Doctor Who: The Fifteenth Doctor |OT| Ncuti Stars (Season 1 debuts on May 10th/11th)

[zou]

That just means Ruby is a bit of a shitty person. She heard from the Doctor about the nukes, she saw the interview on TV, with him talking about nukes, and allowed a woman to be sexually assaulted before taking action, by not taking action beforehand.

I just think she should have acted as soon as she got the chance to be 73 yards from him. I'm totally sure she had some chances beforehand. Just doesn't smell right to me.

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What if she only gets one chance? What if taking out the wrong person means she also fails? What if things weren't 100% set in stone for the PM until the day he's about to receive the nuke codes?

If I was in Ruby's position, trying to figure out what the hell is going, I would also want to absolutely make sure it was the right choice. It's either that or saying fuck it, YOLO (and if she guessed wrong, that's literally it). I really don't see any issue with it, it's by far the logical choice.

 

[Jakenbakin]

For someone who only had "one chance" (which... she decided that, there was no implication there was only one chance) I thought it was a pretty terrible plan. If the woman is 73 yards away from Ruby, how do you assure that she's not 146 yards away from Mad Jack? It was just one of the many parts of the episode that had me throwing my arms up in the air like fine sure whatever. I would think maneuvering your supernatural ghost is difficult enough that you should just try to do it whenever you have the opportunity instead of waiting until the last moment then banking on a half formulated plan working. She already knew his name, his nickname, his position as Prime Minister, his desire for nuclear weapons with the implication of him suggesting he would launch them, and that he was Welsh. There really was no need for more evidence, and a politician being a sexual predator really didn't add more evidence that she needed to take him out than the information she already had. Like "maybe it's a different Welsh Roger ap Gwilliam prime minister obsessed with nuclear weapons in the 2040s than the one the Doctor mentioned, hmm, let's see what he does with this aide before rushing into anything."

 

[RepairmanJack]

I thought Boom was the worst ep so far, but I generally love Moffet. I think Moffet always gets brought down when he tries to do too much thematically, not necessarily plot wise, and this was definitely an episode where he was trying to juggle too many things.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

What if she only gets one chance? What if taking out the wrong person means she also fails? What if things weren't 100% set in stone for the PM until the day he's about to receive the nuke codes?

If I was in Ruby's position, trying to figure out what the hell is going, I would also want to absolutely make sure it was the right choice. It's either that or saying fuck it, YOLO (and if she guessed wrong, that's literally it). I really don't see any issue with it, it's by far the logical choice.

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I think the "I only have one chance at this" was more her realizing that the moment she showed a hint of aggression toward Roger she'd never, ever be able to get close to him again. If the Woman DIDN'T do her thing to Roger at the Cardiff arena she would've been fired and probably arrested.

 

[mnk]

Does it even make sense for Gwilliams to have paid attention to the Woman? Based on what Ruby told Kate, people generally don't acknowledge her unless Ruby prompts them to. If all it takes is to be positioned next to her, presumably tons of people over the years would've gotten close enough to get scared. I guess it could be argued Ruby's actions were causing Gwilliam to be more observant than normal, even if she didn't directly do/say anything to make him look at her.

Nevermind that there was nothing to suggest being afraid of Ruby would make him stand down as Prime Minister. The most she should've reasonably expected to happen was him looking silly/weak in front of his supporters.

Edit: but on the other hand, I don't blame Ruby for thinking she had to try it, even if she didn't know what it would accomplish. In her mind, this guy and the faerie circle were connected, so her actions make sense.

 

[ImaPlayThis]

So to change the subject a bit, am I the only one not really hyped for the next episode Dot and Bubble? Like we already know it'll feature social commentary on a variety of topics including but not limited to younger generations, social media usages and creating safe space and I just think it's going to be well rather uninspired and I won't agree with the conclusions that RTD will make.

Like after his commentary of cancel culture and him thinking it as a joke and that people shouldn't face consequences for their actions just has me very trepidatious for the next episode. I will admit that they aren't entirely the same situations as I think RTD was so dismissal and negative due to how toxic his first era was behind the scenes with two of his prominent stars having fallen from grace and I don't know if he has the same hang ups regarding what he'll tackle this week.

