Do you believe people are born inherently good/evil?

[Darknight]

At one point I believed in nurture completely, but now I'm not so sure. Some people are inherently selfish and aggressive, it seems. And while one could argue this is all due to conditioning, I don't think you can completely remove an individual's brain.

We don't believe everyone has the same capacity for intelligence of course. That is just not true. Why should we believe everyone has the same capacity for compassion?

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Ya, I used to think it was all nurture too until I had kids and witnessed other kids with knowing their parents and I don't believe it's pure nurture anymore. It's a bit of both. People's personalities aren't learned. There's something in their nature that shapes that. How they respond to things certainly is taught to a certain extent, but their personality also impacts their tolerance or willingness to respond to certain behaviors. Seeing kids in the same family be completely different despite the same upbringing environments has shown there has to be some element of nature to it. Plus we talk all the time about kids being on the spectrum now which isn't a binary thing. So knowing that there is that variance which can impact how their behavior is, why are we so quick to completely blame it on nurture these days? I no longer assume it's the parent's fault if a kid does something bad. It could be, but it's not always the case.

 

[Deleted member 24118]

Some people, sure.

Antisocial personality disorder is associated with brain abnormalities and there's actually a thing called pseuodopsychopathy where brain damage gives you antisocial traits. Acting like these things have nothing to do with how your brain is wired is silly.

 

[Foffy]

What is good? What is evil? These things can be different depending on who you ask. That's the first question. People are an amalgamation of conditionings and conditions. "Good" and "evil" and projections of thought.

Burning down a forest to make a manufacturing facility can be simultaneously good or evil, and that depends specifically on what thoughts and ideas you believe. There's no "inherent" view of good or evil one can be born with, for these are learned views and responses to specific actions.

 

[hwarang]

At one point I believed in nurture completely, but now I'm not so sure. Some people are inherently selfish and aggressive, it seems. And while one could argue this is all due to conditioning, I don't think you can completely remove an individual's brain.

We don't believe everyone has the same capacity for intelligence of course. That is just not true. Why should we believe everyone has the same capacity for compassion?

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Not some people. Everyone is inherently selfish, whether they admit to it or not.

 

[Saray]

Nature vs Nurture in reality is Nature plus Nurture. If you have two babies and magically their upbringing were exactly the same, their personality still wouldn't be the same at all.

So some people are born more predisponed to be evil yes, but education is important too in the end result.

 

[Malverde]

I believe human beings are inherently good.

 

[Apathy]

It's a combination of both nature and nurture but there are definitely people born lacking empathy and having sociopathic tendencies. It's why kids with perfectly normal upbringings that do inherently have this can do this like hurt animals while their siblings (or a majority of children) don't.

 

[Deleted member 4346]

No, of course not.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Some people, sure.

Antisocial personality disorder is associated with brain abnormalities and there's actually a thing called pseuodopsychopathy where brain damage gives you antisocial traits. Acting like these things have nothing to do with how your brain is wired is silly.

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Yep. Our brains are fundementally wired to make us more prone to certain behaviors. It's an obvious fact when we think about us in contexts like humans being social animals and such and in a broad view as a species, but understandably many people have a hard time accepting that this can also apply on an individual level. If our genetic code makes us predisposed to work together for survival, it should be obvious that mutations in the code responsible could lead to people who aren't inclined to those behaviors. Obviously it's not an absolute thing because stuff like our environment and epigenetic factors will shape things too, but it can be a powerful inclination in one direction or another. That said I think most people aren't particularly genetically inclined one way or another in comparison to the average, and mostly this manifests in outliers

 

[legend166]

I'm a Calvinist, total depravity is the first thing on the list.

 

[Rosebud]

Of course not.

Especially because good/evil isn't that simple. Like I think hunting is evil, but many good people do it as a sport, that's life.

Some people, sure.

Antisocial personality disorder is associated with brain abnormalities and there's actually a thing called pseuodopsychopathy where brain damage gives you antisocial traits. Acting like these things have nothing to do with how your brain is wired is silly.

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But if they have a brain damage that can't be controlled, they aren't evil.

 

[Yesterday]

nurture all the way imo

 

[Annubis]

We all start evil. Like any animal.
Some end up understanding that there are self advantages to society and justness.

 

[Darknight]

But if they have a brain damage that can't be controlled, they aren't evil.

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What we typically think of as acts of evil often is from a mental health issue though based on the physiology of our brain.

 

[Davidion]

I don't see good and evil as anything more than convenient, oversimplified shorthands for some culturally accepted/rejected behavior, so no.

It will never be either nature vs. nurture; just outsized influence of one over the other in some select cases.

 

[Crimsonskies]

No nobody is born evil I think one of the prosecutors during the Nuremberg trial who was jewish said when he tried to define the evils of the Nazi regime and how these men could committ such crimes.

He said the lack of empathy the inability to feel for your fellow man is what evil truly is.

 

[CthulhuSars]

Some people, sure.

Antisocial personality disorder is associated with brain abnormalities and there's actually a thing called pseuodopsychopathy where brain damage gives you antisocial traits. Acting like these things have nothing to do with how your brain is wired is silly.

