-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Donald Trump has recognized Juan Guaidó as the Interim President of Venezuela
- Thread starter poklane
- Start date
When the current "evil" is unambiguously horrific and causing an international humanitarian crisis going with option B is a no-brainer.
Sanctions are not the cause of the current situation in Venezuela whatsoever. The shitshow in the country is entirely at the hands of Chavez and Maduro.
Something I'm kinda wondering though: without the threat of something like military action to back it up, which is currently not a serious proposal from anyone as I understand it (for good reason), how is any support of Guaido not boil down to "thoughts and prayers" regardless? Not like a country saying they recognize Guaido as interim President of Venezuela does anything to actually make that happen and actually take Maduro's power away from him. At this point, it's essentially just posturing and could just as easily be described as "thoughts and prayers," saying nice things to Venezuelans that they do not support their current terrible dictator but not doing anything that will have any actual impact on whether he remains a dictator or not. It doesn't change their day-to-day lives in any way, unless they actually force his hand or some way or another. But just doing "gee willikers, wouldn't it be nice if this guy actually was interim President. Not that we're going to do anything to make that happen, but wouldn't that be nice doesn't seem to be that meaningfully different from "thoughts and prayers" beyond us just lavishing praise on the people doing "something" for some reason, despite the state of affairs not actually changing in any meaningful way as a result of these declarations. At this point, it's pure sophistry and nothing more, but getting free brownie points regardless for "doing the right thing" anyway.
Of course, this isn't to say that they should be supporting a dictator like Maduro or that they should be saying nothing at all. Far from it. Maduro needs to go, and deserves no support. But without the threat of military action to back that up (which would have its own repercussions) I'm curious what impact these words actually accomplish and how they actually further those goals in any way, since we're throwing those kinda words around.
Venezuela isn't where it is because of sanctions — sanctions which have been targeted at officials, not the country or economy as a whole, and only began in 2015 which is well after shortages in common goods like milk, flour, eggs, razors, diapers, deodorant, soap, had arose.
Also lol at the idea of this asshole calling someone "wealthy" in a country wrecked with inflation and money printing.
Boots Riley is a celebrity. If his idea is that folks with money should sit down then he should lead by example.
You hope the pressure is too much and he ends up taking an offer from Russia or Turkey for assylum
All this crazy fuckos are like if Fox News made up left crazies materialized
Meddling in the affairs of sovereign states and washing our hands of the consequences because WE have unilaterally decided what is best for citizens of another state is morally reprehensible for our country to do. We've done it for over a 100 fucking years and it fails every fucking time.
OP
OP
People defending Maduro and his government in any way are fucking hilarious and should be ashamed of themselves.
It's not an opinion but a fact that he's a dictator who's willing to change every rule in the book if it benefits him and his hold on power. He doesn't give a shit about the economy and the average Venezuelan citizen, all he cares about is his grip on power.
People also calling this a coup are simply wrong. Guaidó isn't some random politician suddenly picked by foreign governments. Guaidó was democratically elected to the National Assembly in 2015 with a 5 year term. This same National Assembly elected him as President of the National Assembly for 1 year starting on January 5th 2019, and Article 233 of the Constitution of Venezuela makes it pretty clear that the President of the National Assembly becomes the Interim President if there's no actual President for whatever reason, which there isn't as the "elections" in which Maduro was elected were a load of shit. This isn't a case of some idiot trying to overthrow the President by force, it's an elected politician who according to the Constitution is the Interim President, and that's exactly why he's getting international support.
And as an European I can only hope that our governments will soon follow suit and recognize him as the legitimate Interim President as well.
It's not an opinion but a fact that he's a dictator who's willing to change every rule in the book if it benefits him and his hold on power. He doesn't give a shit about the economy and the average Venezuelan citizen, all he cares about is his grip on power.
People also calling this a coup are simply wrong. Guaidó isn't some random politician suddenly picked by foreign governments. Guaidó was democratically elected to the National Assembly in 2015 with a 5 year term. This same National Assembly elected him as President of the National Assembly for 1 year starting on January 5th 2019, and Article 233 of the Constitution of Venezuela makes it pretty clear that the President of the National Assembly becomes the Interim President if there's no actual President for whatever reason, which there isn't as the "elections" in which Maduro was elected were a load of shit. This isn't a case of some idiot trying to overthrow the President by force, it's an elected politician who according to the Constitution is the Interim President, and that's exactly why he's getting international support.
And as an European I can only hope that our governments will soon follow suit and recognize him as the legitimate Interim President as well.
Last edited:
Making declarations of support are the bare minimum, no one is going to militarily intervene in venezuela
Yeah, Germany, Japan, Kuwait and South Korea are total failures.
