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excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,347
Got it.
I'm black, and I asked about you been white because sometimes, among my white friends, or random posts on internet (including Era), if the person is white and left wing, or part of a group fighting against the right wing and conservatives, it seems like something is missing on translation when someone bring up hipocrisy and white privilege in a non-straight-male group, like Chappelle have been doing with his latest specials.

In most recent years, at the same time it was amazing to see oppressed people in general get into platforms and find ways to raise the voice and bring awareness to issues, it's also easy to spot how most of these voices still very white when the topic is not about racism. And this reflects on how the conversations are progressing, how issues are heard, how it is solved, how moderation on internet platforms works, even on Era. Because of that, I started to dig black feminism channels and debates, black LGBTQ channels, instead of open groups, and some stories are really awful to hear, how white feminists and white LGBTQ still treat black people. We like to think everyone holds hands together in the same boat, but that's not happening. Even during elections, the major voice of progressives, Bernie, has answers to issues that affect women and LGBTQ groups, but when asked about issues that affects directly and only blacks, he has no answers ready.

That said, I understand where most of criticism on Chappelle is coming from, but I think most of this criticism still coming from white people, and some of his metaphors and pokes about white privilege are lost in translation. And I think it would be really nice to see criticism coming from black LGBTQ, black feminists, that are involved on debates about white supremacy on their own groups.

Chappelle is not criticizing the whiteness of trans activism

He just wants to say men who think they're women?! Can you believe it! Weirdos!

*pause for laugh*

Chappelle offers zero insight into anything trans related because his jokes are bottom of the barrel our very existence is the punchline shit we've seen for ages.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Like seriously. The MJ stuff. The Anthony Bourdian stuff. The transphobic stuff. Just so much garbage and mean-spited-ness. Disappointing is definitely a word.

If anyone who is transgender, a victim of sexual assault or harassment, or has they themselves suffered from depression/suicidal ideation, or anyone else who identifies with any of the messed up stuff he joked about is reading this thread and totally bummed out by some of these reactions, I get you, but also know that nonetheless there are people out there that love you and your life has value and worth and there are people like me out there sending you all the love we can, and that pieces of garbage like this ain't worth it because no matter what they might say, you're you and that's enough and you're absolutely worth all the love in the world no matter what anyone else may say and I'm wishing for both the best possible now and future for you that I can. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
I'll be honest I've been institutionalized in a mental hospital for an extended period on suicide watch in the past and I have struggled with major depressive disorder for over 20 years and I thought the Anthony Bourdain bit was absolutely hilarious. Tragedy is hilarious. The irony of it's cruelty is what makes it funny. And the irony that someone with deep privilege and a good life can want to end their lives and somehow people that face deep external existential hardship can keep trucking along and not even bat an eye IS hilarious.

Life makes absolutely no sense, and that's why it's funny.

So while I appreciate your sensitivity, it also for me can come off as a bit patronizing from the perspective of someone who has lived it the vast majority of my life and laughing at it like Dave Chapelle's jokes made me do, has done more for my mental health than any "positivity" movement ever has.

But that's ok, because people cope in all sorts of different ways.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Chappelle is not criticizing the whiteness of trans activism

He just wants to say men who think they're women?! Can you believe it! Weirdos!

*pause for laugh*

Chappelle offers zero insight into anything trans related because his jokes are bottom of the barrel our very existence is the punchline shit we've seen for ages.
Ok did you not watch the special? because this is literally not true. He even succinctly points out the issues of "pecking order" in the lgbtq community and how they are actually separate communities and goes out of his way to point out that trans people are shit upon from every which direction and even within the lgbt community for wanting simple rights like being able to use the bathroom of their gender preference. And as a Bi person dating a Bi person, we were both surprised how right he even got the biphobia among lgbtq groups right. My girlfriend has literally had nasty things said to her face by lesbians because she was interested in both men and women.

I could do without some of the cheap laughs crap that he does too, but it's absolutely not true that he has NOTHING insightful to say.
 

