest heavily in acquiring the highest number of consumers across the highest number of platforms in order to achieve the greatest revenue. It is a highly mathematical game for them and that's why we saw this pricing fiasco occur. It is good for the consumer that they are responsive to criticisms from consumers. Now, there are barriers to this strategy. One of the biggest ones is PlayStation, who have built a formidable brand that intrinsically generates greater interest in consumers. To avoid having to deal with a gaming goliath the old-fashioned way, Microsoft is pursuing a path of accessibility. Xbox is not strictly a premium brand that requires consumers to invest hundreds of dollars to play the greatest games from them. You can spend 15 dollars a month and use your phone to play Halo Infinite. They are actively building an infrastructure in which consumers can access Xbox content by however they want. PlayStation does not have that luxury (yet.) but they do have the benefit of having the world's most wanted gaming console on the market, next to the Switch. In addition, PlayStation has found themselves in a very comfortable position as far as exclusive content, being compelling enough for consumers to willingly spend upwards of 500 dollars to play their biggest first-party releases.

In case it hasn't been clear already, these two companies are radically different despite sharing the same pursuit. Microsoft's platform agnosticism allows them to be as welcoming to consumers from a financial standpoint. Sony's more rigid platform philosophy allows them to dedicate even more resources to ensure their games and services are of the utmost quality for those on either PS4 or PS5. Microsoft's game is accessibility. Sony's game is sustainability. Sony could of course build their own Game Pass equivalent, but that is clearly not necessary right now. Microsoft on the other hand does not want to rely on their consoles alone and instead invest into a more universal platform, substantiated by third-party companies like Ubisoft embracing cross-platform gaming.

Marano · Jan 23, 2021

PlanetSmasher said:
Especially when someone else buys a huge publisher and locks their games away from Xbox forever.

It is inevitable and I have said this before but MS cant and wont win all the bidding wars when the competition has a lot of money too.

They will win some and lose some to amazon, facebook, google, apple and tencent.

Anyone expecting something different and being disappointed by it in the future has only themselves to blame, might as well accept it now.

Brix · Jan 23, 2021

I believe they'll get more subs when the goty contender games start hitting all year long. Glad they changed their mind about charging $120 for gold. Just grow the GP install base with great games man. Like PlayStation & Nintendo do....

NLCPRESIDENT · Jan 23, 2021

PlanetSmasher said:
Especially when someone else buys a huge publisher and locks their games away from Xbox forever.

I just want to be there when it happens lol

Prine · Jan 23, 2021

Sulik2 said:
I'd like to see Microsoft buy the Metal Gear IP just to watch the internet meltdown.

I'd love that , but mostly because MGS would be back, and get the funding it needs.

NinjaScooter · Jan 23, 2021

Dreams-Visions said:
Does GP really need "bolstering"? It's an incredible service as is, and the games on it are excellent. I mean, no complaining about more...but I'm not sure why they feel it is expressly necessary.

I mean, yeah, if their plan is to grow and expand it to far beyond what it is now (and it's currentaudience) they are going to need fairly big games and names on a monthly basis. The barrier to getting tens of millions of more mainstream consumers to commit to giving you $15-20 a month, every month, is much higher than what it takes to get hardcore fans on a message board to think GP is a great service and a great value.

i like big butts · Jan 23, 2021

Zips said:
I think a lot of people would actually love that just because at least something was being done with that IP instead of just sitting and rotting with Konami.

Prine said:
I'd love that , but mostly because MGS would be back, and get the funding it needs.

The IP itself is incredibly uninteresting without Kojima. I think at this point he's actually probably finally over Metal Gear with his ties to Konami being completely cut. There's no other guy who implements the type of gameplay mechanics and random themes and ideas into his video games. That's the only way a new Metal Gear game would even be actually interesting.

People don't like Metal Gear because there's giant robots and stealth gameplay, they like it because the game has lengthy codec calls where people talk about shit like language as a form of cultural imperialism (eg. European languages being the defacto languages in scientific and professional environments) and shitty 60s exploitation horror flicks.