What would be morally reprehensible is to continue to back a man who is driving his country into utter ruin, abandoned all democratic institutions, when an international coalition is backing an opposition leader.
If you'd rather people starve to death than betray your principles, your principles are terrible.
You don't know Trump and the GOP. Don't underestimate these animals.
The US is gonna force other south american countries to support Maduro if that happens.
Which is why most people say that Maduro isn't likely to fall, unless his military supporters defect and support Guaido, which is unlikely.
The animal is Maduro! Jesus Christ if Trump did 1/8 what Maduro has done, this forum would be in flames, yet fucking anti-Imperialist, leftist Maduro gets a pass for some dumb reason, and "muh usa bad". Fuck off with these takes.
I think Maduro is a piece of shit, but the United States hasn't no right to interfere in the affairs of a sovereign nation. Let the revolution against Maduro take its natural course, rather than trying to force it with sanctions, embargos, and military intervention.
The United States has a terrible track record in Latin America and the Global South. Ever wonder why they never went after Marcos, Pinochet, or Somoza? It's because they only intervene when there's something to gain out of it.
The tweet's kinda ignoring the fact that the poor (due to being maintained as uneducated by those interested in keeping them uneducated) can be fooled into supporting Fascist Authoritarians.
I wouldn't assume people like him him because they're stupid.
Maduro is a populist demagogue.
Like Trump.
I know little about actual Venezuela so I am unqualified to make judgments; however, at least I know my stance based on reported state of the country have a wee bit more grounded foundations than critics who mostly react based on Trump and US Imperialism keyword. It would be a different story if there are active interference, but we're talking about recognition of the government and sanctions at best.
Last edited:
I wonder if Trump refusing to remove the US diplomats will result in a Carter-esque political boondoggle.
It'd be really helpful if you could point out the people who are explicitly pro maduro.
It's easy to make holier than thou points if we misrepresent people's arguments.
Saying "hey maybe we shouldn't agitate a brewing civil war" is not supporting any one particular regime, Jesus.
Chavez gained popularity by giving a bunch of free shit and because of that people just let him do whatever in return because it was convenient for them.
What people didnt realize is that he was giving them shit from their own money namely the profits from natural resources and keeping the rest, its like I steal from you a thousand dollars , make you a gift that costs me a hundred and then I keep the rest for me and my cronies.
Urgh apparently I've been posting based on what I've read on other thread on the topic. Thank you for pointing it out.
Last edited:
There are two separate threads which is probably where the confusion's coming from https://www.resetera.com/threads/ca...pence-and-bolsonaro-backing-opposition.95295/
And yes, you have people treating Maduro's prior election as legitimate. The gaslighting hasn't stopped.
That's not totally accurate. Sanctions under Obama targeted some officials, but Trump's 2017 sanctions targeted Venezuela's oil industry. See:
https://venezuelablog.org/crude-realities-understanding-venezuelas-economic-collapse/
I have little doubt the Trump administration and many of its fleeting, bellicose trash people made it a goal to further destabilize Venezuela. The country was experiencing a real crisis before the sanctions and would still be experiencing economic troubles at present oil prices, but it also underwent a real blow in the last ~2 years that was targeted and politically motivated, not a humanitarian effort.
When a nation recognizes a gov't and doesn't recognize another, the former gets to negotiate all things a nation gets to do. The latter is worse off in that country's eyes than North Korea, who at least gets to ask for foreign aid.
Basically, these countries like the US and Canada are saying that Maduro has no standing as Venezuela's representative. He might as well be some rando calling. Guaido is the one who they'll talk to. Not Maduro. And the US alone imports 11 billion dollars of trade from Venezuela; there's a lot of money on the line for a lot of people. Dictators have power as long as the people with guns are getting paid.
Sounds like Jeff Bezos. Damn, sorry, couldn't help it. This message isn't an endorsement of political cronyism.
Year 1992: The military tries (and fails) two coups. This is where Chávez comes from and was one of the leaders. Because of this, him and many others go to jail.
Year 1994: Because of reasons, the next president pardon those military (and Chávez). The people who died on those coups, fuck them.
Year 1999: Chávez wins the elections.
Year 2000: Chávez takes advantage of popularity, tries to re-write the national constitution to his liking and success.
Year 2002: Chávez popularity drops amid corruption scandals and gets very undemocratic, a coup agains him goes without succeed
Year 2003: Chávez regulates the dollar currency on the country. You cant get dollars or any currency by legal means, actually you can go to jail for trading dollar/euros. The few dollars the goverment gives away for "food and medicine" goes to corrupt people. Price of dollar skyrocket of scarcity.
