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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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Yup. Perhaps Sanders should have shut up so the moderates didn't rally around Biden. At the same time it probably wouldn't have mattered because there was no goddamn way they were going to let a leftist get power of the party and take their meal tickets away.
Because she supports the same things as Bernie? I think even without an immediate endorsement she drops.
I predict that when/if she endorses, it will be for Biden.
Hot takes, the thread.
Cooler heads in days ahead, I hope.
I'm *way* left of the center of the DNC and am not a fan of Biden.
Trump must be stopped and the voters are voting.
Cooler heads in days ahead, I hope.
I'm *way* left of the center of the DNC and am not a fan of Biden.
Trump must be stopped and the voters are voting.
The other things folks should reckon with is that Warren was the compromise/bridge candidate for a lot of her supporters so the idea outright that she necessarily was holding Bernie back... eh.... a lot of her votes probably would have gone to Biden as well. It's kind of a wash.
It really is unfortunate to see her flounder so badly *sigh*
It really is unfortunate to see her flounder so badly *sigh*
He put his stakes on SC and it paid off and from there all the pieces fell into place. If he wasn't Obama's VP it would have not worked, he's basically leeching off Obama's popularity.
As in, she believes that markets can work sometimes? What a fucking shocking idea
Preach
This is something that makes me really sad,We all know that there are rotten elements to the Democratic Party that are keeping it from moving forward… And yet we can't say anything out loud about those elements because they are so powerful we need them on our side to be electable. It's such a fucking mess. This stupid country fucked around and elected Donald Trump so now we have to be happy for Joe Biden to save us
Honestly while Bernie could have campaigned better. Part of his loss definitely is due to "electability" or the fact if we choose wrong, we will be going 4 long hellish years under Trump. Viability for "socialist" ideas is rising. Better campaigning, a candidate that rises from the Democratic Party itself, not having to deal with Trump as the alternative, I could definitely see a Progressive be president.
The party is largely representative of the people's attitudes. There's really no defense here. Dems voters don't like it when you attack the party. If Bernie wanted to build a broad coalition, he shouldn't have attacked 'the establishment' aka 80% of the party so much.
When you realize the last two DNC chairpersons resigned in disgrace for tipping the scales for Hillary, then understand that Obama pushed Perez to take the chair after the first muslim person in congress was well endorsed and going to take it you understand that the DNC cares about one thing: keeping the dynasty going.
I'm fully expecting Perez to resign after the general election after what he pulled in Iowa and changing the debate rules last minute to allow Bloomberg in.
Biden acts like he needs to be in a retirement home. He literally has nothing other than being Obama's VP which he got just because the first black president needed a white establishment conservative as a running mate. The man lost every primary for the last 30 years yet all of a sudden South Carolina thought he was magically electable? He's going to get murdered and embarrassed by Trump and old Dems will bitch that it's the "Bernie Bros'" fault or Russia or corona virus or whatever reason isn't the fact they picked another weakass uninspiring nothing's going to change party loyalist that's somehow failed his way up.
I'm absolutely furious that he won states he didn't bother to campaign in just because of his name. It makes Hillary's campaign look like Reagan's.
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Yes, the wealthy media who is owned by the wealthier billionaires who don't want to see a president challenge their hegemony. That isn't that hard to grasp. What was this hot mic thing recently at CNN or MSNBC? They said something like, "Oh, yeah, I can see why young people are so stirred up.... if I only made $80,000 a year, I'd have a hard time paying for insurance too!"
They're so out of touch that they don't understand the implications of these policies and view it as people just wanting free shit. They don't get that the national average income is only $60,000 a year, which still isn't enough to fend off drastic medical debt. I would KILL to make $80,000 a year and have just AFFORDABLE insurance for myself and my family, but we don't even get that. Two minor injuries for my wife and my child within the last several months runs us the risk of wiping out the bulk of our modest but not totally insubstantial savings. And we fucking WORK our assess off. That's what this is about. Nobody should run the risk of losing everything because of shit beyond their control. It's why we have fire departments. It's why we should have universal healthcare as well.
But these media types make bank, have no clue how people actually live, and all they know is they don't want their fucking taxes to go up, so YES they dislike Bernie's policies. But fuck 'em. Their job isn't to offer commentary, it's to offer facts (in an ideal world anyway), yet we have a coordinated campaign in each of these places to downplay what he's fighting for, all of which is totally reasonable.
His policies putting him in the crosshairs of the media is the entire point. These people treat Bernie's policies and Trump's policies as equivalent even though one exists on the spectrum of evil fascism and the other as an attempt to treat the people who work their asses off to make this country work like fucking human beings instead of cattle.
Elizabeth Warren Says She's 'a Capitalist To My Bones'
A new New Deal? Warren is simultaneously a pragmatist and a disruptor. Is there nothing to fear but fear itself?
www.newsweek.com
capitalist to her bones
;)
They are for the people. The people who have voted for them in the past and who voted for Biden right now. We can't claim we're "for the people" and then ignore the fact that we're not being chosen by them right now.
If it needs attacked, attack it. Again, the disgust I'm growing for much of the DNC and Biden apologetics in here is because it all comes at the cost of not being able to criticize deeply entrenched and damaging party systems that hurt people and, more importantly, ultimately get Republicans elected due to their utter incompetence.
Please, 2016 had Trump elected and he and his band of cultists have complete control of the Republican Party so don't tell me you can't do the same to the Democratic Party. Only difference is you don't got the damn votes.
It's really frustrating how much people keep trying to tip-toe around this part.
