Vergil's campaign isn't as interesting as Dante's in DmC, but his levels are quite short and much more combat heavy, which is okay for me since his mechanics are so satisfying to use.
DmC was more fun than DMC5
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Are we 100% on that though? I know it was planned to be a main pillar. But I recall even Capcom themselves said there would be more regular DMC.
The move always struck me as them
1. Leveraging Western Devs to make something when their devs couldn't
2. Allowing Itsuno to make DD instead of worrying about more DMC.
This whole conversation always falls back on Dragon's Dogma and how Itsuno is still the only person that can apparently direct a DMC game.
DMC5 is a great game but DmC is extremely underrated as well. It was extremely fun to play and the I loved the music. As for its aesthetic, sure it wasn't always great but lets not pretend DMC5 is a lot better or that it has imaginative level design.
I prefer DmC's Dante over the original and over Nero.
That's why I'm not interested in DMC5 despite playing all of the previous games.
That's why I'm not interested in DMC5 despite playing all of the previous games.
I'm going to have to disagree. I enjoy Dark Souls 2 more than DS1 or 3 though, so who am I to judge.
This is true too. The game gets an excessive amount of hate with little justification.
Nero is almost exactly like DmC's Dante. I'm confused.
Yes. It was labeled as a reboot from the start, and you don't reboot unless you plan to start afresh. The way they spoke of DmC was always in the context of it being a replacement. Itsuno has outright commented that had DmC sold better it would have replaced the original series. There was never an assurance made by Capcom that DmC was merely temporary. Anything else is purely speculative.
Bad marketing and PR will do that.
Yeah, that's not quite true. Clearly some people had a problem with DmC solely because it wasn't what they expected, unless you're arguing that it was Capcom's and NT's fault they received death threats over the game. Which they did.
Devs receive death threats for changing the balance of a sniper rifle in a competitive shooter.
Not saying it makes it ok, but unfortunately it's nothing out of the ordinary in this industry.
Which speaks much, much more about the irrational behavior of some self-proclaimed fans (who were ready to hate it no matter what) than about any sort of skill in promoting a game.
You have my axe, OP.
DmC was better - 80s neon vibes, beatiful levels, simple combat, not focused on "supa kewl ccccombo SSS", characters that went full refuge in audacity, embracing that they were in a trashy punk game. It knows what it wants to be.
Couldn't play through DMC5 past the first big boss, shit was just boring. From characters acting like they were in a bad anime, to bland levels with samey enemies.
DmC was better - 80s neon vibes, beatiful levels, simple combat, not focused on "supa kewl ccccombo SSS", characters that went full refuge in audacity, embracing that they were in a trashy punk game. It knows what it wants to be.
Couldn't play through DMC5 past the first big boss, shit was just boring. From characters acting like they were in a bad anime, to bland levels with samey enemies.
I don't think so, I believe it unfortunately speaks about the irrational behavior of gamers in general, and shows no correlation to the general reception of less unreasonable people, which could be much more influenced by the marketing.
DMC5 is a better game in every way. Even level design. The way the game funnels you through one combat arena to another is paced in a better way than it was in DmC. DMC5 is a lean, mean, action machine. When combat design is this strong, you don't need any extraneous shit to distract you with. You're always itching for the next battle.
And the story in DMC5, while not great on the whole, it is filled with great character moments, especially for long-time fans of the franchise. What great character moments are there in DmC? Oh that's right. None. The writing in that game is total garbo from top to bottom. The cinematic direction and editing is the dullest shit with not even a spark of style or creativity.
I enjoyed DmC back in 2013, played it multiple times even. But I can't go back to that anymore. And no matter how many mindless "platforming" sections it has, that shit isn't going to make it any more fun than it was.
Anyone that insinuates DmC has good bosses is a crazy person, honestly. Nevermind in comparison to other DMC games.
But it is. It's a DMC game to the core. Just a simplified one.
And the story in DMC5, while not great on the whole, it is filled with great character moments, especially for long-time fans of the franchise. What great character moments are there in DmC? Oh that's right. None. The writing in that game is total garbo from top to bottom. The cinematic direction and editing is the dullest shit with not even a spark of style or creativity.
I enjoyed DmC back in 2013, played it multiple times even. But I can't go back to that anymore. And no matter how many mindless "platforming" sections it has, that shit isn't going to make it any more fun than it was.
