Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,617
Toyota really doesn't like the idea of EVs, right? Wow


View: https://youtu.be/hXRp357Usq4


It's just a half hearted attempt at an EV by a company who hasn't done their homework. Hopefully the new CEO can turn them around quickly, but they are very far behind the industry right now. They will need to make drastic decisions and forego caution to the wind if they really want to catch up with the market.

The next few years are going to be very critical for Toyota, what they do or don't do will determine whether they survive the EV transition or go bankrupt because of it.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,104
Houston
my friend managed to snag a dealer mannequin lightning for msrp with only a few thousand miles on it a few months ago.

he texted me the other day these exact words:

Ok. So. I just got home from driving the minivan for about 10 minutes.
First off. That thing is low to the ground
Second, what the fuck is all that noise and why am I having to stop at a gas station?
Third, that screen is fucking tiny. It's barely bigger than my phone. I can't see shit backing up.
Fourth, why do I have to use both pedals?



lol i said welcome to EV fanboyism. After driving any EV driving an ICE car feels archaic. And they're like Rube Goldberg machines on wheels, its honestly a modern marvel of engineering we've gotten those things as reliable as they are.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,394
360 camera is the biggest QOL car upgrade I've experienced since I started driving for sure, EV or no EV. Never again do I have to wonder if I'm in the lines.
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,456
Germany
Finally test drove a Model Y Performance yesterday. Yeah, I'm sold. It's much bigger inside than I expected and I just love how clean it is.
The missing parking sensors are really annoying but I'm optimistic that the vision update comes sooner than later.

I'm ready for EVs. I want one
 

Darren Lamb

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,846
Yeah I wouldn't rely on standard charging. But I figured in my use case, I'd need to charge on average like 2 times per month. But good point on the in-city public chargers. I guess the Electrify America type free charging incentives I've seen are really just for highway driving.

I'm also rapidly seeing that as inriguing as the Bolt EUV is, it's likely the Volkswagen id.4 that is more realistic due to cargo space and fit/quality.

Have you checked to see the chargers that are around you on Plugshare? I spent nearly three years dropping the car off at a Chargepoint location a few minutes away on foot, and it wasn't a big deal.

I say this as someone who didn't have a good existing setup in either my rental or our condo though, we paid a ton to wire our garage after buying our place. It's a no brainer if you have an easy installation

360 camera is the biggest QOL car upgrade I've experienced since I started driving for sure, EV or no EV. Never again do I have to wonder if I'm in the lines.

My Bolt Premier has this and the backup camera that will detect traffic coming from either direction. I rely on them every time I parallel park or back out of my garage. Wish manufacturers didn't reserve them for the highest tiers!
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
Finally test drove a Model Y Performance yesterday. Yeah, I'm sold. It's much bigger inside than I expected and I just love how clean it is.
The missing parking sensors are really annoying but I'm optimistic that the vision update comes sooner than later.

I'm ready for EVs. I want one
be sure to test drive a Mach E GT before finalizing that decision. I found the interior and tech to be a better experience.

specifically the GT.
 

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,617
be sure to test drive a Mach E GT before finalizing that decision. I found the interior and tech to be a better experience.

specifically the GT.

I found the opposite. The Mustang's UI felt clunky and sluggish to me compared to the Tesla UI, plus navigation was nowhere near as nice as Tesla's. The seats in the Mustang were comfy but not as comfy as the Tesla to me, Tesla has the best seats I've ever experienced in a car, even after going several thousand mile cross country trips in my MY. Plus, that small screen in front of the steering wheel in the Mustang felt cramped to me, I vastly prefer the more Spartan interior of the Tesla.

Still, the Mustang did have a softer suspension and it drove nice.
 

Einbroch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,193
Mach E definitely has the best interior of all vehicles I drove, Lyriq aside. Admittedly I haven't sat in anything newer than ~9 months ago outside of the Lyriq. The Mach E felt plush and comfortable. Felt rich.

It definitely has problems, with the touch interface not being the best, the FordPass app being serviceable but nothing great, the car charge door being fucking awful, but it really felt like a premium ICE car aesthetically. It eventually was the deciding factor in why I went with it. Too many other EV interiors feel soul-less and cold. I like the soft cloth-like dash, the plushy door arm-rests, and lack of glossy black.
 

Trouble

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,223
Seattle-ish
Mach E definitely has the best interior of all vehicles I drove, Lyriq aside. Admittedly I haven't sat in anything newer than ~9 months ago outside of the Lyriq. The Mach E felt plush and comfortable. Felt rich.