Anyway I know we should wait and see but I just wanted to share my current hesitations

 

[Guppeth]

Like after his commentary of cancel culture and him thinking it as a joke and that people shouldn't face consequences for their actions just has me very trepidatious for the next episode.

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What's this about?

 

[ImaPlayThis]

What's this about?

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It's how I and a bunch of other people interpretated the Toymakers speech about the games of the 21st century in The Giggle

 

[plagiarize]

I don't think Ruby was the woman the whole time. If she were then she'd be saying 'don't step' from the very beginning (in the 'first' iteration) and the episode doesn't happen.

Ruby merges with the woman after she serves her life of penitence at the very end, and she is allowed to go back in time and prevent them from disrupting the circle.

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This is how I think it went. It's not a loop. She has the penance and then merges with the lady and prevents the circle being broken.

 

[Guppeth]

It's how I and a bunch of other people interpretated the Toymakers speech about the games of the 21st century in The Giggle

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Ah I see. That's not how I interpreted it. I saw it as a critique of keyboard warriors, slacktivists etc.

 

[ImaPlayThis]

Ah I see. That's not how I interpreted it. I saw it as a critique of keyboard warriors, slacktivists etc.

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Yeah but when you draw it out the implication is that it's people making a fuss over nothing and/or overacting to make themselves feel good instead of caring about actual injustices yadda yadda yadda

At least that's where my thinking is about on the commentary. But each to their own, everyone interprets art differently

 

[KingWillance]

Really didn't read the Toymaker's speech as being about cancel culture, just more the very real thing where people online will get caught up trying to win instead of listening to the other party or admitting to any fault. I felt like that was spelled out with what the giggle actually did in making people convinced they were right in all contexts, experts or common sense be damned.

That being said I fully expect "Dot and Bubble" to be an old man rants about technology episode, but I am still kinda excited about it. I imagine it's more going to be about how easy it is to get isolated from the rest of the world even if you're "connected." Filtering out bummer news, ignoring problems on your doorstep, etc, etc. At the very least it looks great visually from the preview!

 

[Kalor]

I wasn't sure what to think of Dot and Bubble with the initial preview but one of the clips showed the social media users where everyone was white except the Doctor, which seemed very deliberate. So could see that being the point they focus on as a reaction to the racists that came out with Gatwas casting, rather than more general social media commentary. But who knows since 73 Yards wasn't what the preview suggested.

 

[Andrew J]

I live in a small city, and there's at least one restaurant that's cash only. It's not unreasonable at all to think the same might be possible of a pub in rural Wales.

 

[Serif]

The Toymaker is a malevolent being that cynically mocks humanity, I wouldn't take anything he says at face value indicative of the writer's thoughts.

 

[Ashes of Dreams]

People really need to stop thinking every single thing a character says is what the author thinks. The Toymaker is a villain and has a cynical view of humanity. He isn't RTD's self-insert any more than The Master or Davros were, come on.

 

[GulAtiCa]

That was so weird and creepy. I really enjoyed it.

 

[Nikus]

And then Ruby stepped on the butterfly in space babies.

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Just rewatched the start of Devil's Chord to see if there's any stepping going on. I guess they step all over the Abbey Road zebra crossing? Otherwise no. Still, all these blundering steps can't be a coincidence.

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Going back to this, it may be nothing but I keep thinking about how it basically all started with the line of salt in Wild Blue Yonder. Something that malevolent spirits cannot cross/step over. I love how eerie it felt at the end: "I wish I hadn't done that thing with the salt. I invoked something at the end of the universe, where the walls are thin and all things are possible. I've just got this feeling..."
And the ripples of that eeriness are felt all the way through 73 Yards. Butterfly effect.
Now we've seen the heroes unknowingly take steps while being careless that had bad repercussions, the last one literally being stepping on a superstition.

