European era, what's your guy's opinion about reparations for colonialism?

[Heromanz]

So there's been a lot of discussion about reparation here in America for slavery . I got me thinking about European colonialism. European colonialism one of the greatest crimes of humanity in which countries or areas were taken over ravage and pillage for resources for the all mighty dollar . In which tens of millions of people died because of it. For example you have King Leopold's Congo that was responsible for the deaths of around 10 million people give or take. And when things were all said and done many these European power just skedaddle and did nothing and in many cases many cases made things way worse. Many of the European countries got Rich as fuck off of it at the cost of millions of people. Today we still feel the harmful and dangerous effects of colonialism. what do you guys think about reparations or a repayment of some sort for colonialism? Should it happen, should it not happen, should other stuff happened instead. Please discuss. Also this is not just a European issue, America is self and other countries have had similar things that are not as long as the Europeans. So you guys are happy to respond as well.

 

[The Doomed One]

I am happy to be European, but not a member of a colonial nation. I think those nations still owe a lot to their former colonies.

Actually, I'm very proud that my country was among the first ones in history to ban slavery, in 1416.
https://www.total-croatia-news.com/...ublic-abolishes-slave-trade-27th-january-1416

 

[LewieP]

I think that returning stolen historical artefacts would be a good start.

Also honouring historical commitments, like not deporting members of the Windrush generation.

Also ending forms of residual colonialism like .io domain ownsership, the continued existence of Non-Self-Governing Territories, and things like sweatshop manufacturing in developing countries.

Reparations is a conversation worth having, but far more urgent should be ending the type of activities that lead to a need for that conversation in the first place.

 

[Soap]

Depends on the nature of reparations. I think forgiving the debt we created and unfair subsidies we use to keep farmers in poorer countries under our thumb is a bigger, more active issue.

 

[Deleted member 41520]

Yes, especially to India, where as far as we know the British Empire committed borderline genocide in many regions.

See Operation Legacy.

We did so much fucked up stuff to so many countries.

 

[Soap]

Double post. Sorry.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

No reparations: not for medieval wars, not for colonies, not for occupation, not for world wars.

I hate how Poland or Greece still dangle the WW2 reparations in some EU issues. Some of the political parties in Lithuania are still under notion that Russia should pay reparations for occupation. You start opening checks for Soviet Occupation (30 years ago), the rabbit hole will go all the down to the Polish-Lithuania Union and Moscow.

All it does is creates a hostile situation which prevents further partnership. If one party believes that they can request millions or billions in cash for something, the relationship will never improve.

Instead of talking reparations, talk economy and cooperation.

 

[Kaseoki]

I'm a product of British colonialism. Any sort of reparations would bankrupt the UK (as much of a failure it is already with Brexit and all) so realistically it's not going to happen. The British Museum won't even hand back antiques they've stolen from other countries so any talk about reparations is laughable in their eyes.

However, I do somewhat see all these rose-tinted sentiments about 'Making Britain Great Again' with Brexit as a bit of karma for all the plundering they've done. Yeah go on, dig yourself into that hole by yourself Britain.

Don't rely on justice. Because the victors will always be in charge of that. Just be better than those colonialist powers.

 

[Anti]

HA! don't make me laugh, all the shit they stole all the people they killed, do you think they will return or give anything in exchange?

 

[GrizzleBoy]

The recent undertones borne of my very existence in what many feel to be "their" country and not mine despite me being born in the same hospital as them is more than enough for me to be anxious about.

We don't really need any more hatred swirling around imo.

It's kind of impossible in every way, socially, politically, monetarily.

The money isn't going to replace anyone's ancestral traditions, bring back murdered families, create a sense of belonging or community that comes from having a "normal" background that spans farther than only having the right to be an equal citizen since less than a generation ago.

It would only serve to create a situation where atrocities are more likely to happen due to more tension.

 

[LinkStrikesBack]

Maybe, leaning towards no. It won't actually happen either way.

The UK leadership are completely willing to cause the deaths of thousands, if not millions of the UKs own population right now, for an absurd politician agenda that only serves to fuck the populace, all on the back of a message to "stop sending foreigners money, and spend it on ourselves", when we massively benefitted from that spending. I can't even imagine the shitstorm sending a bunch of money as reparations for past transgressions would cause.

 

[Deleted member 25600]

Australia is a product of colonialism, but the UK giving stuff to us would do nothing for the indigenous peoples here. Any move by the Australia government to provide reparations for indigenous peoples would be met with frothing at the mouth outrage from conservative media, who I know would already view some of the various welfare programs available to them as good enough. So it probably wont happen soon, but it should happen.

