if BEING AN ALLY means we aren't allowed to commend people on doing the right thing for some reason then i'll gladly give up my badge, no worries
Being an ally means not talking down to the people you are supposedly being an ally to.
if BEING AN ALLY means we aren't allowed to commend people on doing the right thing for some reason then i'll gladly give up my badge, no worries
Some of ya'll are legitimately ridiculous and toxic
Swery literally be out their making entire games with transpeople just to give transpeople a voice, putting #representation and #diversity into everyone of his games be it LBGT or POC and is out there promising to rewrite and patch his mistakes in his most recent game, which is something no dev has done ever in the history of videogames
And you be out there bitching that he's only doing the bare minimum and literally complain about people commending him for him going all these extra steps that basically no one else takes
If you want representation, you gotta live with the fact that even the most earnest of people will make mistakes, and should encourage people to do so, instead of attacking them for it, cos that's nothing more than a surefire to make people fear trying
Being an ally means not talking down to the people you are supposedly being an ally to.
So the base requirement(how can there even be such a thing? Who decides where that base is?) is dictated by whatever cultural context you find yourself in then? That's what is sounds like to me because I don't think the thing you want is something targeted at the values and understanding of the average human being living on earth. Or maybe you meant something else by global. I think you probably just meant local(as in local to you) but misspelled.
I don't think he should be protected from criticism. I think it's shitty to berate him when he is trying to do better.
Indirectly berating him by attacking the praise with the rationale that he should have known better. Which I don't think is fair. Considering his background he shouldn't necessarily have known better, and that's precisely why his apology and commitment to make better is praiseworthy.The base requirement is if you fuck up... you apologise? That's a pretty universal truth, I thought? We're not talking on whether he thought he had fucked up or not, he has acknowledged he did, so, the base requirement for him knowing he'd fucked up, is to apologise. Which he did, and that's good.
And no. Global as in, the games are going to be available globally, internationally, so understanding how something you put in the game reflects internationally, is important. But again, we're not discussing whether he fucked up or not, he acknowledged he did, and apologised, which again, is good.
Could you point out where anyone has berated him? I've not berated him, I've berated the adoration & "King" type shit. That isn't coming from him, it's coming from other posters. Even the tweets you replied to me after responding, didn't berate him, they pointed out that he's worked on trans characters before, so basically, he has to be more mindful of these issues, as he should be aware of trans issues if he is creating trans characters... That isn't berating/attacking him.
My last post on that matter, as i don't think continuing this conversation will lead anywhere:
I have no Intention of dismissing the criticism itself
Nor i have Intention of attacking transpeople
I only took umbrage with the fact that we are somehow not allowed to compliment someone for doing the right thing, someone who has a history of trying his best and has achieved good things in the past too, and i got emotionally involved in the process.
If i was dismissive or done something hurtful i aplogise.
There's a lot of things that happen when making a game and while it's not an valid excuse, I've seen many stories of how developers get blinders on when working on certain games. You focus so much on problem areas - technical, story, gameplay - that often you deprioritize something big and obvious because you're so concerned with making sure you get something else right. So much of game development is trying to get things to just "work" and come together - even harder when balancing a game that's story-driven and being translated into foreign languages. A lot of stuff is delegated to other writers, programmers, editors, voice directors, etc., and a director trusts it'll all be cohesive. A lot of those people often are working with incomplete scripts or vague direction. You don't always control what parts are written at which points in development, some things (like Japanese gender-neutral pronouns) can be translated the wrong way if you're unfamiliar with the correct approach, cultural ignorance is still a very valid thing for many adults (Bioware is one of the BETTER developers at inclusive LGBT+ representation and they too had to rewrite a trans character post-release due to deadnaming, to bring up a more high-profile example), etc.Nice to hear he's fixing it but I'm confused as to why he put it in the game in the first place.
Indirectly berating him by attacking the praise with the rationale that he should have known better. Which I don't think is fair. Considering his background he shouldn't necessarily have known better, and that's precisely why his apology and commitment to make better is praiseworthy.
How could he not have known better when he has done better in the past?Indirectly berating him by attacking the praise with the rationale that he should have known better. Which I don't think is fair. Considering his background he shouldn't necessarily have known better, and that's precisely why his apology and commitment to make better is praiseworthy.
What I think sets this apart from other insincere apologies is "I will go back and actually change it, with input from a diverse team". It's not just "I'm sorry" but "I'm sorry and I will make it right".
Edit: That said, not having played his prior games, I didn't know he's been putting transgender people in his games with some frequency. If he keeps making mistakes like this, he should attempt to up his game and not make them in the first time.