Etain

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,800
Ugh, probably should've asked my brother to just watch it alone, that took me by surprise and what I heard of the transphobic stuff just really dragged me down.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,347
Ok did you not watch the special? because this is literally not true. He even succinctly points out the issues of "pecking order" in the lgbtq community and how they are actually separate communities and goes out of his way to point out that trans people are shit upon from every which direction and even within the lgbt community for wanting simple rights like being able to use the bathroom of their gender preference.

I could do without some of the cheap laughs crap that he does too, but it's absolutely not true that he has NOTHING insightful to say.

Yeah we're at the bottom because people like him help put us there
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,347
I could do without some of the cheap laughs crap that he does too, but it's absolutely not true that he has NOTHING insightful to say.

Sidenote imagine hand waving bigotry against other groups like this

It's exactly proof positive trans folk are socially acceptable to shit on still. Bigotry against us is just something folks could do without but....
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Sidenote imagine hand waving bigotry against other groups like this

It's exactly proof positive trans folk are socially acceptable to shit on still. Bigotry against us is just something folks could do without but....
No, please don't interpret what I'm saying in the most uncharitable way.

I'm absolutely against hateful rhetoric and bigotry, but I can also see from the context of comedy someone clumsily trying to navigate difficult subject matter and just not framing it correctly. It's all difficult and murky, at least if you are trying to do provocative art.

But in all honesty it seems like Chapelle just shouldn't touch this subject matter as its clearly not landing with the people it's most important that it land with (trans people).
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,347
No, please don't interpret what I'm saying in the most uncharitable way.

I'm absolutely against hateful rhetoric and bigotry, but I can also see from the context of comedy someone clumsily trying to navigate difficult subject matter and just not framing it correctly. It's all difficult and murky, at least if you are trying to do provocative art.

But in all honesty it seems like Chapelle just shouldn't touch this subject matter as its clearly not landing with the people it's most important that it land with (trans people).

Chappelle's problem isn't that his jokes aren't landing. Chappelle's problem is that he's transphobic.
 

Afro_Ninja

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
195
Yeah we're at the bottom because people like him help put us there
I'm really sorry, this is really fucked up, and that's part of what he has been saying, and by consequence, perpetuate it himself: marginalized groups shitting on each other, skipping acknowledge of their own privileges and bigotry towards other groups.

I had the same conversation with a white lesbian really close friend, and I will ask the same stuff:
Are you absolute sure your group does not pass the same bigotry forward to a less privileged group?
Are you white?
If you are white, how many black trans are part of your day to day close group?

Talking with this friend of mine, she started saying her movement was for all LGBTQ people.
Later, she said it was for all lesbians because she noticed her lesbians friends used to give a hard time to other LGBTQ communities.
In the end, when she noticed there was never a black lesbian on her group, that her group never tried to reach for black lesbians to listen to their pain and how white lesbian pass bigotry forward to them, she acknowledged her movement was all for white lesbians.

I'm saying that because it's clear on all recent Chappelle specials that he mirrors prejudice, bigotry, with different perspectives.
This is lacking on the left, and I think sometimes is because marginalized people have enough pain to deal with and can't put much more effort to invest in others people pain, but sometimes people are just selfish.

So, it's inevitable that the Chappelle output will still be coming from a black dude, but I think someone bringing this parallels, on a format like Netflix, has value.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,347
I'm really sorry, this is really fucked up, and that's part of what he has been saying, and by consequence, perpetuate it himself: marginalized groups shitting on each other, skipping acknowledge of their own privileges and bigotry towards other groups.

I had the same conversation with a white lesbian really close friend, and I will ask the same stuff:
Are you absolute sure your group does not pass the same bigotry forward to a less privileged group?
Are you white?
If you are white, how many black trans are part of your day to day close group?

Talking with this friend of mine, she started saying her movement was for all LGBTQ people.
Later, she said it was for all lesbians because she noticed her lesbians friends used to give a hard time to other LGBTQ communities.
In the end, when she noticed there was never a black lesbian on her group, that her group never tried to reach for black lesbians to listen to their pain and how white lesbian pass bigotry forward to them, she acknowledged her movement was all for white lesbians.

I'm saying that because it's clear on all recent Chappelle specials that he mirrors prejudice, bigotry, with different perspectives.
This is lacking on the left, and I think sometimes is because marginalized people have enough pain to deal with and can't put much more effort to invest in others people pain, but sometimes people are just selfish.

