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Destruction All Stars introduces online bots due to low player count (you still have to pay for online multiplayer)

Bucéfalo

Banned
May 29, 2020
1,566
So, in their recent Reddit post, LucidGames stated that, among other changes, features and updates, the online multiplayer will use bots from now on. While I agree that this is going to improve the fun of people that are no having luck when trying to find online games, let's not forget that this is a game with online mode behind PS+ paywall. This means that, as a matter of fact, you will be paying to play online with the same opponents that you would have in offline mode.

Why doesn't Sony allow them to go free to play, instead of a paid product, a measure that would increase player count and allow free multiplayer? What do you think?
 
mcruz79

mcruz79

Member
Apr 28, 2020
2,815
Man, I think I've played 30 or 40 minutes in this game and after that uninstalled.
I just assume some multiplayer games are really not for me.
 
S1kkZ

S1kkZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,440
NocheToledana said:
So, in their recent Reddit post, LucidGames stated that, among other changes, features and updates, the online multiplayer will use bots from now on. While I agree that this is going to improve the fun of people that are no having luck when trying to find online games, let's not forget that this is a game with online mode behind PS+ paywall. This means that, as a matter of fact, you will be paying to play online with the same opponents that you would have in offline mode.

Why doesn't Sony allow them to go free to play, instead of a paid product, a measure that would increase player count and allow free multiplayer? What do you think?
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because there is barley any content to grind/pay for.
 
Lampa

Lampa

Member
Feb 13, 2018
3,661
Well chances are, you'll have to be subbed to PS+ to even play it, I think majority of players got it through PS+ when it came out, can't really imagine paying the $20 asking price for it.

With that being said, I liked the idea, but the execution lacked something for me. It really sucked at explaining key gameplay elements and afaik didn't have an option to try out various cars or characters.
 
Parham

Parham

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
295
Assuming they haven't already started working behind the scenes on transitioning to F2P, Sony may have decided the cost of pivoting is too high compared to its expected returns.
 
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Kalor

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,670
I doubt moving to F2P would really help with the amount of PS5s out there. A decent chunk of the playerbase probably already tried it with PS+ and decided if they were interested or not. Sort of the issue with launching an exclusive multiplayer game early on where it's easy to fall into playerbase issues if it doesn't instantly click.
 
Nintendo

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,388
For Honor has bots and it has a healthy playerbase. It's still getting consistent new content updates 5 years after launch. No doubt that DAS playerbase is suffering but bots aren't an indicator.

I think releasing it on PC with crossplay could help tremendously.
 
Last edited:
Patitoloco

Patitoloco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
23,714
NocheToledana said:
So, in their recent Reddit post, LucidGames stated that, among other changes, features and updates, the online multiplayer will use bots from now on. While I agree that this is going to improve the fun of people that are no having luck when trying to find online games, let's not forget that this is a game with online mode behind PS+ paywall. This means that, as a matter of fact, you will be paying to play online with the same opponents that you would have in offline mode.

Why doesn't Sony allow them to go free to play, instead of a paid product, a measure that would increase player count and allow free multiplayer? What do you think?
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Just a reminder that PUBG also has bots.

Just saying because the correlation between online paywall, having bots and player counts is not a thing.
 
Danielsan

Danielsan

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,729
The Netherlands
It's beyond dumb that they only made it free on PS+ for two months while no one was able to get their hands on a PS5. Would try it out for free but definitely not paying 20 bucks for it.
 
Rodelero

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,635
I feel sorry for the developers really, but I don't think any repackaging of this would really have worked. It's just not enjoyable enough to play so however many people were able to play the game, the user base was going to fall off of a cliff.

I feel like I've played a handful of these little multiplayer games over the last couple of years where they feel doomed on arrival. Rocket Arena, Worms Rumble, Bleeding Edge, Roller Champions and now this. I hope Knockout City does better, definitely the most promising, but I don't see where its legs come from. Even Fall Guys which obviously came out of the gate super strong fell off super hard.

In general it feels like a ton of developers that just underestimate what it takes to make a big multiplayer game these days when you're competing with free AAA GaaS.

