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Digital Foundry: Marvel's Spider-Man - The 60fps Dream - Plus What To Expect from PS5 Spider-Man: Miles Morales!

chandoog

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,074


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Marvel's Spider-Man is one of the best games available for PlayStation 4... it renders at 30fps, but what if it hit 60fps instead? You can see that right here in this video! Could this be the 'path not taken' in the developmental evolution of the series as it transitions to PS5 - and just where is the new GPU's rendering power used if not in increasing frame-rate?

Rich shows off some experimental 60fps rendering and discusses various 60fps up-conversion and pixel reprojection techniques. Really though - Spider-Man at 60fps... doesn't it look great?

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Greent4

Greent4

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,273
Charlotte, NC
It would be awesome to see Spiderman and bloodborne at 60fps on Ps5.
Hell I wanna see Sony make 60fps the standard moving forward!
 
vestan

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
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Dec 28, 2017
24,640
this video is great, i want 60fps spidey so bad

insomniac did a good job of making the game feel smooth tho even at 30 so props
 
JigglesBunny

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,146
Chicago
Insomniac loves pushing visuals and locking things to 30 FPS to get there. My expectations aren't exactly high in this regard.
 
Greent4

Greent4

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,273
Charlotte, NC
chandoog said:
Written article:

www.eurogamer.net

Next-gen consoles: why we'll still be playing games at 30fps

There was one key takeaway from the recent PlayStation 5 games reveal, beyond how good the key titles looked - and that…
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net
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Sony kicked off its PS5 reveal with a short teaser for Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales - and the evidence suggests that developer Insomniac is sticking with the 30fps performance of the original game, even though the horsepower exists to double frame-rate to 60fps.
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I hope they don't stick to 30fps cmon insomniac
 
LebGuns

LebGuns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,127
I hope developers make 1080p/1440p 60FPS modes for games standard. Make your 1800p 4K RT modes, but also provide us the 60fps mode to choose from as well.
 
RestEerie

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
The more i am watching this, the more i am frustrated that devs are still targeting the bare minimum framerate of 30fps......

Looking at this and sony studios games slate, 60fps dream is still dead.....

And sony studios dev here can clarify why they put performance on such low priority in their games?

And horizon zd pc is gonna be 60fps while if i put in horizon zd ps4 into ps5, it's still 30fps and horizon 2 is also seemingly 30fps too??

Is that really what you want your 1st party games to run on the ps5?
 
Tyaren

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
24,800
Unpopular opinion:
Keep the game at locked 30fps and as smooth as it already felt in the first game and push visuals and resolution instead. :)
 
Lelouch0612

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,200
RestEerie said:
The more i am watching this, the more i am frustrated that devs are still targeting the bare minimum framerate of 30fps......

Looking at this and sony studios games slate, 60fps dream is still dead.....

And sony studios dev here can clarify why they put performance on such low priority in their games?
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Because resolution is more marketable
 
Mafro

Mafro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,365
Definitely won't be surprised to see most of the first party Sony studios stick to 30fps. They've always been about pushing graphical fidelity.
 

Deleted member 62078

User requested account closure
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Dec 12, 2019
160
I think it looks much more cinematic at 30fps, which really works for this sort of game. There are plenty of games where I'd love 60, but for the more movie-esque games (Uncharted, Spider-man, Halo, whatever else), I would much prefer to play at 30fps. 60fps gives me that soap opera effect feeling you see some TVs have on by default these days - and it makes films look absolutely terrible.
 
Fezan

Fezan

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,274
Tyaren said:
Unpopular opinion:
Keep the game at locked 30fps and as smooth as it already felt in the first game and push visuals and resolution instead. :)
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It's not unpopular at all. A proper framepaced 30 FPS games is much better than variable 60.

This video was bunch of nothing
 
tzare

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
I wish they give options, that's always good, but the game played wonderfully at 30fps so keep pushing visuals as long 30pfs feels as good
 
Pancracio17

Pancracio17

â–˛ Legend â–˛
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Oct 29, 2017
18,800
Man I hope developers work on adding 60fps modes to their games. Id rather not have RT puddles if it means the game runs at 30.
 
hikarutilmitt

hikarutilmitt

Member
Dec 16, 2017
11,429
I only ever really want stability. I prefer 60, but if they do 30 keep it freaking STABLE. If they do 60, keep it stable! If you can't do a stable 60, do a stable 30. Fluctuating framerates hurt in so many ways.
 

