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InspectorJones

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,626
RE1 to RE3 are readily available for PS3/PSP/Vita.

Great places to play them; but all ancient systems and some of them were extremely niche systems, so I wouldn't argue that given their age that they're made available to as many customers as they can. Aren't all the Final Fantasy games available on Steam right now? Where is Code Veronica X HD on Steam?

Love playing RE1-3 on the Vita btw; it's my Persona/Resident Evil portable heaven, but only like 5 people are going to buy a Vita this year.
 

lazygecko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
The Gamecube version is the best way to replay this game right now because of the ability to inject custom backgrounds using Dolphin. It's not exactly a remaster, but it's definitely a huge improvement.

Plus GC is the only version which lets you skip the in-engine cut scenes if you want to. No other version does that.

mjgobrk31exl.jpg

16o9svaqaibi.jpg


lcv2bcxg9e9s.jpg

yxoymh549dfr.jpg

I'm really curious over whether we could train neural upscaling algorithms on old low res backgrounds like these to produce more convincing results.
 

KalBalboa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,968
Massachusetts
Great places to play them; but all ancient systems and some of them were extremely niche systems, so I wouldn't argue that given their age that they're made available to as many customers as they can. Aren't all the Final Fantasy games available on Steam right now? Where is Code Veronica X HD on Steam?

Love playing RE1-3 on the Vita btw; it's my Persona/Resident Evil portable heaven, but only like 5 people are going to buy a Vita this year.

Yeah, but something like 80-90 million people owned a PS3 and apparently PSP was around 82 million units.

With all that said- it'd SURE be nice to be able to play PS1 games on my PS4.
 

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
Great places to play them; but all ancient systems and some of them were extremely niche systems, so I wouldn't argue that given their age that they're made available to as many customers as they can. Aren't all the Final Fantasy games available on Steam right now? Where is Code Veronica X HD on Steam?

Love playing RE1-3 on the Vita btw; it's my Persona/Resident Evil portable heaven, but only like 5 people are going to buy a Vita this year.
Capcom would do well to release something of an ultimate collection of RE games on PC, but these games aren't that hard to track down. The PS3 might be "ancient", but it's the one console that can play more RE games than any other out there outside of homebrew solutions. It has RE1 to 6, CVX, RE1HD, RE0HD, Revelations 1 and 2 and both Chronicles games (and Operation Raccoon City, I guess).
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,089
The first time I played RE2 was only a few years ago and after a bit of research I actually went with the Dreamcast version on a CRT.

I'm gonna try to play RE3 for the first time before the RE2 remake comes out so it'd be interesting to see a comparison between the versions of that game. Right now I just have a PSN copy of the PS1 version, which I can play on my PSP 1000 or my PS3 which is hooked up to a CRT. Same goes for Both Dino Crisis games, but now I'm interested in all the ports. Does the GameCube version of RE3 have the same improvements? Is there a Sourcenext version of RE3 (edit: there is)? I'm not sure they'd be worth the cost of buying copies though since I got my PSN copy for like $2 on sale.

Get the sourcenext version here:

http://www.sourcenext.com/products/capcom/bio2.html

You might need help navigating. There are English patches for it available easily online.

The original PC version is selling for $99.99 on Amazon, I can't find it on any storefront like Steam, GOG etc.

But they don't ship outside Japan do they?
 

InspectorJones

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,626
With all that said- it'd SURE be nice to be able to play PS1 games on my PS4.

That's Sony's fault in general; I can't believe they're holding back PS1 titles of all things. Like the emulation that would be possible with PS Classics would be fantastic but PSNow exists and ruins everything. (Edit: As Adamska points below, I'm not sure if PS1 titles are made available or not, I've never used it before which makes it even more frustrating that they're not even made available at all on PS4.)

But Capcom could choose to bring more of these titles to PC as my argument wasn't just PS centered; I don't think they're holding them back out of any brand loyalty to Playstation considering RE2 has been made available on other platforms since (And have you seen how loyal they were with RE4 and Nintendo?) so I'm only left to guess that it must not seem lucrative enough to do so? Maybe I'm vastly ignorant, but it doesn't seem like it'd take that much work to port over the titles with very little enhancements or even go the route of some developers and just release emulated versions for these old games if costs are an issue.
 