Year 2004-2010: Food scarcity goes deeper and deeper. Venezuela doesnt not produce anything but oil, everything else are imports and in the international trading system you have to pay with euros or dollars. But no one can get those so everything cost more and more, and there is less to buy from. The goverment seizes means of productions in these years, so the few that used to produce something stops doing. Chávez blames and "economic war" from the United States. Economy goes to hell.
Under this period, Chávez proposes to remove the only one term rule from the constitution to unlimited reelections on elections and the people choose No. He stills makes it happen with a decree (its illegal)
Year 2011: Chávez gets cáncer but swears its now cured from it 3 months before a new election.
Year 2012: Chávez wins a third term but guess what, he lied about being cured as he cant give up the power. Staying in power is more important than anything i guess.
Year 2013: Maduro (VP) says Chávez just died, but everybody knows he died in 2012 and they just announced it while they figured out how to keep the power. Actually Chávez was nowhere to be seen for a whole year. Maduro then is elected as the president
Year 2014: Economy was alredy shit since 2010. The price of oil went up steadily since Chávez became president in 1999 and was the main the blood of his revolution, then the oil prices plummets. Maduro doesnt have the money Chávez had, he never had popularity to begin with. Hyperinflation starts, Maduro blames "economic war"
Protests began, people died, the goverment jailed thousands including top opposition leaders.
Year 2015: Opposition wins the majority in the national assembly (congress), so they have the power to change laws.
Ok, undemocratic shit began back in the 2000 but this is where it REALLY begins:
Our Supreme Court isnt like yours, those seats doesnt last a lifetime. Everytime a new National Assembly is choosen, the NEW ONE gets to choose a new Supreme Court. The chavista National Assembly choose the next Supreme Court before going out, robbing that right from them by pure force.
That new chavista supreme court states that there was fraud in the National Assembly elections and removes 3 senators from their seats until there is a new election for these seats, removing the majority win from the opposition and barring them from having any power to modify laws. To this very day there was goverment, mayors, presidential elections and there never was that re election of said seats.
Also, our version of your Federal Election Commission is called CNE and is elected with the new Assembly, they current head of the CNE have been in that seat SINCE 2006. The opposition tries to remove and the Supreme Court blocks it.
Year 2016: Under the constitution, people can call a referendum to remove the president. They just have to hand over signs of 1% of population to go for elections to remove or confirm that the president. Its a right, Maduro and CNE blocks it.
Year 2017: The National Assembly announces a new Supreme Court (their right), the ilegal Supreme Court blocks it and removes all the power and rights from the National Assembly, making it a empty shell.
This is important, not only that Supreme Court is illegal. The National Assembly is choosen by the people, the Court doesnt. That makes the National Assembly the only "true" power because of his origin.
Maduro calls for Constituent National Assembly, the same Chávez used back then in the 2000 to rewrite the constitution. The problem is that you have to ask the people if they want to do that and after and election (if people vote yes) the process activates . Maduro didnt do any elections, he just said the new constitution goes and thats it.
Constituent National Assembly is the be all end all of the politic game, any other power surrenders to it. Even tops the Supreme Court or National Assembly. And with that power they shut down the National Assembly for good.
Year 2018: With Constituent National Assembly, Maduro calls for early elections, bans most oppostion leaders and political parties from participating on the election. He wins the presidency, again.
Year 2019: Maduro Takes the power, again.
So, since 2015, the only real power who has been elected from the people is the National Assembly.
Since all other powers, including presidency, are illegal. The constitution says that when there is no one in charge for whatever means, the president of the National Assembly must be the president and call for elections.
The president of the National Assembly is Juan Guaidó, that man who "self proclaimed" or "Trump put in there for his evil plans"
This people has been in power for over TWENTY YEARS. So i ask you sincerely:
Do you think any person, of any country of any wing be left or right, can and will stay in power legitimately for over 20 years?
A person who tried to forcefully gain the power with violence and bloodshed not once but twice?
Thank you for that write up. Unbelievable. I really hope things change for you guys. My brother in law was born there and still has family there and is heartbroken by the situation. He talks to me about it every now and then but I never understood the entire history of it.
Great post. Unfortunately, there are still some people here who will whip out the automated response that it is imperialist misinformation and propaganda.
Last edited:
Great post and thank you, I've seen some of the other posters from ERA saying they were in a safe situation. Are you in safe situation? I'm going to share this in the other thread for those that want 'Both parties in Venezuela need to work it out, or this is a Venezuela problem for them to fix'
Yes, i moved to Chile about a year ago. Sadly cant get my parents over here but i send them money so they can eat.
Don't go to the other thread, not many allies/friends. Many just want to wring their hands about 'US Imperialism' as many die.
Ok, i will stay away from there. Currently im too emotionaly unstable to deal with people telling me the USA is bad when my mom had an stroke years ago because we couldnt find their medication for the heart, while they say stupid things from the safe of democracy and economic prosperity.