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Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
- That's a hell of an excuse.

- Well if only we were shown any kind of training like in Z there wouldn't be a problem. There wasn't.

-Why is Krillin goes toe to toe with Blue a thing?

The scene is right here


The dialogue and the meaning of the scene is very fucking clear.

How can anyone be so dense to not get that Goku is testing Krillin? Is character interactions really that hard?

How in the world is that going toe to toe?



This is how you give Roshi love without making your new threat look like a joke.



Look. Character and Emotion. Not just power numbers.

Roshi saying Goku is a bad student after Goku has been portrayed as a genius who dominated all of his Masters lessons and has been constantly praised for it is just dumb.


Thats a shitty intepretation. Roshi is saying Goku is a bad student as he has neglected all the core lessons of Martial Art, because he has been obssessed with just trying to 1-up his opponents by increasing power level. Learning skills in a short time doesn't mean he is a great student.
 

Amnesty

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,686
Huh? The series wasn't the Goku and Vegeta show until the Buu Arc. That's the very first time it fell back onto only them being able to save the day.
It wasn't even them that were able to save the day though. Goku needed Satan and the people of earth for his Genki Dama to be effective. Vegeta got pulverized. They both would have been done for without Satan and everyone else. That was kinda the point, of the end and of the whole arc really. No one thing was enough to deal with Buu, either because of people like Gohan being arrogant and sloppy, Gotenks being immature, humans triggering Fat Buu and ruining Mr. Satan's work, or whatever. That's kind of what I liked about the Buu arc, in the end, and throughout, it wasn't about being the strongest individual.
 

brinstar

User requested ban
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,275
Thats a shitty intepretation. Roshi is saying Goku is a bad student as he has neglected all the core lessons of Martial Art, because he has been obssessed with just trying to 1-up his opponents by increasing power level. Learning skills in a short time doesn't mean he is a great student.

He was basically considered a martial arts god in the original series and close to reaching enlightenment after his training with the gods and such. Remember when he straight up learned telepathy on his own?

Goku was the guy who instantly realized the bulky SS form was useless when more level-headed guys like Trunks and Gohan didn't get it at all.
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,853
I like the idea that Ultra Instinct isn't some otherworldly form that you have to achieve, but at the same time I acknowledge that Roshi being able to dodge ANYTHING from Jiren is stupid, and that if it was just about reaction time, Goku should have picked up on it by now.
 
OP
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Fj0823

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,664
Costa Rica
Toyotaro gracing us with his "talents" once more

47574761_1788742284586597_3179843032606310400_n.jpg


47384084_1788722734588552_7555506167028383744_n.jpg
 

Error404

Member
Oct 29, 2017
112
I've said it before, but Toyotaro is a hack. Blatantly copies art, his plot points make zero sense. I hate that he's being handed the reins for Dragon Ball because I've hated nearly everything he's injected into the series since he started. Get this guy outta here, and please let the Dragon Room have more control over what happens in the manga now. Otherwise it's going to be a total shitshow.
 

Geldboom

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,266
Come on, I get that shitting on Toyo is a fun thing to do.

But that cover is perfectly fine, and doing a variant cover isn't a crime.
Tracing your own work is totally fine here.
 
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Fj0823

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,664
Costa Rica
Come on, I get that shitting on Toyo is a fun thing to do.

But that cover is perfectly fine, and doing a variant cover isn't a crime.
Tracing your own work is totally fine here.

TBH it would be fine for every other artist. But the amount of tracing on Toyo's record just makes this hilarious
 

Geldboom

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,266
TBH it would be fine for every other artist. But the amount of tracing on Toyo's record just makes this hilarious

But it's just Gohan's arms tho, like come on.
It's his own cover, he redrew Videl and Gohan's face..

It's an variant cover.... Like, there is nothing wrong here.

Shit on him when its deserved.
 

Nightbird

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,780
Germany
Master Roshi having ultra instinct is nonsense, but if we're being frank, the power scaling in Dragon Ball Super is complete nonsense as well. So it's hardly that egregious in a magical cartoon world that can't even stick to its own rules.