I don't think any other developer could emulate the style because no other developer even talks about the shit Kojima talks about in his games.

hydrophilic attack · Jan 23, 2021

and to think, around half a year ago, people were completely convinced they'd cut the xblg requirement for online entirely lol

Myself · Jan 23, 2021

InRainbows said:
there have been many sales available to everyone

and when they buy more and make more games the value will increase more and more. The value in 3 years from now will be absolutely insane. And I think its worth full price right now.

I don't think the price is high at all. Im sampling the content that's available.

you get so much more value than a handful of 60-70 dollar full price games at their launch
im playing games and genres I wouldn't even payed attention to their existence before

Look, I did the Xbox Live "trick" and so I got 3 years for really cheap. My monthly cost comes out to about NZ$5 which is about $3 US. At that price yeah it's a no brainer and tonnes of value but I am talking about when I have to pay regular price. It's NZ$20 here. I buy games for about that price second hand and so for me, from a simple $$ to game calculation if a game takes me more than a month to complete (Most of the games I buy would) then it doesn't add up. Sure there's value in sampling other games and I have discovered some franchises that I would not have discovered/played before so that is part of the calculation, but here I'm just talking $$ to game. It's too much for me at retail price.

NWCR said:
This doesn't make sense. You can't compare Game Pass price to Netflix, movies and TV shows are much cheaper to get as opposed to a game. If a game is 70$ to buy, but its 15$ to play on Game Pass. Which one are people going to choose? Most likely Game Pass

I hope I was clear that I was talking about me; someone who happily buys secondhand physical for about NZ$20-30 a game.NZ$20 for GPU a month, as mentioned above needs me to complete a game every month for it not to be cheaper to just buy second hand games when I want.

Kasey said:
Game Pass has enough variety for multiple people to get something out of it. Hell, the family friendly games alone justify the price if you have kids.

I have played Minecraft Dungeons with my kids, but that's about it. See above for general issues with the cost.

One thing to note is that I could potentially just get GP console, not Ultimate which is about NZ$13 a month, so a game ever 2 months justifies the cost but I'd be pushing that with the sorts of games I like (Big open worlds etc). If I was someone who loved indies and played a lot of them then it might be worth it because they are only available digital anyway.

And we have to remember, Gamepass is a rental service. When the games disappear, which all non-first party games will eventually then you can't play them again without buying them so you have paid rental + purchase if you liked them.

It's an interesting proposition hat looks amazing on the surface but I am not totally sold on it yet.

Governergrimm · Jan 23, 2021

strife418 said:
Hate how everything has to be acquired now. In the ps1/ps2 era sony could have bought many due to dominance, but they didn't. Same for Nintendo in some gens.

The dominance ensured they didn't need to acquire the company. Being behind could mean it's more efficient to acquire the company than buy exclusivity.

strife85 · Jan 23, 2021

MiDoZ said:
Bend Studio, Acquired
Guerrilla Games, Acquired
Insomniac Games, Acquired
Media Molecule, Acquired
Naughty Dog, Acquired
Sucker Punch Productions, Acquired
Bigbig Studios, Acquired, Closed
Evolution Studios, Acquired, Closed
Incognito Entertainment, Acquired, Closed
Studio Liverpool, Acquired, Closed
Zipper Interactive, Acquired, Closed

like 5-6 of those were in the ps3+ era, I said in the ps1/2 era when they were most dominant(until ps4 again). Also, those don't compare to buying a publisher..

Dolce · Jan 23, 2021

strife418 said:
like 5-6 of those were in the ps3+ era, I said in the ps1/2 era when they were most dominant(until ps4 again). Also, those don't compare to buying a publisher..

They bought Psygnosis who had a history of publishing titles all the way into the 80s. In terms of output their history may be even larger than Bethesdas. But that was a different era and you can't compare it. That was back in the early 1990s and because Sony was attempting to enter the Western market with their new PS1. They knew they couldn't just magically grow a bunch of studios overnight when they needed them. Psygnosis were a huge part of the early PS1 days.

So yes, Sony bought an entire publisher before entering the home console market to shore up development on their platform.

