Epic Games Vs. Apple court case has begun

Shoshi · May 4, 2021

Imagine all the bugs and crashes we would see if the consoles becomes a PC with many different storefronts.
Who are going to make sure those play well with Sonys console?
Sony would have to work together with developers from all other storefronts and it would be a clusterfuxx of a mess.
Everyone who compained on Storage cramping up because "Other" takes 3GB are going to complain about how all storefronts together take up 50-100G.

AshenOne · May 4, 2021

Shoshi said:
Imagine all the bugs and crashes we would see if the consoles becomes a PC with many different storefronts.
Who are going to make sure those play well with Sonys console?
Sony would have to work together with developers from all other storefronts and it would be a clusterfuxx of a mess.
Everyone who compained on Storage cramping up because "Other" takes 3GB are going to complain about how all storefronts together take up 50-100G.

Yeah IMO a lot of people wanting this don't maybe understand the consquences of this should it become a ground reality. The hoops of going through to implement it and implement good enough might be a nightmare for console manufacturers... other stores also might want to get onto that sweet console pie..

Armadilo · May 4, 2021

AshenOne said:
I think that this is a significant enough decision that warrants its own thread. Big ramifications for consoles if by any chance Epic wins here..

Also it would be a great way to inform console peeps regarding this because this forum right now is console centric.

Probably good to just have one thread as I doubt the mods want two threads with people talking about the same thing in each one, also it only matters if Apple were to lose as the danger to consoles and what might happen.

AshenOne · May 4, 2021

Armadilo said:
Probably good to just have one thread as I doubt the mods want two threads with people talking about the same thing in each one, also it only matters if Apple were to lose as the danger to consoles and what might happen.

True but there are already a bajillion threads regarding the court case with each thread covering significant news.

While it is indeed an IF scenario but at the same time i do feel like a lot of people rooting for epic to win or peeps who don't care at all since it might not affect them, would want to know of this at least..I guess i'll make one myself once i wake up tomorrow :P

BeI · May 4, 2021

How much longer is the case going on?

Uzzy · May 4, 2021

AshenOne said:
I think that this is a significant enough decision that warrants its own thread. Big ramifications for consoles if by any chance Epic wins here..

Also it would be a great way to inform console peeps regarding this because this forum right now is console centric.

I don't think that's quite how it works. The court case is obviously looking at consoles and PCs as part of the general look into the market conditions, but that's quite expected. Any ruling could have immediate effects on consoles, like the Judge could in theory rule that all walled gardens are illegal, but it's more likely that a ruling in Epic's favour will be narrowly aimed at Apple and the iOS infrastructure. That could create significant precedent that'll have the console makers worried, but we'd need to wait and see if any company takes that precedent into a court case later.

BeI said:
How much longer is the case going on?

It's scheduled for three weeks. Epic presenting their case in the first week, then discussions about what is and isn't a monopoly in the second, then Apple's defence in the third.

Xun · May 4, 2021

I really hope this fucks up for Epic.

I like game consoles and iOS devices because of the walled garden approach, and I personally want that to remain.

I don't think many people realise just how much of a mess it'll be otherwise.

Dyno · May 4, 2021

Uzzy said:
I don't think that's quite how it works. The court case is obviously looking at consoles and PCs as part of the general look into the market conditions, but that's quite expected. Any ruling could have immediate effects on consoles, like the Judge could in theory rule that all walled gardens are illegal, but it's more likely that a ruling in Epic's favour will be narrowly aimed at Apple and the iOS infrastructure. That could create significant precedent that'll have the console makers worried, but we'd need to wait and see if any company takes that precedent into a court case later.

Even if that were the case it would be very temporary. If epic win then the floodgates are opened and there will be a legal basis from which to fight the case. Walled gardens in general will be easy to break if one is not legally enforceable. Fuck knows how many industries it could even reach but it has the potential to kill a lot of business models as games and phones are far from the only ones relying on them.

Uzzy · May 4, 2021

Dyno said:
Even if that were the case it would be very temporary. If epic win then the floodgates are opened and there will be a legal basis from which to fight the case. Walled gardens in general will be easy to break if one is not legally enforceable. Fuck knows how many industries it could even reach but it has the potential to kill a lot of business models as games and phones are far from the only ones relying on them.

Oh absolutely, I'm sure there'll be someone eager to smash open the console walled gardens even if Epic stear clear themselves. And industries beyond that, as you say. It'd be a really huge shift.

