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Doctor Who Series 11 |OT|- She’s Here, and It’s About Time
- Thread starter Dwebble
- Start date
New Earth is low-key one of the show's worst episodes. It doesn't get nearly as much attention as the usual suspects of bad eps but goddamn is it terrible.
OH MY GOD I forgot how good that scene is. Jenna is an acting treasure as well.
I'm on a Youtube frenzy right now because of my last post and it's incredible how many amazing scenes of Clara and 12 just talking/arguing/figuring their relationships we have, it's really on a whole other level :
- Their argument in the restaurant in Deep Breath
- "Am I a good man ?" in Into The Dalek
- Clara's outburst in Kill The Moon
- The addiction speech in Mummy in The Orient Express
- Clara blackmailing the Doctor before she gets forgiven
- Their farewell in Death in Heaven where they both lie to each other
- Them reuniting in Last Christmas and taking their second chance
- Clara's last words in Face The Raven
- Basically all of Hell Bent
And I'm probably forgetting a lot of them, but it's really insane to see how much time is dedicated not to the plot, but to them, when the main criticism about Moffat's era is that it's too fast-paced.
Yeah. Peter Capaldi was the guy I really loved as Doctor Who. It could have something to do with his very seventies taste in clothing, his skill with the guitar, and the fact that he's very close to me in age. He's never funnier than when Moffat is writing the words. "Who frowned me this face?"
Does anyone have this? Cuz I'm about to click 'buy' out of all the PC nostalgia.
https://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Who-Complete-Capaldi-Blu-ray/dp/B077RG1813/
https://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Who-Complete-Capaldi-Blu-ray/dp/B077RG1813/
Actually I bought that a couple of months ago and I've been having a fantastic time rewatching it in HD, so much better than TV quality. I'd definitely recommend it, especially because the Matt Smith one is now only available for hundreds of dollars online now.
Yeah, his lines like that make me laugh out loud.
I like the David Bowie inspiration in his Doctor too.
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Bill was good. The Doctor was always well written but isn't, you know, human. I'm not saying I disliked his writing. Like I said, my biggest complaint is that sometimes he didn't give his great ideas enough room to breath.
If we want to talk character development, then obviously Graham stands out, but I wasn't talking about development, but how human characters felt. To use a non Moffat example, I mean it in the same way Rose often didn't feel 'human' in season 2 (Tooth and Claw and The Idiot Lantern stand out). Clara was great in her governess form, but I really didn't like the first or third version of her. I wish they'd stuck with the original plan to have the governess become the companion.
The teams interactions with all the staff in Kerblam! really sell you on the idea that they're still essentially human. They treat the people they run into like equals, even though they're doing menial jobs. They aren't 'special' in some scifi cosmic way like most of Moffat's companions. Those are the stories Moffat liked to tell. Amy, the girl with the crack in her wall. Rory the man who died a lot and who spent thousands of years as a Roman auton. Clara the woman who became thousands of versions of herself all for the Doctor. It's understandable that they aren't particularly recognizable as humans.
And to be as transparent as possible, I loved Nardole because he was unashamedly alien. Osgood was a very 'human' character, even if she stopped being human.
I guess I like the Doctor to be offset by characters that represent humanity, and the current team are wonderfully human.
Rose was at her best when taking the time to chat to a plumber or enthusing about chips. Not yucking it up while people died.
Just my own tastes. It wasn't my intent to imply that Moffat *can't* write humans who behave human. But he rarely seemed interested in it, almost seeming to suggest that it's admirable for people to refuse travel with the Doctor.
As critical as I've been about this season I thought it was a good finale. Graham should dropped the f-bomb Bruce Willis style.
As critical as I've been about this season I thought it was a good finale. Graham should dropped the f-bomb Bruce Willis style.
Yes, Graham is delivering an audience-appropriate reference to Die Hard. Those who know the film get it, but the tiny tots, similar to me when I saw the first episode in 1963, won't be kept away from the television by anxious parents.
The viewing figures for this series seem to have held up well. The show is clearly seeking to open up a more general audience which has evaded it in recent years.
Look, I utterly adored the Russell T Davies and Steven Moffat years. If it were up to me I would let writers steeped in Who lore continue to present ever-more riffs on the themes already established since 2005.
But the reality is that the show has flogged two of the world's greatest and most talented fan writers to the point of exhaustion, and the audience has shrunk despite their efforts.