Fiery Phoenix · Jan 23, 2021

Yeah, the writing was on the wall. It was an attempt to strongarm you to sign up for GamePass.

dragonflys545 · Jan 23, 2021

NWCR said:
They don't have a significant EU presence because they don't release great exclusive AAA games. Make great exclusive AAA games and people will come to your platform. I think they will have a good amount of those this gen as opposed to last gen

Also, the "PC isn't enough to make up the difference" take is false. Sea of Thieves is a success cause of PC. Bethesda's community is on PC. Fallout 4 sold 1.2 million in 24 hours on Steam. They'll be fine on the sales front cause of PC

Sure. Just like how people sub to Disney+ to watch Mandalorian and then unsub. But theres people that will stay for your current content and your future content

They aren't. Theres millions of gamers that are satisfied with getting scammed by EA/2k every year. We are savvy, cause we're hardcore, but the casual are not savvy. I definitely would not label them that

And maybe some are suffering now, but its for long-term gain. WB just tanked their whole 2021 movie lineup (Wonder Woman 2, Dune, Suicide Squad, Kong vs Godzilla, ect) for HBO Max and they are going to get millions of subs for it.

It's funny you say that... I did that with the gamepass perk that got me a free month of Disney+ and I unsubbed last night after I finished season 1 and 2. because there's nothing else there worth my time.

i like big butts · Jan 23, 2021

Myself said:
I have played Minecraft Dungeons with my kids, but that's about it. See above for general issues with the cost.

One thing to note is that I could potentially just get GP console, not Ultimate which is about NZ$13 a month, so a game ever 2 months justifies the cost but I'd be pushing that with the sorts of games I like (Big open worlds etc). If I was someone who loved indies and played a lot of them then it might be worth it because they are only available digital anyway.

And we have to remember, Gamepass is a rental service. When the games disappear, which all non-first party games will eventually then you can't play them again without buying them so you have paid rental + purchase if you liked them.

It's an interesting proposition hat looks amazing on the surface but I am not totally sold on it yet.

Gamepass' main problem compared to video streaming services is the amount of time investment and the general poor structure of video games compared to episodic TV-like content.

I've got the same problem as you. Gamepass with me abusing Xbox Live Gold prices in various ways is fantastic value. At close to Australia's MSRP, its incredibly poor value for my use case because I actually don't get through many games and the games I do go through tend to be incredibly lengthy. There's more value in me buying a game in below MSRP at an Australian retailer after launch and keep that game so me, my friends and work colleagues can swap physical copies of games around when we're done.

I think that's the main problem if it wants to expand the service to the point that basically every household has it.

I work 9-5, play miniature wargaming, play basketball at the local rec center, then go out with friends to do shit during the weekend. I've got maybe two hours on average where I have some free time to play video games. When I watched Fargo, I found out that one single episode was pretty much enough before I'm pretty much done for the night and ready to go to sleep. And I'm a single male with their own house.

I mean, I'm still playing Judgement and I've been playing for like 3 months.

Bxrz · Jan 23, 2021

dragonflys545 said:
It's funny you say that... I did that with the gamepass perk that got me a free month of Disney+ and I unsubbed last night after I finished season 1 and 2. because there's nothing else there worth my time.

Yea Disney+ is in its infant stages right now but they have 90 million subs off old content and 1 big new show. Just one. I know they are in the middle of Wandavision but we don't know if its good yet

Point is, make good content and people will come. Just like with every subscription service.

KodiakGTS · Jan 23, 2021

Honestly GamePass only has 2 things it needs. Two great (85+) AAA exclusives per year, and marketing. That's it. You do that and you already have your $180 value, since XBL gold is baked in.

I'd say they had two exceptional exclusives this year (Ori and Flight Sim) but one was AA and one was niche. I think with the studio count they have now they should be set going forward, but more content is always better I suppose.

Mugen X · Jan 23, 2021

Sulik2 said:
I'd like to see Microsoft buy the Metal Gear IP just to watch the internet meltdown.

Shoshi · Jan 23, 2021

Gravijah said:
They bought Psygnosis who had a history of publishing titles all the way into the 80s. In terms of output their history may be even larger than Bethesdas. But that was a different era and you can't compare it. That was back in the early 1990s and because Sony was attempting to enter the Western market with their new PS1. They knew they couldn't just magically grow a bunch of studios overnight when they needed them. Psygnosis were a huge part of the early PS1 days.

So yes, Sony bought an entire publisher before entering the home console market to shore up development on their platform.

But Wipeout games got still released on both Sony and Sega's consoles.

