OP
OP
Trials population has always been tiny and a poor indicator of the game's overall popularity.
Also, based on our community, tons of people quit Xbox to move to PC.
Destiny 2: Curse of Osiris |OT| Guaranteed Lighthouse Run, $19.99
- Thread starter JohnOfMars
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Trials population has always been tiny and a poor indicator of the game's overall popularity.
Also, based on our community, tons of people quit Xbox to move to PC.
PC Player: Still reeeeeeeeeeeeeally want that PVE Strike and that Arcology PVP map. Nothing you say can convince me otherwise.
Aside from communication issues, there are very few mistakes shared between Destiny 1 and 2. D2's backlash, as a whole, is an entirely new beast.
I don't understand what you're getting at here. What were the numbers?
They know investment is a weak part of the game. It took a month and half or so for those hitting a plateau to reach critical mass. Saying there is no endgame is hyperbolic (saw MoreConsole repeat this several times in his latest video) because all the game parts are there as they were in D1: Raids, Nightfalls, Trials, etc. The returns on player investment for those activities aren't sufficiently interesting to coax people to play them regularly.
You're not wrong about PS4 exclusives being shitty, but that doesn't stop people from wanting them and feeling their version of the game is incomplete without them
Okay. That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that it's never been tinier with more platforms.
The strike is the Taken one, arguably the worst one in the game, and most of the time people quit out.
The numbers were low, like the numbers were low for Y3 D3. A game 3 years old vs a game 3 months old.
My personal list of fixes
1. 6v6 back even if just for clash and control
2. More exotics and reworking of current exotics to give them a strong and more powerful feel
3. Some form of weapon perk changes if even in the form of let's say farming for an item that let's you reroll a perk.
4. More unique quests for weapons
5. Exclusive crucible and strike gear
6. Ability to choose crucible match mode
7. Grenades to become a notch more powerful
8. Shaders no longer consumable
9. Eververse toned down and events no longer locked behind the loot boxes, this is an obvious one tho.
10. Snipers, shotguns, fusions moved back to their appropriate slot
These things for me would turn this game into an easy 6 months to a year solid play, just based on that... You add in more dlc, events etc... And the game would be well on its way.
Alot of these things I feel are fairly basic but would shift the game back to a more complete feeling game imho
1. 6v6 back even if just for clash and control
2. More exotics and reworking of current exotics to give them a strong and more powerful feel
3. Some form of weapon perk changes if even in the form of let's say farming for an item that let's you reroll a perk.
4. More unique quests for weapons
5. Exclusive crucible and strike gear
6. Ability to choose crucible match mode
7. Grenades to become a notch more powerful
8. Shaders no longer consumable
9. Eververse toned down and events no longer locked behind the loot boxes, this is an obvious one tho.
10. Snipers, shotguns, fusions moved back to their appropriate slot
These things for me would turn this game into an easy 6 months to a year solid play, just based on that... You add in more dlc, events etc... And the game would be well on its way.
Alot of these things I feel are fairly basic but would shift the game back to a more complete feeling game imho
Fun gun for some solo PVE play. I like it. Completely useless in PVP.
Got it. I'm asking what the numbers were vice the numbers for Y3 D1. Because again, there were 1.1 million people playing PvE yesterday and about 300,000 playing PvP. That's a lot of people playing a game with less current content than year 2 or year 3 D1.
Honestly, it just sounds to me like you're determined to paint the game as a failure, which it most assuredly is not. To say otherwise is disingenuous. It's clear there's no actual conversation to be had here, so I'm going to disengage.
OP
OP
Real talk?
I played 1200 hours of Destiny 1 and spent 3 years with the game and Bungie running the show. I've made my peace with the fact that Destiny will never be exactly what I want. Bungie will continue to change and improve and two steps forward and one step back. But the constants are that we have a great community and that Bungie will keep trying to make the game better.
