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OldBenKenobi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,702
People were surprised when the opposite turned out to be true and PS5 performed similarly or better across the majority of games tested.

Apparently the results in THIS specific game will dictate how thing will turn out in the future and we should ignore all the evidence suggesting otherwise.

Mental gymnastics will be sight to behold this gen.

None has "superior" or "inferior" console
except xss
Differences are minor anyway and other games will show different results.


I think once more devs get more time with the XBX SDK(as already stated by a dev in this thread) then you will see more results with XSX coming out on top by small margins in the GPU/CPU dept.

But this was well known going into this gen when the specs were released so no one should be surprised by this.
 

Dultimate

Member
Oct 27, 2017
652
It's the first game where Xbox shows any sort of tangible advantage so after months of taking a beating all the Xbox tribesmen are finally able to stretch their wings
From reading the thread it seems the opposite. Its the first game Xbox shows any sort of tangible advantage so after months of giving a beating all the PS defensive team are rushing to defend the loss.

It's just one game. Any sort of broad proclamations are premature.
 
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Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,712
Who knew this is the game that would make the fanboys cry back and forth.

I mean are we really arguing between minor differences here ?

Both console versions look and play spectacular. This whole talking hypothetical "well if the devs did this, it could have been at a higher resolution or higher frame rate" is just stupid.

On paper, the Xsx is just a more powerful system overall then the ps5 but it's not like the ps5 is some Slouch. This was known going into this gen by just looking at hardware specs.

Given time, 90% of 3rd party release should have a GPU/CPU advantage because well, that's how the systems were built.

The ps5 will still be closely behind and sometimes, the amazing IO and ssd helping it achieve beyond what it's capable of.
It's like we are back in the PS2/Xbox era again. It's going to be a tiring generation hearing people bicker about this dumb shit for the next ~6-7 Years.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
I find it hard to believe people who care this much about the difference in resolution don't just play on PC. Then you can gloat over everyone and ignore these minor differences on locked, cheap platforms. Of course the XSX will perform better than a cheaper console, but the PC will perform better than any console.
XSX and PS5 are the same price. The PS5 Digital isn't directly comparable as it doesn't have a disc drive (although I do believe the PS5 Digital is probably the single best bang for your buck we've ever seen from a console).

And the PC will perform better than a console, but only if you're willing to pay at least twice the price. Value wise, the PC can't come anywhere close to either of these consoles.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
It's like we are back in the PS2/Xbox era again. It's going to be a tiring generation hearing people bicker about this dumb shit for the next ~6-7 Years.
This happened with the Xbox One / PS4 generation, too. And the Xbox 360 / PS3 generation. It happens every generation. This isn't new.
 

RR30

Member
Oct 22, 2018
2,275
This happened with the Xbox One / PS4 generation, too. And the Xbox 360 / PS3 generation. It happens every generation. This isn't new.

You're right, and it's even more pathetic now than it used to be. Both consoles are beasts. Arguing over a small difference (or even larger difference than expected in this case) is a waste.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
So the stats are finally as what most of unexpected. Why is the causing any issues?

XSX either runs 4K locked at 60fps

PS5 would have to eiher run at 4K and have FPS drops, or drop rez and lock to 60fps.

What we have ended up with is around a 27% drop in resolution (which I think is overkill on their part) and a locked 60fps on the PS5.

But I think the real takeaway here is that this is not what I would consider a modern engine. Its lack of DRS tech is sorely obvious here as all platforms would have benefitted from it. PS5/XSX could easily hover between 1800p/2160p and would both not ever have a single FPS drop. Contrary to what most in this thread think,I don't think we would be seeing a lot of games like this as most devs would go with DRS instead.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,174
People may be making jokes about the tools getting better here - but I have Heard that build performance has indeed increased over time since launch on XSX. GPU Compiler and Stuff can be pretty important for GPU Performance!

Yeah this is roughly the differences I expect going forward. Maybe the PS5 performing a little better. Looking at the console specs no one should find these results shocking.
 

arsene_P5

Prophet of Regret
Member
Apr 17, 2020
15,438
Shadow thing could be a bug as well. Just saying. We know too little even with df.
This could be a bug, but I think the Dirt 5 bug was way more obvious, because the shadow setting can also be simply optimization work. In case of Dirt 5 the car with the messed up LOD literally looked like a bad PS3/360 gen car. Therefore it was extremely obvious that this was a bug.

Having said that you mentioned other games like AC with bugs and I guess we'll know in due time whether the PS5 shadow setting is a bug or a necessary optimization.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,712
This happened with the Xbox One / PS4 generation, too. And the Xbox 360 / PS3 generation. It happens every generation. This isn't new.
Sure but I dunno it seems more...pronounced this time around? Last gen seemed not as bad for this. The absolute height of console war garbage being the PS2/Xbox era. IMO
 

Elog

Member
Oct 21, 2020
155
It is nice to see the XSX perform well but I would not base any technical evaluation of a GPU on the Glacier engine. Historically, it has performed rather poorly compared to other engines out there. Will be interesting to see the first title with one of the state of the art engines, e.g. ID tech, Frostbite, Unreal, on the new consoles (whenever one of those titles are released).
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,637
aD13zxn.jpg

Is this an outlie or are there other examples of this?
 