Dolce · Jan 23, 2021

Shoshi said:
But Wipeout got released on both Sony and Sega's consoles.

Yes. Sony owned them then, they allowed them to continue publishing. But then they eventually stopped that.

Similar is likely to happen with Bethesda for Microsoft.

Pryme · Jan 23, 2021

NLCPRESIDENT said:
I just want to be there when it happens lol

But you'll also be there complaining, since it's more likely to be one of the other big tech companies picking up a major publisher.

strife418 said:
like 5-6 of those were in the ps3+ era, I said in the ps1/2 era when they were most dominant(until ps4 again). Also, those don't compare to buying a publisher..

It all boils down to driving sales with exclusivity. And they aggressively pursued that during their dominant PS4 generation, ramped up even further in the early days of the PS5.

Zips · Jan 23, 2021

i like big butts said:
The IP itself is incredibly uninteresting without Kojima. I think at this point he's actually probably finally over Metal Gear with his ties to Konami being completely cut. There's no other guy who implements the type of gameplay mechanics and random themes and ideas into his video games. That's the only way a new Metal Gear game would even be actually interesting.

People don't like Metal Gear because there's giant robots and stealth gameplay, they like it because the game has lengthy codec calls where people talk about shit like language as a form of cultural imperialism (eg. European languages being the defacto languages in scientific and professional environments) and shitty 60s exploitation horror flicks.

I don't think any other developer could emulate the style because no other developer even talks about the shit Kojima talks about in his games.

I can't say that I full agree with this. I've loved the Metal Gear games for years and if it did away with a lot of the ham-fisted nonsense in the codec calls, I think I'd still be perfectly fine with that. I loved the gameplay and the stealth aspects of it all. I have confidence that there are many creators out there that could do the franchise some measure of justice if given the opportunity and resources. We simply don't really know what a non-Kojima MGS would necessarily be at this point.

brain_stew · Jan 24, 2021

PlanetSmasher said:
Exactly. There's virtually no benefit to Nintendo or Sony taking Game Pass. It almost exclusively benefits Microsoft at the expense of the other platform.

Any version of Game Pass on PlayStation or Switch would be more like EA Play on Steam where it is first party content only. That also helps MS eat the cut from the platform holder as they have a reduced license cost for those subscribers.

So it would be a subscription for games that wouldn't that wouldn't be on their platform otherwise.

I don't think we're at the point where Microsoft first party is strong enough to make that appealing but if we're a couple of years down the line and they've purchased another 2 major publishers (Sega and ???) then it may become a different proposition altogether.

PlanetSmasher · Jan 24, 2021

brain_stew said:
Any version of Game Pass on PlayStation or Switch would be more like EA Play on Steam where it is first party content only. That also helps MS eat the cut from the platform holder as they have a reduced license cost for those subscribers.

So it would be a subscription for games that wouldn't that wouldn't be on their platform otherwise.

I don't think we're at the point where Microsoft first party is strong enough to make that appealing but if we're a couple of years down the line and they've purchased another 2 major publishers (Sega and ???) then it may become a different proposition altogether.

Microsoft would never actually allow that, though. They would only want 'real' Game Pass because they know that deal disproportionately benefits them over Sony or Nintendo.

Myself · Jan 24, 2021

i like big butts said:
Gamepass' main problem compared to video streaming services is the amount of time investment and the general poor structure of video games compared to episodic TV-like content.

I've got the same problem as you. Gamepass with me abusing Xbox Live Gold prices in various ways is fantastic value. At close to Australia's MSRP, its incredibly poor value for my use case because I actually don't get through many games and the games I do go through tend to be incredibly lengthy. There's more value in me buying a game in below MSRP at an Australian retailer after launch and keep that game so me, my friends and work colleagues can swap physical copies of games around when we're done.

I think that's the main problem if it wants to expand the service to the point that basically every household has it.

I work 9-5, play miniature wargaming, play basketball at the local rec center, then go out with friends to do shit during the weekend. I've got maybe two hours on average where I have some free time to play video games. When I watched Fargo, I found out that one single episode was pretty much enough before I'm pretty much done for the night and ready to go to sleep. And I'm a single male with their own house.

I mean, I'm still playing Judgement and I've been playing for like 3 months.

