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TimotheusNL

Banned
Jun 9, 2023
847
The Baldurs gate name realistically can't be touched after this unless they make it as good as BG3 it's just how it is. You try and name a game Baldurs gate and it sucks? You might see an initial jump at sales but everyone will drag it

I feel it's such a bad strategy as a publisher/IP holder. Success and good critical reception does not carry over with IP, it's a result of the labour talented and passionate development teams put in.

That was a harsh lesson Microsoft had to learn as well. They had extremely successful IP in hand with Gears and Halo and when the original developers of these games wanted to move on we got these tailor-built game factories (343i and The Coalition) that are destined to keep churning out middling games in those franchises.

It never works. Magic like that does not simply transfer between development teams.

Larian made BG3 incredible because Larian as a studio does incredible work and the IP was basically dead and forgotten. Now the IP is huge again and WotC is looking for devs to fill Larian's shoes. It will be a tremendous challenge to live up to because Larian's style is rather unique and I bet another developer trying to recreate that style is going to always feel like a cheap knockoff, I bet.
 
Jul 24, 2018
10,277
Being good at CRPGs and being able to make something that lives up to the content and graphical expectations of BG3 is something else entirely. Larian themselves worked their way up to a project that big.
Yes, and ultimately it was also Larian who approached WoTC to make a new Baldur's Gate and not the other way around.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,312
Doing a BG4 just seems so misguided. Whilst 3 will have undoubtedly increased the brand value of the BG name, it's still a relatively small factor in its monumental success. So, whilst it might give the game a small boost, all they'd really be doing is giving some poor developer a project that will, even in the absolute best case scenario, not be able to capture the same success as its predecessor. It'll be inevitably judged against something that required a rare level of talent, time, luck, financial stability, community cooperation, and business expertise (I.e. the type seen in all the staff WotC fired…) to pull off. That's even before any shit WotC might pull to further commodify the IP, like micro transactions, multiplayer monetisation, and so on.

Basically, it might be best for them to simply try and foster new Larians, instead of trying to foster the BG brand. I doubt they'll want to do that though, so good luck to whoever gets picked.

I bet Larian new project will be a new IP and probably not even fantasy, probably Sci-Fi if they want to try something different.
BG3's immaculate sense of adventure coupled with outlandish sci-fi planet hopping would be so damn good. Now I'm gonna be (slightly) disappointed if Larian's next project is Divinity 3 or something lol
 
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DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,409
I really feel for the team that has to follow up BG3. You never want to be the team that follows up something historically great. You want to be the team that follows that team.
 

Trigger

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,934
Atlanta, GA
I don't see any reason to expect BG4 with any excitement.

Baldur's Gate the name and brand was not the thing that made BG3 successful, it was the team and product behind it and there's no one like Larian except maybe CDPR and they have their own thing already.

Yeah, in many ways BG3 was just a really good Larian game.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,419
A different studio would have to build all of the tools that went into BGS3.... 😬

There is no timeline where this isn't a 5+ year project if done right.
 

CenaToon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,298
This sounds like that time FIFA said they were talking with tons of partners after breaking up with EA. I don't think anything has come out of it other than crypto games.

I was thinking the same thing. Also, any studio that takes the IP, will have to be prepared for A LOT of comparing between their game and Larian's. Baldur's Gate 3 is a generation-defining game, and people will have very high expectations for the next game in the franchise.
 

Nakho

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,299
I think Owlcat could do a good job, given a good budget. Don't know if that's even possible, given they're a Russian company, though.
 
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Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,291
Hull, UK
BG1 and 2 remakes incoming.

evil-dontyou.gif
 

Fishook

Member
Dec 20, 2017
813
They need to forget this idea completely, Larian did a splendid job on BG3 any other developer would ruin the franchise.

I am not saying that Owlcat, Obsidian or InXile are not capable of producing a sequel, I would rather them focus on other CRPG's .
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,361
WotC: "LARIAN WAS ABLE TO BUILD BALDUR'S GATE 3 IN A CAVE! WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS"
New developer: "But we're not Larian."