Spoiler

What if the twist at the end is Susan telling the Doctor "actually, I'm your step-granddaughter" *winks at camera*
I'm kidding

But honestly even if we're overanalyzing stuff that turns out to be meaningless, it's just fun to have the show in a place that is once again exciting and rich enough to allow us to do this.
All of this, and people discussing about the time gaps between episodes, the 4th wall breaks and potential meta aspects, my theory (and others') that Ruby is like a slingshot through time, being extra-anchored to a point in time while being able to do things in the past and future, the theories around Susan Twist and the Doctor's family, the utter confusion and frustration of some regarding the rules in some of these eps... It's all good, quality fun to me and I'm glad this thread has managed to remain more healthy than others where opinions about certain franchises clash so hard that it makes all the discussions miserable.
... anywho, it's good to be back.

 

[Radiophonic]

Finally was able to watch the last two episodes. Both were far more enjoyable than the first two, but neither worked as a whole for me. Boom wasn't great, but I was generally with it until the power of love makes magic happen. 73 Yards has vibes galore and that almost carries it across the finish line, but too much is left unexplained to be satisfying, at least for me. But it has been by miles the most watchable and interesting episode.

 

[Shoeless]

Indeed. Odd is definitely the right way to describe many of the decisions the BBC make in regard to home media.

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This does make me wonder, would the BBC even still be responsible for authoring and distributing Dr. Who physical media going forward? Like Disney has shot this in 4K/HDR, although it's in 5.1, not Dolby Atmos, so would they put out the discs going forward? They've already done it for some Marvel and Star Wars stuff, like Loki and Mandalorian in 4K.

 

[apocat]

Dot and Bubble does look kind of cheesy, but since the idea of the episode has apparently been around forever, I'm going to assume it has to have some merit.

 

[Multievolution]

So, I think I've figured out Ruby's identity, apologies if this has come up before, I haven't read the whole thread.

Spoiler mentions a season 2 rumour for those who don't want to be spoiled.

With this latest episode, I think she's a relative of the toy maker. First and foremost, we see the doctor disappear as if he just vanished, we see everyone run in fear, as though her older self has the ability to warp reality itself, and we see that whoever dropped her off is no normal person, they have powers that transcend even memories. Add onto it that snow appears as though her own existence isn't normal, I feel like it's very likely. This season definitely has strong ties to the specials, and that's on purpose, it did feel odd to go from toy maker to Ruby somehow, and it would explain why she's not with the Doctor in season 2 if the rumours are to be believed

 

[SinnyIndonesian]

It's been getting better as the episodes go, but ever since Space Babies there's this feeling that the pacing is way, way off, and episodes are missing a number of scenes to make everything more coherent and cohesive. Space Babies and the Devil's Chord were the worst examples of this, while Boom and 73 Yards feel like they're just missing one or two more scenes to let the story breathe.

This, coupled with the shorter episode count per season, makes the whole thing feels kinda too messy and frantic to me. I don't know what's wrong, the specials didn't feel this way. I don't feel like I'm really getting new Who--just snippets and promises of one eventually.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

It's been getting better as the episodes go, but ever since Space Babies there's this feeling that the pacing is way, way off, and episodes are missing a number of scenes to make everything more coherent and cohesive. Space Babies and the Devil's Chord were the worst examples of this, while Boom and 73 Yards feel like they're just missing one or two more scenes to let the story breathe.

This, coupled with the shorter episode count per season, makes the whole thing feels kinda too messy and frantic to me. I don't know what's wrong, the specials didn't feel this way. I don't feel like I'm really getting new Who--just snippets and promises of one eventually.

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I think the reason it didn't feel that way is because we already knew Tennant and Tate, so the episodes didn't have as much lifting to do. We're HALFWAY through this season already and we're still learning basic aspects of Fifteen and Ruby's characters and their relationship to each other, and that's why it feels so dizzying.