Yeah. I imagine if you're a teenager living at home and have nothing to do but game you might get insane value at RRP but for people like you and me where we get a couple of hours at a time and play long games, it's hard to see more value than buying (And owning) games. There's been times where I haven't games for a couple of months that would just be wasted money whereas I almost always have watched enough movies or shows on Netflix to justify the cost, especially when you add in what my wife and kids watch. For someone like me I would probably keep it if it was NZ$5-10 a month but maybe not more.

As you say, games require more investment of time and effort - it's a little like a gym subscription to me in a way. Lots of people sub to gyms but many inevitably don't go enough and will cancel in the end due to the huge energy and time investment required.

It's going to be interesting to see how they can sell the value proposition in the long term. They certainly can't be wanting to run the service on new people only (Who eventually quit due to the cost).

brain_stew · Jan 24, 2021

PlanetSmasher said:
Microsoft would never actually allow that, though. They would only want 'real' Game Pass because they know that deal disproportionately benefits them over Sony or Nintendo.

Why wouldn't they? It's growing their subscriber base and subscription revenue that Microsoft are ultimately interested in, and that arrangement would serve that end.

TripleBee · Jan 24, 2021

I mean $15 is almost nothing to most people. My sandwich for lunch today was $15. So I the value proposition is pretty decent.

tok9 · Jan 24, 2021

One of the main reasons I haven't subscribed to Gamepass longterm is due to the lack of a yearly option. If that continues, and assuming the current price deals of $1 a month stop, I'd be pretty surprised if there is constant high subscription numbers. At least in terms of core gamers (I guess the small audience in terms of what they want) I feel like they will jump in every few months to play the games they want and then jump off again.

Of course, if there actually is a very steady supply of 1st party content, maybe that won't be the case.

nekkid · Jan 24, 2021

Marano said:
Just edited everything to make it better.

I wasn't criticising you just in case you thought I was! I was just commenting on how bloody awkward it is to do.

gremlinz1982 · Jan 24, 2021

NLCPRESIDENT said:
I just want to be there when it happens lol

Move where the games you want to play are. I know of a good amount of friends (and myself) that got the original Xbox just because Dead or Alive 3 was exclusive. There were a lot of people that got the PlayStation just because Final Fantasy was moving there.

Amazing how well this works.

Knight613 · Jan 24, 2021

TripleBee said:
I mean $15 is almost nothing to most people. My sandwich for lunch today was $15. So I the value proposition is pretty decent.

I would argue most people are actually in debt and adding more subscriptions to their lives even if it sounds good is probably not something most rush to do.

NLCPRESIDENT · Jan 24, 2021

Pryme said:
But you'll also be there complaining, since it's more likely to be one of the other big tech companies picking up a major publisher.

Hmm.. I can't foresee a problem to complain about.

What's this about Metal Gear now?😆

gremlinz1982 said:
Move where the games you want to play are. I know of a good amount of friends (and myself) that got the original Xbox just because Dead or Alive 3 was exclusive. There were a lot of people that got the PlayStation just because Final Fantasy was moving there.

Amazing how well this works.

Tell me about, I got the og Xbox day 1 and every Xbox up to the series x I have now. Back then I didn't think about "exclusive games" they were just more games.

Still wanna be there for the meltdowns when Sony uses their food stamps for the next acquisition. Lol.

RavenK92 · Jan 24, 2021

It was always obvious what the eventual plan with GamePass was, but seeing it laid out in black and white like that along with the reminder MS sent over the weekend that they'll happily bend over a support base of millions gives me an icky feeling about what's gonna happen once they've succeeded in getting a massive user base locked into GP by acquiring the majority of devs and have more power to make ultimatums for more money by locking people out of their libraries... This is why I'm against consolidation and support the buy a physical copy outright and get to keep it gaming model

Bradbatross · Jan 24, 2021

Game Pass is the future.

T0kenAussie · Jan 24, 2021

strife418 said:
like 5-6 of those were in the ps3+ era, I said in the ps1/2 era when they were most dominant(until ps4 again). Also, those don't compare to buying a publisher..

Love the goal post shifting. A tried and true internet sport

Marano · Jan 24, 2021

nekkid said:
I wasn't criticising you just in case you thought I was! I was just commenting on how bloody awkward it is to do.

No prob, someone showed me a better way here.