There's a lot of things that happen when making a game and while it's not an valid excuse, I've seen many stories of how developers get blinders on when working on certain games. You focus so much on problem areas - technical, story, gameplay - that often you deprioritize something big and obvious because you're so concerned with making sure you get something else right. So much of game development is trying to get things to just "work" and come together - even harder when balancing a game that's story-driven and being translated into foreign languages. A lot of stuff is delegated to other writers, programmers, editors, voice directors, etc., and a director trusts it'll all be cohesive. A lot of those people often are working with incomplete scripts or vague direction. You don't always control what parts are written at which points in development, some things (like Japanese gender-neutral pronouns) can be translated the wrong way if you're unfamiliar with the correct approach, cultural ignorance is still a very valid thing for many adults (Bioware is one of the BETTER developers at inclusive LGBT+ representation and they too had to rewrite a trans character post-release due to deadnaming, to bring up a more high-profile example), etc.
Again, that's not an excuse, and SWERY's apology and promise to correct it is the right one rather than making excuses. I sincerely doubt the intentions were bad, but any creator worth his salt knows that intentions are meaningless if execution botches it, and he's adamant the execution was not what he intended.
i know you're banned but lets be real, this isnt about "commending people on doing the right thing" this is about other posters saying "Calling him a king for the bare minimum is over the top" and you deciding theyre unreasonable and toxic because they didnt sufficiently appreciate your "What a King, we continue to stan" postif BEING AN ALLY means we aren't allowed to commend people on doing the right thing for some reason then i won't call myself one if it makes you happier
Quite frankly, I didn't like Deadly Premonition and it leverages some really grotesque character tropes in addition to very distasteful plot elements. I find its enduring popularity very unusual. There is content in this game I find truly disgusting. Had I known the content hidden behind its endgame twist I would not have purchased it or played it.
When the sequel was announced I was curious to see if it would avoid all the same failures of the first game. Writers grow and perspectives change. When I heard murmurs that the content of this game was just as tone deaf, I was not surprised but still disappointed.
But I also believe that it is never too late to do the right thing. It's never too late to accept responsibility. It's never too late to try to fix what you've done wrong and make amends to people you've insulted.
It seems clear to me that in this game he wants to portray a marginalized character with dignity and respect and completely and totally failed to do that, so he's going to try to fix it. I really appreciate that and it shows me maybe he has grown after all. His fix remains to be seen, but we'll see soon enough.
Cool to hear. I wonder how long reworking will take?
As a side note, is it true that deadnaming isn't as looked down upon in Japanese trans communities or was I peddled some transphobic bull when I saw that? Could explain where some of the issues came from before he was corrected.
No, sorry that it came off that I meant you, but I was referring to something I saw on another forum that was pretty specific about what they meant.Selfishly... I wish people would spoil tag some stuff in this thread that has nothing to do with the the trans character or transphobia. Want to be 100% clear that it would be gross to ask spoiler tags to stand in the way of discussing these scenes, but I've seen unrelated stuff that seems pretty big come up out of nowhere now and I'd think that would be reasonable to have tagged? Things being openly talked about to discuss/criticize things like this makes sense as that's far more important than concerns over spoilers, and the reason I'm in these threads is partially that I'd rather be aware of any upcoming transphobia going into it something than not, but suddenly seeing big plot details that don't have anything to do with it is a little frustrating.
Maybe I'm being weirdly paranoid, but I'm worried this may refer to something I posted about this game and I want to be clear that if it was that post you saw, that 100% wasn't what I said.
It's my understanding that Japanese trans communities may take less issue with some phrasing/framing around, for example, "I was born a boy and now I'm a woman" vs "I was always a woman". But that's very different than dead naming being ok and I would assume someone else talking about a trans person should match that person's own framing. And since the context of at least one scene is talking directly to the trans character's face, none of that applies to to that scene to begin with.
Exactly, dude made the Missing, I doubt he meant harm and will do best to change whatever does wrong in story and learn from it.I haven't gotten to the point referenced so far, but York chides someone for implying a trans woman is somehow "different". Considering that and The Missing Swery clearly means well, so hopefully this can be resolved in an appropriate way. Good on him for owning it and looking to make changes and listen to the community to undo the harm.
Generally people should be praised when they do the right thing.
But here the right thing is him basically trying to retract the wrong thing he did.
So he's arguably receiving praise for doing the neutral thing, at best. So the praise is a bit unbalanced.
I think we're just conditioned to expect people to be pieces of shit or not do the right thing. At least I am. I'm positively surprised when the opposite happens.
So the good thing gets additional momentum in its reception. It's just good to see good things.