I'm not privy to Chris Chibnall's game plan, but it does look as if it involves in part a return to the original Sidney Newman model. The key here would be to seek a broad audience by providing proxies. In the 1963 model I seem to recall the brief included a teenager, an older authority figure, and two others who turned out to be Susan's history teacher and her science teacher.
Here in 2018 we have a couple of young people from South Asian and Afro-Caribbean backgrounds (both key audiences who are neglected in the UK), an older authority figure in the form of Graham, and a mercurial alien who clearly hasn't quite worked it all out yet.
I watched that first episode in 1963, with my dad. It's good to see the show in metamorphosis but still managing to gain new audiences. I hope there will be more historical episodes. I loved those as a little child.
LL_Decitrig have you been watching the show consistently since day one? Would you have seen episodes (like Marco Polo, Tenth Planet, etc.) that no longer exist?
When Chibnall was announced as showrunner I expected some melodrama with deep character development. It's what Torchwood and Broadchurch had in the years he was running those, so why wouldn't I expect that? Instead it just seems like this season has felt like nothing. No climactic ending, no build to anything for the characters. Just a fart of a finale that didn't seem anything special. This is the first finale that felt like that since I started watching the 2005 series. Even Big Finish audio series know to make a series end with a climax.
I don't know what's unique about Jodie's Doctor. The Doctor has always seemed like an incredibly deep character to me but I can't see that in 13 yet. She just seems earnest and hates violence and..... that's it? It's been a whole series and
Since we're looking back on Capaldi years, I always thought he was brilliant but still dislike Clara and how much focus and importance she got. I still dislike how messily Moffat wrapped up his season arcs but I can at least respect that he always went for it unlike Chibbers with this season. When Moffat got it right he was better than anyone else. Heaven Sent is an episode of TV that will stick with me forever.
I don't know what's unique about Jodie's Doctor. The Doctor has always seemed like an incredibly deep character to me but I can't see that in 13 yet. She just seems earnest and hates violence and..... that's it? It's been a whole series and
Since we're looking back on Capaldi years, I always thought he was brilliant but still dislike Clara and how much focus and importance she got. I still dislike how messily Moffat wrapped up his season arcs but I can at least respect that he always went for it unlike Chibbers with this season. When Moffat got it right he was better than anyone else. Heaven Sent is an episode of TV that will stick with me forever.
I watched Doctor Who every Saturday after the football results during the 1960s, but after the first regeneration I was, like any fan, wrinkling my nose and saying "this new guy isn't really Doctor Who." By the mid-seventies I found the production values of the show quite alarmingly poor, and younger fans may be surprised to hear that I didn't particularly warm to Tom Baker. I was a university student at the time and had more interesting things to do, even when I possessed a television set or had access to one.
My favourite classic Doctor Who is probably Hartnell, but I always loved Silvester McCoy from his Vision On days so I was so pleased to see him take on the role and do so well in it. All the other guys were also great, and I'm particularly pleased that Colin Baker has been recognised for his dedication to the role.
And yes, in answer to your question, I remember the Marco Polo story. It was in fact my introduction to this fascinating traveller. I also recall The Trojans, the Tenth Planet (whose primitive prosthetics were so well recreated in the Tenth Series finale with Bill), and many other stories.
There is a huge misconception about Colin's first series in that it rated poorly, it actually rated well, on par with Davidson last 2 series. It just got caught up in budget cuts and a head of BBC that hated the series. So it got a forced 18 month "break" and then scheduled against Coronation Street on a different night when it came back. The ratings tanked from that point and led to the downward spiral ratings wise that gave the BBC ammunition to get rid of it.
My comparison the Colin isn't about the ratings but about the quality of the episodes and Jodie's development as the Doctor. Both are amazing actors and you can see the greatness in their portrayal but their first series are hampered by some average episodes and bad writing.
The reason I'm comparing this season alot to Peter & Colin's first series is I can see alot of the mistake made in those, too many companions crowding the Tardis and giving Jodie less time to shine. Really subpar episodes that don't feel like what Doctor Who had become, bringing in more big star actors to try and get buzz (Jonathan Nathan Turner was super guilty of this).
Do I think the show and the episodes are as bad as what 5 & 6 got, hell no, but the quality of the episodes is down and while the ratings are great so was Peter's first season. I'm just worried where this could all be heading going forward. I want every new Doctor to be the best Doctor, I want Jodie to be the best and I feel she's being held back by the episodes and the writing.
Yeah, that while scene completely sold Series 9 to me. I don't really get the Under the Lake story, but then I loved everything else.
I even loved, on rewatching, Sleep No More.