Deleted member 23046 · Jan 24, 2021

Mugen X said:
They've already bought up a lot of studios, so idk how many they want but clearly they're not gonna stop until they feel the value is undeniable for consumers. I think they want to rack up subscriptions and operate at a loss for a few years since prices are relatively cheap, but eventually they'll rise and they'll start to profit. Imo none of that happens tho without acquisitions to bolster gamepass's catalogue.

What I wanted to say is they won't wait ten years for results : admitting it wasn't a prank, the sudden move made this week wasn't for the greed but for a need, and not the need of treasury but regular cash-flow. There is surely a time for investments, but like you said, and if the Yoshida-Nadella handshake had to prove something, MS gaming activities aren't mandatory tied to the Xbox hardware.

Nuclear Detergent · Jan 24, 2021

Good analysis!

Usually you would see a slight price increase, to retain as many customers as possible, and not rustle any feathers - but MS wants to show numbers in the short term, and cant afford to raise prices slowly over several years, thus the extreme price hike to move subs to GPU -now-.

I am fairly amazed that the Gold to GPU conversion scheme haven't onboarded enough subs for MS to be content in the short term. Perhaps the scheme is too convoluted: why not just straight up offer existing customers the $1 conversion in clear messaging, or push it as heavily as Youtube tries to push Youtube premium?

i like big butts · Jan 24, 2021

Zips said:
I can't say that I full agree with this. I've loved the Metal Gear games for years and if it did away with a lot of the ham-fisted nonsense in the codec calls, I think I'd still be perfectly fine with that. I loved the gameplay and the stealth aspects of it all. I have confidence that there are many creators out there that could do the franchise some measure of justice if given the opportunity and resources. We simply don't really know what a non-Kojima MGS would necessarily be at this point.

Which then you might as well just bring back Splinter Cell or make a new franchise.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the ham fisted nonsense is the basis of the Metal Gear experience. Even Metal Gear Rising was all in that nonsense.

Metal Gear without Snake losing sleep from Paramedic telling him about vampires or Zadornov escaping from his cell like 50 times for plot reasons isn't Metal Gear.

Izanagi89 · Jan 24, 2021

Bradbatross said:
Game Pass is the future.

Lol okay

gremlinz1982 · Jan 24, 2021

NLCPRESIDENT said:
Tell me about, I got the og Xbox day 1 and every Xbox up to the series x I have now. Back then I didn't think about "exclusive games" they were just more games.

Still wanna be there for the meltdowns when Sony uses their food stamps for the next acquisition. Lol.

Things sometimes get exaggerated on here, and blown out of proportion. The Zenimax deal was something that no one expected and as such, an aspect that some are still trying to make sense of. Sony, was looking to grow their first party studios, stated that they would be looking to expanding even it meant mergers and acquisitions.

They will happen, and life as always, will move on.

Senator Rains · Jan 24, 2021

It's still a very scummy way of doing it. They've could've added more benefits to GPU, even temporary ones such as more discounts or a lower entry price for the first year. That with a little bit of marketing will make the COD/Madden crowd consider it as something extra for just a few bucks. They just need people to stick with GPU for a while before it becomes a necessity.

I really hope people who panic bought Gold subs push for a refund.

Nuclear Muffin · Jan 24, 2021

Zhuge confirming what most of us already knew.

Xbox is becoming a service; eventually there will be nothing but Gamepass. No hardware, no XBL Gold, no retail releases.

Xbox is aiming to become Netflix. But this won't happen overnight, it's gonna take the better part of a decade before Gamepass truly becomes a self sustaining success.

The big question at the moment though is, can Microsoft sustain Gamepass for that long? Can they justify burning billions for 7-10 years before it really starts turning a profit?

Myself · Jan 24, 2021

Nuclear Muffin said:
Zhuge confirming what most of us already knew.

Xbox is becoming a service; eventually there will be nothing but Gamepass. No hardware, no XBL Gold, no retail releases.

Xbox is aiming to become Netflix. But this won't happen overnight, it's gonna take the better part of a decade before Gamepass truly becomes a self sustaining success.

The big question at the moment though is, can Microsoft sustain Gamepass for that long? Can they justify burning billions for 7-10 years before it really starts turning a profit?

