Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 27, 2017
773
I don't feel like there's anything wrong with sitting out on a game release because there's problematical people involved or profiting.
Then you should just sit out on everything, gurantee you some shit people are involved with any big project most of the time. It's a pointless endeavor to me, calling out Square publicly and making it vocal that they should dump this guy seems more effective and with no innocents getting punished.
 
Oct 27, 2017
773
People are free to boycott and speak with their dollars if they want. I didn't purchase Shadow Complex because of it's association with Orson Scott Card. I knew full well that the game was made by dozens of people who don't share his views. No one is lumping all the DQ staff with this guy. But if they lose some sales because of this guy, that is a consequence of this guy's actions and beliefs, not a the people boycotting.
What did OSC do?
 

Dreamboum

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,031
My Dragon Quest wishlist as Sugiyama is cancelled.



  • Kazuhiko Toyama who made some great orchestral pieces like the ending credit of Crisis Core


  • Literally anyone facerolling in front of a synth
 

gordofredito

Banned
Jan 16, 2018
2,992
Tell that to all the LGTBI people that keeps suffering while we go all "we should just ignore it". How easy to say...
Ignoring problems don't make them go away. Active response is best in my experience.
Leaving them alone just allows them to gather with their like-minded peers and fester until they get even worse.
I feel like my attempts to deflate the situation haven't really helped so I'll just skedaddle outta this thread before I say something worse by accident lmao
giphy.webp
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,017
Canada
Then you should just sit out on everything, gurantee you some shit people are involved with any big project most of the time. It's a pointless endeavor to me, calling out Square publicly and making it vocal that they should dump this guy seems more effective and with no innocents getting punished.
This guy in particular is causing measurable harm.

Also I don't believe people need to be 100% consistent. Demanding that someone boycott everything or boycott nothing is a worthless argument.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
The fact that the video was posted in November is even more damning honestly, it means Square-Enix internally ignored it back when they could have actually fixed things. I really hope SE's higher-ups don't harbor any similar feelings.
 

Antitype

Member
Oct 27, 2017
439
That dude is really a garbage human being, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if someday we learn he's also racist to top it all off.
 
Oct 29, 2017
5,354
Then you should just sit out on everything, gurantee you some shit people are involved with any big project most of the time. It's a pointless endeavor to me, calling out Square publicly and making it vocal that they should dump this guy seems more effective and with no innocents getting punished.

Sugiyama is extremely prominent in the series and an activist of his shitty views in Japan. Nobody cares if QA Tester #381 is homophobic lmao
 

YuriCloud3

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
443
Well I just don't understand how personal views of a staff member - that don't find any way in the game - can influence the decision to buy a game or not. Especially when out of one idiot there s many good people which ideas and ideals might be different and deserve support. U don't buy a game to damage an idiot and in return u maybe damage tons of good minded people that worked hard on this game? Sorry but I can't agree. I'll buy the game day one with the same enthusiasm and I don't care if this old man ideas out of the game find fertile grounds. Japan is a strong democracy and they have their own laws. If they find the man is committing crimes with his deeds they will persecute him righteously. Im interested as a player in the game and what the game has to say. That's my interest in this story.
I agree with this on the part the rest of the team don't need to suffer for one man's opinion That's insane I'm my point of view. Make a petition. Flood SE mail box asking him to leave. But boycotting a game because one dude is not the right way to do it for me
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
That dude is really a garbage human being, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if someday we learn he's also racist to top it all off.

He's a Japanese nationalist who is actively trying to retcon the Raping of Nanking so it would be surprising if he wasn't a racist piece of shit, if anything.
 

Jorgie

Member
Mar 28, 2018
413
Philadelphia
Ignoring racist, homophobic, and highly problematic public figures does nothing but allows them to continue to cause harm to people. Also having a "separate the art from the artist" mentality is so shit. "I don't agree with what he said but I will continue to support their projects, give them money, and all around keeping them employed and spewing their hateful speech to the GP".
 

qq more

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,782
I agree with this on the part the rest of the team don't need to suffer for one man's opinion That's insane I'm my point of view. Make a petition. Flood SE mail box asking him to leave. But boycotting a game because one dude is not the right way to do it for me
...How is it insane to not wanting to buy a game because of a prominent hateful person? Is the concept really hard to grasp or what?
 

T.Slothrop

Member
Jan 21, 2018
176
I'm still buying it. If the product he was working on was reflective of his views I wouldn't buy it. But it's not and never has been, so I have no problem supporting this game.
 