TinTuba47

Member
Nov 14, 2017
3,810
30fps made Spider-Man unplayable for me.

There are plenty of PS4 games that run at 30fps that I've been able to get into (TLOU2, Bloodborne) but something about Spider-Man, the 30fps was a real problem for me. Maybe it's because of the constant fast movement, swinging through the city etc.

To this day I haven't been able to play more than two hours.I've tried multiple times.
 
AngelOFDeath

AngelOFDeath

Member
Nov 13, 2017
2,374
Heh, I think Insomniac's 30fps in their game is the best in the business. I don't feel like its janky like I see in other games. Motion blur?
 
MrKlaw

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,071
Interesting. The idea of framerate interpolation using similar data that is already used for temporal AA/resolution upscaling sounds potentially a good one.

I wonder what would be more efficient or better quality

- take a lower resolution render target at 60fps and use reconstruction to make it 4k
- take a higher resolution render target at 30fps and use reconstruction to make it 60fps
- take a medium resolution render target at 30fps and use reconstruction to upscale both resolution *and* framerate
 

martincrimson87

Banned
Dec 15, 2017
1,590
Once the inevitable PC port is released down the line, the by then entry level CPUs should have no problem hitting 60 FPS.
 
Ocean

Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,692
I'm saving this and a bunch of other current gen titles until I can play them at 60. Can't wait!
 
Pipyakas

Pipyakas

Member
Jul 20, 2018
549
When you realize that just putting in 2 different framerate target mode in the final game would solve everything
This is why people play games on PC, you have the choice, you're in control (well most of the time anyway)
 
HStallion

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
RestEerie said:
The more i am watching this, the more i am frustrated that devs are still targeting the bare minimum framerate of 30fps......

Looking at this and sony studios games slate, 60fps dream is still dead.....

And sony studios dev here can clarify why they put performance on such low priority in their games?

And horizon zd pc is gonna be 60fps while if i put in horizon zd ps4 into ps5, it's still 30fps and horizon 2 is also seemingly 30fps too??

Is that really what you want your 1st party games to run on the ps5?
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General audiences don't give a shit about frame rate. Simple as that.
 
Temtastic Muns

Temtastic Muns

Member
Apr 19, 2018
6,834
60fps Spidey looks absolutely lovely.

I would gladly stick with current gen levels of graphics and lower resolution if it meant a larger gamut of 60fps titles next-gen.
 
AegonSnake

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
Stick with 30 fps and push ray tracing, world detail, A.I simulation, destruction and other simulations to the max.

Keep 60 fps for the mid gen refresh or a PC port if Sony decides to start publishing more exclusives to PC this gen than they did last gen.
 
zombiejames

zombiejames

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Oct 25, 2017
11,934
The 30fps of today is not like the 30fps of past generations. Most developers today actually hit 30fps consistently and throw on some excellent motion blur so the experience itself is smooth and playable. A full 60fps would still be ideal but we're not in slideshow territory with most 30fps releases anymore.
 
Tedmilk

Tedmilk

Avenger
Nov 13, 2017
1,917
With the large bump in CPU power next gen, I'd love for a 30/60 option to become standard on console games. We wouldn't need to moan anymore!
 

TinTuba47

Member
Nov 14, 2017
3,810
HStallion said:
General audiences don't give a shit about frame rate. Simple as that.
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I don't know about that, honestly. A lot of the most mega-popular games run at 60- Fortnite, Minecraft, COD. General audiences may not even know what 60fps is, but I don't think that the fact that these games run smooth is incidental to their success
 
nelsonroyale

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,130
This game was super smooth on PS4...I would prefer if they push visuals even if that means the next game stays at 30 fps. Obviously I would prefer vastly better visuals and 60 fps though.

This video also reminds me that Spider-man is easily one of the best looking games this gen. It is right up there with Horizon and RDR2 in the best looking open world stakes. The cutscenes in particular are fantastic, as are the transitions to gameplay.
 
Jtrizzy

Jtrizzy

Member
Nov 13, 2017
621
I'll just hope for a PC port, or wait for the PS6 version. Hopefully they release more of their exclusives going forward on PC, and release an upgraded version God of War and others on PS5 if not. Definitely buying Death Stranding and Horizon, partly just to support the cause!

There is a part of me that wants them to pump up the visuals at 30 for PS5, but that assumes there is a pc port that I can brute force to 60+ fps. The idea of a performance mode with RT and other effects turned off isn't super appealing either, though.
 