Last edited:

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
Thank you very much https://www.resetera.com/members/8789/

Joe do I hot link usernames? It's sometimes brings them up when u type a name but not always?
I think you need to type @ + the username (no space between). Like Anthony Hopkins. You then choose the user from the drop-down list.
That's Sony's fault in general; I can't believe they're holding back PS1 titles of all things. Like the emulation that would be possible with PS Classics would be fantastic but PSNow exists and ruins everything.
Are there even PS1 games on PS Now?
 

Booga

Alt account
Banned
Sep 15, 2018
937
The Gamecube version is the best way to replay this game right now because of the ability to inject custom backgrounds using Dolphin. It's not exactly a remaster, but it's definitely a huge improvement.

Plus GC is the only version which lets you skip the in-engine cut scenes if you want to. No other version does that.

mjgobrk31exl.jpg

16o9svaqaibi.jpg


lcv2bcxg9e9s.jpg

yxoymh549dfr.jpg
Those backgrounds look like garbage. It is just the originals with Gimp's "oil painting" filter applied, and stretched to a higher resolution. It would be amazing if someone actually did a proper remaster of these images some day. And then injected them into the GCN version. That would be worth playing. This is actually even less attractive than the "smoothing" filter the PS3 applies to PSX games.

Speaking of which, I was surprised the DF Retro doesn't mention the ability to play the Dual Shock edition on Vita with a smooth AF bilinear filtering, and that lovely OLED, or on PS3 with a smoothing filter that is similar to one used in SNES/GBA/NES emulators. Even though it is technically the playstation original, the hardware itself offers some pretty nice play options. The Vita, in my opinion is probably the best way to currently play RE2.
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,629
Awesome watch.

It's was incredible how good Capcom just followed up with the sequel to RE1, GOAT stuff. I got PS1 RE: Director's Cut (OG release, not the Dual Shock) and played the RE2 demo so many times the previous year leading up to RE2's release, the hype was just too much!

Still got my PS1 copies of RE: Director's Cut and Resident Evil 2 OG release still on my self. I'm waiting to see how far the hacking scene goes and want to add RE2 to the PS Classic in time with proper scanline support.
 

Lukar

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,476
Fantastic video, as always.

Watching this got me really excited for the remake. Gonna be fun to compare and contrast it against the original RE2.
 

Lukemia SL

Member
Jan 30, 2018
9,388
It seems John forgot to mention that on the N64 version the part where Claire says that the rats were carrying the virus to Annette also plays over Ada's part of that scene.

This was a great video.
 

Baccus

Banned
Dec 4, 2018
5,307
Imagine if DF didn't exist. This hobby would be a whole different thing. They're the missing link, basically.

Thank you for everything.
 

Vibranium

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,523
Awesome DF video of an awesome game. I truly wish Capcom would put out a "Resident Evil Classic" collection with games 1-CVX.
 

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,086
Those backgrounds look like garbage. It is just the originals with Gimp's "oil painting" filter applied, and stretched to a higher resolution. It would be amazing if someone actually did a proper remaster of these images some day. And then injected them into the GCN version. That would be worth playing. This is actually even less attractive than the "smoothing" filter the PS3 applies to PSX games.

Speaking of which, I was surprised the DF Retro doesn't mention the ability to play the Dual Shock edition on Vita with a smooth AF bilinear filtering, and that lovely OLED, or on PS3 with a smoothing filter that is similar to one used in SNES/GBA/NES emulators. Even though it is technically the playstation original, the hardware itself offers some pretty nice play options. The Vita, in my opinion is probably the best way to currently play RE2.

There's a more sanitary way to slightly smooth out the backgrounds so they look somewhat 'cleaner' while not being 'toon-ified' by the filter:

This would still probably qualify as the best way to replay the game, as you can increase the internal resolution via Dolphin and have all 3D elements (character models etc) run on 4K while have the cleanest looking backgrounds of any version of the game. Even the Source Next PC version still has the exact same 240p images, it only has high bitrate videos, the backgrounds weren't worked on at all.

I completely understand. Not everyone will be a fan of these kind of extreme filters.