Dyno · May 4, 2021

Uzzy said:
Oh absolutely, I'm sure there'll be someone eager to smash open the console walled gardens even if Epic stear clear themselves. And industries beyond that, as you say. It'd be a really huge shift.

Tbh its the main reason I expect Epic to lose. Even if they had a winning case here I think any judge is going to have some idea just how wide reaching any action could be. Iirc the first judge this was seen by mentioned something of the kind. I can't imagine any of them are looking to begin the massive legal mess it opens up rather than stay within the status quo to some extent at least.

Uzzy · May 4, 2021

Dyno said:
Tbh its the main reason I expect Epic to lose. Even if they had a winning case here I think any judge is going to have some idea just how wide reaching any action could be. Iirc the first judge this was seen by mentioned something of the kind. I can't imagine any of them are looking to begin the massive legal mess it opens up rather than stay within the status quo to some extent at least.

Yeah, even if they felt that way inclined it might be safer to punt it up higher, get a more senior court to make that ruling.

Deleted member 198 · May 4, 2021

Shoshi said:
Imagine all the bugs and crashes we would see if the consoles becomes a PC with many different storefronts.
Who are going to make sure those play well with Sonys console?
Sony would have to work together with developers from all other storefronts and it would be a clusterfuxx of a mess.
Everyone who compained on Storage cramping up because "Other" takes 3GB are going to complain about how all storefronts together take up 50-100G.

Yeah it would be a nightmare. Best case scenario if Epic won would be that the courts just force Apple to change some of their store policies.

fourfourfun · May 4, 2021

Shoshi said:
Imagine all the bugs and crashes we would see if the consoles becomes a PC with many different storefronts.
Who are going to make sure those play well with Sonys console?
Sony would have to work together with developers from all other storefronts and it would be a clusterfuxx of a mess.
Everyone who compained on Storage cramping up because "Other" takes 3GB are going to complain about how all storefronts together take up 50-100G.

I don't think this will happen. As a developer, you're just servicing a single platform via a multitude of storefronts. The admin would be their end, but it would be more like pushing the latest patches to each store rather than just one.

The big issue is when Epic start to weigh in with demands: you want to use Unreal on your game? You must give our store one year's exclusivity (or even complete). Want to release on our dominant storefront? Then you must use Unreal. Which is why you give out free games - once you become the dominant storefront, you call the shots. Once you have the dominant dev stack, you call the shots. Put it all together and you've a complete ecosystem monopoly, across anything that may ever play a game. And they KNOW that most people only look as far forward as "will thing I like be cheaper/free?", not to "will this completely homogenise and blight the ecosystem".

Shoshi · May 4, 2021

I just wish Epic never ever made EGS and concentrated on what they are good at -
Unreal Engine and the development of a few games.
Was it Fortnite that started their megalomania?

.exe · May 4, 2021

Shoshi said:
I just wish Epic never ever made EGS and concentrated on what they are good at -
Unreal Engine and the development of a few games.
Was it Fortnite that started their megalomania?

It would've probably been bad business on Epic's part not to try to pivot the success of Fortnite and leverage the associated influx of users into another revenue stream that isn't entirely dependent on Fortnite's continued success. And to have it up and running (as barebones as it was) within about a year of Fornite blowing up. That was just good thinking, I'd say.

mclem · May 4, 2021

Shoshi said:
Imagine all the bugs and crashes we would see if the consoles becomes a PC with many different storefronts.

One interesting question is whether similar logic could be applied to enforcement of certification requirements, because those are *also* ways a hardware manufacturer can dictate what is permitted onto their system. Would the hardware manufacturer still be able to block content from a side store on the grounds that it breaks certification? If not, that opens a *whole* other kettle of fish.

One thing that's been danced around a bit - and I'm going to be very interested to hear the court's discussion on the subject - is how all this applies to monetising Free to Play titles specifically - they still need to be tested and certified, and their only avenue for monetisation is through in-game transactions. In one of Epic's earlier missives they suggested a way Apple could still get a reasonable fee for that without in-game transaction fees, and it's terrible:

That's one big concern about this for me, because one side-effect of such a practice would be effectively pulling Epic pulling the ladder up behind them and stopping small companies who couldn't afford such a thing from making the next big free-to-play hit. There needs to be a better solution, so I'm very interested to see how that is approached in the court.

Edit: Oh, wait. Given what's been said in the past about difficulties for small developers getting their titles onto EGS (how is that these days, anyway?), I'm suddenly seeing all this as a SuperLeague analogy!

