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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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The meagre levels of enthusiasm is very bad because when the general starts, it's not gonna be smooth sailing kid gloves criticism of Biden like it is now, Trump will be pressing Biden hard on his many weak spots and skeletons in his closet. Enthusiasm is not gonna spike, it could be a tough crawl to even drag it higher.
He does, but its obvious Biden doesn't want to come off as overly critical during a crisis.
Also, weird example. The guy ate fish cleaner. There are better illustrations of how Trump's handling of the crisis is killing people.
Please don't treat me like I'm a fucking idiot, thanks.
It was a recent example specifically related to COVID and obviously yes people have died prior to this due to Trump's ignorance, are you kidding me? I even said that in this very thread.
If Biden doesn't want to come off as overly critical he is making a mistake.
"Saying Trump has blood on his hands is a hottake on Twitter kind of thing" is wrong. It is reality that Trump has blood on his hands. Biden is a coward for dodging that fact, he isn't smart for it.
Now please stop responding to me.
Maybe, maybe not. It did seem weird when he was walking back such meager comments like Trump not acting presidential or being like a yo-yo during the MSNBC interview.
Or maybe there's just little to gain by being overly combative right now. I don't know.
I feel there is a huge possibility his campaign staff themselves is wanting to hold things back a bit and have specifically instructed Biden to do so. I don't know either, but I feel like he should be full-force going after Trump's missteps as they happen, not later on as a collective. Hell, he can do both, but it doesn't excuse the avoidance now, in my opinion.
Except the enthusiasm poll isn't borne out in turnout and exit polling which tends to show the opposite. I'd take polls right now with a viral grain of salt.
I think maybe there's merit in holding back until some of the coronavirus stuff gets out of the news. Right now attacks aren't going to get a lot of play and won't stay in the public consciousness very long. I'm expecting some doozy ads when the GE gets ramped.
The thing about older folks is they don't have to be "very enthusiastic" to go vote. They just do. Only young people need to "fall in love" with a candidate to, perhaps, do their most basic of civic duties.
Actually it is when analyzing incumbents. Trump has numbers issues he shouldn't have at this point in time relative to other metrics that analyzed incumbents before the elections.
Why are Republicans who are by and large older enthusiastic about voting for Donald Trump?
It's not just about young people falling in love.
It's about Joe Biden offering absolutely nothing to get excited about. He's old, he's most likely a rapist, and he has clip after clip of him meandering about, flubbing, and telling people not to vote for him.
I'm sure a lot of older people are cool about that all. Given how things have gone in this country, he's a perfect candidate for generations of Americans, but I think he will have a hard time getting a lot of other people to get out of bed or get out of their job to vote for him as Trump is painting Joe Biden's crimes as a cancellation of his own.
And yet Biden had higher turnout and exit polls showed people excited to vote for him. Sanders is point proven that enthusiasm for a candidate doesn't necessarily translate to votes.
How was that working before all his moderate/conservative competitors all lined up to endorse him? He won that lane handily once everyone else bowed out. But how enthusiastic were people to vote for him when he was in 4th and 5th place in Iowa and NH.
Joe won't be competing against a Commie in the Fall. Joe will be banking on older suburban voters voting for him over a conservative.
I think you think people care more about this than actually do care about it. In the end, a lot of this stuff doesn't matter. Hillary was down right hated by a lot of moderates... Biden isn't. A lot of voters don't pay attention to the twitter takes, and Biden has zero to gain by making comment about Trump having blood on his hands.
The country is dealing with a pandemic.. now isn't the time to make claims about the president being responsible for killing people.
You may be right. It will be portrayed as goofy for now, but once it's Trump vs Biden, the media has a really good way of pointing out hypocrisy when it wants to.
Really? The refrain I hear time and again is that Biden's flaws are immaterial in the face of defeating Trump and holding him accountable. Maybe I'm being too optimistic in believing people care about the second point anyway, but when people are saying that a rotten head of lettuce would make a better president I would hope that the opposition would actually make arguments to justify that opinion!
The USA is in the middle of a pandemic. That's why none of these numbers should be considered stable.
His biggest ideological competitor was still in the race, and are we just going to ignore what led to everyone dropping out and endorsing him, which was him destroying everyone in South Carolina. I think there are loads of reasons why Joe might be electorally weak, but these aren't them.
Are you taking into consideration what's happening with certain states getting less medical supplies than Florida, Arizona, etc?
Also are folks forgetting about what happened with Puerto Rico under Trump's Presidency? Post hurricane?
Young People Aren’t Apathetic. They’re Facing Major Voting Obstacles
“It’s hypocritical accusing us of not being engaged politically when there are a lot of barriers to us voting," one college student said.
www.vice.com
It's systemic - an intended bug in the system - and a hell of a lot more complex than young people just being lazy/apathetic.
Same with the poor and minority voting which also lags a lot, but thankfully at least Era is more watchful of the lazy rhetoric and browbeating against these groups than it is when it comes to the youth vote, even though the youth vote includes way more poor and minorities in its group compared to the wealthy, more white dominant older generations. In other words, mind your crosstabs.
Why Are the Poor and Minorities Less Likely to Vote?
Even when America's underclass isn't formally stripped of its ballot, a slew of barriers come between them and full representation and participation.
www.theatlantic.com
But no, the 100K white vote just cares more about their country than the lazy young, the poor, and minorities in this country who just keep letting perfect get in the way of "good".