The dolphin fork Ishiruka also has 'standard' smoothing options that try their best to clean up the image as it is without adding any filters.

Look at the Hamburger sign or the cars in the bottom of the image.

Normal:
without37ugw.png


With smoothing applied:
withgiuyw.png

But I'll be honest, the filtered backgrounds don't look that bad when you're playing the game that way. I played through the game like that a couple of months ago and it's actually good. The pack with those backgrounds doesn't have B scenario specific locations so anytime I ran into a location that was exclusive to the B scenario, it would switch over to the original backgrounds and the immense loss in quality/clarity would be immediately noticeable.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
The N64 version of RE2 is my favorite version because of its so-called "first person" control scheme that later turned up in REMAKE HD. I know some people dislike it because they struggle to adjust to changing camera angles, but I consider it a huge QoL improvement. It also has some significant visual advantages over the PS1 version since character models don't wobble.

It always annoyed me how the later ports to DC/GC didn't incorporate the N64 version's improvements to produce a definitive version of the game.
 

MrCunningham

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
1,372
YAAAAAAS KING talk about leg textures on the n64 please!

My old image comparisons from NeoGAF....


XO31SeQ.png


H6evpqE.png


CBN8Mey.png


yUsA5s4.png


Those are the direct texture rips from both the N64 and PS1 versions. The N64 game definitely took a hit here, and there is also less texture variety in zombies too overall. And yeah, those Leon Kennedy leg textures.... But all things considering, the N64 port of RE2 is a miracle in itself, the game really lost very little in the port to the N64. I believe there are a few seconds of FMV missing from the N64 game overall, and doesn't have any of the additional features from the Dual Shock version of RE2. But the game is all there.

RE2 on the N64 was the first Resident Evil game that I played from beginning to end. I remember buying it for $10 from a "previously played" bin from a Hollywood Video rental shop. I actually played the game using nothing but the N64 d-pad too on both Leon and Claire's quests, and I had no problem with it at all. Objectionably it is one of the worst home ports, besides the Game.Com version. But it was fine, otherwise. Angle Studios did such a bang up job with the port. I also cant believe how good the music was too, even if the voice audio did suffer from compression and lower bit rate.
 

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,885
My old image comparisons from NeoGAF....


XO31SeQ.png


H6evpqE.png


CBN8Mey.png


yUsA5s4.png


Those are the direct texture rips from both the N64 and PS1 versions. The N64 game definitely took a hit here, and there is also less texture variety in zombies too overall. And yeah, those Leon Kennedy leg textures.... But all things considering, the N64 port of RE2 is a miracle in itself, the game really lost very little in the port to the N64. I believe there are a few seconds of FMV missing from the N64 game overall, and doesn't have any of the additional features from the Dual Shock version of RE2. But the game is all there.

RE2 on the N64 was the first Resident Evil game that I played from beginning to end. I remember buying it for $10 from a "previously played" bin from a Hollywood Video rental shop. I actually played the game using nothing but the N64 d-pad too on both Leon and Claire's quests, and I had no problem with it at all. Objectionably it is one of the worst home ports, besides the Game.Com version. But it was fine, otherwise. Angle Studios did such a bang up job with the port. I also cant believe how good the music was too, even if the voice audio did suffer from compression and lower bit rate.
WHEW look at those pants! WEEEERK
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,875
Japan
The N64 version of RE2 is my favorite version because of its so-called "first person" control scheme that later turned up in REMAKE HD. I know some people dislike it because they struggle to adjust to changing camera angles, but I consider it a huge QoL improvement. It also has some significant visual advantages over the PS1 version since character models don't wobble.

It always annoyed me how the later ports to DC/GC didn't incorporate the N64 version's improvements to produce a definitive version of the game.

The models aren't wobbling, the textures are just adjusting. I personally think this video makes it abundantly clear that the character models actually look quite a bit better on the Playstation version, and considerably so on the Dreamcast, where the N64 version loses the one advantage it has (smoother edges).
 

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,086
The models aren't wobbling, the textures are just adjusting. I personally think this video makes it abundantly clear that the character models actually look quite a bit better on the Playstation version.

Yep, even the pictures a couple of posts above with the 'cleaner' N64 models looks off. PS1 has grungy looking but clearly better detailed models. Just look at those pants .. and claire's chin.