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Although this is true, behavior is learned and can be modified given the right conditions. Does this stop people from being good/evil as far as society views those terms? That right now is actually quite the debate in the philosophical/psychological world right now.

 

[Deleted member 23381]

Outside of certain mental health parameters no.

And even that's iffy because good and evil are societal concepts.

 

[Skade]

Nobody's born "good" or "evil". We are just born "innocent". It's what happen to us after that make us change one way or the other.

 

[Rendering...]

It's obviously a mix of nature and nurture. Probably more of the latter in most cases.

 

[Magic-Man]

Unless it's a mental illness that's noticable from a very young age, no. Almost everything is taught by (or lack of) a strong adult presence in your life.

 

[Deleted member 24118]

But if they have a brain damage that can't be controlled, they aren't evil.

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Obviously if we're defining evil as "has no inherent compulsions traits that steer them to doing bad things but do them anyways" then of course nobody is inherently evil. Because you're specifically defining it so they can't be.

But there are people who are physically inclined to be selfish and destructive. It's not as simple as them having a bad upbringing, it's literally how they are.

 

[Rosebud]

Obviously if we're defining evil as "has no inherent compulsions traits that steer them to doing bad things but do them anyways" then of course nobody is inherently evil. Because you're specifically defining it so they can't be.

But there are people who are physically inclined to be selfish and destructive. It's not as simple as them having a bad upbringing, it's literally how they are.

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But couldn't it be treated/controlled like other mental health issues?

 

[Ravensmash]

No.

people are a product of their environment and experiences

and that environment/experience is very impactful through childhood

 

[Rivyn]

People are born neutral. Hate and love comes up the moment your brain can comprehend the difference. What you become is influenced by a myriad of factors; environments, parenting etc.

 

[Deleted member 2834]

You would have to define "good" or "evil" first, no? No real way to answer the question otherwise. By "good" do you mean character traits that were considered generally desirable by people at the certain time and place the person was born into? And evil being the undesirable ones?

 

[NullPointerException]

I recall reading from somewhere that in one particular ancient civilisation (can't exactly remember where but I want to say Mesopotamia) that a person is either good or sick. The notion of evil doesn't exist.

 

[Kurtikeya]

Maybe not, but it's nonetheless a necessary fiction to believe we're meant to be good or that we're meant to unlock the goodness in us. I'm thinking of original sin, Harvard's Big Mother study, and dharma.

 

[Deleted member 7130]

No and thinking you can start to categorize people between good people and bad people based on conditions of birth is eugenics

 

[Deleted member 2809]

That would be an extremely stupid thing to believe

 

[T002 Tyrant]

No not even dictators or serial killers like Harold Shipman, The Moors Murderers, Ted Bundy etc are inherently evil, yup Donald Trump wasn't born the way he was. It's all a perfect storm of circumstance, environment, and yes to some extent there are genetics involved but if you have a gene that makes you more likely to lack empathy and emotion - I doesn't make you evil. How you're brought up and circumstance will determine. Some "psychopaths" are firefighters, doctors, and surgeons. Their lack of empathy and staying cool under pressure really helps society rather than becomes an evil menace to society. Even when an "evil" person isn't a psychopath environment and circumstances have a lot to do with things.

Imagine if Hitler hadn't joined the army in WWI, and had been accepted into art college. he may have been on the sidewalks of Austria painting landscapes of Vienna sipping coffee and talking to a psychologist about his abusive childhood. Circumstance (alongside upbringing) has a huge impact on how people react and behave.

 

[Khoryos]

No, but there are things that aren't just either taught or not taught. Something like empathy isn't something you learn. Same with things that tie into that, like greed.

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It's a spectrum.

Resilient people by nature who are also in the spectrum of "goodness" will thrive even if they're placed in bad circumstances.

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I believe there are some people that are simply born (due to brain chemistry) sociopathic, or at least more likely to engage in anti-social behavior.

Learned behavior accounts for plenty, but lot of your base personality is dictated by how you're wired to deal with things.

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I wouldn't necessarily call it evil, but some people are definitely born with tendencies that may be malicious.

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At one point I believed in nurture completely, but now I'm not so sure. Some people are inherently selfish and aggressive, it seems. And while one could argue this is all due to conditioning, I don't think you can completely remove an individual's brain.

We don't believe everyone has the same capacity for intelligence of course. That is just not true. Why should we believe everyone has the same capacity for compassion?

Click to shrink...

Obviously if we're defining evil as "has no inherent compulsions traits that steer them to doing bad things but do them anyways" then of course nobody is inherently evil. Because you're specifically defining it so they can't be.

But there are people who are physically inclined to be selfish and destructive. It's not as simple as them having a bad upbringing, it's literally how they are.

Click to shrink...

 

[Deleted member 23893]

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Uhhh yeah. No.

Human experience and brain chemistry is varied. From ADHD, to depression, to schizophrenia, to bi-polar disorder, and the list goes on and on and on. We don't all have the same brain, just waiting to sponge up whatever experiences and lessons we happen to come across.