It definitely has problems, with the touch interface not being the best, the FordPass app being serviceable but nothing great, the car charge door being fucking awful, but it really felt like a premium ICE car aesthetically. It eventually was the deciding factor in why I went with it. Too many other EV interiors feel soul-less and cold. I like the soft cloth-like dash, the plushy door arm-rests, and lack of glossy black.
The plastic, manual charge port door just feels so off in a car with every goddamned bell and whistle otherwise. It's a little thing, but I get the annoyance.

The Phone as a Key feature of the FordPass app was absolutely murdering our batteries. My wife and I both disabled bluetooth and location services for the app and that helped. It won't work as a key to drive the car, but you can still start the car remotely, open the frunk or rear hatch, roll down the windows, etc. Since Ford starting providing 2 fobs, we both just have our own for actually driving the car.

I really wanted some wood trim in my new car so I could feel like a fancy lad, but wood trim in a "Mustang" wouldn't make sense, I suppose.
 

Laephis

Member
Jun 25, 2021
2,718
The truck haters in that NJB thread are furious to see a truck owner using a truck as a truck for doing truck things
No? People generally want to see trucks being used as trucks. It's the countless ones that sit in suburban driveways with spotless, unused beds that piss people off. The fact that more EV truck owners seem to realize what they're designed for is a good thing.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,104
Houston
No? People generally want to see trucks being used as trucks. It's the countless ones that sit in suburban driveways with spotless, unused beds that piss people off. The fact that more EV truck owners seem to realize what they're designed for is a good thing.
Yea maybe. But there were also people flat out saying they shouldn't exist, period. So those are more the people I'm taking the piss of.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,104
Houston
Truck things. I wonder how we in Europe survive without these things on the streets lol
🙄
no idea, but probably sure isn't half as fun as a truck.
🤷
The miracle of the compact work van. It would be hilarious to see an F350 in Seville...
Driving around looking like a pedo van is awesome

PS how you getting 10-15ft tall trees in a van without making a ripe mess, or breaking the tree?
 
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bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,166

View: https://twitter.com/allelectricfam/status/1633936009401335809?s=20

here's the EV trailer of some of yalls dreams, only costs about the same as a small house in the mid west.

Looks reasonable. High price not that high for the category it wants to play in. Sort of a hybrid of the airstream basecamp and a traditional airstream, with a powertrain concept like the e-stream concept had.

I dislike slides, pop-ups etc. on trailers though. More moving parts means more points of failure, especially when things are getting jostled around on the road. 7500 lbs is quite heavy thanks to all the batteries too. Amazing amount of solar though, I'd love that. Current plan is likely only 400watts of solar and 300amp hours of battery on our trailer. This is a whole different animal. I like what the future looks like, but I'll be happy to see some look a touch more traditional.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,104
Houston
Looks reasonable. High price not that high for the category it wants to play in. Sort of a hybrid of the airstream basecamp and a traditional airstream, with a powertrain concept like the e-stream concept had.

I dislike slides, pop-ups etc. on trailers though. More moving parts means more points of failure, especially when things are getting jostled around on the road. 7500 lbs is quite heavy thanks to all the batteries too. Amazing amount of solar though, I'd love that. Current plan is likely only 400watts of solar and 300amp hours of battery on our trailer. This is a whole different animal. I like what the future looks like, but I'll be happy to see some look a touch more traditional.
Agreed on the moving parts. The battery is the interesting part. Supposedly one model has 80kWh batter. That's bigger than my wife's 3s battery.

It's just crazy the money for these trailers are. My wife and I have talked about getting one. But it's like, unless you want basically a second mortgage your getting a tiny ass trailer.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,190
I think I'm going to bite the bullet on a 2019 Etron off lease.

What time charger do you guys use? I plan on having it inside my garage.
 

Marshall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,026
I think I'm going to bite the bullet on a 2019 Etron off lease.

What time charger do you guys use? I plan on having it inside my garage.
First thing is to check with your electric utility company to see what charging options they have. Mine has two options of "off peak" and "time of use".

For me, Off Peak is much cheaper at $.048/kw. For this service, the EC installed a second meter outside (garage) and they actually control when juice flows through that meter into my charger. They flip it on remotely around 10:30 every night.

Time of Use is also available, but not at as steep a discount. In this scenario, you can charge any time you want, but will pay dearly if it's during peak hours of the day. Less so late evening and even less overnight.