Tovarisc · May 4, 2021

mclem said:
Edit: Oh, wait. Given what's been said in the past about difficulties for small developers getting their titles onto EGS (how is that these days, anyway?), I'm suddenly seeing all this as a SuperLeague analogy!

EGS is still strictly curated walled garden. You aren't getting in if Tim Epic doesn't see you as (possible) hit.

Edit: They have hinted at stopping curating in future, but store having almost negative discoverability tools it would be disaster hence still long ways out. If ever.

dude · May 4, 2021

Xun said:
I really hope this fucks up for Epic.

I like game consoles and iOS devices because of the walled garden approach, and I personally want that to remain.

I don't think many people realise just how much of a mess it'll be otherwise.

I really hope this fucks over Apple.
iOS and consoles (which are two seperate things) can keep most of their advantages for most people - But I don't think you understand how much power Apple has over a very sizeable part of the software market. Making a software for mobile today means catering to Apple's every whim, and by the way they act with devs (especially smaller ones or ones they don't already have an established relationship with) shows that they are very aware of it.

Madjoki · May 4, 2021

Tovarisc said:
Edit: They have hinted at stopping curating in future, but store having almost negative discoverability tools it would be disaster hence still long ways out. If ever.

One of Epic points is that it curates though:

lexony · May 4, 2021

I still don't understand this. I don't think that Epic can gain anything from this.

Kill3r7 · May 4, 2021

lexony said:
I still don't understand this. I don't think that Epic can gain anything from this.

What don't you understand? Getting access to Apple's consumer base and selling them products without Apple getting their current cut is a massive win for companies like Epic.

lexony · May 4, 2021

Kill3r7 said:
What don't you understand? Getting access to Apple's consumer base and selling them products without Apple getting their current cut is a massive win for companies like Epic.

I don't think that they have much of a chance because after reading both presentations their arguments don't seem really strong to me.

gifyku · May 4, 2021

Xun said:
I really hope this fucks up for Epic.

I like game consoles and iOS devices because of the walled garden approach, and I personally want that to remain.

I don't think many people realise just how much of a mess it'll be otherwise.

The mess factor is overstated. Our iOS devices have non apple approved apps because we have an enterprise certificate to load them for work use. Our iPhones don't blow up. Loading external apps does not require rooting or compromise the integrity of the sandbox. Don't believe everything Apple says

Kill3r7 · May 4, 2021

lexony said:
I don't think that they have much of a chance because after reading both presentations their arguments don't seem really strong to me.

Be that as it may, they aren't banking on convincing you or frankly the current judge. Their goal will be to win at SCOTUS level because anything else is a merely a hollow victory at best. Whatever decision comes from this court will be appealed.

collige · May 4, 2021

gifyku said:
The mess factor is overstated. Our iOS devices have non apple approved apps because we have an enterprise certificate to load them for work use. Our iPhones don't blow up. Loading external apps does not require rooting or compromise the integrity of the sandbox. Don't believe everything Apple says

People abused the shit out of enterprise certificates though, which I'm sure Apple will use as evidence that they do actaully compromise the integrity of the sandbox.

Deleted member 3190 · May 4, 2021

Xun said:
I really hope this fucks up for Epic.

I like game consoles and iOS devices because of the walled garden approach, and I personally want that to remain.

I don't think many people realise just how much of a mess it'll be otherwise.

What do you like about them that you couldn't get with a more open approach?

lexony · May 4, 2021

Kill3r7 said:
Be that as it may, they aren't banking on convincing you or frankly the current judge. Their goal will be to win at SCOTUS level because anything else is a merely a hollow victory at best. Whatever decision comes from this court will be appealed.

Of course they need to convince me :P.

Still it seems all very ideological to me (closed system vs open). I don't think that an independent Epic Game Store on iOS would actually be that successful. But we'll see.

Kill3r7 · May 4, 2021

lexony said:
Of course they need to convince me :P.

Still it seems all very ideological to me (closed system vs open). I don't think that an independent Epic Game Store on iOS would actually be that successful. But we'll see.

It is clear to me that Epic will lean hard of F2P in the future. As such any savings on in game currency, season passes and other sales adds up long term. The credit card litigation (ongoing since
2003) is proof of this concept where merchants making tens and in some cases hundreds of billions annually in revenue are fighting tooth and nail to save 1-2%.

Edit: As mentioned below there is also the Tencent factor.

LewieP · May 4, 2021

lexony said:
Of course they need to convince me :P.

Still it seems all very ideological to me (closed system vs open). I don't think that an independent Epic Game Store on iOS would actually be that successful. But we'll see.