Anyone that insinuates DmC has good bosses is a crazy person, honestly. Nevermind in comparison to other DMC games.
But it is. It's a DMC game to the core. Just a simplified one.
You mean you couldn't get through the tutorial stage?
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I have to disagree, death threats shouldn't be treated as something that "comes with the territory" in regards to gaming, nor should whoever was threatened be blamed for the threats in the first place for whatever reason.
The boring levels alone should tip you off about that not being right, but I do recognize some people really just want these games to be a series of plain environments connected by plain corridors, in which case DMC4 and 5 can certainly be considered the best in the series. My opinion is always in regards to how the whole of these games is an experience, and DmC still remains the best experience from what I have played of DMC5.
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I can see why someone would think that, but hard disagree. The combat in DMC5 is so much better than DmC that the thought doesn't even enter my mind. You said in the OP, you don't think that an action game should be carried by it's combat, but in my mind, that is the single truly important factor when comparing games in the genre.
But they're not? This is a complete false equivalence, no one did that, you're the one trying to associate the criticism of the game's marketing cycle when it comes to the prerelease reception to extreme actions like death threats. I'm only saying that, unfortunately, gamers send death threats for the most frivolous reasons you could possibly think of, like a balance patch.
It's completely disingenuous to try to spin it as "oh, so you're blaming Ninja Theory for the death threats?"
If we can't criticize devs and publishers for their actions unless we're also blaming them for death threats, in this industry that means never criticizing anything ever again, because, again, gamers are morons and send death threats for any reason.
I adore DMCV but its pacing issues are definitely something that hold it back and make me hesitate on saying it's better than DMC3. I still think DMC3 is the best "experience"/campaign because of how well paced out and executed it is. It all just comes together so well with *very* few lulls in terms of moments that drag, if any. Whereas with DMCV, while having nearly a boss fight every stage, there are times where it just being an enemy-room gauntlet rather than built around set pieces or "unique" moments combined with hopping between multiple characters causes the pacing to feel wonk and sometimes to drag more than it should for such a high octane action game. That being said, the pacing is still *good*, it's just not near perfect like I would say DMC3 is. That being said, I think DMCV as an action game still transcends DMC3 by taking DMC4's nearly flawless combat system and putting it in a better package that DMC4 lacked. But it's such a close tie in my eyes that I don't think I'll ever truly decide which is the "better" game.
I think anything can be criticized, but the narrative that it was solely the fault of their PR that DmC was hated upon is false, which was what I was replying to in the first place. Some fans were entirely against DmC and the death threats are just the more obvious record of that.
Entirely recommend getting the Definitive Edition, it's a shame it's not on PC though.
So this is what an objectively wrong opinion looks like
Or it's bait.
Either way, well done, OP.
Or it's bait.
Either way, well done, OP.
I can't think of a single thing that DmC did better than DMC5.
The combat especially, even in the Definitive Edition was pretty shallow. DmC tried to make up for this by adding a bunch of repetitive and just as shallow,inconsequential platforming. The level design, while serviceable wasn't anything to write home about. I think when people say that they think that DMC5 has worse level design, they only mean it in a aesthetic sense, because the level design in DMC5 is pretty top notch and serves the combat. Which is the most important part in a DMC game. I didn't mind the story in DMC5, it's too fanservicey for my tastes but i would take it any day over the mindless garbage that DmC tried to shove down my throat.
I think DmC was a pretty mediocre game. Only people that love it seem to be the type of people who weren't really that into the series or other character action games. Which i guess is fine, as that's the exact type of audience that DmC was made for but it's a much shallower and boring game than 90% of other games in this genre and it sticks out like a sour thumb in this series.
The combat especially, even in the Definitive Edition was pretty shallow. DmC tried to make up for this by adding a bunch of repetitive and just as shallow,inconsequential platforming. The level design, while serviceable wasn't anything to write home about. I think when people say that they think that DMC5 has worse level design, they only mean it in a aesthetic sense, because the level design in DMC5 is pretty top notch and serves the combat. Which is the most important part in a DMC game. I didn't mind the story in DMC5, it's too fanservicey for my tastes but i would take it any day over the mindless garbage that DmC tried to shove down my throat.