Some things you're just born with based on genetics. Pretending like absolutely everything is nurture, and hand waving everything else as phrenology, is the mental health equivalent of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" talk.

 

[Dever]

Well, "evil" is a strong word, but I don't think it's disputed that your personality is partly a result of your genetics.

 

[Rosebud]

Uhhh yeah. No.

Human experience and brain chemistry is varied. From ADHD, to depression, to schizophrenia, to bi-polar disorder, and the list goes on and on and on. We don't all have the same brain, just waiting to sponge up whatever experiences and lessons we happen to come across.

Some things you're just born with based on genetics. Pretending like absolutely everything is nurture, and hand waving everything else as phrenology, is the mental health equivalent of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" talk.

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But if two people have the same disorders, one gets treatment since childhood, the other has an abusive home/family, they will turn out different.

 

[nelsonroyale]

nope. People have biochemical characteristics which perhaps make them more susceptible to carry out certain types of aggressive behaviour perhaps, but nurture, environment and encounters play a huge role. It is never really nature vs nurture, but an interplay between biochemical make up, physiology, and environment, learning and circumstance.

 

[Tomasoares]

No, I don't think the environment is also 100% responsible for what a person will become either.

People are born as different beings, but that doesn't mean good or evil, just different.

 

[Advance.Wars.Sgt.]

I believe people can be born with a predisposition towards psychopathy and a general disregard for human life other than the self, yes.

 

[Zombine]

I was actually born Chaotic Neutral

 

[MnM]

Good and evil don't really exist. It's a concept created by humans. So, your question is pretty silly.

 

[gcwy]

No and I'd like to know why people think that way.

 

[Deleted member 23893]

But if two people have the same disorders, one gets treatment since childhood, the other has an abusive home/family, they will turn out different.

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Certainly, but that's not what the person I was responding to was saying with their dismissive post.

And even then. Disorders can manifest to varying degrees of intensity, that can override even a positive/nurturing environment. Sometimes the dopamine centers of your brain (or lack thereof) reward anti-social behaviors, environment be damned.

Who knows what the ratio of nature v. nurture ultimately is. But anyone pretending that biology having a huge impact on behavior is pseudoscience (as that poster was), is talking out of their ass.

 

[RPGam3r]

I don't think it's a nature vs nurture, but more of a nature with nurture. Some people are probably born more susceptible to "evil". It seems weird with the complexities of both environments and our brains that anyone would say it all on or the other.

 

[NullPointer]

Born selfish and tribal and oblivious to your own class/privilege? certainly

Good and evil are pretty relative terms, and without intent I don't see the point

 

[Deleted member 7051]

Good and evil don't really exist. It's a concept created by humans. So, your question is pretty silly.

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"There is no good nor evil, but thinking makes it so."

As human constructs, good and evil are entirely subjective and the definitions of such change too frequently and are too often used as definitions by the people in power to control others by encouraging or discouraging certain acts and beliefs. Let's not forget that science and philosophy used to be evil because trying to understand things yourself was considered the same as not accepting the explanation the Church gave and they really didn't like that. So I don't see how someone can be born good or evil because who gets to decide what is defined as such?

 

[julia crawford]

Look, not my fault i was born a demon.

 

[Lurcharound]

I'm going to ignore the good/evil which is too simplistic and confuses the issue.

We're not born blank slates and it's not all nurture. We're animals and just like animals we're born with basic traits that do influence our behaviour. In simple terms these define if that individual is more/less likely to be aggressive, trusting, etc. IIRC these are often grouped in 4 or 5 core behavioural traits that are clearly driven by your genetics.

From that point nurture kicks in and of course can have a huge impact on how the individual develops - so the baby that would have been more placid/trusting is born into an environment that pushes the individual to become more aggressive/violent; conversely a baby whose traits lean to being more assertive/aggressive may find itself in an environment that nullify those and becomes more calm and controlled.

TL:DR - it's objectively both so far a current research shows in terms of behaviour but don't think "good/evil" it's more complicated than that.

I get our culture tends to push towards "blank slate/innocence" angle and to also not consider us as as merely an animal like any other, but all the research I've ever seen clearly shows we are born with basic behavioural traits already in place just like any other animal although, again just like animals, after birth nurture and environment then has a huge impact on shaping how you develop from that base.

 

[Lost Knight]

Good and Evil are nothing more than human constructs, ethics are just a system of conduct created by us humans and evolved as our societies got complex and our understanding of the world around us grew. Human behavior is controlled by many factors, our evolutionary past, our upbringing, the experience we have, the people we meet, the media we consume, etc. So to say that we're born evil or good is silly because we had no conception of what good and evil are, especially seeing how these terms are very subjective and depend on cultural, philosophical, and social contexts. We might not be Tabula Rasa, but we're defiantly influenced by factors that our genes have nothing to do with.

 

[iAmPossum]

At least the nice thing is assholes can be nurtured to hide their bad personality provided they get good training and socialization when young. Doesn't mean they will be by nature empathetic and "good".

 

[Oyashiro-Sama]

They are one of the most cunning and vicious animals on the planet.