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I think less concern trolling in general would be heaps helpful, but fat chance.
Reality is calling bullshit on Biden. His platform doesn't provide the capacity to deal with wicked problems like we are seeing unfold. We need to go beyond the myopia of near sighted concepts of political pragmatism.
That is what primaries are for. To pick the sort of vision of who the left leaning voters of the country want to have. And we saw the choice that the left half of this country made.
Unfortunately, the world drastically changed a lot the last 4 weeks, so we will have to live with the choice. Hopefully Biden has what it takes.
To be fair, Biden's popularity amongst Democrats hasn't changed over the past month though. You don't see any sort of sudden shift in support away from Biden to Bernie. Biden still holds a very large lead in Dem primary polling.
I know, that's why I said I hope Biden has what it takes (though I meant for November, not to finish off the primary since it is done).
Yup, old people vote on obligation/duty, not excitement.
People keep asking "when will the 18-24 set turn out to vote" and ignore these barriers to entry. When the next presidential election comes around the 18-24 group becomes the 22-28 group and then the 26-32 age group the one after that. Naivete and disengagement or outright alienation by elected officials only goes so far to explain that if they keep aging into more stable voting groups.
Of course if future elections show low turnout in all groups under the age of 30 that's also something to be concerned about beyond a matter of moralistic tut-tutting but that's slightly beside the point here I think. If we had some sort of compulsory voting registration and maybe some sort of compulsory voting (though this would be hard to enforce for primaries as they're private affairs the respective party is responsible for) then I don't think we'd be in the circumstance where we have to even consider holding our noses and voting for Biden.
"I think it would be psychologically healthier for moderate media people who prefer Trump's re-election to the prospect of a Sanders presidency to actually say so, rather than doing months of weird concern-trolling about electability. "
See I can project thoughts onto other people too
Since you're posting this out of context with no commentary, its safe to assume you co-sign Matt's tweet and wouldn't mind naming like... any left-wing media people who you think prefer a Trump victory? Shouldn't be too hard to find at least one person who has said or even gestured strongly towards preferring a Trump win in November, otherwise this is speculation without any evidence, or conspiracy theorizing, which I thought this thread wasn't fond of.
I believe the networks will do phone interviews when warranted. They did it for a few prior contests and the results proved accurate.
Those concerns are called principles. Like not electing a possible sexual offender. I don't know seems like important to have principles considering they want us to vote against Trump, or why vote at all if principles don't matter.
Young People Aren’t Apathetic. They’re Facing Major Voting Obstacles
“It’s hypocritical accusing us of not being engaged politically when there are a lot of barriers to us voting," one college student said.
It's systemic - an intended bug in the system - and a hell of a lot more complex than young people just being lazy/apathetic.
Same with the poor and minority voting which also lags a lot, but thankfully at least Era is more watchful of the lazy rhetoric and browbeating against these groups than it is when it comes to the youth vote, even though the youth vote includes way more poor and minorities in its group compared to the wealthy, more white dominant older generations. In other words, mind your crosstabs.
Why Are the Poor and Minorities Less Likely to Vote?
Even when America's underclass isn't formally stripped of its ballot, a slew of barriers come between them and full representation and participation.
But no, the 100K white vote just cares more about their country than the lazy young, the poor, and minorities in this country who just keep letting perfect get in the way of "good".
Are you saying that lower youth turnout relative to older groups is primarily due to discrimination?
I don't quite buy it honestly but would love to see turnout numbers by age and controlling for race, income and education.
What does that have to do with what Yglesias is talking about? Which is hand-wringing over enthusiasm polls, not alleged sexual assaults
Well I wouldn't call it the left of the country, by any meaningful ideological measure. The US citizens are bombarded by high levels of propoganda to prevent any meaningful left wing politics gaining traction. Except where events over take tired political calculus, as is happening at the moment. These kinds of events should shatter most people's confidence in the narratives of control and stability that most mainstream politicians propogate. This kind of thing happens time and time again. People need to realise that societal change is far more non linear and dynamic than they have been taught to believe, and change happens in a pretty oppositional way, but fundamentally shocks like this are what play a role in dislodging entrenched power. By most measures the corona virus has the power to shift societal norms.
Matt was/is a Bernie supporter and wrote pro-Bernie editorials.
It's absolutely crazy how some folks wanted him to take that bait. If Biden agreed with that, it'd start a whole news cycle of Trump deflecting from his failures and accusing Biden of politicizing deaths. The way to win is to keep the focus on Trump!
Lmao yes exactly.
As if we haven't had an entire campaign of MSNBC pundits making up all sorts of vague oblique criticisms, 'concerns' and reasons to not support Sanders (eg. 'toxic supporters) when they're too cowardly to criticize his policies head on, to say that they don't want their taxes to go up to pay for healthcare for poor people.
The entire country hasn't voted.
There are two options left to pick from.
I haven't voted yet.
The poor fellow is regressing now that it looks like a conservative dem has a chance at the presidency.
I mean the real answer is that he was always a grifter who's got a lifetime quality-control position in the consent plants but a useful idiot is, well, useful
No he wasn't. Everyone was joking about him being a Bernie supporter. He was just making the case that Bernie would be the best person to make Matty's moderate stances palatable to leftists.
Yglesias is ideologically opposed to Sanders and the left.
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