Even as someone who shits on powerlevels every time I have the occasion to do so, this is just too much.

When DragonBall usually throws power scaling out of the window it's in order to have a much more dramatic moment. This falls flat here, since it's not dramatic, it's head-scratching.

Ultra Instinct is supposed to be a thing that even the most powerful and most experienced deities of the galaxy weren't able to do properly, and now you're telling me that the old dude who spend more than a third of his extended lifespan to perv on woman is on the same level?

Yeah, powerlevels aside, this is BS.
I get the idea of having Roshi understand the concept of it and even trying to apply it. But to actually pull it off against Jiren of all people is just too much. If it was someone weaker it would lessen the blow, but we're talking about someone who could easily defeat a man who uses time for fighting.
That's just too much of a stretch.
 

Liquor

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,715
Arguing in favor of Roshi dodging Jiren is so perplexing to me. Glad to see Im not the only one that calls that crap BS.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,378
Goku was the guy who instantly realized the bulky SS form was useless when more level-headed guys like Trunks and Gohan didn't get it at all.

He also destroyed his own body by using Kaioken x 20 against Freeza when his body couldn't handle it. And did the same thing against Vegeta with Kaioken x3 and x4. He also somehow used SSJ3 in the Buu Saga without noticing that it was draining him until he couldn't even keep the form up anymore. It's just that in those moments the narrative never portrayed it as a flaw or wrong choice from Goku, but those events still happened.

I get the idea of having Roshi understand the concept of it and even trying to apply it. But to actually pull it off against Jiren of all people is just too much. If it was someone weaker it would lessen the blow, but we're talking about someone who could easily defeat a man who uses time for fighting.

Keep in mind that in the manga Hit's ability is outright stated to be ineffective against people with higher power. It's not like in the anime where they leave it ambiguous and show it still working but somehow still broken through. Still, Roshi suddenly fighting anywhere close to that level did come out of nowhere - even in the tournament itself previously he was completely outmatched by Frost alongside Tenshinhan (although he claimed he still could do better, which might have been intended at foreshadowing his almost-Ultra Instinct, but if so it was badly done).
 
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Lagamorph

Wrong About Chicken
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,355
Ok so I'll admit I'm not too far in either way.
With the manga I'm in the middle of the Goku Black arc, and with the anime I'm only just past the Universe 6/7 tournament, but so far....why exactly are people saying the anime is great and the manga is terrible?

For me it's been the opposite so far, if for no other reason than the manga didn't cheap out by needlessly re-treading the Battle of Gods and Resurrection of F movies, and doing a far worse job of telling the stories than the movies did, but also because the manga didn't have this god awful Superhuman water shite. This is like.....Garlic Jr levels of awful.
 

Skeeter49

I wish Jim Ryan would eat me
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,297
Ok so I'll admit I'm not too far in either way.
With the manga I'm in the middle of the Goku Black arc, and with the anime I'm only just past the Universe 6/7 tournament, but so far....why exactly are people saying the anime is great and the manga is terrible?

For me it's been the opposite so far, if for no other reason than the manga didn't cheap out by needlessly re-treading the Battle of Gods and Resurrection of F movies, and doing a far worse job of telling the stories than the movies did, but also because the manga didn't have this god awful Superhuman water shite. This is like.....Garlic Jr levels of awful.
We don't really compare the anime and manga pre U6 arc, since like you said, the manga doesn't cover them, so there's nothing to compare.

I think most people like both iterations of the U6 tournament, but a lot of people didn't like SSG returning in the manga and thought SSB Kaioken X 10 was cooler than what the manga did in the Hit vs. Goku fight.

I'd say people's biggest issue with the FT arc, but I'll wait until you catch up, because I don't want to spoil anything. There's an audience for the FT anime and manga.

The arc after FT is where the fanbase of the manga seemed to take a hit. While the anime was debatabley getting better and better with that arc.

Superhuman water arc is harmless to be honest. It's a short filler arc, that doesn't overstay it's welcome, and gives Goten and Trunks something. It's bad, but there's more offensive DB filler out there.