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Eddie Huang annouces that he will go vegan on Instagram to save the Amazon
- Thread starter Richiek
- Start date
Considering how easy it is to lie on Instagram and still get likes for a fake act of environmental activism, I find this hilarious.
Where does quitting beef have an effect?
Either way:
This is a great point.
At least many people might see it and it may change their minds, even if it was in bad faith.
'Not eating beef doesnt reduce beef demand.'
Is this like how buying electric cars wont help pollution?
Is this like how buying electric cars wont help pollution?
I only deal in one argument line per day and I only deal in absolutes on account of my GED Equivalency at DeVry Upstairs academy of Sith.
I think he's saying you moved the goalpost. You said individual consumer choice doesn't matter (argument #1). Then Stinkles replied because Huang is an influencer, he could influence people to follow the same healthy choices which shows that this individual choice could actually have a large effect, making your point moot. Then you said it's still impractical because many people can't afford going vegan (argument #2). Hence, moving the goalposts.
I made a claim then he made a counter claim then I countered his counter claim. I don't see how the goal posts shifted but maybe Stinkles could have said that without trying to insult my intelligence? I don't know how else to read that post until he comes back and clarifies what he actually meant.
Anyway, I don't think individuals choosing to go Vegan is going to make a dent in this problem. This is a systemic issue that is going to take systemic solutions to fix. Sure, go vegan if can but we should all be trying to collectivize and start demanding solutions politically from our governments. Going Vegan shouldn't be where people stop in this fight.
Secondly shaming people for not being able to go Vegan is a tactical misstep. Veganism is a privilege not many people can afford. Until material conditions are addressed that makes veganism achievable for people we need to be out there collectively demanding to make such conditions possible. Instead of shaming folks who probably don't even have access to grocery stores in their neighborhoods. Not to mention the issue of sustainability.
There's nothing inherently wrong with individual consumption changes to try to help, of course. But spreading the message that it will actually solve these problems is irresponsible. We have to aim higher.
I was making a light hearted joke about you changing to a different argument but here we are.
That's not how global supply and demand works. But ok, keep eating beef so you don't feel bad.
Actually, no. Being vegan is cheaper, beans, lentils, garbanzos, etc are pretty cheap. Being vegan is not the same as buying your shit in whole foods and buying beyond burgers every day.
Buying beans lentils and garbanzo beans then preparing and cooking them for a family while working two jobs and living in an urban food desert with no high school diploma, an addiction and a crime infested neighborhood is another way to think about the effects of poverty on how and what we eat.
Even education is lacking in that regard let alone time and availability.
Change needs to happen institutionally as well as individually.
That's a very specific segment of the population and almost certainly no one here on this forum. Yes those issues need to be addressed (food deserts, low income families gravitating towards meat and dairy as it's subsidized, food education, etc), but I fear that your argument could be use by someone who certainly has the means to eat vegetarian/vegan and doesn't. For a lot of the population it is cheaper and healthier. Spaghetti and mushrooms instead of spaghetti and meatballs for example.
lol Meat consumption is tied to how wealthy a country is. It is one of the biggest displays of privilege out their.
It's hard to tell sometimes. Always a good laugh when vegans get accused of consuming devastating mountains of soy: my dudes, google and find out for yourself the % of soybean meal that goes to feeding livestock. This isn't an industry that's living off vegans.
And since when do vegan burgers have palm oil in them?
The attempted gotchas are getting more and more ridiculous!
Can't tell if you are trolling or not. Although I do agree with your last statement. I assume you are from the states. Ppl there seem super afraid if eating beans and rice like it was "for mexicans and poor people". Plenty of friends go to chipotle and ask "no rice or beans". So weird.
lol Meat consumption is tied to how wealthy a country is. It is one of the biggest displays of privilege out their.