Also, the cube version's C-Type control scheme is just as good of an alternate scheme, if not better, than the analog implementation in the N64 version of RE2.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
The models aren't wobbling, the textures are just adjusting.
Yes they are. The PS1 lacks subpixel accuracy. Just look at Leon's arms, for example. They don't gently move as he breathes, but rather wobble constantly. The PS1 was basically incapable of rendering stable 3D like the N64 and Dreamcast did. The texture warping and lack of bilinear filtering are additional problems on top of that.
 

MrCunningham

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
1,372
The models aren't wobbling, the textures are just adjusting. I personally think this video makes it abundantly clear that the character models actually look quite a bit better on the Playstation version, and considerably so on the Dreamcast, where the N64 version loses the one advantage it has (smoother edges).

Pretty sure the N64 meshes use the exact same number of polygons as the PS1 meshes, and there are some minor issues with vertex alignment with the PS1 models, which do cause some texture distortion. The biggest difference with the N64 and PS1 games are the textures. Which do make the models look a bit different as well.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Pretty sure the N64 meshes use the exact same number of polygons as the PS1 meshes, and there are some minor issues with vertex alignment with the PS1 models, which do cause some texture distortion.
The N64 version's character models were very different.

N64 Leon is 1,031 polygons.

PS1 Leon is 407 polygons

The increased polygon helps make character joints less obvious. But one underrated truth about character models is that texture quality (and in modern games, shader work) trumps raw poly counts. Having to fit textures into 64x64 (at most) tiles caused severe issues. Especially since every additional texture split introduced overheads.
 

Seregil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62
Is the original PS1 version the only one with the blue soda machines that look like they have the coca cola logo on them? I know they changed it in the Dual Shock version.
 

MrCunningham

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
1,372
The N64 version's character models were very different.

N64 Leon is 1,031 polygons.

PS1 Leon is 407 polygons

The increased polygon helps make character joints less obvious. But one underrated truth about character models is that texture quality (and in modern games, shader work) trumps raw poly counts. Having to fit textures into 64x64 (at most) tiles caused severe issues. Especially since every additional texture split introduced overheads.

Oh yeah that's right. It looks like they added more subdivision to the faces to probably compensate for how the different textures were mapped onto the model. Though they did add a lot more vertices to the head as well, and to the joints. But overall, they really didn't change the model much, as the silhouette looks pretty much the same. You don't see any additional angles around the shoulders, arms and hands. It is not an obvious bump in polygons.
 

Tagg

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,717
I'd be curious to know the asset file size breakdown for the N64 cartridge. I assume almost half of the 64MB would have gone towards the FMVs.
 

ResidentDante

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,076
Oslo, Norway
Great video as always John!

I listened to your podcast with CVXfreak too, really great listen where you go through all the RE games.

Curious to ask though: Which of Saturn RE1 and N64 RE2 takes the biggest background downgrade versus the PS1 versions respectively?
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
Great video as always John!

I listened to your podcast with CVXfreak too, really great listen where you go through all the RE games.

Curious to ask though: Which of Saturn RE1 and N64 RE2 takes the biggest background downgrade versus the PS1 versions respectively?
N64 takes the bigger hit
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,201
The fact that the N64 port is considered a miracle is just reason #1,395,034,872 why Nintendo was so fucking insane to go with Carts that gen

I mean it IS a miracle... but damn..
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,396
I don't know why Capcom haven't re-released the original trilogy on Steam,PS4,XO, etc, it would be very quick to put together & would sell like hotcakes for say 15 bucks, nostalgia is in these days. hell im surprised original RE2 port wasn't a pre order bonus for the remake.
 

Lukemia SL

Member
Jan 30, 2018
9,388
So was the N64 version of RE2 a lead up to Capcom and Angel studios coming together to make Red Dead Revolver? I don't know the full story on that game.
 

javiBear

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
886
This was such a well made and fun comparison. Back in the day I owned pretty much every version of RE: except the PC and N64 version, but I did play it on N64. It's safe to say that RE:2 may be my favorite PS1 game ever and one of my all time favorites. It was a great nostalgia trip seeing this video. Thank you Dark1x!