HStallion

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
TinTuba47 said:
I don't know about that, honestly. A lot of the most mega-popular games run at 60- Fortnite, Minecraft, COD. General audiences may not even know what 60fps is, but I don't think that the fact that these games run smooth is incidental to their success
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The games could run at 30 fps and no one but the hardcore players, who are an extreme minority, would care.
 
TheRulingRing

TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
I can't lie 60 fps doesn't really make the game look much better.

I'm generally a proponent of 60 fps, but as much as I've laughed at people for saying this in the past, the motion blur from their 30 fps footage really does add to the filmic look.

In God of War even the unstable 60 fps mode on Pro made the game look much better than at 30 fps, but here I think Insomniac did a fantastic job at making the 30 fps look good.

It probably feels better in gameplay, but yeah in this particular case my vote goes to "focus on the graphics".
 
Dead Man Typing

Dead Man Typing

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,860
Hopefully they have an unlock option for people with Variable Refresh screens.
Then when playing it on PS6 backwards compatibility we can hit 60fps+.

It takes very disciplined developers to hit 60fps consistently.
I love performance modes but most of them don't get anywhere near a consistent 60fps.
Shadow of the Colossus PS4 did, but that is not generally what we've seen with games that give you the choice.

Great video. I normally don't like interpolated 60fps videos of 30fps but I think the discussion points that Richard raises are interesting and modern video conversion techniques have fewer artefacts than in the past.
I love that he brought up the Force Unleashed 2 tech demo as it's something I've wondered about for a long time. The drawbacks must still be too much to make it worth it but maybe next gen hardware will change that.
 
Nooblet

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,637
RestEerie said:
The more i am watching this, the more i am frustrated that devs are still targeting the bare minimum framerate of 30fps......

Looking at this and sony studios games slate, 60fps dream is still dead.....

And sony studios dev here can clarify why they put performance on such low priority in their games?

And horizon zd pc is gonna be 60fps while if i put in horizon zd ps4 into ps5, it's still 30fps and horizon 2 is also seemingly 30fps too??

Is that really what you want your 1st party games to run on the ps5?
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Not prioritising 60FPS is not the same as not prioritising performance.
They put extremely high priority on performance, which is why their games are some of the most stable 30FPS games out there with consistent framepacing.

And if you want an answer to why they prioritise 30FPS over 60FPS, you need only to look at how people go crazy over visuals in Sony first party games and tout it to hyperbolic levels even in this forum.
 
Nooblet

Nooblet

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Oct 25, 2017
13,637
HStallion said:
The games could run at 30 fps and no one but the hardcore players, who are an extreme minority, would care.
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That's not true.
The success of COD is very much down to how it "feels", and that's entirely down to the framerate. It's why even Battlefield pushed for 60 this gen despite DICE historically prioritising visuals over framerate. If it was a thing they can ignore you wouldn't have so many games in the most played list be 60FPS games.

There is a direct correlation between framerate and majority of the most played games of today being 60FPS, and not recognising that is just wrong.
 
MrKlaw

MrKlaw

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Oct 25, 2017
33,071
framerate interpolation with faster controller polling - think VR and how it uses timewarp/spacewarp. Could be good
 
Sems4arsenal

Sems4arsenal

Member
Apr 7, 2019
3,627
Nooblet said:
That's not true.
The success of COD is very much down to how it "feels", and that's entirely down to the framerate. It's why even Battlefield pushed for 60 this gen despite DICE historically prioritising visuals over framerate. If it was a thing they can ignore you wouldn't have so many games in the most played list be 60FPS games.

There is a direct correlation between framerate and majority of the most played games of today being 60FPS, and not recognising that is just wrong.
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Some genres "need" 60 fps.
 
Saint of Killers

Saint of Killers

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Oct 27, 2017
2,533
The small snippet we get of ground-level web-swinging does suggest that New York City is a significantly denser place to be than it was on PlayStation 4. Vehicle count looks higher while the amount of NPCs frequenting the streets also looks more robust than the existing game - and in both cases, the draw distance looks a lot, lot better than anything we've seen in the existing Spider-Man PS4 game. The trailer also shows that we're in the depths of winter, with snow and ice a key component of the visual make-up. It's transformative compared to the New York we saw in the first game where the closest we got to adverse weather was a pretty basic rain effect.

I'll happily take all that if the game plays as smoothly as it did on PS4.
 
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