I have a Nema plug-in style JuiceBox EVSE which suits me fine. I do regret not getting a dual plug charger though as eventually we'll have 2 EVs in the garage. So plan ahead!
 

Trouble

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,223
Seattle-ish
I think I'm going to bite the bullet on a 2019 Etron off lease.

What time charger do you guys use? I plan on having it inside my garage.
I went with a Grizzl-E classic (plugged into a 50 Amp 14-50) because my power company doesn't do variable rates and I don't care about having an app for the charger. The car tells me the charge status and notifies me when it's done, that's enough for me.

You aren't going to find a more rock solid charger for less than $400 shipped.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,835
Texas
ID.4 dealer trying to tell me that a 2022 model will still qualify for the tax credit. Everything I see says that is no longer true.

Reminder why I really dislike car shopping.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,190
Thanks all for the suggestions, probably going to bite on the Grizzl-E. And I contacted my energy provider and they're going to do a site visit to see if I need an extra meter (thanks Marshall for the advice).

I still have a Lyriq pre-ordered but I'm so fucking pissed off at Caddy for completely botching every step of this process that I'm of the mind to either cancel my pre-order or just sell it as soon as it comes in. It's a shame because I love the car but I can't justify spending 80K on a car if I can't rely on them to service it properly. And to this point my dealership doesn't seem to be competent in any fashion.
 

Einbroch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,193
Don't blame you. Cadillac fucking sucks. If the Lyriq wasn't such a home-run I'd give them the middle finger too.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,394
Those Grizzl-E chargers are supposed to be excellent against bad weather when installed outside too.
 

Venatio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,776
About to hit 10,000 miles on my Bolt EUV(2023). It's a fantastic car, and I really can't think of anything I don't like about it. Well, maybe the cargo space could be bigger. But in terms of actual driving, it's easily the best car I've owned. Oh, and definitely get the upgrade with the heated seats/wheel.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,104
Houston
Lol. That's an interesting opinion

only pickup trucks can pull a trailer as seen in the tweet above? Interesting.
Literally never said the latter.

But I did some research since you Euros love to the US what we can or can't do and hOw dO We GeT wOrK dOnE wItHoUt a TrUcK.
One of the most popular euro work vans, the Renault traffic, all models are front wheel drive, according to the Googles. It's towing capacity is ~2200 lbs. The trailer I'm pulling in those pics is ~900lbs. So the trailer + mower is pretty much at its capacity. Or the trailer + trees and soil I have it is at capacity. The front wheel drive only would get stuck on our property unless under the driest of conditions. At least two contractors, that I know of, in non 4wheel drive vehicles had to be pulled out from our property when we were building our house
It's almost like it was designed to be used inside a city or town every day.

The Ford transit didn't have all wheel drive till just 2020.

Neither of which can fit more than 3 or 4, 4x8 sheets of plywood, none can without re arranging or taking out seats. And then you need to strap them down to protect them and any occupants inside the cabin. Where as I fit 9 4x8 sheets of plywood + 9 4x8 sheets of foam insulation in my truck bed and could have easily fit another 5-10 sheets of plywood I'd I needed to.

When yall talk, you come across as having a fundamental lack of knowledge about America. I don't pretend to spout shit about Europe and how yall do things.

I used a minivan as a truck for 6 years hauling anything that would fit from 12+ ft Lumber pushed all the way to literally the front console of the minivan, to live edge slabs, concrete, soil, mulch. We used the third row seating maybe 5 times in 6 years, the rest of the time the seats were down for cargo space.

Yes, absolutely it can do those things, but your going to tear up your interior doing it.
And yall remind me of this video I saw the other day.

View: https://youtu.be/hybQDOcD9aw
Just cause you CAN do something doesn't mean you should do something. Or that it's the best option.

You want to say we should have more trains, both high-speed across the country and public transport. You'll get no argument from me. Or that we need more green spaces and walkable green spaces devoid of vehicles, again you'll get no argument from me.
You want to say that there are truck drivers that don't need a truck. Absolutely you'll get no argument from me. I said as much in the NJB thread. As well as GM trucks front grill hoods being ludicrously tall. Or dudes jacking their trucks up and putting low profile tires, ridiculous.

But im genuinely curious, do you think I should have a "work van" and then a sedan as my daily and my wife's car. So 3 cars to insure, take care of, etc.