Thanks for posting this, insane how most people think otherwise
What if my family owns a completely self-sustainable dairy farm that doesn't use any outside power except for biodiesel to fuel the tractors, which is made with canola seeds we provide? And what if we use three renewable energy sources on said farm to produce power/heat for literally a thousand households?
Everyone can't do this though, it's not a solution.
And unless you eat vegan when you travel, you're still contributing to the meat industry. If people come to eat at your house you're contributing to people's demand for meat and perpetuating that.
You can't escape this. There is no way for us to eat meat that is sustainable.
Logically but not pragmatically speaking - lots of people who live in food deserts COULD make a vegan diet work - but the reality is that without better education and institutional shifts towards making those behaviors normal and desirable and beneficial we're still going to have otherwise good people making bad decisions about food because they don't have the support or information or peer and societal pressure to make those decisions work - and we'll still have fast food and junk food companies competing for their attention and time in a way that Big Lentil can't possibly catch up to. The danger is ignoring the reality a lot of poor people face and reducing the math down to the relative cost of a four pound bag of protein in a dried unprepared vegetable form and then wondering why they can't all just switch. Obviously nobody in this thread is doing that, but in a sense that's what our culture is doing through its normal cycles of capitalism and politics.
That's why something like Beyond meat at least has a scalable outcome - imagine it was eventually cheap and convincing enough that the "big mac and TV dinner" people could just buy Beyond versions of everything they already consume? Then we make some steps towards reducing reliance on meat but doing a gradual frog boiling effect rather than a seismic shift in behaviors.
The "bubu food deserts" argument doesn't work either, considering most people making them come from a place of much more privilege.
All perceived negatives with vegetarian/vegan diets are due to economic factors - availability, price, education. A person arguing that xx vegan food is too expensive is most likely contributing to the problem, by eating meat. More demand will lead to larger productions of popular substitutes like Beyond and Impossible, therefore driving the price down. Since it's much more efficient to produce plant based food vs meat, eventually these prices should fall below what meat costs. This leads to alternatives replacing the norm in fast food, in the freezer isle, in everywhere someone in a food desert might turn to.
If you are able to cut of beef, and don't, you are the problem.
All perceived negatives with vegetarian/vegan diets are due to economic factors - availability, price, education. A person arguing that xx vegan food is too expensive is most likely contributing to the problem, by eating meat. More demand will lead to larger productions of popular substitutes like Beyond and Impossible, therefore driving the price down. Since it's much more efficient to produce plant based food vs meat, eventually these prices should fall below what meat costs. This leads to alternatives replacing the norm in fast food, in the freezer isle, in everywhere someone in a food desert might turn to.
If you are able to cut of beef, and don't, you are the problem.
I waa gonna make this same argument. People think vegans eat Beyond Burgers everyday (which would be stupid because they are expensive as hell) There's dozens, if not more alternatives to meat for you that are equal or cheaper in some cases.
While this is true, I believe the basis for this thread is the Amazon burning and cutting out beef in particular in order to reduce carbon footprints.
Impossible/Beyond/and the lab grown alternatives of the future are incredibly important to our future - because they are targeted towards meat eaters. You don't convince a person who loves burgers and steaks to eat garbanzos and lentils. Instead, you need to win them with food familiar to them. They are more expensive at the moment due to smaller productions and the need to recoup RnD costs, but if we are making the argument about climate change, it's important we don't try and push people to be Vegan right away, and instead promote tasty meat alternatives. The more popular they get, the cheaper they get.
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I'm Hindu so I don't eat any beef or pork. Just eat chicken and fish. And even that is only 1-2 meals a week. Being vegetarian is difficult in the USA. If you're out and about, good luck finding vegetarian options outside of Pizza and salad.
The closest all vegetarian restaurant to me is almost a half hour away.
The closest all vegetarian restaurant to me is almost a half hour away.
Quitting meat is, and always will be, the biggest topic that regular folks will mental gymnastics themselves out of having to acknowledge. It doesn't matter how many reasonable arguments are made in favor of why quitting (or even substantially cutting down) meat makes a positive difference, so many people simply won't have any of it.