Death Penalty

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,333
I agree with this on the part the rest of the team don't need to suffer for one man's opinion That's insane I'm my point of view. Make a petition. Flood SE mail box asking him to leave. But boycotting a game because one dude is not the right way to do it for me
This has been stated repeatedly, but this isn't just any "one dude". This is Sugiyama who has gained fame, influence and wealth from his work on the Dragon Quest series and has a massive personal stake in it. As a big representative of the series, he's more of an issue that most of the staff could possibly be individually and he wields far more power.
 

Antitype

Member
Oct 27, 2017
439
I mean he denies Japanese war atrocities committed to other nations. It's pretty much implied that he's racist.

He's a Japanese nationalist who is actively trying to retcon the Raping of Nanking so it would be surprising if he wasn't a racist piece of shit, if anything.

We already know he's racist. He definitely does not care for the Chinese WW2 victims.

I wouldn't necessarily equate war crime denier as being racist, it at least suggest he's strongly/ultra nationalist. Doesn't mean he's not racist, but personally I need more evidence before labeling him as such.
 

hibikase

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,820
Then you should just sit out on everything, gurantee you some shit people are involved with any big project most of the time. It's a pointless endeavor to me, calling out Square publicly and making it vocal that they should dump this guy seems more effective and with no innocents getting punished.

This is always a stupid argument because there's a clear difference between a hateful person being relatively famous and using that influence as a platform to spread his hatred, and a hateful person that is unknown and keeps to themself.
 

YuriCloud3

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
443
...How is it insane to not wanting to buy a game because of a prominent hateful person? Is the concept really hard to grasp or what?
As I said. He not worked alone on the game. So boycotting something for one guy for me is too extreme. There's better ways to get rid of him from his job. If that's what the majority in this thread want
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,801

That was a big sticking point for me. Because he was spending money on anti-gay marriage efforts, I had concerns that my own money would be used. Which is why I didn't purchase Shadow Complex. Sure it's likely that Card got paid a specific amount regardless of sales and I am sure there were tons of people on that team that didn't support this views, but I couldn't support the game in the end.
 

Raven117

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,112
That junior account suicide....my goodness.

Like everything, each individual considering purchasing DQ11 must make a determination of whether to buy this game on a host of other factors. Its up to everyone to make a determination of whether to buy this game due to one person's views (the composer). This was not unlike Kingdom Come Deliverance earlier this year.
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,579
I've seen people in this thread and around the internet saying "fuck DQ, fuck who makes them". People are reactionary and see that a guy involved in the DQ development is a bigot therefore DQ devs are bigots. That scorched Earth strategy is stupid.

can you point me to all these posts labeling the entire dragon quest developer team as just as homophobic as sugiyama?
 

qq more

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,782
As I said. He not worked alone on the game. So boycotting something for one guy for me is too extreme. There's better ways to get rid of him from his job. If that's what the majority in this thread want
He's a prominent figure of the staff. It's honestly not that extreme. He's not just some person. If you wanna support the game, go ahead. But at least try to understand where people are coming from before you write them off as "extreme". Thanks.

can you point me to all these posts labeling the entire dragon quest developer team as just as homophobic as sugiyama?
I'd love to know too. At least every post I've seen is directed at Sugiyama, not the entire team
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
Guess I'll buy the game used. You're lucky this man's a bigot, Gamestop! Squeenix needs to convince this dude it's time to retire. Has anyone actually brought this to Square Enix's attention in a manner in which the company is forced to confront the situation? One could write a letter or something, but who would you even send it to?
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,801
I wouldn't necessarily equate war crime denier as being racist, it at least suggest he's strongly/ultra nationalist. Doesn't mean he's not racist, but personally I need more evidence before labeling him as such.

Denying the crimes of a nationalist (i.e. racist) government that set out to conquer and subjugate other Asian countries is pretty racist. The evidence is punching you right in the face.
 

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,518
...How is it insane to not wanting to buy a game because of a prominent hateful person? Is the concept really hard to grasp or what?
The weirdest thing is the way that almost defaults to the idea that everyone's is going to buy this game.

There are so many games coming out alongside DQXI, theres so many other options. People don't buy games for all sorts of reasons, but more importantly most people don't buy a specific game for no reason whatsoever.