Or does it make more sense to... Get a truck that's all wheel drive, can both haul just about anything I need to, and haul my entire family in an interior(that'd we would actually use) that's bigger and nicer than our minivan. Despite the truck actually only being about 6 inches wider and 18 inches longer than our previous minivan.
Oh and the truck is fully electric, while no one makes an electric minivan.

njb thread?
what is that?
got a link?
NJB =Not just bikes. Sorry I didnt follow my own rule of spelling out acronyms.
www.resetera.com

Trucks and SUVs bring death to our cities, children and the planet.

This feels like a video long overdue, Not Just Bikes, everyone's favorite urbanist youtuber and walkable city advocate, completely eviscerates the culture that has brought about the invasion of pick-up trucks and SUVs on mostly American roads. He also describes just how we got here and provides...
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,835
Texas
Meh, I'd bet for the occasional haul of things from Home Depot for the latest weekend project could be accomplished by just renting a truck for the weekend in the vast majority of non-business use cases. That's what I've done and it's much cheaper than buying into a full blown truck or massive thing just for the status and ride height. And bonus I don't have to drive a boat day to day to get around to the local Costco.

There is zero question that a large percentage of large non-business trucks/SUVs on the road in the US aren't truly needed. It is more that they're perceived as safer because they ride higher and they're easier to bully other cars on the road. I say that as a Texan going on 8 years now.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,394
About to hit 10,000 miles on my Bolt EUV(2023). It's a fantastic car, and I really can't think of anything I don't like about it. Well, maybe the cargo space could be bigger. But in terms of actual driving, it's easily the best car I've owned. Oh, and definitely get the upgrade with the heated seats/wheel.

Yep the more I drive with all the options, my opinions are:

- This is my favorite car I've ever driven. The EV hype is real. The engineering is just smart on the EUV - buttons are all in logical places, the buttons you want are there. If there is one more physical button I wish existed, it would be for the parking camera. But every climate and steering and media function has a button in a logical place and I love it. The screen is way bigger than my previous Civic's.

- Love the suspension, the height of the car, the shorter length of the car compared to others I've driven - for my needs, it's the absolute perfect size car.

- Sun/Sound package was probably a waste. The Bose speakers aren't anything to write home about and require a lot of equalizer adjustments. If I could redo the build, I'd probably save $2,500 by removing this option.

- Super Cruise is nice on the few occasions I've used it, but the real MVP is adaptive cruise control - which is basically Super Cruise without the steering. The way it perfectly handles the flow of traffic is so good. I'm not sure if the EUV needs the Super Cruise option to get ACC but if it does, it's worth it just for that. I'll probably let the Super Cruise subscription lapse after the 3 year trial but continue to use ACC. I'm pretty sure ACC just comes with Premier, and if that's the case, then yeah I think I'd just skip Super Cruise and stick with Premier if I had to do it over, save another $2,500 or so. If I commuted a lot more than I do though, I'd probably find it worth it more than I do now.

- Premier upgrade has so many quality of life features and is absolutely worth the money. The cooling seats alone in Florida are great.

- Level 1 charging is abysmal and just makes me think about my charge all day and whether I'll have enough. Finally getting Level 2 charging (paid for by Chevy, thanks GM) freed me from constantly thinking about it. I would simply not get an EV if I lived somewhere without Level 2 charging. I'd outright sell any EV for an ICE if I had to move somewhere with no way to get Level 2 charging where I live. The constant thinking about my charge status is a drag when I don't have it.


TLDR:
Bolt EUV: 👍
Premier Package: 👍
Sun/Sound Package: 👎
Super Cruise: 🤷‍♂️
 

Venatio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,776
- Level 1 charging is abysmal and just makes me think about my charge all day and whether I'll have enough. Finally getting Level 2 charging (paid for by Chevy, thanks GM) freed me from constantly thinking about it. I would simply not get an EV if I lived somewhere without Level 2 charging. I'd outright sell any EV for an ICE if I had to move somewhere with no way to get Level 2 charging where I live. The constant thinking about my charge status is a drag when I don't have it.

Ugh, tell me about it. I had to live that Level 1 charging life for a month and it was brutal. My daily commute is 60 miles, and I could only get about 30-40 miles charged each night, so I was constantly nervous about it. Getting that 240v outlet installed (for free!) was a real game changer.
 

Trouble

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,223
Seattle-ish
Those Grizzl-E chargers are supposed to be excellent against bad weather when installed outside too.
I was very pleased with the build quality. It feels super solid with the metal case. Also, super happy with the 40A charging speed.