 

[Ashes of Dreams]

Regardless of how I feel about the season overall at the end of it, I will remain adamant that the decrease from 12 episodes to 8 has been to the show's detriment. I really feel like we needed those four episodes, preferably all in the first half of the season, and ideally written by other/guest writers. When you look back at all the best seasons of Doctor Who, that's how they worked. After the season openers we had some episodes that just established the adventure and characters. We have variety in the writing style. And so on. Note I'm not saying we need FILLER necessarily because I do think the episodes should contribute to the characters and overall thematic narrative. What we need are episodes like Dalek, Father's Day, The Impossible Planet, Human Nature, Planet of the Ood, Vampires of Venice, etc.

Anyway, obviously what I'm saying is just "it needs more good episodes", but it's a specific TYPE of good episode that I think is lacking here. And it's probably help with the weird rushed yet inconsistent familiarity between the Doctor and Ruby. Plus it may actually give the Doctor a chance to do more stuff.

 

[Charismagik]

Got caught up to the latest episode. First 2 were utter trash, but boom wasn't too bad, and 73 yards was amazing. Give me whole seasons of that, please. Was really odd to already have an MIA doctor episode with the season already being short

 

[OneTrueJack]

Space Babies - Ruby steps on a butterfly
Devil's Chord - The Doctor and Ruby step on Abbey Road crossing
Boom - The Doctor steps on a landmine
73 Yards - The Doctor steps on a fae circle

Prediction: Since fairytales are real now, this is all leading up to the finale where Ruby will step on a crack and breaks her mother's back.

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

Space Babies - Ruby steps on a butterfly
Devil's Chord - The Doctor and Ruby step on Abbey Road crossing
Boom - The Doctor steps on a landmine
73 Yards - The Doctor steps on a fae circle

Prediction: Since fairytales are real now, this is all leading up to the finale where Ruby will step on a crack and breaks her mother's back.

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And since her mother will be connected to the Dalek-CyberLord hivemind, this will defeat all of the Doctor's enemies simultaneously

 

[OneTrueJack]

And since her mother will be connected to the Dalek-CyberLord hivemind, this will defeat all of the Doctor's enemies simultaneously

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As outlined in the Cartmel Masterplan, yes.

 

[Arn]

Been away from Doctor Who for a while but I'm really enjoying this season. 73 Yards was fucking superb and one of the best Doctor Who episodes I can remember, although I'm not surprised to see some people frustrated with the lack of concrete answers. I really don't think it needed it and thought the fear of abandonment was a clear enough glue for everything else to hold together. I'm also pretty certain we're not done with the ramifications of the episode, would expect it to come back near the finale.

Has there been any discussion around the older lady that keeps appearing, who lives next-door to Ruby in her original timeline?

 

[Guppeth]

Has there been any discussion around the older lady that keeps appearing, who lives next-door to Ruby in her original timeline?

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I'm increasingly sure she's Susan. If so, Anita Dobson is a great bit of casting and I hope she sticks around a while.

 

[Nikus]

Has there been any discussion around the older lady that keeps appearing, who lives next-door to Ruby in her original timeline?

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Yes, a lot.
The main theory being that it's Susan, the Doctor's granddaughter. It may seem too obvious what with the actress' name literally being Susan Twist, but with all the meta aspects going on... we'll see.

 

[Guppeth]

Yes, a lot.
The main theory being that it's Susan, the Doctor's granddaughter. It may seem too obvious what with the actress' name literally being Susan Twist, but with all the meta aspects going on... we'll see.

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Susan Twist doesn't play Ruby's neighbour, she plays the woman who keeps appearing all over time and space.

 

[apocat]

I suspect that Susan Twists constant appearances are more of a meta-clue rather than something tied to the plot. There's always a twist at the end. A Susan-twist.

 

[Soap]

And since her mother will be connected to the Dalek-CyberLord hivemind, this will defeat all of the Doctor's enemies simultaneously

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I found it pretty funny when watching the Boom commentary when RTD says The Doctor will always just end up fighting the Daleks so nothing matters anyway… I do wonder if they are going to chill-out on the Daleks for a bit to try and make them an actual threat again.

 

[Nikus]

Susan Twist doesn't play Ruby's neighbour, she plays the woman who keeps appearing all over time and space.

