Razor Mom

Member
Jan 2, 2018
2,551
United Kingdom
NmaCIHF.jpg

If you go to 6:34 in the video (where he mentions the missing lens flare) you can also see clearly that the 360 version has an object motion blur effect that is completely missing on Switch.
Almost 100% sure that the 360 Souls did not have per-object motion blur, and what you're seeing there is just a blurry shot. Pretty sure it has a camera motion blur, though, so it might be some kind of camera shake from the dragon's impact.
 

catboy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,322
The sound quality is actually unacceptable, I hope they patch it. I'm so disappointed, sticking with just the amiibo for now.
 

SiG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,485
I just started playing and I really hope Virtuos Studios is patching the whole A/B button confirmation thing.

Also the audio isn't as bad as people claim to be, although I did turn up the volume to 10.

I'm glad I have it now since I can play Dark Souls in bed.
 

SiG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,485
Well it's a great game even with a shoddy port. I played it initially on PS3 which seems to be about as bad or worse than this and its my favorite game since Mario 64.

That said... this doesn't seem like a great effort. I own every other version but I don't really see any point in buying this.
I bought it for the portability, That, and I prefer the original assets over the Remastered ones in other platforms...though I could see the PC community "fixing" the remastered version by retweaking the lighting and textures to match the old one.

Having just played a bit of it, I say it's presence on Switch is justified: Bed Souls here I come!
 

nanskee

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,072
Its a bit of a shame. I'm really interested but I think they could've done a bit better, at least fix the audio.

I still don't understand the 6 month delay either
 

SwitchedOff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,517
The audio is really bad, and I hope there's enough pressure on Bamco to do something about it. Even if you've never played the game before, it's clear just how low the sample rate is, making it sound like that Virtuos got their audio assets from Kazaa or something.

We can all put pressure on Bamco, the devs and so on by tweeting them. This is from reddit -

Bandai Namco English twitter accounts are -

US - https://twitter.com/BandaiNamcoUS

UK - https://twitter.com/BandaiNamcoUK

Also tweet the devs, Virtuous Games, here's their twitter:

https://twitter.com/virtuosgames

These too:

https://twitter.com/DarkSoulsGame

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica

And for anyone that knows Japanese:

JP: https://twitter.com/bnam_jp

FromSoft: https://twitter.com/fromsoftware_pr
 

Gianko

Member
Nov 1, 2017
425
ROME, ITALY
i'm playing the game and i think it's very good! i just played Bloodborne before and that was awesome!
i think that judging this version by comparing to the one on the other consoles is useless! i mean, it's like comparing a game that runs on a monster pc to the one that runs on Xbox/Ps4. Pc always wins and the twin consoles always will on the tiny Switch!
But the Switch version is good and i don't think that few upgrades will make it a lot better!
about the sound...well i don't ear any issue and i play only docked and with an home theatre.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,414
It's great that there are many people who don't take issue with the port's shortcomings, but the issues pointed out here and elsewhere set a low bar. Like, yes of course the audio quality shouldn't sound like tinny 128 kbps mp3s. Frame rate dips may happen, but of course the game should have good frame pacing when it does hit its target frame rate. These aren't impossible asks. Of course the game should not look worse than its source material if it's a remaster. Ask yourself this: if they removed or downgraded effects from the game to make it hit its target frame rate, as some have claimed, why do they sell it under the guise of a Remaster instead of calling it what it is, namely a port? If the effects are put back in and it runs as heinously as it does in the original, what does that say about the remastering being done on this? The more footage and comparisons I see, the more I start to wonder what exactly is remastered in a good way about this release part from resolution and the average frame rate.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,149
It's great that there are many people who don't take issue with the port's shortcomings, but the issues pointed out here and elsewhere set a low bar. Like, yes of course the audio quality shouldn't sound like tinny 128 kbps mp3s. Frame rate dips may happen, but of course the game should have good frame pacing when it does hit its target frame rate. These aren't impossible asks. Of course the game should not look worse than its source material if it's a remaster. Ask yourself this: if they removed or downgraded effects from the game to make it hit its target frame rate, as some have claimed, why do they sell it under the guise of a Remaster instead of calling it what it is, namely a port? If the effects are put back in and it runs as heinously as it does in the original, what does that say about the remastering being done on this? The more footage and comparisons I see, the more I start to wonder what exactly is remastered in a good way about this release part from resolution and the average frame rate.