Tencent would be well positioned to become the defacto default app store for China.

Oregano · May 4, 2021

Kill3r7 said:
It is clear to me that Epic will lean hard of F2P in the future. As such any savings on in game currency, season passes and other sales adds up long term. The credit card litigation (ongoing since
2003) is proof of this concept where merchants making tens and in some cases hundreds of billions annually in revenue are fighting tooth and nail to save 1-2%.

It's not even that. The end game is to have Epic Game Store on iOS, PlayStation, Xbox and Nintendo consoles and have it as prominently placed as the manufacturers store(considering they complained about Android discouraging sideloading), they can then pay third parties to make their games exclusive to EGS on those devices like they're doing on PC.

Also leverage all the control over middleware that they have, and that they'll continue to invest in.

Matthias · May 4, 2021

I'll watch the speed run when it's all over

1-D_FE · May 4, 2021

Xun said:
I really hope this fucks up for Epic.

I like game consoles and iOS devices because of the walled garden approach, and I personally want that to remain.

I don't think many people realise just how much of a mess it'll be otherwise.

Apple's walled garden is this: Pay us a yearly developer fee + 30% of all revenue. That's it. You can do almost anything else and we good. Yes, child porn and maybe advocating the overthrowing of the US government crosses a line... but otherwise, we good. Blatantly rip off software that's a 100% clone? No issue. As long as them checks clear, we good. It's not a walled garden in any sense other than a giant fence that everyone has to toss their cash into. It's more of a walled hat.

dex3108 · May 4, 2021

Oregano said:
It's not even that. The end game is to have Epic Game Store on iOS, PlayStation, Xbox and Nintendo consoles and have it as prominently placed as the manufacturers store(considering they complained about Android discouraging sideloading), they can then pay third parties to make their games exclusive to EGS on those devices like they're doing on PC.

Also leverage all the control over middleware that they have, and that they'll continue to invest in.

They wouldn't need to pay them because Epic current strategy is to make Unreal Engine basically only viable engine for developers on the market. They are purchasing all major developer tools and other resources and making them free if you use Unreal Engine. And then they have special treatment for Epic Store developers who use Unreal Engine.

gifyku · May 4, 2021

EDIT : Had a weird draft that i had to remove

collige said:
People abused the shit out of enterprise certificates though, which I'm sure Apple will use as evidence that they do actaully compromise the integrity of the sandbox.

That is on Apple though. There are scams aplenty on the App Store today. Subscriptions scams, fake apps etc. So saying it is somehow worsened by Enterprise certificates is not exactly true. If there is an Enterprise certificate, it actually is easier to revoke the whole universe of apps than it is for Apple to manage its own store

Apple doesnt want to spend the money to actually have an enforcement strategy other than a honor system plus saying "we will boot you off the store if we find out."

Yet Apps will get routinely rejected for things like not having a Sign In with Apple option etc. Shows you where their priorities lay.

Dinjoralo · May 4, 2021

Oregano said:
It's not even that. The end game is to have Epic Game Store on iOS, PlayStation, Xbox and Nintendo consoles and have it as prominently placed as the manufacturers store(considering they complained about Android discouraging sideloading), they can then pay third parties to make their games exclusive to EGS on those devices like they're doing on PC.

Also leverage all the control over middleware that they have, and that they'll continue to invest in.

That... Makes a lot of sense.
It's also scummy as hell. They're basically asking to be able to build a store in a mall without paying the guys who built it. Kind of. Epic could easily edge out the platform owners on cuts, sales, etc because they aren't having to invest nearly as much in developing the platform they're running on.

Oregano · May 4, 2021

Dinjoralo said:
That... Makes a lot of sense.
It's also scummy as hell. They're basically asking to be able to build a store in a mall without paying the guys who built it. Kind of. Epic could easily edge out the platform owners on cuts, sales, etc because they aren't having to invest nearly as much in developing the platform they're running on.

Yup, earlier in this case they even said they want EGS on the App Store.

dex3108 said:
They wouldn't need to pay them because Epic current strategy is to make Unreal Engine basically only viable engine for developers on the market. They are purchasing all major developer tools and other resources and making them free if you use Unreal Engine. And then they have special treatment for Epic Store developers who use Unreal Engine.

True.