The DNC hasn't done shit against Bernie. He's not succeeding because his message isn't resonating with enough voters. He has high favorabilitues, the most money raised and spent (outside of lolberg), and the second highest name recognition.
At this point, you might need to start looking at why his message isn't appealing to the people.
At this point, you might need to start looking at why his message isn't appealing to the people.
Keep telling yourself that and not addressing the glaring flaws in your - assuming you're from the US - electoral system. The political class needs your blind consent if it is to be never challenged.
I would disagree with this statement. They are for the people insomuch as they turn out to vote, but they are not actually for anybody. This is all a resume measuring contest wherein people wait their turn to become anointed and slip into positions of power for... reasons. I don't even fucking know why. But the steady filtering upward of certain people is apparent, and I defy you to find any collection of people nearly as passionate about Biden or his policies as... hell, not even Sanders, but even Warren. Nobody is busting their ass to get him elected. They just assume he'll be the right guy because... he's the right guy, because.... he's the right guy, because.... he's the righ-- Like, it's so fucking circular and unforgivably dismissive of people who actually give a shit about any of this stuff.
I fully understand the people made this decisions. The ones that weren't dissuaded by our awful election process anyways. But that doesn't make some of us feel better because my thoughts on Biden are exactly like this poster's:
I am now even more terrified of the GE.
You're being incredibly dismissive of the people who gave enough of a shit to actually go out and vote.
Do you want to win or do you want to feel right? Attacking the party will not help you win. The DNC helped flip 40+ seats in congress in 2018, and people know and value that. You can advocate for change without saying you want to burn the whole thing down.
I also don't see how any of the DNC's systems hurt Bernie this time.
They are so much for the people that 80% of them consider giving healtcare to poor people a cardinal sin.
What were the specific glaring flaws in the electoral system that led to these results?
Because I agree there are some glaring flaws, but they're not the reason Bernie lost Texas and Massachusetts.
You can't attack the dem party, meanwhile Trump, an outsider, made fun of the whole republican political machine, it's members and put it into submission with the whole approval of republican voters who backed him massively in the primaries.
The Democrats and Republicans have radically different delegate allocation procedures. The GOP is WTA, the Dems are a proportional system. Both feed into a parliamentary structure.
What Trump did isn't doable with the Dems.
100% Yup .i'm going to have to ignore this thread there's no way I can take all of that kind of rhetoric until November
Also for God's sake I know most of it is mourning but your not out and Progressivism is gaining in the country. polling continues to improve.
Bernie vs Biden, neither is giving healthcare to poor people if elected and it's not cause they don't want to, it's cause we have a Republican Senate that will throw that shit out. We gotta shift the Senate. You may disagree, but maybe we can ride the wave of Trump's disgusting existence to ride a Blue Senate in but most indications see Sanders causing damage to down-ballot races.
Bernie vs Biden, neither is giving healthcare to poor people if elected and it's not cause they don't want to, it's cause we have a Republican Senate that will throw that shit out. We gotta shift the Senate. You may disagree, but maybe we can ride the wave of Trump's disgusting existence to ride a Blue Senate in but most indications see Sanders causing damage to down-ballot races.
Not really. My point is that people will often not be active participants in democracy until election season, and they go out and vote based on blitzes of media info that hits them hard right before it's time to vote. When it comes time to actually enact policy, Democrats either don't bother to do what needs done OR they put up such a piss poor fight that they let Republicans decimate any reasonably progressive plans they put forth. Obama's presidency was a series of failures because of this. But instead of leaning into a fight, instead of backing people like Sanders or AOC, the DNC consistently dismisses and vilifies those people. They seem bitter when people try to be engaged outside of election season, and the general messaging from people like Pelosi is extremely dismissive of legitimate concerns that leave our country in our planet in crisis if we do not address them yesterday.
It's not that the Democrats are as bad as the Republicans. But we don't have to pretend that they're saints just because they don't openly support white supremacy, xenophobia, and hatred of the LGBTQ+ community. The game they play is to make you think they care about socially progressive issues while still working more for corporate donors than the people who come out and vote for them.
It's possible Bernie might end up doing worse than he did in 2016.
Yep. We all acknowledge that voting is time consuming and hard, but also try to paint folks as mindless if they vote in different direction. (Early voting has made things easier, but that's for a different spread of candidates.)
Like I said, he lost ground in certain places compared to 2016.
Wait it's almost like the Democratic Party isn't the Republican party
Oh you just wait. People will be treating Biden like he's the return of Christ come November.
Exactly. This is just where our country is at, I wish I could say I was surprised. People will always disappoint. Humanity is fucked.
I want both. I want to stop winning temporary victories based on half-truths and empty promises, and I want our political system to acknowledge the needs of the people it fucking serves and meet those needs without having to constantly acquiesce to the needs of insurance and oil and pharmaceutical companies and food manufacturers and on and on and on.
It's okay to want to win a righteous victory. Fucking pretending that we won just because we are once again chose the least bad of two bad options isn't winning.
And if Biden fails in November, be ready for the "Bernie Bros" to take the blame again for another 4 years.
The "its just because its a multiway field" explanation for his polling drop from 2016 to 2020 sounded ok on the surface but did not hold up once you dived into the data, because the losses weren't proportional. He lost far more white and hispanic voters than he did black ones, proportionally, while his supporters' political leanings shifted leftward at the same time. Which strongly suggested that he was specifically losing anti-Hillary voters, which was specifically a problem because if those voters are more conservative, a candidate like Biden is actually a better fit for them, meaning he'd need to either win them back over or win over ex Hillary voters. And as it stands, neither of those things seems to have happened.
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