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UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
For one, they're not giving half of anything up.

For the other, the thing about making money on a shitty script, if things continue to be shitty, you usually get diminishing returns.

The writer is the one that writes the script though, I get the feeling while what Fiege does in positive sure, he doesn't write these scripts himself and that is the crux of any motion picture.

ASM and ASM2 are low bars for Sony to beat for quality especially if they use the same writers from the last two Spidey pictures.

Sure you need to have a good script. That isn't worth gifting Disney a large chunk of your profits over though especially when you can just hire the same writers.
 
Aug 12, 2019
5,159
I mean, I guess I understand Disney not liking the prospect of not making money off the Spiderman solo films, but keeping him in the MCU seems more important in the long-run since they can just keep making boat loads of cash off of any crossover/Avengers/Civil War style films with him in it. Or hell, just compromise in ways where it doesn't cost Disney anything to have the movies, but Sony gets the profits (this might honestly be the deal right now, I just haven't read up on it enough).

Honestly, not a fan of how Disney seems to be handling the post Far From Home MCU the more I think about it. Going all in on Disney+ TV series is a big part of that and I think they might not realize just how easily they could start messing things up at this point. Like, yeah some of the new casting decisions such as Blade and bringing Portman back to do female Thor is great... but yeah...
 

Hope

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,065
Why do ppl think the MCU is that good again? I mean they ain't bad or anything but most movies feel exactly the same. They are the equivalent of the yearly assassin's creed games.

Sony can go without Disney no problem.
 

jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
6,548
So everything was going good. Disney decides to change the status quo, but people are angry at Sony?
 

Deleted member 17402

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,125
This shit has all been so funny, even if I hate the idea of Holland and Spider-Man making a sudden exit from the MCU.

Then it got me thinking. Imagine the rights to Star Wars were also sold piecemeal where, say, Comcast got the rights to standalone Darth Vader films. They come to an agreement with Disney, Vader gets solo movies, we know he's Luke's father, then bam, a business decision prevents the companies from agreeing to make any more movies together and now suddenly Vader has to be written out. LOL
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
Just to be clear on how the deal worked, the 5% split was not part of the MCU deal. In fact when Marvel sold the rights to Spider Man to Sony in 1999, the contract stipulated 5% of proceeds to Marvel and split merchandising between Sony and Marvel. This meant that Marvel was getting 5% without doing anything.

In 2011 Sony sold its merchandising rights to Marvel for $175m and $35m for any Spider Man film after as well as Disney giving up their 5% of movie proceeds. This meant Marvel was getting all the profit from merchandise for $175 + $35m per film for doing nothing related to the films.

In 2015 Marvel and Sony came to an agreement to allow Marvel creative control over making Spider Man movies with Sony financing, the only financial change to the past deals is that if the movie grossed more than $750m that Marvel would owe less than the $35m typically owed for a movie due to the merchandising deal. This meant that Marvel was now producing and running the show creatively, but were not gaining anything more than if they had not made the deal except for potentially a $35m discount (not sure on full details of the discount). With this arrangement, Marvel was basically giving Sony free money from their MCU involvement.

Looking at the above, Marvel/Disney didn't work on the last two Spider Man movies out of the goodness of their heart. If the movies do well, the merchandise will do well and make Disney money, but merchandise can only make so much and is indirect. Marvel could have sat back and continued to make profits off of the merchandise without spending their production time on making movies that Sony claimed all profits from.

Can you tell me that if you came in and helped prop up something to do better than it had ever done before that you'd want to renegotiate for a better deal? Is 50/50 fair? I really don't know, but Sony didn't counter offer and unless something changes Spider Man no longer has the MCU tie ins and creative leads to help it do better.
Disney asking for more is totally fair. Even if people disagree with their demands, Sony was the ones who walked away with the franchise without counter offering. It's not like Disney can give an ultimatum of terms before refusing to continue to work on Spider-Man films for free since there is no leverage there. The deal has always favored Sony.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,457
The writer is the one that writes the script though, I get the feeling while what Fiege does in positive sure, he doesn't write these scripts himself and that is the crux of any motion picture.

ASM and ASM2 are low bars for Sony to beat for quality especially if they use the same writers from the last two Spidey pictures.

Sure you need to have a good script. That isn't worth gifting Disney a large chunk of your profits over though especially when you can just hire the same writers.

"Just hire the same writers."

Movie making is infinitely more complex than that.

And for the last time, "50 percent of the profits" isn't what cofinancing means.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,048
Why do ppl think the MCU is that good again? I mean they ain't bad or anything

There are 23 films released in the MCU over an 11 year span with an *AVERAGE* box office gross of a Billion dollars each.

it is by far the most profitable film franchise of all time, with no sign of slowing down. The back to back success of that franchise is absolutely staggering. Nothing else has ever come close to it, and it's highly unlikely anything ever will.

I remember on the old site (back around the time AoU was about to release) I said that the MCU would eventually be looked at much like the run disney had with the pixar films and got trolled to shit for it. All those people got real quiet a few years later.
 

Maximus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,586
LOL $4 billion for Star Wars and Marvel each. $5 billion for Spider-Man alone.

Anyway, after buying 20th Century Fox, Disney is closing the wallet for a while.