Xun · May 4, 2021

dude said:
I really hope this fucks over Apple.
iOS and consoles (which are two seperate things) can keep most of their advantages for most people - But I don't think you understand how much power Apple has over a very sizeable part of the software market. Making a software for mobile today means catering to Apple's every whim, and by the way they act with devs (especially smaller ones or ones they don't already have an established relationship with) shows that they are very aware of it.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree that Apple have too much power and that their policies need to change.

I just hope that can happen without changing the experience of iOS for users.

gifyku said:
The mess factor is overstated. Our iOS devices have non apple approved apps because we have an enterprise certificate to load them for work use. Our iPhones don't blow up. Loading external apps does not require rooting or compromise the integrity of the sandbox. Don't believe everything Apple says

Perhaps, I just feel that with a more open environment compromises to security are inevitable when it's open on a larger scale.

binarymelon said:
What do you like about them that you couldn't get with a more open approach?

Not needing to have multiple stores to access the apps/games I want?

Deleted member 3190 · May 4, 2021

Xun said:
Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree that Apple have too much power and that their policies need to change.

I just hope that can happen without changing the experience of iOS for users.
Perhaps, I just feel that with a more open environment compromises to security are inevitable when it's open on a larger scale.
Not needing to have multiple stores to access the apps/games I want?

So you want the right to choose where you make your purchases? That's fine, but shouldn't developers and publishers be given the right to choose how and where their apps are distributed, and shouldn't other users be given the same choice? Apples dominance in the mobile app market basically makes it a requirement to go through them if you want to survive.

Rowsdower · May 4, 2021

I don't want to make a thread on a tweet, and I think this would go here:

Mr. Mug · May 4, 2021

Xun said:
Not needing to have multiple stores to access the apps/games I want?

I can't think of a single android app that's exclusive to an alternative app store even though it very much is an option. People are overstating the odds of these alternative app stores actually taking off by a lot.

Meanwhile there's a lot of apps I could think of that would make my iPad more interesting and useful to me if I could install apps outside of the app store that are only not on there because they allow execution of other code. Retroarch for example, proper IDEs or even game streaming. Or even something as simple as buying kindle books without Apple charging 30%.

魑魅魍魎 · May 4, 2021

Xun said:
I really hope this fucks up for Epic.

I like game consoles and iOS devices because of the walled garden approach, and I personally want that to remain.

I don't think many people realise just how much of a mess it'll be otherwise.

Feel the same way

spam musubi · May 4, 2021

Mr. Mug said:
I can't think of a single android app that's exclusive to an alternative app store even though it very much is an option. People are overstating the odds of these alternative app stores actually taking off by a lot.

I mean, this is literally what epic does in the PC space and given the opportunity to do an App Store on any other platform they'd likely do the same.

Shard Shinjuku · May 4, 2021

lexony · May 4, 2021

Kill3r7 said:
It is clear to me that Epic will lean hard of F2P in the future. As such any savings on in game currency, season passes and other sales adds up long term. The credit card litigation (ongoing since
2003) is proof of this concept where merchants making tens and in some cases hundreds of billions annually in revenue are fighting tooth and nail to save 1-2%.

Edit: As mentioned below there is also the Tencent factor.

Hmm yeah I see that.

Still in my opinion there is much more needed to be successful for a store like that. iOS isn't mainly a gaming platform. To convince a large amount of users to download a separate app over the web (If EGS in Appstore isn't happening) to play a certain free to play game would probably not be easy as long as the game is easily available on other platforms.

We see this already with Fortnite. Most people who are interested in playing (and invest) in this game were doing this already on a dedicated gaming device, even when Fortnite on iOS was still a thing.

A Appstore for all kinds of apps + tencent in china is of course a different story.
But even then the Apple Appstore is currently etablished as the only store on iPhone since forever and third parties could have a hard time to gain any market share on a formerly closed platform.

Mr. Mug · May 4, 2021

spam musubi said:
I mean, this is literally what epic does in the PC space and given the opportunity to do an App Store on any other platform they'd likely do the same.

While that's true nobody has done so in any way whatsoever for android yet. Would they for iOS? they'd probably try but again I don't see it taking off in a big way like some people here tend to think it would. And also people are talking about 15+ stores, there's barely like what 5 or 6 on pc now that are viable?

That being said if Apple provided a way to sideload apps that would not allow for alternative app stores i'd be perfectly happy. The way Android does it means it's possible but the average user is not going to bother. That's fine with me. I just really hate the idea of Apple deciding what you can and cannot install on your device. It is one of the arguments against it I do kinda understand though but I really don't see it becoming as much of a mess as people think it would become especially on iOS. (I think the idea of security being better on iOS because of it is kind of bs for example).

spam musubi · May 4, 2021

Mr. Mug said:
While that's true nobody has done so in any way whatsoever for android yet. Would they for iOS? they'd probably try but again I don't see it taking off in a big way like some people here tend to think it would. And also people are talking about 15+ stores, there's barely like what 5 or 6 on pc now that are viable?