Frame pacing on console is a series staple mate, can't take that out.
 

LastCupOfBullets

Alt account
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
575
Hey mods, where is this heavy handed approach to moderation in non-Switch threads? Valve/Steam threads for instance get much worse than this and it goes untouched.

The dude is clearly even a Nintendo fan. And this is a Digital Foundry thread, where comparisons are meant to be made.

For sure. He meant no ill intent.
 

darz1

Member
Dec 18, 2017
7,137
About what I expected: better than last-gen in certain ways, worse in others, and overall the worst version of the re-release to play. I guess it's not too horrible of an experience if this is your first time but this looks like an experience anyone could have had at any point in the past seven years.
"Not too horrible of an experience"

Thats a box cover quote if I ever heard one. Seriously, its Dark Souls. Its not going to be horrible. It's gonna be awsome. Its fucking Dark Souls. And its portable. Fucking awesome
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
The lack of bloom and horrible color grading in some effects and the compressed to shit audio don't look like performance saving optimizations. Bloom is an extremely cheap effect, and so is good audio. These are just shoddy elements that ought to be patched out.
 

Deleted member 10234

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,922
Fire and lava had the bloom removed, which makes them look a lot simpler, even though the mesh seems identical.

qiqkca9.gif
This just looks like the bloom implementation was super inefficient and rather than fixing it they removed it to keep the framerate high. That 360 version looks like a stuttery mess next to the Switch.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
Does anyone have any screen shots of Lost Izalith in the Switch version? How does the lava and flame monsters there compare to the meh shown In the dragon fire/queelag gif/video?
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,317
I'm fairly disappointed with this. Still own PTDE on Steam and wanted a version with 60fps that didn't break the game nor have a version that didn't introduce new bugs.

This just looks like the bloom implementation was super inefficient and rather than fixing it they removed it to keep the framerate high. That 360 version looks like a stuttery mess next to the Switch.

No, while it can look nice it was an eyesore in later areas. That's why the effects was removed.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
This just looks like the bloom implementation was super inefficient and rather than fixing it they removed it to keep the framerate high. That 360 version looks like a stuttery mess next to the Switch.

Bloom alone doesn't have that effect. It's likely they removed something that added transparency (I saw somewhere a reference to an issue with alpha textures, I don't know a ton about graphical effects so I can't add more than that). The 360 version as a whole kinda ran like garbage, so it's not like cutting those effects down alone was necessary to get acceptable frame rates.
 

Polioliolio

Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,404
As far as it being closer to original effects for the most part, I strongly prefer these original lighting and effects over the other "remasters".
 

SwitchedOff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,517
As far as it being closer to original effects for the most part, I strongly prefer these original lighting and effects over the other "remasters".

I do too - I really hated the visual changes in the other Remasters - the lighting, changed objects (bonfire, fog gate, torches on walls, etc). The lighting and the bonfire were particularly awful - gone was the mystical looking snake-like effect of the original bonfire, only to be replaced with a very generic flame effect. And as for the lighting changes, they badly affected the original mysterious and otherwordly atmosphere.
 

ShadowFox08

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
3,524
R
I'm a bit sad about reduced flame effects and the lack of the new bonfire.
I'm considering not opening my package until the A+B cancel/confirm inconsistency is patched. I absolutely can't stand that. It's by far my biggest disappointment, probably because I really suck at identifying audio differences (though I did notice something changed when put side by side).
Really not that big of a deal. You get used to it.
 

noyram23

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,372
So vs 360

+better resolution
+better performance
-worse effects
-worse audio quality

Why did they delay this one again?

Is that the return of 'cheese fire' from Mighty No. 9?
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
So vs 360

+better resolution
+better performance
-worse effects
-worse audio quality

Why did they delay this one again?