I think DmC was a pretty mediocre game. Only people that love it seem to be the type of people who weren't really that into the series or other character action games. Which i guess is fine, as that's the exact type of audience that DmC was made for but it's a much shallower and boring game than 90% of other games in this genre and it sticks out like a sour thumb in this series.
The only thing DmC does better than DMC5 is platforming, and I say this as someone who kind of found DMC5 a bit of a let down after letting it brew.
On a combat front, it's not even comparable. DMC5 makes the competition look like pushovers. Possibly the only game that matches it for me is Bayonetta 1.
On a combat front, it's not even comparable. DMC5 makes the competition look like pushovers. Possibly the only game that matches it for me is Bayonetta 1.
Nah, dropped it after the big demon in a church and a cutscene with V in their car.
I dunno, I dont think DmC is all that great, DMC V is leagues better and captures the core gameplay way better
Nah. The only thing I'll give you is that DmC's environment variety and level design is a bit better.
But the bosses certainly weren't better in DmC. The only memorable one is Bob Barbas, the rest are unforgettable or straight trash. Also, I don't consider color-coded enemies as good enemy variety.
But why the hell do people want platforming out of a character action game? Like why is that a bullet point?
I can't trust someone who names oneself after one of the worst characters to ever disgrace Mass Effect.
But the bosses certainly weren't better in DmC. The only memorable one is Bob Barbas, the rest are unforgettable or straight trash. Also, I don't consider color-coded enemies as good enemy variety.
But why the hell do people want platforming out of a character action game? Like why is that a bullet point?
I can't trust someone who names oneself after one of the worst characters to ever disgrace Mass Effect.
Because that's a player made challenge when you still have all your options (including all your air options) available to you, on the flip side, in DmC you would not have all your air options available to you, and stuff like this isn't nearly as fun to do. Not a difficulty concept to follow, on replays people will discover another way to sauce on that boss besides the floor is lava. DmC's way alternatively, would be like the only sauce path is floor is lava.
*shrugs* being more teachable doesn't excuse that Dante has less moves, no inertia of any kind, no styles, worse weapons, and an all around more rigid kit, while having less satisfying enemies n bosses to fight. The error is too quickly we trip over ourselves to act like there wasn't anything wrong with the floor of DmC. Not having a lock on until a definitive edition is a pretty big deal for a 3rd person action game, much less Devil May Cry. Adding said lock on, and still having messier controls than DMC4 n 5 Dante who basically uses the whole controller is just absurd, yet some how NT did it.
People turn their nose at the trigger switching, that aren't even just die hard DMC fans. People act like that shit wasn't criticized in reviews, and we all know the journos are many thing, but elitist DMC fans aint one of them. Even the more casual player can recognize why that set up isn't as fun, it's almost never fun in any video game to get a shit load of tools, and then the game has segments where your tools become useless.
Personally I don't buy the needing multiple playthroughs for it to become a satisfying combat engine, but whatevs.
Whoa whoa whoa whoa. It wasn't a spinoff, it was a reboot, every bit meant to replace the main series. And it got said flack, because at the end of the day the gameplay is still very much in line as a watered down version of the old games.
Color coded enemies being restrictive isn't a poor flaw just for DmC, it's going to get criticized in any type of action game about being creative.
On this we can agree, Kai Leng was the "not self-aware" type of edgelord.
It's a shame you can't make a thread stating you like DmC better in this forum without the annoying ass "DmC isn't a real Devil May Cry!" Jerkoffs coming out of the woodwork to tell you you're wrong.
Anyway, I agree with you OP. I went back to DmC after playing 5 and what can I say? I instantly had more fun doing that on Son of a Sparda than 5 on the higher difficulties.
And lol at the 5 having better alenemt design.
Anyway, I agree with you OP. I went back to DmC after playing 5 and what can I say? I instantly had more fun doing that on Son of a Sparda than 5 on the higher difficulties.
And lol at the 5 having better alenemt design.
Seriously Mission 16 (I think?) doesn't get nearly as much credit as it should. Everyone talks about the beautiful environments, and for good reason, but the plan being sketched on screen was just brilliant. So, so good.
I also really love the mission where they go back to the home they grew up in, I wish DMC5 did way more with that concept than it did, even if I appreciated the shoutout.