Being vegetarian is soooooooo easy if you live in a medium to large city. I live in Pittsburgh which isn't really that big at all and they are even multiple all-vegan restaurants (I believe 4) in the city limits. Vegetarian is so easy.
I'm in the greater Los Angeles area. LA has lots of vegan/vegetarian places. But I live in the suburbs in the Far East of LA. Here, there are 1-2 Indian places, and 1-2 vegan places. Some fast food places are expanding their veggie and vegan options so things are improving. But if my wife and I want gourmet vegetarian, either it's home cooked or go towards downtown.
Well, I didn't see it that way. You are right about trying to convince people to switch from meat to lentils. I hope Beyond and other brands can soon reach mass production, so people can easily switch from beef to plant-based alternatives. I made the switch 14 months ago due to health issues and I won't go back tbh.
This is still counting on individuals to change their behavior instead of enacting systemic changes through policy.
People say this, but what would this entail?
Look at how well sugar taxes go over. A beef tax would start riots lol.
All good to know, appreciated.
Although my favourite vegan burger has no palm oil in it.
I would be surprised if anyone is buying mass-produced shit-arse grocery store packaged vegan burgers, because they're all awful and expensive.
I'm spoiled for local made options in Victoria, BC at the least - hoping y'all in other cities are equally spoiled for choice.
I've flirted with vegetarianism and even veganism a bunch of times in my adult life, regardless of whether my personal choices are really the most impactful thing for the planet, I'm trying again this week at going full vegan - if anything, for my mental health and conscience.
Think of all the emissions you'll indirectly contribute when they have to bring in the cleaners to scrape your guts off the runway.
I don't really agree. The US is using less and less oil from abroad but the oil markets are still connected. If 25% of people started riding bikes instead of driving, there'd be a major economic impact even on the oil produced in other areas. If there is widespread change, it will have repercussions across the industry as a whole.
With that being said, I'm not gonna give up beef myself. I don't eat much of it though personally because my wife is a vegetarian so I don't cook it at home.
That's because "sin taxes" suck lol
I'm sure you can use your imagination and think of policy that would make veganism more achievable, make agriculture itself more sustainable, hold corporations accountable, diminish food waste, etc.
That's the thing. Riding a bike is not feasible for a lot of people. We in America built our cities for cars not for bikes. It's impossible to expect people to just not drive when conditions aren't conducive to such.
Making agriculture more sustainable just means using wasteful land used for cattle to produce vegetables/plant food. Which in turn, drives beef prices up anyway. You get the same outcome no matter what avenues you take to get there.
But veganism becomes cheaper and more widely available which is the point, no?
I take it you have lived in a city your entire life? The deer my family eats all winter does not and cannot contribute to the meat industry. The only thing it contributes to is a healthier forest through population control.
And, again, not everyone can do this. So it's not the solution to the meat industry. The only solution is not eating meat.
And, again, while I appreciate your efforts... if you ever go travelling and eat meat: contribution to meat industry.
If you have people over and serve meat: perpetuating desire to eat meat = contribution too.
You can''t avoid it unless you live in a total bubble, and, as stated, this is not a solution even if your own personal contribution is better than most.
Oh, sure, I agree. What I didn't agree with was "You can't exist outside of this if you choose to eat meat," due to it not being true. It was an overstatement. A more nuanced version along the lines of "not everyone can..." is obviously fine, and I agree.
No, you're bickering because we all know outliers in the extreme exist without the pedantic need to account for them like this.
Do the people you're talking about in your post literally never travel and eat meat while travelling? How many people actually live like that in the whole of reality?
I don't really see any need to further this argument. My point is that there are cases where eating meat doesn't match your blanket statement, and in fact, can be a part of contributing to something positive. Otherwise, as I said, I agree with your response to my first post.