Being an ally means not talking down to the people you are supposedly being an ally to.
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Deadly Premonition 2 director Swery65 addresses and apologizes for trans misrepresentation on the game
- Thread starter Deleted member 10629
- Start date
Being an ally means not talking down to the people you are supposedly being an ally to.
I don't realy see people being toxic here. Some are just not comfortable to put someone on a pedestal for apologizing for something. It is great that he did and something a lot of people don't do but still an apology for something bad. But in general everyone I saw was ok with the apology and some just think it is not more than that.
Your post is pretty much more toxic than anything else anyone wrote in this Thread. I am always very confused when People are very agressive when they tell minorities they need to be nicer when they want to change things,
My last post on that matter, as i don't think continuing this conversation will lead anywhere:
I have no Intention of dismissing the criticism itself
Nor i have Intention of attacking transpeople
I only took umbrage with the fact that we are somehow not allowed to compliment someone for doing the right thing, someone who has a history of trying his best and has achieved good things in the past too, and i got emotionally involved in the process.
If i was dismissive or done something hurtful i aplogise.
The base requirement is if you fuck up... you apologise? That's a pretty universal truth, I thought? We're not talking on whether he thought he had fucked up or not, he has acknowledged he did, so, the base requirement for him knowing he'd fucked up, is to apologise. Which he did, and that's good.
And no. Global as in, the games are going to be available globally, internationally, so understanding how something you put in the game reflects internationally, is important. But again, we're not discussing whether he fucked up or not, he acknowledged he did, and apologised, which again, is good.
Could you point out where anyone has berated him? I've not berated him, I've berated the adoration & "King" type shit. That isn't coming from him, it's coming from other posters. Even the tweets you replied to me after responding, didn't berate him, they pointed out that he's worked on trans characters before, so basically, he has to be more mindful of these issues, as he should be aware of trans issues if he is creating trans characters... That isn't berating/attacking him.
On one hand I accept and believe his apology. I feel he really cares.
On the other hand I agree with LKD, swery has done trans characters, had feedback, and worked with trans people, he needs to do better.
On the other hand I agree with LKD, swery has done trans characters, had feedback, and worked with trans people, he needs to do better.
Indirectly berating him by attacking the praise with the rationale that he should have known better. Which I don't think is fair. Considering his background he shouldn't necessarily have known better, and that's precisely why his apology and commitment to make better is praiseworthy.
The praise that some are showing almost seems sarcastic in how over-the-top it is. The bare minimum we ask is for people to just not be transphobic. There are resources out there to aid people in understanding what is and isn't, and I don't think absolute praise is the best response to someone circling back to that minimum.
And again, this is coming from someone who is relatively happy with the response he gave.
There's a lot of things that happen when making a game and while it's not an valid excuse, I've seen many stories of how developers get blinders on when working on certain games. You focus so much on problem areas - technical, story, gameplay - that often you deprioritize something big and obvious because you're so concerned with making sure you get something else right. So much of game development is trying to get things to just "work" and come together - even harder when balancing a game that's story-driven and being translated into foreign languages. A lot of stuff is delegated to other writers, programmers, editors, voice directors, etc., and a director trusts it'll all be cohesive. A lot of those people often are working with incomplete scripts or vague direction. You don't always control what parts are written at which points in development, some things (like Japanese gender-neutral pronouns) can be translated the wrong way if you're unfamiliar with the correct approach, cultural ignorance is still a very valid thing for many adults (Bioware is one of the BETTER developers at inclusive LGBT+ representation and they too had to rewrite a trans character post-release due to deadnaming, to bring up a more high-profile example), etc.
Again, that's not an excuse, and SWERY's apology and promise to correct it is the right one rather than making excuses. I sincerely doubt the intentions were bad, but any creator worth his salt knows that intentions are meaningless if execution botches it, and he's adamant the execution was not what he intended.
Generally people should be praised when they do the right thing.
But here the right thing is him basically trying to retract the wrong thing he did.
So he's arguably receiving praise for doing the neutral thing, at best. So the praise is a bit unbalanced.
I think we're just conditioned to expect people to be pieces of shit or not do the right thing. At least I am. I'm positively surprised when the opposite happens.
So the good thing gets additional momentum in its reception. It's just good to see good things.
But here the right thing is him basically trying to retract the wrong thing he did.
So he's arguably receiving praise for doing the neutral thing, at best. So the praise is a bit unbalanced.
I think we're just conditioned to expect people to be pieces of shit or not do the right thing. At least I am. I'm positively surprised when the opposite happens.
So the good thing gets additional momentum in its reception. It's just good to see good things.
I'm really struggling with what you want? Do you want him to called King and Stan for him?
I think it's good he apologised, and committed to making it right. I don't believe he's a king for that. I can find issue with others being extremely over the top with praise for it, and that isn't berating Swery by doing so, indirectly or otherwise...
We're going in circles. He acknowledged he fucked up. He's fixing it. Good. Still, not a king.
How could he not have known better when he has done better in the past?
Quite frankly, I didn't like Deadly Premonition and it leverages some really grotesque character tropes in addition to very distasteful plot elements. I find its enduring popularity very unusual. There is content in this game I find truly disgusting. Had I known the content hidden behind its endgame twist I would not have purchased it or played it.
When the sequel was announced I was curious to see if it would avoid all the same failures of the first game. Writers grow and perspectives change. When I heard murmurs that the content of this game was just as tone deaf, I was not surprised but still disappointed.
But I also believe that it is never too late to do the right thing. It's never too late to accept responsibility. It's never too late to try to fix what you've done wrong and make amends to people you've insulted.
It seems clear to me that in this game he wants to portray a marginalized character with dignity and respect and completely and totally failed to do that, so he's going to try to fix it. I really appreciate that and it shows me maybe he has grown after all. His fix remains to be seen, but we'll see soon enough.