It's not a question of throwing the same amount of money at a studio and expecting the same results. It's not even the same as outright buying out everyone who works for Larian and plopping them in a new building.

It's possible not even Larian can do it better or even as good.

At some point everyone will have made their best work, and you don't know that until much later. But it's wildly unrealistic to see someone make one of the best things ever and say: "great, now make it even better".
 

naff

Unshakeable Resolve
Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,481
Honestly fantastic to hear. Just, moving on, no dlc, no sequel. A new game from one of the best in the biz. You love to see it.
 

Hrodulf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,322
Makes sense when you consider how successful 3 has been, but I feel sorry for any developer that potentially takes this on. You already have people in this thread saying it will be bad.
 

420blzUP

Member
Oct 6, 2022
712
BG4 should be a 10+ years long Project the same way BG3 was. There is no BG3 without DOS and DOS2!
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,774
Good luck. BG3 is a tough act to follow. I really can't think of many developers out there that can make a game of that scope with the AAA production values. I think there's been better RPGs from other developers in recent years, but none of those matched what BG3 was doing visually.
 

Senjuro

Member
Oct 10, 2019
1,096
Wrath of the Righteous is incredible and it even matches BG3 in several aspects despite being made in half the time and with a fraction of the budget but Owlcat will have to massively expand to make a BG4. Still probably the best candidate.

I wish Larian just stayed :(
 

Thalanil

Member
Aug 24, 2023
901
WotC: "LARIAN WAS ABLE TO BUILD BALDUR'S GATE 3 IN A CAVE! WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS"
New developer: "But we're not Larian."

It's not a question of throwing the same amount of money at a studio and expecting the same results. It's not even the same as outright buying out everyone who works for Larian and plopping them in a new building.

It's possible not even Larian can do it better or even as good.

At some point everyone will have made their best work, and you don't know that until much later. But it's wildly unrealistic to see someone make one of the best things ever and say: "great, now make it even better".

Plus as other people have said in this very thread Larian had been building up their tools and tech and engine for 3 games in a row by the time BG3 released( Divinity Original Sin 1, Divinity Original Sin 2 and BG3), any other dev(unless they also happen to be a CRPG dev with their own tools for the job but even then no other CRPG dev is as big and with as developed of an engine as Larian) would have to start from scratch. Baldur's Gate 3 success was the result of iteration.
 
Jul 24, 2018
10,277
Wrath of the Righteous, Wasteland 3, Pillars of Eternity 2.
Hmm, I don't think Wasteland 3 is in any way as good as Larian's DOS2 or BG3, and Pillars 2's gameplay just doesn't have the verticality of BG3's immersive sim gameplay in its turn based mode

I do really like what I've played of Deadfire.
Wrath of the Righteous is still a work in progress for me I know a lot of people aren't hot on its writing. I would like to play it and their Warhammer game.
 

calibos

Member
Dec 13, 2017
2,009
Obsidian is the only answer for another game in BG3 style.

Best chance for it to be available everywhere as well.
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,144
* thread search "platinum", no matches *
Damn, we don't even meme "give it to platinum" anymore, how times have changed
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,774
Hmm, I don't think Wasteland 3 is in any way as good as Larian's DOS2 or BG3, and Pillars 2's gameplay just doesn't have the verticality of BG3's immersive sim gameplay in its turn based mode

I do really like what I've played of Deadfire.
Wrath of the Righteous is still a work in progress for me I know a lot of people aren't hot on its writing. I would like to play it and their Warhammer game.

Writing wise Wrath of the Righteous can be a bit of a mixed bag. There are some low lows, but when it's good, it's really good.

Correct on all points, you have great taste friend and aren't alone here.

Right on.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,312
Plus as other people have said in this very thread Larian had been building up their tools and tech and engine for 3 games in a row by the time BG3 released( Divinity Original Sin 1, Divinity Original Sin 2 and BG3), any other dev(unless they also happen to be a CRPG dev with their own tools for the job but even then no other CRPG dev is as big and with as developed of an engine as Larian) would have to start from scratch. Baldur's Gate 3 success was the result of iteration.
BG3 also had those 2 years of Early Access, where Larian were able to refine the game in real time based on player feedback. All whilst making Act 1 - the most crucial act for retaining and introducing players to the game - as polished as it could possibly be before launch.