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Ah right. But also, Time Lords and Ladies can have different faces :p

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Ah right. But also, Time Lords and Ladies can have different faces :p

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I don't think they'd have Susan in disguise as two separate characters who both appear in the same episode together - twice. It's just way too messy.

I could easily see Mrs. Flood knowing more than we think but I think Susan Twist is just a name they couldn't pass up and so they're using her face across time and space for a meta-joke.

 

[Guppeth]

Ah right. But also, Time Lords and Ladies can have different faces :p

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So you think they're both Susan? That would be kinda interesting.

(All Time Lords are Time Lords btw. They used Time Lady once or twice for Romana in the 1980s but quickly dropped the idea)

I don't think they'd have Susan in disguise as two separate characters who both appear in the same episode together - twice. It's just way too messy.

I could easily see Mrs. Flood knowing more than we think but I think Susan Twist is just a name they couldn't pass up and so they're using her face across time and space.

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Susan Twist is the Rani. Then the Susan twist will be that the Rani was always a later incarnation of Susan. Then the Susan twist twist will be that Mrs Flood is an even later incarnation of Susan after she got the Rani-ness out of her system.

 

[TheGummyBear]

Got caught up to the latest episode. First 2 were utter trash, but boom wasn't too bad, and 73 yards was amazing. Give me whole seasons of that, please. Was really odd to already have an MIA doctor episode with the season already being short

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Honestly, Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson have been carrying what's been the most awkward start to a new Doctor Who era in, well, arguably the show's history.

Church on Ruby Road wasn't great, but Christmas Specials tend to be sillier and more twee, but Ncuti's first two episodes were absolutely dire. His first episode proper had a snot alien and a farting spaceship.

Throw in how the bigeneration inherently robs some of the lime light from Ncuti, despite how Doctor Who should now be his show while he is in the lead, and it just feels like a really bad fumble to the start of an era with a really great lead actor.

So it was definitely odd to have a doctor-lite episode so soon. And what appears to be another one next week.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

So it was definitely odd to have a doctor-lite episode so soon. And what appears to be another one next week.

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From what I've heard, 73 Yards was the first episode they shot for the Gatwa era, entirely because Ncuti wasn't available yet due to filming commitments on Sex Ed. Dot and Bubble (next week's episode) was shot right after this one (and before Ruby Road in the production order), so it stands to reason the same issue might apply there.

One of those annoying realities of TV production rearing its ugly head in the worst way. They basically got him in for the Giggle, then continued working on the rest of Tennant's stuff (WBY shot last, as well as the promotional short on Skaro) while Ncuti was working on Sex Ed, and Ruby Road was the third episode they shot once Ncuti became fully available.

 

[Aprikurt]

So you think they're both Susan? That would be kinda interesting.

(All Time Lords are Time Lords btw. They used Time Lady once or twice for Romana in the 1980s but quickly dropped the idea)



Susan Twist is the Rani. Then the Susan twist will be that the Rani was always a later incarnation of Susan. Then the Susan twist twist will be that Mrs Flood is an even later incarnation of Susan after she got the Rani-ness out of her system.

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Bigenerated Susan...?

 

[Guppeth]

Bigenerated Susan...?

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Yes! Loads of bigenerated Time Lords showing up. Tennant's bigeneration has opened the floodgates.

 

[Guppeth]

Let's have five Masters at once, fuck it.

 

[Kalor]

Five Masters with 5 times the sexual tension.

 

[mclem]

I suspect that Susan Twists constant appearances are more of a meta-clue rather than something tied to the plot. There's always a twist at the end. A Susan-twist.

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The thing that fascinates me about Susan Twist's characters is that while she's always in the story, she's not always interacting with the cast and when she does interact with them, there's no mystery to her role, she appears to be exactly the character she is - I can't reconcile "Mysterious entity following the Doctor and Ruby through time and space" with "hiker who goes up to the Follower and runs off screaming".