Is that the return of 'cheese fire' from Mighty No. 9?
It's literally one effect where the color grading and the bloom (Cheapest effect ever) are changed. Most surely with no effect in performance. Other alpha-heavy areas do fine in fact.
I don't know why Digital Foundry assumes the change is for performance reasons, to me it looks like a horrible design decision because the rest of the alpha effects are the same with no detriment to performance and the alpha effect is the fire is actually the same, just with different brightness and no bloom. The heat distortion remains as well. I bet a local mask in Photoshop with changes in brightness and a blur filter would make it look the same.
 

PrimeRib

Member
Nov 16, 2017
261
I gotta say, I don't mind the A/B switch. I plat'd the game on PS3, started playing Remastered on PS4 and now that I'm on the Switch version, it's ingrained muscle memory to gravitate towards the same buttons I've been using on past Dark Souls playthroughs.

The audio though ... its horrid. Even then, it's still Dark Souls on Switch. I was literally giddy yesterday playing on my couch with the fireplace on and literally stopped caring about it 30 minutes in...
I'd like for them to patch a fix in, certainly, but it in no means detracts from a portable Souls-experience.
 

Cup O' Tea?

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,610
I'm actually okay with the visual downgrades but the crappy audio is unacceptable to me. It's really obvious using mid-range headphones.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
It's literally one effect where the color grading and the bloom (Cheapest effect ever) are changed. Most surely with no effect in performance. Other alpha-heavy areas do fine in fact.
I don't know why Digital Foundry assumes the change is for performance reasons, to me it looks like a horrible design decision because the rest of the alpha effects are the same with no detriment to performance and the alpha effect is the fire is actually the same, just with different brightness and no bloom. The heat distortion remains as well. I bet a local mask in Photoshop with changes in brightness and a blur filter would make it look the same.

It may have just been a change to one of the fire/lava materials that's used in Lost Izalith/Demon Ruins and reused elsewhere, since the bloom can get really intense at times in the original game. Sometimes annoyingly so.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,053
Good video. Was on the fence, leaning towards buying it, but having just played Remastered on PC several months ago, I'm going to pass. If they do some patches and smooth things out a bit, maybe I'll pick it up again. Couldn't pass up on the Amiibo though.
 

Polioliolio

Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,404
One effect. One single effect is worse and it was apparently a design decision.


But it's not one?

Dragon fire effect is the most changed, the lava is missing an effect, and it sounds like all the effects in general have a lower resolution to their effect if I understood the video correctly. The moon is missing in the siff fight. This one may not be, the fog wall looks a little plain (was it like that in the steam release?).

I'm not saying don't buy the game, I think this one is worth buying over the ps4/Xbone "remasters". It's fine for a portable version.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
But it's not one?

Dragon fire effect is the most changed, the lava is missing an effect, and it sounds like all the effects in general have a lower resolution to their effect if I understood the video correctly. The moon is missing in the siff fight. This one may not be, the fog wall looks a little plain (was it like that in the steam release?).

I'm not saying don't buy the game, I think this one is worth buying over the ps4/Xbone "remasters". It's fine for a portable version.

Oh, I didn't see they said it was more than one effect. I was told it was just the fire and lava, which likely share a material or shader which is missing one bloom effect.

The moon missing in the Sif fight is odd but again that sounds more like it would be a design choice than a hardware limitation. Same with the fog wall, it's a different texture not a downgraded effect.

Whatever the case I don't think any of these effects were changed due to hardware limitations, but rather design choices. The reduced bloom has a good reason (it gets way too intense in Lost Izalith in the original) and I'm betting the other changes have good reasons too, though we may not be aware of them (or like them).
 

Polioliolio

Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,404
If Nintendo didn't roll out their online thingy (roll back free online play), I'd have bought this. I've already put in hundreds of hours into the game, and have little drive to go back, but it does sound fun to jump into the switch version for the multiplayer, just don't want to add another subscription service to the list for this.
 

sleepnaught

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,538
The dragon fire/lava effect looks pretty bad, but I could look past that if the audio wasn't such a mess. I want to get this game so bad, but I refuse to purchase it until they fix the audio. Voting with my wallet on this issue.
 
Apr 21, 2018
6,969
Not going to lie I'm very tempted to buy this. What I took away from the DF video is it's a very competent port that runs well. That's good enough for me. Price is lower than I expected too.