Hope

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,065
I for once hope for more choice. Dynamic 4k, 60fps. 1080p 120 fps. 4k ultra pc 30 fps. 3-4 presets like that. It's not pc Overkill but still nice tho. And comparison would be nice too.
 

Psychotron

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,683
1800P at locked 60fps is beautiful. Sure native 4K is the best, but if it needs to be lower to lock performance, I'll take it every time. This isn't like the difference between 1080 and 720 anymore. It isn't like games at 1800P look like Vaseline.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
Sure but I dunno it seems more...pronounced this time around? Last gen seemed not as bad for this. The absolute height of console war garbage being the PS2/Xbox era. IMO
Last gen was horrible. Especially at the start. The whole 900p Xbox One thing was rampant, with endless arguments/memes/etc.. Hell, people still regularly bring up that IGN video of all the guys saying "the human eye can't even see 1080p anyway!" or whatever, as well as that Xbox exec horribly stating that all HDTVs output 1080p so it doesn't matter.

It's always terrible. People just forget.
 

Dunlop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,499
Sure but I dunno it seems more...pronounced this time around? Last gen seemed not as bad for this. The absolute height of console war garbage being the PS2/Xbox era. IMO
Honestly, after the sh!tshow that came during the Xb1 and Ps4 launch from the other site, it's pretty tame now.

You will always have console warriors, a couple people are upset that this is more in line with expectations and not what was present for the first games on PS5/Xbox Series X

Spoiler:

Xbox will likely have a slight advantage with third party, depends on their baseline and how mature the tools get. We will only know of this advantage when Digital Foundry tells us as it will not be obvious to our eyes...

Sony first party will be Phenomenal and take advantage of the SSD
 

ekim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,409
Not the first title that has problems with alpha effects on the series hardware. Could this be a bug in the XDK? But if I remember correctly the Xbox One consoles also had issues with alpha effects. Really weird.
 

inspectah

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,188
Germany
I think once more devs get more time with the XBX SDK(as already stated by a dev in this thread) then you will see more results with XSX coming out on top by small margins in the GPU/CPU dept.

But this was well known going into this gen when the specs were released so no one should be surprised by this.
Can you link the post? Don´t want to browse 18 pages.
Thanks.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,413
I for once hope for more choice. Dynamic 4k, 60fps. 1080p 120 fps. 4k ultra pc 30 fps. 3-4 presets like that. It's not pc Overkill but still nice tho. And comparison would be nice too.

Hitman doesn't really need those options though I'd say. When it's already running at native 4K at (99% of all areas) locked 60fps with ultra textures there isn't a great need for '4K ultra 30fps'. It already does that at 60fps.

And IOI already have like seven SKUs to test or something.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,150
I for once hope for more choice. Dynamic 4k, 60fps. 1080p 120 fps. 4k ultra pc 30 fps. 3-4 presets like that. It's not pc Overkill but still nice tho. And comparison would be nice too.
I think that's basically impossible the game is already being optimized on XB1, XB1X, Series S, Series X, PS4, Pro, PSVR, PS5 and PC and apparently really good on everything (well at leat down to the mid gens, not sure about base last gens), IO aren't that big either I don't think, it's a tremendous effort all done during a pandemic.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,413
I think that's basically impossible the game is already being optimized on XB1, XB1X, Series S, Series X, PS4, Pro, PSVR, PS5 and PC and apparently really good on everything (well at leat down to the mid gens, not sure about base last gens), IO aren't that big either I don't think, it's a tremendous effort all done during a pandemic.

And Stadia and cloud streaming on Switch!

They've done a ridiculously good job.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Title of the video is a bit click-baity than their other comparison videos which didn't elude to a "winner" even when there were clear ones. Is this what we can expect from now on?
Hiding the results in the title would actually be the more click-baiting move ("You won't believe the winner").
 

GMT Master

Member
Oct 3, 2019
668
I really thought console wars would dial down after the consoles released.

I was so innocent...

I can't believe this shit has gone on for 18 pages. It does not warrant this level of discussion.

Anyway, it's nice to see the series X actually hit 4k at 60fps. I didn't have high hopes for either console to be honest. We had heard that the series X was going to be a bit more powerful than the PS5. So not sure why this is a surprise.