One thought has just struck me, and while it's speculation I like it enough to spoiler the theory: I was wondering if it is actually a perception filter thing - it does feel like the filter's been mentioned a lot, although maybe that was just within 73 yards - so whatever the person *actually* looks like, we're seeing Susan Twist because the perception filter is affecting what we see. While I *don't* think it's this, imagine if it was something akin to more reflections of Clara in the Doctor's timeline, being disguised by the Tardis to protect the Doc

 

[PlanetSmasher]

The thing that fascinates me about Susan Twist's characters is that while she's always in the story, she's not always interacting with the cast and when she does interact with them, there's no mystery to her role, she appears to be exactly the character she is - I can't reconcile "Mysterious entity following the Doctor and Ruby through time and space" with "hiker who goes up to the Follower and runs off screaming".

One thought has just struck me, and while it's speculation I like it enough to spoiler the theory: I was wondering if it is actually a perception filter thing - it does feel like the filter's been mentioned a lot, although maybe that was just within 73 yards - so whatever the person *actually* looks like, we're seeing Susan Twist because the perception filter is affecting what we see. While I *don't* think it's this, imagine if it was something akin to more reflections of Clara in the Doctor's timeline, being disguised by the Tardis to protect the Doc

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Yeah. The Doctor has only interacted with her once and he didn't engage with her as anything other than the "face" of the Villengard machine she was displayed on. In all of her other appearances, she interacts exclusively with Ruby or (in WBY and Space Babies) side characters. Which makes it extremely unlikely in my mind that she is connected to the Doctor.

I just don't think she's important herself. She exists as a meta-gag moreso than a specific character recurring over and over again in 6 episodes thus far.

 

[Guppeth]

The thing that fascinates me about Susan Twist's characters is that while she's always in the story, she's not always interacting with the cast and when she does interact with them, there's no mystery to her role, she appears to be exactly the character she is - I can't reconcile "Mysterious entity following the Doctor and Ruby through time and space" with "hiker who goes up to the Follower and runs off screaming".

One thought has just struck me, and while it's speculation I like it enough to spoiler the theory: I was wondering if it is actually a perception filter thing - it does feel like the filter's been mentioned a lot, although maybe that was just within 73 yards - so whatever the person *actually* looks like, we're seeing Susan Twist because the perception filter is affecting what we see. While I *don't* think it's this, imagine if it was something akin to more reflections of Clara in the Doctor's timeline, being disguised by the Tardis to protect the Doc

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It's interesting that the one time a main character has recognised Susan Twist is in a timeline that's now erased.

 

[Arn]

I'm increasingly sure she's Susan. If so, Anita Dobson is a great bit of casting and I hope she sticks around a while.

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Yes, a lot.
The main theory being that it's Susan, the Doctor's granddaughter. It may seem too obvious what with the actress' name literally being Susan Twist, but with all the meta aspects going on... we'll see.

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I actually had no idea that the person next door wasn't the recurring Susan Twist. The granddaughter thing is interesting given the Doctor referred to his granddaughter recently (I believe).

 

[TheGummyBear]

I actually had no idea that the person next door wasn't the recurring Susan Twist. The granddaughter thing is interesting given the Doctor referred to his granddaughter recently (I believe).

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To be fair, she's the first person of the new era to break the fourth wall. So it's an easy mistake to make, as there's importance implied.

My big worry is the theory that Ruby is the Doctor's biological daughter is true, and that's why they're going all in on the shared orphan angle and talking a lot about the Doctor's family.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

To be fair, she's the first person of the new era to break the fourth wall. So it's an easy mistake to make, as there's importance implied.

My big worry is the theory that Ruby is the Doctor's biological daughter is true, and that's why they're going all in on the shared orphan angle and talking a lot about the Doctor's family.

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I don't think we have to worry about this rumor, thankfully. I just can't see Russell doing that as his first big twist. The Doctor also not knowing about it would make them seem so stupid it would frankly break the whole show. "I had a daughter and then abandoned her and then FORGOT I had a daughter and abandoned her and then found her again, and now we're traveling together!" is just so many levels of convolution it would be impossible to take seriously.

I think the big curiosity is the fact that Maestro is terrified of Ruby. That, combined with her ability to literally project her emotions across time and space without even realizing it, speaks to her essence being something grander and more terrifying than even the Doctor themself. Even the Doctor can't do that.