It's probably between this and Diablo 3 as my last Switch game of the year next to Smash.
 

xxbrothawizxx

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,234
Gainesville, FL
Oh, I didn't see they said it was more than one effect. I was told it was just the fire and lava, which likely share a material or shader which is missing one bloom effect.

The moon missing in the Sif fight is odd but again that sounds more like it would be a design choice than a hardware limitation. Same with the fog wall, it's a different texture not a downgraded effect.

Whatever the case I don't think any of these effects were changed due to hardware limitations, but rather design choices. The reduced bloom has a good reason (it gets way too intense in Lost Izalith in the original) and I'm betting the other changes have good reasons too, though we may not be aware of them (or like them).
Unless you mean fitting onto the smallest cart possible, I'm not sure how that could apply here. Performance had to be the reason.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Unless you mean fitting onto the smallest cart possible, I'm not sure how that could apply here. Performance had to be the reason.

The game is 3.9GB, which cannot fit onto a 4GB card. So it's on an 8GB card.

They have like 3GB of usable space left.


Why exactly is performance the reason? Some of these effects barely even have a processing cost, like bloom. The game has been greatly improved in both resolution and framerate yet they had to cut corners on some of these effects which don't even give them any additional headroom?

Plus I'm pretty sure the game runs at the lower handheld clock settings. The battery drains very slowly for me. Therefore they could have used the boost clocks in handheld mode if they ran into performance issues. But they didn't seem to have done so.

EDIT: vvvvv Or they're glitches
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
The moon and lens flare effects missing aren't design choices, they're glitches. Also present in the original PC version if you increase the resolution. Moving your camera so that your character covers the place where the effect should be and then moving it again usually fixes it.

It's related to resolutions above the original resolution the game was released in. Which was 1024x720, so even the portable Switch version has a higher resolution, triggering the glitch.

On the PC version of the Remaster, I noticed you lose the lens flare effects at resolutions higher than 1080p (so they fixed it for the base consoles but ended up breaking again for the enhanced machines), and the reason is because it's actually displaying the effects somewhere else, as if they're still mapped to a 1080p screen. Changing the resolution and then back again usually works, and for whatever reason seems to fix it for the rest of the game, no need to do it every time you load your save file. Though it'll probably break again if you load a save file at 1080p and then increase the resolution.
 

sleepnaught

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,538
Oh, I didn't see they said it was more than one effect. I was told it was just the fire and lava, which likely share a material or shader which is missing one bloom effect.

The moon missing in the Sif fight is odd but again that sounds more like it would be a design choice than a hardware limitation. Same with the fog wall, it's a different texture not a downgraded effect.

Whatever the case I don't think any of these effects were changed due to hardware limitations, but rather design choices. The reduced bloom has a good reason (it gets way too intense in Lost Izalith in the original) and I'm betting the other changes have good reasons too, though we may not be aware of them (or like them).
I admit I know nothing about game effects and what not, but in the DF video(5:28) they call it a volumetric fog effect. Sounds like it was downgraded for performance reasons. I don't see any other reason why since the other Remastered versions had the better effect.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
I admit I know nothing about game effects and what not, but in the DF video(5:28) they call it a volumetric fog effect. Sounds like it was downgraded for performance reasons. I don't see any other reason why since the other Remastered versions had the better effect.

I'll be able to watch it later but are they comparing the fog wall to the original or the other remasters? The other remasters use a completely different fog wall from the original which was also a bit of a downgrade. Maybe not technically but aesthetically.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
The moon and lens flare effects missing aren't design choices, they're glitches. Also present in the original PC version if you increase the resolution. Moving your camera so that your character covers the place where the effect should be and then moving it again usually fixes it.

It's related to resolutions above the original resolution the game was released in. Which was 1024x720, so even the portable Switch version has a higher resolution, triggering the glitch.

On the PC version of the Remaster, I noticed you lose the lens flare effects at resolutions higher than 1080p (so they fixed it for the base consoles but ended up breaking again for the enhanced machines), and the reason is because it's actually displaying the effects somewhere else, as if they're still mapped to a 1080p screen. Changing the resolution and then back again usually works, and for whatever reason seems to fix it for the rest of the game, no need to do it every time you load your save file. Though it'll probably break again if you load a save file at 1080p and then increase the resolution.


I'm getting an idea what the code base for Dark Souls must look like.