Minor annoyance is that all the screws are weird sizes/shapes (square, star) that I don't have the right size attachments for. I thought I had the full gamut of possible screw bits. Must be a Canadian thing 🤷‍♂️
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,104
Houston
Meh, I'd bet for the occasional haul of things from Home Depot for the latest weekend project could be accomplished by just renting a truck for the weekend in the vast majority of non-business use cases. That's what I've done and it's much cheaper than buying into a full blown truck or massive thing just for the status and ride height. And bonus I don't have to drive a boat day to day to get around to the local Costco.

There is zero question that a large percentage of large non-business trucks/SUVs on the road in the US aren't truly needed. It is more that they're perceived as safer because they ride higher and they're easier to bully other cars on the road. I say that as a Texan going on 8 years now.
im at home depot or other wood working stores, sometimes 3-5 times per week 😬 and im not even a "contractor"

That is a bizarrely aggressive reply, as someone who owns a truck.
is it as aggressive as people telling other people to just get a work van cause they know whats best for others? or that trucks shouldn't exist?
The worst part about owning a truck is having friends that want to borrow it. 😩
oof i once helped a friend move her shit from austin to gavleston in college cause my car was in the shop and i had my dads small truck. it had no AC, was abysmal.

Ugh, tell me about it. I had to live that Level 1 charging life for a month and it was brutal. My daily commute is 60 miles, and I could only get about 30-40 miles charged each night, so I was constantly nervous about it. Getting that 240v outlet installed (for free!) was a real game changer.
level 1 is only feasible for people that drive like 30 or miles or less a day. anything beyond that and you really need 220 for your charger.
 

Darren Lamb

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,846
Re: trucks, I think it's bizarre for anyone to say there's not a use case for them, it's just that they sell in quantities that aren't commensurate with who actually needs those capabilities regularly. Don't think there's anything wrong with captive doing truck things with a truck

Otherwise, anyone waiting for the Equinox?

I'm basically trying to find something with feature parity to my Bolt Premier but charges faster, and the Equinox will probably get there with a 40k trim instead of a 55k one for the ID4/Ioniq 5/Ariya. Thing is 190 inches long though which could be a deal breaker. I guess their battery pack design necessitates it, the ICE version is 183

Happy to see the positive EUV impressions though! Been really happy with the OG Bolt despite the recall
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,166
is it as aggressive as people telling other people to just get a work van cause they know whats best for others? or that trucks shouldn't exist?
I bounced out of that thread when it became apparent that the thought process was "get a work vehicle for work and only use it at work, and use a different vehicle outside of work" because somehow the energy savings of not using the larger vehicle outside of work would somehow offset the emissions of manufacturing an extra sedan. I realize that EVs aren't a silver bullet and that some people are angry at large, expensive EVs rolling off lines but nobody is replacing a gas or diesel truck with a car so EV trucks are a positive.

I'm still unsure of what our plans are for our vehicles at this point. Likely a hybrid truck and a Bolt EUV or something like that because an EV truck doesn't have the jam to pull 7500 lbs any reasonable distance (imo). Maybe solid state batteries or some other advancement will improve energy density and will fit my needs.

Re: trucks, I think it's bizarre for anyone to say there's not a use case for them, it's just that they sell in quantities that aren't commensurate with who actually needs those capabilities regularly. Don't think there's anything wrong with captive doing truck things with a truck

Otherwise, anyone waiting for the Equinox?

I'm basically trying to find something with feature parity to my Bolt Premier but charges faster, and the Equinox will probably get there with a 40k trim instead of a 55k one for the ID4/Ioniq 5/Ariya. Thing is 190 inches long though which could be a deal breaker. I guess their battery pack design necessitates it, the ICE version is 183

Happy to see the positive EUV impressions though! Been really happy with the OG Bolt despite the recall
Agree with these thoughts. Are there too many trucks on the road? Yes. Are era posters going to influence the tools choose and how I use them to make money? Lol, fuck no; I'm my own accountant and the numbers need to make sense to me, and only me.

Equinox having faster charging could be good for road trips for us but unsure what direction we will go.
 