It would be nice if Disney was able to buy the IP back. I wonder if it will leverage some unwanted properties from Fox in a trade of assets and maybe some money. Probably won't happen, especially with the success of Venom and Far From Home.
 

lupinko

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,154
Disney asking for more is totally fair. Even if people disagree with their demands, Sony was the ones who walked away with the franchise without counter offering. It's not like Disney can give an ultimatum of terms before refusing to continue to work on Spider-Man films for free since there is no leverage there. The deal has always favored Sony.

Sony brought up concessions to the negotiations, Disney just flat out refused, it says in the various links.

Anyway they're still working this out. Lol
 

SArcher

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,669
I mean, I guess I understand Disney not liking the prospect of not making money off the Spiderman solo films, but keeping him in the MCU seems more important in the long-run since they can just keep making boat loads of cash off of any crossover/Avengers/Civil War style films with him in it. Or hell, just compromise in ways where it doesn't cost Disney anything to have the movies, but Sony gets the profits (this might honestly be the deal right now, I just haven't read up on it enough).

Honestly, not a fan of how Disney seems to be handling the post Far From Home MCU the more I think about it. Going all in on Disney+ TV series is a big part of that and I think they might not realize just how easily they could start messing things up at this point. Like, yeah some of the new casting decisions such as Blade and bringing Portman back to do female Thor is great... but yeah...

What's bad about the Disney+ series? This way characters who wouldn't get solo films (Sam, Bucky, Hawkeye, Wanda, Vision Loki) have a chance to shine in the spotlight.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
Considering it's by far the best Spider-Man movie and one of the best in general last year, I can't imagine why a sequel with the same team behind it wouldn't be personally.


Yeah, I am generally more in the "are sequels necesary?" camp, but Spider-verse was labor of love, I would LOVE to see them try and one up themselves with a sequel.
 

DustyVonErich

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,870
Weird to blame it on Disney. This seems like Sony wanted to keep getting more of the cake and Disney weren't taking their crap.

Completely understandable, good luck sony and spiderman lmao.
What a horrible take.

Disney's already getting all the merch, and had an existing deal. But Sony's supposed to bend over and get half taken too? When Sony's Venom made over $800 million without MCU and Spider-verse made almost $400 mil?

Shit, if they wanted a higher cut, Disney could have asked for something more reasonable that also made sense for Sony financially as well.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,819
So everything was going good. Disney decides to change the status quo, but people are angry at Sony?

The statues quo was over regardless. The original deal was for Spider-Man: Homecoming, its sequel, Civil War, and the two Avengers. The upcoming MCU slate doesn't have any Avengers movies or films that would make sense for Spidey to cross over in. It made sense for Disney to renegotiate the deal if they didn't think Spidey was going to guess star in any phase 4 films.
 

MadLaughter

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,101
Considering that Disney's creatives and Disney's cinematic universe are largely responsibly for these films' success, I don't blame them for asking for a cut.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,091
I bet they continue to not comment on this and then just announce a third Spider-Man movie after a deal has been made and pretend like there were no issues behind the scenes.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
Considering that Disney's creatives and Disney's cinematic universe are largely responsibly for these films' success, I don't blame them for asking for a cut.
And can you blame Sony for not wanting to get less money and give up rights for their most successful movie franchise to Disney? They just did Venom and Spiderverse themselves and both did well.
 

jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
6,548
How would this topic have gone if it was actually Sony lowballing a new deal and Disney walking away without negotiating?

Probably even more fuck Sony!
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,933
Nope. Sony owns those movies lock, stock, and barrel.

Disney asking for 50% is such a bizarre move there's no wonder Sony just walked out of the room. They have no leverage other than social media outrage to get Sony back to the table.

They play hardball and keep it up, There's nothing stopping Sony from calling up Warner Brothers and doing "Spiderman vs. Batman, dawn of a trillion dollar box office."
lol, sure. And then you can probably look forward to Marvel's Spider-Man 2 from Xbox Game Studios.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,989
Inland Empire
When contacted by io9, a Sony representative said it's their belief this dispute is simply over a producer credit and negotiations are ongoing. They further clarified that Feige has contributed to other Spider-centric movies that he did not receive a producer credit on. Other sources tell us the Deadline story is completely accurate.

Hmm is that Avi Arad and Matt Tomlach trying to snake their way back in?
They're the ones who pushed to make Venom and are handling Sony's Live action films.
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,632
So I guess this means all those characters who Marvel created for the MCU can't be used anymore.

(From what I heard, they are now "frozen" unable to be used by either Marvel or Sony)

Yes that is the rumor. And most likely true.

Also, unless the contract was permanently changed in 2015, no more Peter Porker from SPA or Sony.

Sony just sell the rights.

You still have 007...

And Jumanji!

Sony does not have 007.

One way Disney could sweeten the deal if they are serious about a 50-50 co-finance is to offer Sony a cut of the merchandise.

HAHAHAHA.

Disney is not offering that. Merchandise is where the real money is and Sony execs are still regretting selling the 25% they owned.
 

dodo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,997
wouldn't spider-man be public domain by now if it weren't for disney fighting for the copyright term extension act. lol
 
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