I also really love the mission where they go back to the home they grew up in, I wish DMC5 did way more with that concept than it did, even if I appreciated the shoutout.
Are you ok?
DMC 5 doesn't really start until Son of Sparda mode IMO.
It's so scattershot on a first run with the jumps between characters. I feel like it was a mistake not finding a way have it so you could pick any of the 3 characters at the beginning of the game and play through the whole game as whichever character you like. Each has enough depth that they could carry the game on their own, but instead gets about 1/3 of the game. It feels as though you're being rushed through learning each character, Dante in particular. The game seemingly knows this and doesn't want to overwhelm those who are inexperienced, meaning there's not even all that many interesting fights on DH difficulty. Many enemies only get used once or twice, there's few interesting combination fights...
Then you pick SoS and then it's like 10x better. The game's not scared of overwhelming you any more and serves up fights with all sorts of enemy combinations from beginning to end. It's a shame you have to beat the game once to experience that though. Had you just picked one character from the word go they could have just spent the first couple of hours getting you comfortable with the character then unleashing hell. With only 1/3rd of the game with each character it's hard to get comfortable. Even if you played DMC 4.
It's so scattershot on a first run with the jumps between characters. I feel like it was a mistake not finding a way have it so you could pick any of the 3 characters at the beginning of the game and play through the whole game as whichever character you like. Each has enough depth that they could carry the game on their own, but instead gets about 1/3 of the game. It feels as though you're being rushed through learning each character, Dante in particular. The game seemingly knows this and doesn't want to overwhelm those who are inexperienced, meaning there's not even all that many interesting fights on DH difficulty. Many enemies only get used once or twice, there's few interesting combination fights...
Then you pick SoS and then it's like 10x better. The game's not scared of overwhelming you any more and serves up fights with all sorts of enemy combinations from beginning to end. It's a shame you have to beat the game once to experience that though. Had you just picked one character from the word go they could have just spent the first couple of hours getting you comfortable with the character then unleashing hell. With only 1/3rd of the game with each character it's hard to get comfortable. Even if you played DMC 4.
I really think DMC3 is the height of the classic DMC games solely because it comes together so well, whereas DMC4 is awful in that sense and DMC5 felt like a minor improvement when it should've been transformative, much like DmC was.
I haven't DMC5 yet but reading DmC was more fun doesn't encourage me to buy it in the future :/ It was literally the less fun DMC for my tastes (DMC2 aside).
because of pacing???
why the fuck else do you incorporate design elements from other genres into your game?
"i can't trust someone who names..."
ugh, shut up.
It's almost like he wasn't serious with that comment, and the poster he quoted recognized this as well
this is absolutely ridiculous and is not based on any kind of reality. seriously... this is literally moving goal posts. how can you not feel ridiculous after saying something like this?
You're Brave OP but I kind of Agree to some extent. I have not touched DMCV since i finished it where as when i finished DmC, I played it over several times. I think in a character action game, combat shouldn't only be the most important thing, level design such as platforming, pacing and over the top battles are key things. I didn't like the continuous switching between characters in DMCV, as soon as i start getting accustom to the character, i had to switch again, this was annoying. In addition, the levels didn't really had much replay-ability, where as in DmC, i enjoyed the limbo segments when platforms are moving and "sort of" testing my platforming skills. This is the first DMC i didn't pick back up right after finish it.
I've come to realize that the "fun" people had in DmC was traversing through pretty but ultimately braindead platforming sections out of the school of Uncharted. I ended up enjoying it way more than I expected but goddamn.
I haven't played DmC since it originally launched on PS3, but I remember enjoying the whole ride
Comparatively, I got bored of DMCV about five hours in. The characters are entertaining and gorgeous, but the dull level and mission design, combined with clunky boss encounters that don't align well with the mechanics killed my enjoyment quick.
I really dug playing as Nero, but I couldn't get a grip with V and Dante's mechanics.
Comparatively, I got bored of DMCV about five hours in. The characters are entertaining and gorgeous, but the dull level and mission design, combined with clunky boss encounters that don't align well with the mechanics killed my enjoyment quick.
I really dug playing as Nero, but I couldn't get a grip with V and Dante's mechanics.
his post regarding the thread topic is snooty and elitist in general, so pardon me for missing it IF he was being sarcastic.