So, it's inevitable that the Chappelle output will still be coming from a black dude, but I think someone bringing this parallels, on a format like Netflix, has value.

Dave Chappelle is a rich straight cis man with a giant platform encouraging people to laugh at trans folks' very existence. He makes it ok for people to laugh at us, trans women used to be/are men hahahaha.

You know what's fucked up, you pretending that that has value.

Chappelle isn't criticizing the white face of trans culture when he goes for the lowest hanging fruit to shit on is with.

Honestly yes or no do you think Chappelle has the ability to do harm/oppression against the trans community
 

roflwaffles

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,138
Huge Chappelle fan here, thought this special was kind of whatever. The first half was oof and the second wasn't bad.

I liked the epilogue much more - it felt just like going to one of his shows in person.
 
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Lifejumper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,602
What happened to the chappelle that went on inside the actors studio and gave one the best and inspiring interviews I have ever watched.

Sigh.

Time makes most people bitter and cynical I guess.

Segment of the interview:


Edit: meant to post this in the other thread. I enjoyed the special in general but some of the jokes were ughhhhhh.
 
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Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
What happened to the chappelle that went on inside the actors studio and gave one the best and inspiring interviews I have ever watched.

Sigh.

Time makes most people bitter and cynical I guess.

Segment of the interview:


Edit: meant to post this in the other thread. I enjoyed the special in general but some of the jokes were ughhhhhh.

I mean look at the world we are living in
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,945
Easily the best of his Netflix specials and the epilogue honestly should just be tacked on to the main thing so nobody misses it.
 

Afro_Ninja

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
195
Dave Chappelle is a rich straight cis man with a giant platform encouraging people to laugh at trans folks' very existence. He makes it ok for people to laugh at us, trans women used to be/are men hahahaha.

You know what's fucked up, you pretending that that has value.

Chappelle isn't criticizing the white face of trans culture when he goes for the lowest hanging fruit to shit on is with.

Honestly yes or no do you think Chappelle has the ability to do harm/oppression against the trans community
So by your answer, I will assume you are white.

And besides you dodging my questions about inclusiveness and racism of your group towards black trans, which relates with the mirror Chappelle has been doing, I will answer your question and yes, I think he still can do harm to trans community, not different that the harm and oppression you has white trans can do to black trans or you do to black men when you use classism combined with "I see no colour" and include black men inside the same bracket as white men, because the black man has money. Which by consequence, ignores the fact that Chappelle Is not imune to bigotry and racism because he has money, he still stopped by police with huge chance to be shot, his kids will still suffer bigotry from your white kids, and so on...

The lowest hanging fruit would be a trans black person that also suffers bigotry from white trans community... they do exists, you know?...

The point he makes about been a man before is that the person was born with the default privilege of white men. That's really evident when Chappelle says that it was easier for a white athlete to be accepted and praise by the media when he changed sex then for black man to change his name. This comes down to the privilege of been white, it comes with a bonus no matter the community a white person is part of.

And again, that's exactly what Chappelle illustrates about fragmentation of the left, which is unfortunate.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
16,409
Mushroom Kingdom
if some of you haven't seen the epilogue i really suggest it.
he touches on the trans jokes and why he continued to tell it.

There is bits of compassion and explanation that i think we're really missing in the special

i initially thought the whole topic was just unfunny and he really should STFU about it, but thinking on it all day after hearing the story he told in the epilogue frames it in a different light.

i'm going to watch it again tomorrow to explain it better
 

Garou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,644
Huh? Epilogue? Is that only available in some countries? Here the special is 65 minutes runtime and just ends with the credits.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,945
i initially thought the whole topic was just unfunny and he really should STFU about it, but thinking on it all day after hearing the story he told in the epilogue frames it in a different light.

i'm going to watch it again tomorrow to explain it better

Pushing taboos and generally joking about things that should not be joked about is a hallmark of comedy. Humor is, after all, a coping mechanism. I'm not telling people to not be offended (that was the point of a lot of the jokes in this particular special), just consider other viewpoints like Daphne's. It wasn't that long ago that comedians were prosecuted in the headlines for things we consider commonplace and hardly worth being upset about today. We didn't arrive to where we are now without comedy.