2017 was a hell-ish year. Filled with the evil and awful and dumb events. 2018 doesn't look like it'll be any different. So if I'm going to be stuck in geohell, I might as well make the most of it. I have very little power politically and even less power to change Destiny. So what's left to me is the attitude and the friends I have.
This is my 2018 big mood:
You can roll your eyes and say that's saccharine horseshit and that's fine. I'm not asking anyone else to do this. I see problems just like y'all, I'm just done being salty. When Tuesday rolls around I want to hype my friends up for reset raiding rather than bringing everyone down by complaining about the same stuff week in, week out. There are problems in D2 and there are opportunities to improve, but I don't want to dwell on them. I'd much rather spend time with people being positive and supporting each other. I play games to have fun and challenge myself, not get angry. So in 2018, I'm going to be wholesome and love my friends and share every joy I can.
I played 1200 hours of Destiny 1 and spent 3 years with the game and Bungie running the show. I've made my peace with the fact that Destiny will never be exactly what I want. Bungie will continue to change and improve and two steps forward and one step back. But the constants are that we have a great community and that Bungie will keep trying to make the game better.
2017 was a hell-ish year. Filled with the evil and awful and dumb events. 2018 doesn't look like it'll be any different. So if I'm going to be stuck in geohell, I might as well make the most of it. I have very little power politically and even less power to change Destiny. So what's left to me is the attitude and the friends I have.
This is my 2018 big mood:
You can roll your eyes and say that's saccharine horseshit and that's fine. I'm not asking anyone else to do this. I see problems just like y'all, I'm just done being salty. When Tuesday rolls around I want to hype my friends up for reset raiding rather than bringing everyone down by complaining about the same stuff week in, week out. There are problems in D2 and there are opportunities to improve, but I don't want to dwell on them. I'd much rather spend time with people being positive and supporting each other. I play games to have fun and challenge myself, not get angry. So in 2018, I'm going to be wholesome and love my friends and share every joy I can.
Look, I don't remember the exact numbers. To me, the important takeaway was that a new game's population was on par with a game that was 3 years old. 1 million people playing PVE? Didn't it launch with like 8.5m people playing?
I'm not painting the game as a failure. I'm not making up these numbers.
https://i.imgur.com/rLUoY3f.jpg Is a screenshot of the daily player count graph that DTR removed.
Looks like PvE in D1 was somewhere around 400k-500k daily players before the release of destiny 2. Now it's around 1.1-1.3 million lately, looking at their "yesterdays numbers" stat.
Now what would be really interesting is if we could graph data from TTK and ROI and compare it to D2 launch dropoff. Unfortunately no one's done the legwork for that yet through the API. Bungie's API for player history is so powerful and open I think it might actually be possible to do though.
NF is Arms Dealer with Prism. Was hoping it to be the second DLC strike we haven't seen as a nightfall yet :(
You're not making up numbers......that you don't have?
That's one way to do it, I suppose.
Also, launch with 8.5 million players? There's no way you're serious with that.....right?
I'm going to walk through a basic game metrics estimation with ya.
Let's be generous and say there's 1.4 million DAU, assuming PVE and PVP players are unique.
There's 24 hours in the day, meaning there's 58,000 unique users per hour.
Assuming a session time of 1 hour, we can assume there's about 58,000 CCU split over 3 platforms.
Healthy? You judge.
I saw numbers on a chart from a website. I saw Trials numbers from trials.report. I saw it's not in the Xbox top 10. I'm not just coming in here pulling numbers from my ass.
I know launch numbers were high, but again, I can't just find a chart I saw 3 months ago.
This is me, I've said my piece as far as Destiny 2 is concerned, I have issues with the game and decisions that were made but I've put all of it out there already and so have MANY others. Bungie needs to see concerns and constructive criticism so they can make better decisions going forward but after a point there is nothing else to do except put the game down and wait if you aren't happy with it. I will just move on for a bit and play something else or enjoy the select parts of the game I can still play for fun and have a good time in. Getting worked up about nothing changing isn't going to help, when a new patch or big update hits I'll play the new stuff, voice my constructive criticisms and praise and then move on again. Wasting too much time and energy on the negative isn't going to help my life in any good or meaningful way.