Gatiss doesn't need Doctor Who to be recognised as a great writer, but it definitely needs to be said: that guy's writing for Doctor Who has always pushed the boundaries in a very laudable way. Cold War is one of my favourite episodes of Doctor Who. There's not a single ounce of fat on that story, and it brings back on of the classic seventies creatures in the most spectacular way.
By the by, is this the first year without a Gatiss story? Seems like he's been involved since 2005.
In terms of Doctor comparisons, Thirteen is a lot like Fifth Doctor, though I'd argue he's even more passive.
I will say this, it weirds me out that CC attempted smaller stories with a bigger main cast. I get he's more used to ensembles, but if that format continues, the stories will always have to either cover a lot of ground or sacrifice development for a character or two.
So far, the biggest victim of this is arguably The Doctor, not Yaz.
I will say this, it weirds me out that CC attempted smaller stories with a bigger main cast. I get he's more used to ensembles, but if that format continues, the stories will always have to either cover a lot of ground or sacrifice development for a character or two.
So far, the biggest victim of this is arguably The Doctor, not Yaz.
He's been involved in Doctor Who since before the revival. There were a couple of episodes under Russell T Davies, and his close collaboration with Steven Moffat probably helped him to an episode in each of Series 5-10. I consider Mark Gatiss, unequivocally, one among many great Doctor Who writers. He wrote some of my all-time favourite episodes. I didn't use to make a point of following writers, but looking back I'm seeing that Mark Gatiss has been at subject to extreme criticism. Yet when I look back I see stuff like Victory of the Daleks and Cold War. This is really great writing.
I think it was really smart to just make things entirely fresh this year, though I'd now like to see a couple of old names return next year.
But not Gatiss
I'd quite like to see Cornell or Whithouse return from the longer-term alumni, and it'd be great to see Mathieson do some more, too.
I've been feeling so sour on s11 this week I've began to wish we had him take over instead of Chibnall... yikes.
It should pass.
It's so weird how much better his writing was for Sherlock, including The Great Game, the series 1 finale.
If he could keep up that quality for Doctor Who I'd be all for it.
So I enjoyed the finale. But the ending felt very abrupt. Which is something else, considering they had extra minutes this series.
Series 9 question: what were "The Magician's Apprentice" and "The Witch's Familiar" titles referencing to?
I'm kinda getting a Fantasia reference, but not sure how they relate to the Davros/Daleks plot. I was thinking it's Clara being the Doctor/Magician's apprentice in part 1 and being Missy/Witch's familiar/plaything in part 2.
I'm kinda getting a Fantasia reference, but not sure how they relate to the Davros/Daleks plot. I was thinking it's Clara being the Doctor/Magician's apprentice in part 1 and being Missy/Witch's familiar/plaything in part 2.
I think the first half title is referencing Davros and the second half references Clara.
I always get the impression that Clara is really saying "I love you" to the Doctor instead of Danny in this scene.
Maybe the analogy is that the Doctor is the big ol' wizard, Davros is Mickey Mouse, and the Daleks are the little sentient brooms ran amok (?) idk but The Witch's Familiar feels very spot on for Clara
Basically, yeah. Davros was inspired by the Doctor and everything went to hell because of that. The Witch's Familiar is absolutely referring to the Missy/Clara dynamic.
since the Season 12 bluray seems out of print now (I only hope its because they're doing another run with fixes), I ended up buying the season 19 season which came out this week. I watched Castrovalva, Davison's first story last night to check it out for anyone wanting to know what sort of upgrade it is over a standard DVD. I watched it on a standalone Bluray player on a 55" 4K OLED. I also watched it with the optional updated CG FX. Most 1080P material looks fine on a 4k screen, but SD stuff less so.
How do these look on bluray?
Fucking amazing. The filmed sequences and titles are rescanned and look amazing as they are now in full HD.
The studio sequences have scrubbed up nicely and don't look too soft, though some long shots can see things looking less distinct.
The upgrade CG (Castrovalva didn't have particularly bad effects for its time) is a lot more tasteful than what we saw on the DVDs (which often were worse than the original sequences). It is an option rather than the default settings.
So yeah, not that there was any chance I wouldn't be buying these on another format but the upgrade is there for anyone on the fence.
How do these look on bluray?
Fucking amazing. The filmed sequences and titles are rescanned and look amazing as they are now in full HD.
The studio sequences have scrubbed up nicely and don't look too soft, though some long shots can see things looking less distinct.
The upgrade CG (Castrovalva didn't have particularly bad effects for its time) is a lot more tasteful than what we saw on the DVDs (which often were worse than the original sequences). It is an option rather than the default settings.