The gameplay and modes is where this game falls down. I reckon the key mistake is making it arena derby oriented rather than racing oriented. A super zany version of wreckfest could have been extremely appealing in my opinion.
 
OP
OP

Bucéfalo

Banned
May 29, 2020
1,566
Patitoloco said:
Just a reminder that PUBG also has bots.
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PUBG can have 100 people matches, DAS has 16 people matches. If you can't fill a 16 people lobby with real people, there is a big problem. Furthermore, bots in PUBG helps decreasing the skill gap between new players and veterans, and allow newbies to not be overwhelmed when they first join. I think there is totally diffrent reasoning and justiification for bots implementation in those 2 games.

PS: and online multiplayer in PUBG is free, at least on PC.
 
ianpm31

ianpm31

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,553
Feel bad for the devs but It really should have been twisted metal. I don't understand why Sony doesn't utilize their ips from the ps1 days.
 
Ciao

Ciao

Member
Jun 14, 2018
4,895
Bought it for 20€ because I missed the PS+ version. Uninstalled that shit after 1h.
 
Jarod McChicken

Jarod McChicken

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,076
A free-to-play revamp would not change anything at this point. The core game from Lucid is pretty solid and fun, although not for a very long time, but every decision regarding the content and economics has been a joke from Sony.

You get barebone content and yet you still lock the pseudo campaign behind a paywall. And on top of that you're supposed to jump into the usual battle pass train, come on. And don't even start with the fact this was supposed to be a 80€ game.

Unlike their top quality single player games, Sony has a very long way to go before finding any success in the multiplayer/GAAS genre. We'll see if they manage to not screw everything with the Firewalk Studios game.
 
henhowc

henhowc

Member
Oct 26, 2017
33,785
Los Angeles, CA
Rocket league had bots when it launched on ps4 I think. I think I played them half the time because people would just drop out whenever they started losing.
 
Bardeh

Bardeh

Member
Jun 15, 2018
2,745
I think I played for maybe half an hour before uninstalling. There's just....nothing there. I guess if you really enjoyed the core gameplay it could last longer, but it's so anemic to me. I can't even imagine the outrage if they'd released this as a full-priced product as the plan initially was.
 
travisbickle

travisbickle

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,953
They need it. They setup a battle pass and have a credits giveaway as part of play-at-home, yet I tried it the other day and was waiting for ever just for one match.


Helix said:
this just sounds so sad :|
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Not really. Do you think you can turn up with a weird hero-car arena smashing game and you don't have to put the work in to make it popular?

There's a good idea in there but you have to work at it to make it better.
 
Cats_Schrodinger

Cats_Schrodinger

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,038
I hate to say I told y'all so but… I did.

The gameplay never felt right. Latency problems were rampant, taking away from every second crash that felt like a lottery. Cars were soap boxes that were sliding left and right unpredictably (thanks to that idiotic ability), making well timed T-Bones more dependent on pure luck than skill. On foot combat was abysmal and useless.

It just didn't feel good to play at all. Dropped it after a month. Just look at Wreckfest if you want a good feeling crashy destruction game.
 
Mbolibombo

Mbolibombo

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,043
Cant imagine how much this game would have struggled had they gone through with the 70$ price point it initially had.
 
JigglesBunny

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,252
Chicago
The gameplay is a total blast but there's just no incentive to keep playing.

There are hardly any maps, all of the modes that aren't deathmatch are running low on players, there's no real progression system to speak of other than overpriced skins unlocked through tedious grinding or microtransactions, and the single player stuff is unlocked with microtransactions after you complete the free first chapter.

They have such a great set of core mechanics, it just doesn't mean anything when there's no meat on the bone.
 

Deleted member 13798

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,374
Making the game free to play isn't going to fix the problem that it doesn't have a long term draw. There's been a lot of these types of colorful seemingly creative but kind of shallow games lately, a multiplayer game isn't easy to keep people engaged in.
 
AstralSphere

AstralSphere

Member
Feb 10, 2021
9,280
Man, that sucks. I like the studio and want them to do well, but the game just wasn't for me.