Other games I've been enjoying:
PC: PUBG & Fortnite with friends and Assassin's Creed Origins for my solo time
Switch: Xenoblade Chronicles 2
You're joking, but this is actually how CCU numbers are estimated from DAU.
If you have a more refined model based on the information publically available, let me know--I'm hiring product managers right now.
I'll help you out a bit; this was posted in Reddit a while ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyThe...iny_2_player_dropoff_representative_sample_w/
I'm not joking. Just a bit bemused at the constant rush to somehow paint the game as a failure here.
Think I'm gonna take a long break from the thread. It's getting rough in here. Take care of each other.
Bungie's API lets you pull individual match history including the time and length of strikes and crucible matches.
With the right API calls and a random sample we could probably figure out the average session length rather than just guessing 1 hour.
Could actually be an interesting problem and im kinda surprised some redditor hasn't already done it.
I can only assume it's because the people who are best at this sort of stuff don't do it for free. It's very time-consuming work.
For a game like D2, CCU really only matters from a metrics standpoint in evaluating matchmaking quality, because the remaining content can mostly be played solo or with premade groups.
Without insight into how their matchmaking algorithms work, and with no knowledge of their matchmaking KPIs, we don't know if they're satisfied with the state of Crucible.
Personally, I think sitting more than two minutes in queue is a poor experience, so they're probably not hitting the critical mass of CCU required for smooth, balanced matches.
Yea and so is a huge portion of what D2 already is. The concept and core of this game took a step back. They brought back many old D1 exotics, we already have iron banner again etc... These things are all Destiny bro. We need newer and better exotics, exclusive gear per mode, 6v6 back etc... These are "good" aspects of D1 that need to simply be a staple.
For those who were just DEVASTATED by the possible "event exclusive" shaders from Dawning, it looks like they're now part of the Bright Engram pool
https://imgur.com/a/5XvMo
https://imgur.com/a/5XvMo
Good move!
Now I won't have to feel so apprehensive about using them.
And I wont have to feel apprehensive about deleting them! Bungie is such a forward thinker
The game is a failure in my eyes, personally. I expected an improvement from D1 and got the opposite.
If seeing low population numbers upsets you, not much I can do about that.
This is pretty cool but it does speak to the fact that bungie needs to communicate more explicitly all mechanics around stuff like Eververse. It's fine to have non-MTX stuff be discovered by players like this but they need to avoid that approach when dealing with MTX content and openly publish information immediately.
The problem with people discussing population is that it lacks informed context. We don't have global population metrics, we don't have well-established expectations for how a large release population decline should look like to show this is aberrant or a concern. It's merely brought up as a justification for why some are dissatisfied, and without those contexts, and without comparing apples-to-apples, is essentially sophistry.
Right, but you're basically proposing they undo almost every thing that distinguishes this game from the first. Wouldn't it be better to fix its problems in different ways that please all fans, both those happy and disappointed? Masterworks felt like a taste of something in that vein.
What worries me about Crimson Days coming back is if it's as MTX-heavy as the Dawning was. The community is already in thermo-nuclear meltdown mode to begin with so unless they DRASTICALLY change how these live events are implemented/executed and if Crimson Day's launches and is basically just another MTX-heavy event things will get even worse than they already are and I find it hard to think how things could get worse than they already are.
For the first time I genuinely think Bungie's at a real and tangible crossroads.
They've had 4+ months worth of feedback and they've done virtually nothing to address it all aside from the usual "We're listening" and "Thanks for the feedback" updates. Sure the December updates were a thing but keep in mind they still haven't implemented half the proposed fixes. Crimson Days is a Valentine's Day themed event so time's ticking, if they don't address or better yet actually implement some serious fixes and Crimson Days launches and is anywhere near as MTX-heavy as the Dawning... it will only get worse.