Good on swery for apologising and seeking to correct this, but as an author I have to ask; what is swery's intent with his frequent inclusion of LGBTQ+ characters in his works? Does he feel strongly about representation? Unfortunately I get the feeling that he seems to think non-hetero and non-cis people make good villains, that's what all the evidence so far seems to suggest.
Maybe the best step forward for him would be to stop writing LGBTQ+ people as villains for a while and work on his understanding whilst writing them in smaller roles until he figures this shit out.
There's absolutely no reason why an LGBTQ+ person can't be an antagonist, but using their transness or their sexuality as part of the threat they pose to the protagonist is gross and seems to be a particularly enduring trope in Japanese game writing that needs to go.
Maybe the best step forward for him would be to stop writing LGBTQ+ people as villains for a while and work on his understanding whilst writing them in smaller roles until he figures this shit out.
There's absolutely no reason why an LGBTQ+ person can't be an antagonist, but using their transness or their sexuality as part of the threat they pose to the protagonist is gross and seems to be a particularly enduring trope in Japanese game writing that needs to go.
Swery needs to bring on some lgbtq people to help him better write these characters and understand their struggles 100%. I'm glad he's apologized, admitted fault, and is taking the steps to fix things. I'm glad we have Swerwy pushing for lgbtq representation in his games and hopefully he can continue to improve as a writer and hopefully help more lgbtq people get into the industry by bringing them on as consultants or cowriters in the future.
After playing The Missing I do think he means well, it's just a shame things like this seem to keep popping up not just in japanese games but other media.
As you say it must be a headache juggling everything and dealing with things in a different language though.
Not an excuse but hopefully he'll learn from this and other developers do so too. Sensitive issues deserve a bit more time to get right.
i know you're banned but lets be real, this isnt about "commending people on doing the right thing" this is about other posters saying "Calling him a king for the bare minimum is over the top" and you deciding theyre unreasonable and toxic because they didnt sufficiently appreciate your "What a King, we continue to stan" post
And frankly it is the bare minimum (as much as i appreciate it), which makes it sad that apologies like this are so rare.
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people think they're "good allies" if they haven't muttered a slur in several years and have like one black friend or something. What occured here is usually what ends up happening when someone proudly declares themselves an "ally". Someone will do the song and dance until their views clash with those they've aligned with, then the fuckshit stuff comes out. Being an actual ally is a lifelong job and you always have to be improving yourself.
people think they're "good allies" if they haven't muttered a slur in several years and have like one black friend or something. What occured here is usually what ends up happening when someone proudly declares themselves an "ally". Someone will do the song and dance until their views clash with those they've aligned with, then the fuckshit stuff comes out. Being an actual ally is a lifelong job and you always have to be improving yourself.
Cool to hear. I wonder how long reworking will take?
As a side note, is it true that deadnaming isn't as looked down upon in Japanese trans communities or was I peddled some transphobic bull when I saw that? Could explain where some of the issues came from before he was corrected.
As a side note, is it true that deadnaming isn't as looked down upon in Japanese trans communities or was I peddled some transphobic bull when I saw that? Could explain where some of the issues came from before he was corrected.
Selfishly... I wish people would spoil tag some stuff in this thread that has nothing to do with the the trans character or transphobia. Want to be 100% clear that it would be gross to ask spoiler tags to stand in the way of discussing these scenes, but I've seen unrelated stuff that seems pretty big come up out of nowhere now and I'd think that would be reasonable to have tagged? Things being openly talked about to discuss/criticize things like this makes sense as that's far more important than concerns over spoilers, and the reason I'm in these threads is partially that I'd rather be aware of any upcoming transphobia going into it something than not, but suddenly seeing big plot details that don't have anything to do with it is a little frustrating.
Maybe I'm being weirdly paranoid, but I'm worried this may refer to something I posted about this game and I want to be clear that if it was that post you saw, that 100% wasn't what I said.
It's my understanding that Japanese trans communities may take less issue with some phrasing/framing around, for example, "I was born a boy and now I'm a woman" vs "I was always a woman". But that's very different than dead naming being ok and I would assume someone else talking about a trans person should match that person's own framing. And since the context of at least one scene is talking directly to the trans character's face, none of that applies to to that scene to begin with.
Maybe I'm being weirdly paranoid, but I'm worried this may refer to something I posted about this game and I want to be clear that if it was that post you saw, that 100% wasn't what I said.
It's my understanding that Japanese trans communities may take less issue with some phrasing/framing around, for example, "I was born a boy and now I'm a woman" vs "I was always a woman". But that's very different than dead naming being ok and I would assume someone else talking about a trans person should match that person's own framing. And since the context of at least one scene is talking directly to the trans character's face, none of that applies to to that scene to begin with.
No, sorry that it came off that I meant you, but I was referring to something I saw on another forum that was pretty specific about what they meant.
Exactly, dude made the Missing, I doubt he meant harm and will do best to change whatever does wrong in story and learn from it.
The problem with this line of thinking is that you can very well give him both praise for doing something highly atypical in the industry, and still give him constructive advice because this kind of thing shouldn't be happening to the person who wrote The Missing.
This is far beyond "neutral" but it's not a completely earth-shattering move, if that makes sense. But he absolutely should be receiving praise for this and people saying "well this isn't enough" for someone trying to rectify a gigantic mistake might as well be getting out some arbitrary score card like they're grading a student.
We need to highlight what people are doing right as well, so that others can hopefully do some introspective to be motivated to change just like Swery did. Anything other than that just comes across as being eager to nail them for what they did do, and not be interested in how or whether the person actually learns or changes for the better. Personally for me, I'm more of the kind of "this is a start, let's see what they do next"