Like, I've never bought any Dragon Quest games. But I've never had any reason for doing that, it's just never something I've bought. And that, unless you're an insane person, should be perfectly fine.

But the idea that somebody doesn't want to buy this game because they don't want to support Sugiyama is somehow bad? At that point it somehow becomes a 'punishment' to the rest of the dev team?

Not buying a game is not a big deal. It's not unfair. It's not mean. It's the default.

People need to stop trying to make the people who aren't comfortable buying this game out to be the bad guys.
 
Oct 27, 2017
773
This is always a stupid argument because there's a difference between a hateful person being relatively famous and using that influence as a platform to be vocal about his opinions in public, and a hateful person who remains unknown and keeps to themself.
Is a quiet bigot any less awful? I don't see your point. This shit happens retroactively even where something someone previously enjoyed *shock* had a shitty person involved and then they act like they never enjoyed it and it wasn't even good. It's disengenious. You can like things that have bad people involved. You have to if you want to enjoy anything in life.
 

Menx64

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,774
The switch delay was pushing me. But since Sugiyama is still making money out of DQ, I wont buy this game or any other DQ while he is alive or change his ways.
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,081
I love how, yet again, not buying something means you're punishing the entire team

What the fuck kinda logic is that
 

Deleted member 14377

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
Anyone boycotting DQ because of this scumbag is dumb. As if the 1 man means all the other people that worked hard on the game deserve to be shit on. This dude can rot but don't let his garbage beliefs lead to you lumping all the DQ devs with him.

Yeah I'm dumb for not wanting to support a studio/game that chooses to associate itself with a war crime denier who is also anti LGBT. Got ya


giphy.gif
 

YuriCloud3

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
443
He's a prominent figure of the staff. It's honestly not that extreme.


I'd love to know too. At least every post I've seen is directed at Sugiyama, not the entire team
The way I see is : the game was successful in Japan. Boycotting the game instead of point fingers on petitions or other ways will just make the game to stay in Japan in the future. So the whole team deserve more than this. Things should be done right
 

silva1991

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,611
My Dragon Quest wishlist as Sugiyama is cancelled.



  • Kazuhiko Toyama who made some great orchestral pieces like the ending credit of Crisis Core


  • Literally anyone facerolling in front of a synth


He didn't work on that Dragon Quest anime? it has better music than all other DQ games.

I remember exactly when that ost played. so good.
 

Death Penalty

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,333
Is a quiet bigot any less awful? I don't see your point. This shit happens retroactively even where something someone previously enjoyed *shock* had a shitty person involved and then they act like they never enjoyed it and it wasn't even good. It's disengenious. You can like things that have bad people involved. You have to if you want to enjoy anything in life.
A quiet nobody bigot is a far lesser evil when compared to Sugiyama and his ilk, yes. I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand.

Changing your mind about the quality of something after scandal is revealed is also a separate issue and I'm not sure how it's related to a theoretical boycott based on Sugiyama. You can skip a good product if there's a good enough reason to do so.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
25,060
Is a quiet bigot any less awful? I don't see your point. This shit happens retroactively even where something someone previously enjoyed *shock* had a shitty person involved and then they act like they never enjoyed it and it wasn't even good. It's disengenious. You can like things that have bad people involved. You have to if you want to enjoy anything in life.
Yes, a quiet anonymous bigot is definitely better than a famous one who espouses their views on television and in newspaper ads.
 

Antitype

Member
Oct 27, 2017
439
Denying the crimes of a nationalist (i.e. racist) government that set out to conquer and subjugate other Asian countries is pretty racist. The evidence is punching you right in the face.

Nationalist != racist. It's not only about race it's about anything that's not your own nation, they don't discriminate based on race.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
I wouldn't necessarily equate war crime denier as being racist, it at least suggest he's strongly/ultra nationalist. Doesn't mean he's not racist, but personally I need more evidence before labeling him as such.

Is there any ultranationalism that it doesn't have a strong component of racism/Xenophobia?
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,579
How do you know? People love generalization.

they sure do

Anyone boycotting DQ because of this scumbag is dumb. As if the 1 man means all the other people that worked hard on the game deserve to be shit on. This dude can rot but don't let his garbage beliefs lead to you lumping all the DQ devs with him.

I've seen people in this thread and around the internet saying "fuck DQ, fuck who makes them". People are reactionary and see that a guy involved in the DQ development is a bigot therefore DQ devs are bigots. That scorched Earth strategy is stupid.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.