Last edited:

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,456
Germany
is it as aggressive as people telling other people to just get a work van cause they know whats best for others? or that trucks shouldn't exist?
- trucks and similar work vehicles will always exist
- different types of vehicles work best in different scenarios
- a gigantic pickup truck driven around as a daily driver works in some places (the US for example) but not in others
- I like the Lightning, I also like the Rivian, they are just too damn big for us over here 🤷‍♂️ I see maybe 5 cars of this size a year driven by people privately. A BMW X5/X7 is what I would call too big for the city

I just think the term "truck things" is weird, that's all, as it's a utility vehicle thing for me. I guess it's because English isn't my native language
 
Jan 29, 2018
9,562
Otherwise, anyone waiting for the Equinox?

I'm basically trying to find something with feature parity to my Bolt Premier but charges faster, and the Equinox will probably get there with a 40k trim instead of a 55k one for the ID4/Ioniq 5/Ariya. Thing is 190 inches long though which could be a deal breaker. I guess their battery pack design necessitates it, the ICE version is 183

Happy to see the positive EUV impressions though! Been really happy with the OG Bolt despite the recall

I'm eagerly awaiting more info on the Equinox though I doubt the more affordable trims will be available this year. It seems like the closest thing I could get to an electric Ford Escape, which is what I have now.

I didn't know it was longer though. Shouldn't be a problem as long as it fits in my garage.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,104
Houston
- trucks and similar work vehicles will always exist
- different types of vehicles work best in different scenarios
- a gigantic pickup truck driven around as a daily driver works in some places (the US for example) but not in others
- I like the Lightning, I also like the Rivian, they are just too damn big for us over here 🤷‍♂️ I see maybe 5 cars of this size a year driven by people privately. A BMW X5/X7 is what I would call too big for the city

I just think the term "truck things" is weird, that's all, as it's a utility vehicle thing for me. I guess it's because English isn't my native language
all good man!

Re: trucks, I think it's bizarre for anyone to say there's not a use case for them, it's just that they sell in quantities that aren't commensurate with who actually needs those capabilities regularly. Don't think there's anything wrong with captive doing truck things with a truck
absolutely agreed on all those.

mach e got bluecruise 1.2 update.

View: https://twitter.com/Out_of_Spec/status/1635642540631158785?s=20

and got the best safety rating of any suv IIHS just tested.

View: https://twitter.com/mrlevine/status/1635600383153172487?s=20
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,617
Mengy it's like they knew you were talking shit about them lol

I'm definitely going to give the updated systems a look at my local dealership at some point if they have any '23's on the lot. I want to see if this update fixes some of the CarPlay issues I noticed.

Fords doing a decent job in the EV space, especially considering how "new" both of their EV's are yet. One of the stronger legacy automakers with regards to EV's so far. Ford still uses pouch batteries though, I wish they'd migrate to cylindrical cells and implement better battery management systems.
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,166
Fords doing a decent job in the EV space, especially considering how "new" both of their EV's are yet. One of the stronger legacy automakers with regards to EV's so far. Ford still uses pouch batteries though, I wish they'd migrate to cylindrical cells and implement better battery management systems.
Are cylinders considered better/more advanced? My only experience is with electronics and power tools and power tools specifically are moving to pouches for smaller battery packs, higher discharge rate, and longer pack life.
 

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,617
Are cylinders considered better/more advanced? My only experience is with electronics and power tools and power tools specifically are moving to pouches for smaller battery packs, higher discharge rate, and longer pack life.

Cylinders allow better thermal management than is possible with pouch cells. It's why all the best charging EV's have cylindrical cells (Tesla, Ioniq, Lucid, etc). With pouch cells there are areas within the pack which are very hard to thermally control, this is why pouch packs have worse charging curves and are more prone to thermal limiting or even overheating.
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,166
Cylinders allow better thermal management than is possible with pouch cells. It's why all the best charging EV's have cylindrical cells (Tesla, Ioniq, Lucid, etc). With pouch cells there are areas within the pack which are very hard to thermally control, this is why pouch packs have worse charging curves and are more prone to thermal limiting or even overheating.
Interesting, thanks for the info. That makes sense, different applications after all. Most power tool manufacturers in with cylindrical cells use pretty aggressive thermal cut offs. It's definitely easy for us to trip protection on a Milwaukee battery that still has charge before our hole is done with a rotary hammer, and Dewalt's new pouch cell packs are supposed to last dramatically longer than the cylinder packs with higher output. Charging is the same across both form factors but it's only 5 pouches in a tool battery; little bit different scale of heat and output lol.

I had heard extensively when they were releasing the new style that lots of RC car enthusiasts warn that pouch cells can swell and overheat easily but that happens in phones and tablets too (Samsung knows all about it lol).