Huh? Epilogue? Is that only available in some countries? Here the special is 65 minutes runtime and just ends with the credits.

It auto-played after the special for me.
 

Faustek

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,876
Afro_Ninja the fuck you on about dude? That deflection to white people doesn't turn trash into treasure.
Who the fuck cares about what racist white transgender people says when a black man is punching them? Are you really that fucked up that this is your defense for Dave Chappelle? Dude, either I'm missing your point or you a shallow dumb ass.

Pro blackness that is homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic, and/or sexist isn't pro blackness. That's just a trash hotep that can go fuck himself.
 
Oct 26, 2017
16,409
Mushroom Kingdom
Pushing taboos and generally joking about things that should not be joked about is a hallmark of comedy. Humor is, after all, a coping mechanism. I'm not telling people to not be offended (that was the point of a lot of the jokes in this particular special), just consider other viewpoints like Daphne's. It wasn't that long ago that comedians were prosecuted in the headlines for things we consider commonplace and hardly worth being upset about today. We didn't arrive to where we are now without comedy.
It auto-played after the special for me.

I think i get that but I see what some are saying as it initially just coming off as meanspirited and borderline (?) transphobic

I can't blame them for wanting to just turn it off after hearing that. It's bad formatting/pacing not hearing the compassion and considerate side in an epilogue an hour after the joke was told. Those who miss the epilogue, like i almost did if it weren't for this thread, will miss the more thoughtful intention behind the joke too.
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,881
As a straight black cis male I think it's questionable if Dave exactly has any place to be calling out white trans people in a "AHA! LOOK! YOU CAN BE RACIST JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE" manner. It frankly kind of comes off as an excuse because it seems completely founded on the idea that trans people aren't aware of this themselves and that these things aren't talked about and addressed in trans circles and I frankly don't think Dave has any idea of what is or isn't talked about amongst trans people aside from what he sees on the front of Twitter.

Basically it all sounds like he's belittling people under the halfhearted excuse of "you do bad things too" which is not really insightful and in the worst case scenario acts as a catch all excuse regardless of what the actual content of the "jokes" are.
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,490
Some are not but I too presume the majority are.

The 'jokes' about trans people were unacceptable and really felt like Dave attacking them just for the sake of it (something I've never really felt he's done before), but I don't know if that's a fair assessment.

I honestly don't know what Dave's hopes were this special. I enjoyed parts, but he's gone from being insightful and provoking interesting discussions to just attacking everyone without any care or thought behind the majority of his jokes.

Sure, it's labelled as 'politically incorrect', but so were some of his other specials and they didn't feel as though he was straight out attacking entire groups of people. The Chinaman/Trans 'joke' almost felt like he was upset his wife didn't like it so he wanted to see what others thought. The last special was the perfect place to end it, I don't know why he bothered with this.
 

Fendajaz

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,123
Thoroughly enjoyed this special. Laughed out loud a lot, but can see how it's controversial.
 

jetsetrez

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,937
Dave has been my favorite comedian (along with Louis CK...) all my life. Really disappointed with this special. There were a few laughs but this just felt like a bunch of tired ass, obvious takes on cancel culture and the me too era. I'm so fucking sick of people thinking this shitty, lazy bullshit is somehow edgy or bold. It's hacky, intellectually empty "insights" that should be beneath Dave at this point.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
I don't know why he bothered with this.
The audience reaction, because his routine still works. Because people still want to watch. I don't think I heard one groan from the audience. Heard a couple gasps but that was more out of surprise that he "went there" on several occasions. But he does it because people show up for that. Despite the fact he immediately calls out the audience and those watching at home for being cancel culture types.
 

ZeroDS

"This guy are sick"
The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
3,438
For people wondering. The Q&A is region based. For example I can't watch it here in Japan.

Not sure why they've done this, especially if he explains shit there.
 
OP
OP
Glasfrut

Glasfrut

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,581
I haven't seen the epilogue, but I could have done without the first half of the special. The car bit was going somewhere but ruined by the "Chinaman" joke/false equivalence.

Hm. Not sure just why the MJ stuff had to be in there either. Thought he was gonna loop back in when he was mentioning asking his dad for $3.