For a predominantly single player-focused AAA title, such a thing is a rarity. I doubt current-day WotC or the fan base would be welcoming of the idea. Hell, I don't know if Larian themselves will be doing the same thing again for the next game, given their newfound mass-popularity. We'll have to see in that regard.
 
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wanderjahr

Member
May 8, 2020
66
Hasbro stock has tanked 50% since 2020 and they will be looking to cash grab the living shit out of Baldur's Gate and it will not go well
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,990
Obsidian is the only answer for another game in BG3 style.

Best chance for it to be available everywhere as well.

I don't think WotC is going to have any interest in an exclusive BG game. They want to make all of the money, so going with a Sony or Microsoft-owned studio ain't happening.
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,217
Yeah. I was aware of Divinity existence but that was about it. I couldn't have named Larian as its developer. It reminds me of FromSoft a bit: I had heard about some of their games without knowing it was them and they really landed on my radar with Demon's Souls release.

This is 100% ERA bubble in action. Original Sin 2 was a huge hit- selling somewhere in the area of 8 million copies. Larian was not some some small, niche developer before BG3.
 

Akiba756

Member
Oct 1, 2020
1,128
Sao Paolo, Brazil
Random thought that came to my head, since the worst companies attract the worst, if WotC decides to partner with 2k, I think Firaxis could do a BG4, especially after Midnight Suns
 

Thalanil

Member
Aug 24, 2023
901
BG3 also had those 2 crucial years of Early Access, where Larian were able to refine the game in real time based on player feedback. All whilst making Act 1 - the most crucial act for retaining and introducing players to the game - as polished as it could possibly be before launch.

For a predominantly single player-focused AAA title, such a thing is a rarity. I doubt current-day WotC or the fan base would be welcoming of the idea. Hell, I don't know if Larian themselves will be doing the same thing again for the next game, given their newfound mass-popularity. We'll have to see in that regard.

Yeah great point, honestly BG3 feel like a one in a kind union of events and factors that led to such a breakout success.

-A passionate independent developer which had built up their skills, tools, reputation amongst CRPG fans, and developer headcount over the years willing to take on the project with no publisher oversight to held them back.

-A resurgence of DnD as an IP in popular culture.

-A lack of "Bioware style" narrative heavy with romances RPGs in the last few years and people hungering for more.

-A jump in presentation from Larian part with cinematic cutscenes without cutting back on their unique turn based gameplay( with stuff like plenty of elemental and enviroment interactions )and immersive simmy design philosophy which made their games unique.

-A 2 years early access period that allowed Larian to take their time, polish the game(even if that polish was kinda frontloaded) while getting an early infusion of cash thanks to people buying the early access for basically full price thanks to the reputation Larian had built off the back of their previous 2 projects.

-A viral marketing campaign off that popular panel from hell stream with the bear romance memes

Like it was the perfect confluence of events, I don't know how you even begin to replicate that. You probably can't, not intentionally at least, need to find another passionate independent dev willing to risk it to do something special their own way and hope it works out which is not a guarantee. And I don't even know who could do it right now which is not already busy or dosen't have the experience or resources or manpower to do it.

That's why I would let the Baldur's Gate franchise rest for a while if Larian dosen't want it(and they made that clear by now) and wait for another fortuitos opportunity in the future instead of desperately trying to make the magic happen again as soon as possible and risk bungling it.
 

L11ghtman

Banned
Jan 19, 2022
1,255
They must be a really toxic partner if Larian is just done with them.

I don't think WotC is going to have any interest in an exclusive BG game. They want to make all of the money, so going with a Sony or Microsoft-owned studio ain't happening.
I don't think anyone needs to worry about Microsoft making this game exclusive. Microsoft is very clearly moving away from that mentality especially for properties like this.