For the first time I genuinely think Bungie's at a real and tangible crossroads.
They've had 4+ months worth of feedback and they've done virtually nothing to address it all aside from the usual "We're listening" and "Thanks for the feedback" updates. Sure the December updates were a thing but keep in mind they still haven't implemented half the proposed fixes. Crimson Days is a Valentine's Day themed event so time's ticking, if they don't address or better yet actually implement some serious fixes and Crimson Days launches and is anywhere near as MTX-heavy as the Dawning... it will only get worse.
Thoughts on re-starting over on the PC version - I've noticed the majority of the public events I've played on PC no-one has a clue how to get them to go heroic. The pretty much only exception to this is the scarab tank one, generally people know what to do there but man, I jumped back in to PS4 to do the weekly refresh flashpoint and everyone is just on point on PS4, every event heroic in seconds, even the taken blight one which in general I only seem to get to go heroic 50% of the time.
On another note - I got accepted to clan SEXY on PC so thanks for that, but does anyone still play on PC from there?
On another note - I got accepted to clan SEXY on PC so thanks for that, but does anyone still play on PC from there?
Lol, okay. The game dropping out of the Xbox top 10, Trials population being lower on 3 platforms in 3 months than D1 in 3 years on 2 platforms, my empty friend's/clan list, low twitch viewership, reddit "toxicity", and bungie eververse protest is all a part of my deceptive plan to justify why I'm dissatisfied.
Looking at it solely from a moneymaking perspective, I'd say that the retention numbers are concerning, especially as there's no considerable player spike visible with live events (based on this link).
Since the overall population is unlikely to recover, this means that in order to maintain a consistent revenue stream, Bungie is going to need to push their monetization higher inversely proportionate to the decreasing size of the playerbase.
As an addendum, this is also why Eververse was likely added in the first place.
Sales of each additional expansion are going to be less than the previous, so the revenue overall goes down if quality is maintained. Basically, in other words, unless the player population is high enough, the entire Destiny monetization model is untenable, and MTX will be required to make up the difference.
Honestly man it's not worth the energy re-typing the same thing. I'm on your side btw. Just let the scenario play out. Someone's getting egg on their face eventually.
Apparently there's a glitch where you can get infinite Dawning rewards if you have a Gift (completed?) in your inventory still
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyThe...treset_infinite_dawning_engramrewards_glitch/
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyThe...treset_infinite_dawning_engramrewards_glitch/
I'm optimistic that 2018 will be a better year for Destiny 2's player experience. I've come to accept that it's the norm now that the first several months (maybe even the first year) are always going to be awkward for GaaS titles as they grow into their communities. I feel like the same was true for The Division, Destiny 1, and so on.
The biggest thing I want to change this year is Bungie's style of messaging. The Division's "State of the Game" streams gave players much more insight into fixes, incoming features/content, and so on. I'd love to see the same from Bungie's CommDev team. I want to see less of individual developers communicating tweaks or soliciting feedback on sites like twitter. CommDev folks should formalize a stream or section on TWAB's blog posts for developers and manage the message, and the community's expectations, that way.
Finally, I really feel that a PTS wouldn't hurt either! I've grown tired of events being canceled or sullied by things that should have been fixed before that content went live. (Mayhem was awful because of Novabomb spam but the holiday break meant a fix was impossible.)
The biggest thing I want to change this year is Bungie's style of messaging. The Division's "State of the Game" streams gave players much more insight into fixes, incoming features/content, and so on. I'd love to see the same from Bungie's CommDev team. I want to see less of individual developers communicating tweaks or soliciting feedback on sites like twitter. CommDev folks should formalize a stream or section on TWAB's blog posts for developers and manage the message, and the community's expectations, that way.
Finally, I really feel that a PTS wouldn't hurt either! I've grown tired of events being canceled or sullied by things that should have been fixed before that content went live. (Mayhem was awful because of Novabomb spam but the holiday break meant a fix was impossible.)