Jokes seemed...underwritten? I don't know.
 

BlueTsunami

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,522
Mean spirited. Felt like he had a bone to pick with a class of people that are absolutely subjugated. He's really leaning into the 'Pain Olympics' in dismissing some heinous stuff. Jokes. And I'm usually open to humor like this but the obvious poking was pretty gross. Get off it, Dude.
 

Dweebo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
84
I was laughing from start to finish, thought this was the best Netflix special he's done yet.
 

Zulith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,780
West Coast, USA
I can't seem to find a way to play the Eplioge and I want to see that before I form a full opinion on it. First impression though: well, I went in with an open mind for sure, because I'm perfectly fine with stand up comedy no matter how offensive it wants to be. But to me, good comedy has to have some insight or be willing to express hard truths. If it can do that, it can be as offensive as it wants as far as I'm concerned. I really didn't feel like there was anything smart about what he had to say. A lot of ignorance, actually.
 

dmoe

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,290
such a good special. Can't believe someone's phone rang during it.
Might be his best Netflix special
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,327
I can't seem to find a way to play the Eplioge and I want to see that before I form a full opinion on it. First impression though: well, I went in with an open mind for sure, because I'm perfectly fine with stand up comedy no matter how offensive it wants to be. But to me, good comedy has to have some insight or be willing to express hard truths. If it can do that, it can be as offensive as it wants as far as I'm concerned. I really didn't feel like there was anything smart about what he had to say. A lot of ignorance, actually.

Well there is that story about how he had to be called in to talk about his Chapelle show material using the f word because he isn't gay and shouldn't be using it, but he could consistently get away with using the n word even though he isn't one either.
 

SweetNicole

The Old Guard
Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,543
So by your answer, I will assume you are white.

And besides you dodging my questions about inclusiveness and racism of your group towards black trans, which relates with the mirror Chappelle has been doing, I will answer your question and yes, I think he still can do harm to trans community, not different that the harm and oppression you has white trans can do to black trans or you do to black men when you use classism combined with "I see no colour" and include black men inside the same bracket as white men, because the black man has money. Which by consequence, ignores the fact that Chappelle Is not imune to bigotry and racism because he has money, he still stopped by police with huge chance to be shot, his kids will still suffer bigotry from your white kids, and so on...

The lowest hanging fruit would be a trans black person that also suffers bigotry from white trans community... they do exists, you know?...

The point he makes about been a man before is that the person was born with the default privilege of white men. That's really evident when Chappelle says that it was easier for a white athlete to be accepted and praise by the media when he changed sex then for black man to change his name. This comes down to the privilege of been white, it comes with a bonus no matter the community a white person is part of.

And again, that's exactly what Chappelle illustrates about fragmentation of the left, which is unfortunate.

Talk about showing your ass. Fucking yikes. I'd encourage you to do a bit of education on who you're speaking to and about the subject your speaking before you continue to put your proverbial foot in mouth again.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,347
Well there is that story about how he had to be called in to talk about his Chapelle show material using the f word because he isn't gay and shouldn't be using it, but he could consistently get away with using the n word even though he isn't one either.

This is such a trap because if anyone said shit about him using the n word he could turn around and judge them (and rightfully so) for telling him how to use/not use a word that's been used to oppress him.

This is a cop out spin so he can claim the high ground while still using homophobic slurs.
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,327
This is such a trap because if anyone said shit about him using the n word he could turn around and judge them (and rightfully so) for telling him how to use/not use a word that's been used to oppress him.

This is a cop out spin so he can claim the high ground while still using homophobic slurs.

I can't speak to his intention with whatever that joke would have been, but black pain and suffering has been told through the lens of comedy for decades, and everyone was laughing along and okay with it, whether they were black or not. So I hope going forward people become a little more self aware at what they laugh at. It can't just be your particular marginalized group that you draw the line at. Either it's all fair game, or none of it should be.
 

Deleted member 7777

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
681
Honestly, I'm usually a defender of not policing comedians and not dictating what can be joked about.

But a lot of this material felt mean spirited and lazy. Where were the insights? "LOL ANTHONY BOURDAIN HAD IT SO GOOD AND HE KILLED HIMSELF WHAT A WHINER". was the extent of that through-line.