So yeah, not that there was any chance I wouldn't be buying these on another format but the upgrade is there for anyone on the fence.
He didn't write anything in Series 3 or 4, but he did appear in The Lazarus Experiment in 3.
The whole story (and arguably all S9) is a matrix of mirrors and parallels.
First off, think of the titles in terms of the cold opens they accompany: the Doctor literally passes his sonic (magic wand) to the young Davros - making him an apprentice - then in part 2, Missy fashions a "wand" of her own (sharpened stick) before setting off with Clara. Missy is an obvious comparison to a witch, which might make Dalek-shell-Clara her familiar. Simultaneously, the most obvious "familiar" in the episode is Colony Sarff, a literal transforming snake servant, which would also make Davros a witch. While the obvious "magician and apprentice" in the context of S8/9 are the Doctor and Clara, as you saw.
This web of connections and parallels between the Doctor, Davros, Missy and Clara - ostensibly heroic characters with villainous ones - exists to set the stage for where the Doctor/Clara relationship ultimately goes at the end of S9, which is a friendship turned destructive.
Yeah this season was kind of a bummer, i feel like jodies doctor recieved little to no character development. The companions were great, gram in particular, but the stories were just, idk kind of bland. The lack of a strong ark was really dissapointing. I know its "easy writing" but I like that carrot dangling on the end of the string throughout each episode. There were some solid episodes though, demons of the pujnab and rosa in particular, and the cabin episode was good too. But otherwise this season just felt inconequental to a fault and im worried i wont even care by the time the series comes back. I want jodie to get more development, i want to really get to know her doctor
I don't watch this show (I know, I know, what am I even doing here) but I've gotta say I'm still bummed to see so many lukewarm opinions on the first season with a female Doctor Who. I can tell from browsing y'all's posts that you had high hopes for it as well. One of my roommates/best friends has been hyped to binge this season because she thought less and less of the previous showrunner and she's just been so giddy about the new lead. I'll keep my mouth shut and hope she enjoys the season more.
Man, how have I totally not seen that before? That's an amazing take.
I'd also add in the idea that if Clara is The Magician (the Doctor)'s Apprentice then you could also read the Doctor as being The Witch (Clara)'s Familiar. As in, from her view, she is the driving force who occasionally has to call for help from her shapeshifting, magical assistant.
So that New Year trailer. Which villain is back? I think Jodie's Doctor would be amazing in a Weeping Angel episode.
Some of the episodes have seemed a bit abrupt this season but I enjoyed most of them. I loved Capaldi but am almost liking Jodie more in some ways.
Some of the episodes have seemed a bit abrupt this season but I enjoyed most of them. I loved Capaldi but am almost liking Jodie more in some ways.
I just watched the first two episodes of season one and god it's just so much better than anything in season eleven. Yeah it's super cheesy, the music is lame, and they had no effects budget, but it's got characters you can care about. The Doctor has his issues to work through. There's drama and stakes.
Season eleven has almost none of that. There are no stakes. There's hardly any drama. They only character that works at all is Graham. Ryan isn't interesting, and the guy can't act besides. Yaz is a completely useless character.
And I'm sorry, but Jodie just is not the Doctor. I don't know if it's the writing, which has been god awful, or it's her, but she comes across as someone trying to be the Eleventh Doctor and failing hard.
So this season we got bad stories, bad writing, bad characters, bad casting.. At least it looked pretty, I guess. I donno. The news that we won't be getting a new season till 2020 sucks. But I think I'll spend that time rewatching NuWho from 2005 onwards, when the show was good.
Season eleven has almost none of that. There are no stakes. There's hardly any drama. They only character that works at all is Graham. Ryan isn't interesting, and the guy can't act besides. Yaz is a completely useless character.
And I'm sorry, but Jodie just is not the Doctor. I don't know if it's the writing, which has been god awful, or it's her, but she comes across as someone trying to be the Eleventh Doctor and failing hard.
So this season we got bad stories, bad writing, bad characters, bad casting.. At least it looked pretty, I guess. I donno. The news that we won't be getting a new season till 2020 sucks. But I think I'll spend that time rewatching NuWho from 2005 onwards, when the show was good.
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This is the first season I've felt no desire to revisit. I doubt I will in the future either. Jodie deserved better.
Man I just rewatched this episode not long ago and still didn't realize this, brilliant
I have to agree
Haha, I shall! I'm not sure when exactly she'll be catching up, but I'll keep an eye out for it.