That being said if Apple provided a way to sideload apps that would not allow for alternative app stores i'd be perfectly happy. The way Android does it means it's possible but the average user is not going to bother. That's fine with me. I just really hate the idea of Apple deciding what you can and cannot install on your device. It is one of the arguments against it I do kinda understand though but I really don't see it becoming as much of a mess as people think it would become especially on iOS. (I think the idea of security being better on iOS because of it is kind of bs for example).

But the better security is the most demonstrable part of all of this? The ability to run unsigned code is why malware is much more prominent on android. One of the points epic has no rebuttal for is that the requirement to side load fortnite on Android lead to a lot of fake fortnite malware APKs.

Impostor 'Fortnite' Android Apps Are Already Spreading Malware

New analysis from mobile security firm Lookout shows that malware authors are taking full advantage of 'Fortnite' ditching the Google Play Store.

www.wired.com

dude · May 4, 2021

Xun said:
Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree that Apple have too much power and that their policies need to change.

I just hope that can happen without changing the experience of iOS for users.

Perhaps, I just feel that with a more open environment compromises to security are inevitable when it's open on a larger scale.

Not needing to have multiple stores to access the apps/games I want?

1) There's no way to get that policy change without some change to the experience. iOS users will still be able to use the App Store they love. There's no reason other users shouldn't use other stores on iOS though or simply sideload apps they download if they wanted.
2) As Epic said in their presentation - Mac OS is not a walled garden (though as someone who uses a Mac laptop for work, that sure looks like something Apple would love to change if they could) - yes no one mentions it in regards to security risk, including Apple. I don't think open environment are that much less secure than walled garden ones.
3) You can still use just one store if you'd like. Like, when it comes to PC gaming - I prefer Steam, so I buy things from Steam - even though there are a lot of other options and some games appear on Steam later. Most apps and games would still come to the most popular choice on every platform (Steam, App Store, Google Play etc.)

lexony · May 4, 2021

Mr. Mug said:
While that's true nobody has done so in any way whatsoever for android yet. Would they for iOS? they'd probably try but again I don't see it taking off in a big way like some people here tend to think it would. And also people are talking about 15+ stores, there's barely like what 5 or 6 on pc now that are viable?

That being said if Apple provided a way to sideload apps that would not allow for alternative app stores i'd be perfectly happy. The way Android does it means it's possible but the average user is not going to bother. That's fine with me. I just really hate the idea of Apple deciding what you can and cannot install on your device. It is one of the arguments against it I do kinda understand though but I really don't see it becoming as much of a mess as people think it would become especially on iOS. (I think the idea of security being better on iOS because of it is kind of bs for example).

Yeah basically this. Third party stores would have a hard time on ios, when it is even on PC difficult.
But that you can't sideload apps is just annoying at this point. Especially when you work in a business context with apple devices.

Mr. Mug · May 4, 2021

spam musubi said:
But the better security is the most demonstrable part of all of this? The ability to run unsigned code is why malware is much more prominent on android. One of the points epic has no rebuttal for is that the requirement to side load fortnite on Android lead to a lot of fake fortnite malware APKs.

Impostor 'Fortnite' Android Apps Are Already Spreading Malware

New analysis from mobile security firm Lookout shows that malware authors are taking full advantage of 'Fortnite' ditching the Google Play Store.

www.wired.com

You're only thinking about security in the sense that applications that outright ask for permission to wreak havoc would have a harder time. Not allowing to sideload apps on iOS does not inherently make iOS more secure. In your example yes you'd not be able to willingly install malware. But apple not allowing apps to be sideloaded does not in any way mean exploits don't exist for viruses or other such things to be installed on your decice?

In terms of security I can't see it as anything more than a minor advantage. If the barrier that prevents sideloading is so strong then being able to disable it would really make iOS's security that much worse? I doubt it.

DireRaven · May 4, 2021

'Whoever wins, we lose'

Epic Games Vs. Apple court case has begun

Gabe’s little helper

AVALANCHE

Gabe’s little helper

AVALANCHE

Gabe’s little helper

User requested account closure

One Winged Slayer

alt account

One Winged Slayer

User requested account closure

Shinra Employee of The Wise Ones