Seems like it will be the trend going forward as devs get more familiar with both machines.
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,936
Hiding the results in the title would actually be the more click-baiting move ("You won't believe the winner").
The new trend for click bait gaming videos is to hyperbolize. "PS5 Destroys Xbox with unbelievable news". Obviously DF is not going that far, but every comparison video up to now has been completely neutral with its title as far as I can remember. It's more of a baby step towards than full on click-bait. I just am noticing the change of course:

  • Dirt 5: PS5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S Comparison + Performance - Every Game Mode Tested!
  • COD Black Ops Cold War: PS5 vs Xbox Series X - Ray Tracing, 120Hz Mode Tests + Series S Analysis!
  • Watch Dogs Legion: PlayStation 5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S - Graphics, Performance, Ray Tracing!
  • Assassin's Creed Valhalla: PS5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S Next-Gen Comparison!
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,431

So I noticed that when I re-watched that part on my full-size TV, and I was surprised it didn't get a mention in the video. Since all that lavender seems to be casting full-detail shadows on the ground, plus the alpha density, it makes sense why that area is something of a performance fluke. A closer/further shadow detail fall-off would compound all that pretty quickly.

Edit: To help anyone else on mobile, here's a closeup of the background shadow detail difference:
D3kc1GT.gif
 
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digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
The new trend for click bait gaming videos is to hyperbolize. "PS5 Destroys Xbox with unbelievable news". Obviously DF is not going that far, but every comparison video up to now has been completely neutral with its title as far as I can remember. It's more of a baby step towards than full on click-bait. I just am noticing the change of course:

  • Dirt 5: PS5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S Comparison + Performance - Every Game Mode Tested!
  • COD Black Ops Cold War: PS5 vs Xbox Series X - Ray Tracing, 120Hz Mode Tests + Series S Analysis!
  • Watch Dogs Legion: PlayStation 5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S - Graphics, Performance, Ray Tracing!
  • Assassin's Creed Valhalla: PS5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S Next-Gen Comparison!
The title isn't clickbaity at all. It says, "An Xbox Advantage in 4K". And then watching the video shows... An Xbox advantage in 4K. They even say during the video that that Xbox is preferable in this game but that all platforms are great.

The title literally sums up their thoughts contained in the video, which is exactly what a title is supposed to do.
 

Golding

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,816
The new trend for click bait gaming videos is to hyperbolize. "PS5 Destroys Xbox with unbelievable news". Obviously DF is not going that far, but every comparison video up to now has been completely neutral with its title as far as I can remember. It's more of a baby step towards than full on click-bait. I just am noticing the change of course:

  • Dirt 5: PS5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S Comparison + Performance - Every Game Mode Tested!
  • COD Black Ops Cold War: PS5 vs Xbox Series X - Ray Tracing, 120Hz Mode Tests + Series S Analysis!
  • Watch Dogs Legion: PlayStation 5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S - Graphics, Performance, Ray Tracing!
  • Assassin's Creed Valhalla: PS5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S Next-Gen Comparison!
how? the video proves their title.
did you watch the video?
 
Jul 28, 2020
672
I for once hope for more choice. Dynamic 4k, 60fps. 1080p 120 fps. 4k ultra pc 30 fps. 3-4 presets like that. It's not pc Overkill but still nice tho. And comparison would be nice too.

Eh, I hope for less choice. I'd rather developers had the balls to say "this is how our game plays best" rather than "We put a mode in so it looks good in press shots, but now you have to lower the image quality to get a decent framerate. Sorry! Lol!"
 

Kingpin722

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,028
Took a break from this forum a little while during the holidays, and it was like console wars didnt exist lol.
 

btags

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,098
Gaithersburg MD
I love this engine and am glad to see io doing such impressive work across all platforms and especially impressive considering pandemic conditions. Also, good work from df on the analysis.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,637
The new trend for click bait gaming videos is to hyperbolize. "PS5 Destroys Xbox with unbelievable news". Obviously DF is not going that far, but every comparison video up to now has been completely neutral with its title as far as I can remember. It's more of a baby step towards than full on click-bait. I just am noticing the change of course:

Seems like a stretch.

It's not an example of the hyperbole you're talking about and it's not click-bait... it's literally the exact opposite of click-bait and hyperbole. If it's a baby step, it's obviously in the opposite direction you're inferring.
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,936
The title isn't clickbaity at all. It says, "An Xbox Advantage in 4K". And then watching the video shows... An Xbox advantage in 4K. They even say during the video that that Xbox is preferable in this game but that all platforms are great.

The title literally sums up their thoughts contained in the video, which is exactly what a title is supposed to do.
how? the video proves their title.
did you watch the video?
I watched the video the moment it went up.

I'm not saying the title is misleading. I'm saying that it breaks from their established norm of their comparison videos titling. The way it breaks from the norm, to me , is in the direction of generating more clicks with some light console war baiting.

Take a look at the Dirt 5 or Assassin's Creed comparisons. I would say they are as, or more, one sided in noticeable advantage for one console than Hitman 3 is. Watch Dogs is also better on Series X, etc. but the titles are more "come see our analysis".

This isn't a huge deal, more me just saying "huh, that's interesting".
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,951
Damn, that looks good. Might have to get me a Series X for multiplats.
Wait a few months until the Series X running better is a consistent result. It should eventually be, the machine is actually more powerful, but it could just be engine quirks making it run better on GPUs with higher CU counts or whatever and this is an exception right now.