It's going to take a long time because I would bet there's several orders of magnitude more people that watch movies/TV than play "high end" games like you see on console and PC.

If GamePass had Games and Music and TV/Movies on the level of Netflix, maybe then it'd be worth it.....

NLCPRESIDENT · Jan 24, 2021

gremlinz1982 said:
Things sometimes get exaggerated on here, and blown out of proportion. The Zenimax deal was something that no one expected and as such, an aspect that some are still trying to make sense of. Sony, was looking to grow their first party studios, stated that they would be looking to expanding even it meant mergers and acquisitions.

They will happen, and life as always, will move on.

Now this.. this I agree with 100%. And tbh, I don't look forward to meltdowns. If I had it my way, MS and Sony would co-op to produce one console with all the benefits from both.

Marano · Jan 24, 2021

Nuclear Muffin said:
Zhuge confirming what most of us already knew.

Xbox is becoming a service; eventually there will be nothing but Gamepass. No hardware, no XBL Gold, no retail releases.

Xbox is aiming to become Netflix. But this won't happen overnight, it's gonna take the better part of a decade before Gamepass truly becomes a self sustaining success.

The big question at the moment though is, can Microsoft sustain Gamepass for that long? Can they justify burning billions for 7-10 years before it really starts turning a profit?

People keep saying this but they have a popular console and leverage the hardware and third party games there to propel gameass, it is a big advantage they have over luna and stadia, their store on PC at the moment ks disliked and misses out ln a ton of third party games plus they leverage 4 generations of xbox games on gamepass, if they no longer have xbox hardware all that goes out of the window... Having two 9th gen consoles should tell you everything you need to know about their intentions plus these things are so popular they sell out instantly.

Abandoning hardware makes no sdnse for them.

Desodeset · Jan 24, 2021

Microsoft is definitely having a headstart, but Tencent acquired/has stakes in a ton of developers. Only Riot Games is on the level of Bethesda. I am very worried about their next target.

Also, there are some things in mind:

1. Acquisition of IP - is it necessary to mean acquiring studios? Isn't it a term that is used for bringing content on your platform (publishing deals, timed exclusive deals, console exclusive deals and so on);
2. Will GamePass be successful in mobile space? Mobile crowd is totally different for PC/Console one. Given the fact that mobile gaming will be larger part of the industry, the service might have it's limitations by actually attracting only console/pc players. Of course that doesn't mean it won't be successful;

Acidote · Jan 24, 2021

Prine said:
I'd love that , but mostly because MGS would be back, and get the funding it needs.

I'm broken. I read MGS as Microsoft Game Studios and my brain glitched for a few seconds.

VeePs · Jan 24, 2021

Desodeset said:
1. Acquisition of IP - is it necessary to mean acquiring studios? Isn't it a term that is used for bringing content on your platform (publishing deals, timed exclusive deals, console exclusive deals and so on);

I would guess they are trying to gain permanent exclusives and not timed ones. But again - that's just a guess.

When you own a subscription service, content is king. Yea, you might attract some gamers with Final Fantasy XV today on your service, but what happens when that disappears in a year? Someone who might have subscribed because they saw you had FFXV, Halo Infinite, and Yakuza 6 but they find out only Halo Infinite remains may not want to subscribe anymore.

If you're investing in content for a subscription service, you might as well pay for content that you know will stay on your service.

That's how I view the statement and business.

Desodeset said:
2. Will GamePass be successful in mobile space? Mobile crowd is totally different for PC/Console one. Given the fact that mobile gaming will be larger part of the industry, the service might have it's limitations by actually attracting only console/pc players. Of course that doesn't mean it won't be successful;

Great question. I'm curious as well. It seems to be doing well in some countries like South Korea but I'm sure Microsoft wants it to grow. It is coming to iOS and maybe Smart TVs later this year so we'll see.

As someone who lives in the US tho, we need to get rid of data caps. Fuck Ajit Pai. Glad he's gone.

Sems4arsenal · Jan 24, 2021

Maybe one day, all you'll need is a TV and a controller to play.

But this becoming the norm is a long ways away.

Daniel Ahmad (ZhugeEX) on the MS Xbox Live Gold situation: Gamepass biggest focus moving forward and MS looking to acquire IPs to bolster the service.

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