There's a lot I really liked about the game, but it was almost all to do with the presentation. I loved the character design and the art across the board, including the menus and UI. But I just don't really like multiplayer games, and couldn't gel with the car > on foot > car gameplay loop. There was just so little content for someone like me to want to dive into.
 
Alek

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,492
Raigor said:
The real test is going to be Factions 2.0 before Firewalk new title.
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The leaked footage seemed to indicate that Factions 2.0 would be peer to peer. So itl'll probably fizzle out like all of Sony's multiplayer games to be honest.

I'm a huge fan of factions and Uncharted multiplayer but their peer to peer connections and low tick rates make them a very poor experience for anyone seriously interested in competitive multiplayer.

And Sony don't seem to know what they're doing with that type of thing. Only Guerilla Games seemed to have a clue (Killzone had dedicated servers, a server browser, clan support, leaderboards etc).
 
Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,582
Nintendo said:
For Honor has bots and it has a healthy playerbase. It's still getting consistent new content updates 5 years after launch. No doubt that DAS playerbase is suffering but bots aren't an indicator.

I think releasing it on PC with crossplay could help tremendously.
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You generally don't spend money to port things elsewhere if it's not a success to some degree. Can we say for sure a port would be wise?
 
Alek

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,492
Also as for this game, it's not just a lack of content letting it down. The gameplay is shallow as fuck.

Honestly Sony should let Lucid have a go at the Twisted Metal IP. Prior to Destruction All Stars they made Switch Blade which has much better, and much more in-depth gameplay than DAS.
 
TechnicPuppet

TechnicPuppet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,867
Rodelero said:
I feel sorry for the developers really, but I don't think any repackaging of this would really have worked. It's just not enjoyable enough to play so however many people were able to play the game, the user base was going to fall off of a cliff.

I feel like I've played a handful of these little multiplayer games over the last couple of years where they feel doomed on arrival. Rocket Arena, Worms Rumble, Bleeding Edge, Roller Champions and now this. I hope Knockout City does better, definitely the most promising, but I don't see where its legs come from. Even Fall Guys which obviously came out of the gate super strong fell off super hard.

In general it feels like a ton of developers that just underestimate what it takes to make a big multiplayer game these days when you're competing with free AAA GaaS.

The gameplay and modes is where this game falls down. I reckon the key mistake is making it arena derby oriented rather than racing oriented. A super zany version of wreckfest could have been extremely appealing in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I agree it's just a very difficult market to break into and then maintain. Almost seems like lightning in a bottle sometimes as well.

Really you need to be MP as well. Or at least have a big % of the market covered.
 
Edge

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
tenor.gif
 
Kouriozan

Kouriozan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,234
Man, I remember when they wanted to sell it like a full priced game, kinda feel bad for the team to be honest.
 
Kaswa101

Kaswa101

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,760
Feel bad for the team, but damn this game really needed another year or two in the oven imo. Felt really underbaked in mechanics and content.
 
tok9

tok9

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,999
The game was already essentially f2p so redoing that isn't going to help. It's simply just not up to the quality levels of other games. I think another big issue with it is that they have team based modes but it never feels like they have any real team focus.

Also just wondering why is 'you still have to pay for online' in brackets. Are there examples where this is not the case on console? Is the bots a completely separate mode OP?
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,330
I'll admit I never played it online. The game has decent core mechanics and I'll jump in every few weeks for the challenges but the lack of arena variety really kills my desire to stick with it for more than 15 minutes.
 
elenarie

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,998
Every game needs to have bots in online / training modes / whatever. And I'm saying this as someone that mostly works on games that don't do that. :D

It goes far beyond just sustaining a player count. It helps ease people into multiplayer experiences by first offering them a safer environment to get more familiar with the game first, before jumping into the real thing.

(I don't know if this game had this already, never had any interest in it to check.)
 
beelulzebub

beelulzebub

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,650
Man that's depressing.

Not much of an online gamer, so honestly the big thing that kept me away was the double whammy of my mic being on by default and turning it off too late, then having to hear my team throughout the match. I played one match and never came back because of that. What I played seemed solid.
 
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