 

[phonicjoy]

I'm in favor generally, but there are some issues. Some of our former colonies are still part of the kingdom and payments are being made for various purposes. Surinam has received payments but afaik the payments stopped due to the way the surinam government handled the december murders and its refusal to bring Bouterse to justice. Indonesia should probably receive some sort of compensation but a lot of Dutch companies were nationalised there so I dont know what the balance would be. The people already living here, I'm not sure about. I don't see what effect it would have on their lives honestly. We don't really have ghetto's with former colonial inhabitants like in france, we have a good social safety net. Perhaps something in the vein of extra funding for higher education would be appropriate. Most indonesians living here are of mixed decent, and their children don't have any sort of disadvantage, and they have never been enslaved or anything. Indonesia was weird in a general sense, as you had lots of kings treating their subjects like slaves at the time it was a colony. So yeah complexity all around. But I don't think we pay enough attention to the subject.

 

[Kaim Argonar]

As of now, no reparations.

I don't care if it's fair or not: If it's going to cost my country or people a single cent, I'm against it.
If my country or people could benefit from reparations, I'd be all for them.

 

[Kain]

The logic those oppossed to it use is the question: "How far do we go then?" and there is some validity there with regions where there have been various civilizations for thousands of years with migrations, wars and whatnot. But on the other hand it really wouldn't hurt to give back some stolen artifacts or at least apologize on behalf of your ancestors, as a start. I get it we are not the same people who raided the Americas or wherever but we can't be proud of our countries and its history if we don't accept the past wrongdoings.

Speaking about America for example there is the slavery issue, sure, but what about all the coups that the CIA and the American government have supported during the XX century? Should they offer reparations to Chile for example? Have they? (I'm asking here, I don't know). It's not only colonialism.

It's not an easy matter for sure, not in concept and certainly not in execution.

 

[Xiao Hu]

Of course it should, in what ever form. In the case of Africa, we can already do a lot. Forcing European companies to observe human rights and good workers treatment in their supply chain or cancel specific subsidies so West-African fishermen don't have their livelihood robbed by fleets of fish crawlers. More precisely, I want us to engage in investment that helps postcolonial countries to develop economically and socially. I'm talking about faaaar greater cooperations in the fields of academia, diffusion of technology, entrepreneurship, and law.

Edit: I find the ratio pretty despicable. Shame on you, EUra

 

[Dyle]

It should happen, but it won't largely because of how much more difficult it will be to do anything across international borders. Policies like reparations are already incredibly difficult for a country to implement within its own jurisdiction and dealing with the complex international legacy of colonialism only makes it harder. It's also silly to limit it to Europe, the US has its own, albeit shorter, fucked up history of imperial abuse

 

[Deleted member 1476]

*Britain starts sweating*

As of now, no reparations.

I don't care if it's fair or not: If it's going to cost my country or people a single cent, I'm against it.
If my country or people could benefit from reparations, I'd be all for them.

Click to shrink...

At least you're honest. Shitty, but honest.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

How about they start by not meddling and profiting off of those countries right now? Would already go a long way towards Africa being better off.

 

[Wiped]

The huge reparations bill forced on Germany for WW1 directly led to WW2 as that is what Hitler used to whip the country into a frenzy and rebel against Europe.

No. Move on.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

The huge reparations bill forced on Germany for WW1 directly led to WW2 as that is what Hitler used to whip the country into a frenzy and rebel against Europe.

No. Move on.

Click to shrink...

The situation in the OP and what you're referencing are totally different though.

 

[shotopunx]

Yes

As of now, no reparations.

I don't care if it's fair or not: If it's going to cost my country or people a single cent, I'm against it.
If my country or people could benefit from reparations, I'd be all for them.

Click to shrink...

What country are you from?

 

[Wiped]

The situation in the OP and what you're referencing are totally different though.

Click to shrink...

Not really. We are talking about leveraging repayments or recompense on a country for something that happened in the past. At least for Germant WW1 had only just happened.

 

[Kaim Argonar]

Yes

What country are you from?

Click to shrink...

Spain. I'm sure my country would have to pay reparations for the last few centuries. That's why I'm against it.

 

[Pellaidh]

I say they should, although that is from a perspective of European that does not come from a nation that engaged I colonialism.

If the UK could afford billions of pounds ( Guardian says 300 billion in today's money) to fund compensation for slave owners of all people, surely they could spend at least that much helping their former colonies. Or you know, the slaves instead of their owners.

At the very least, they could stop the current oppression, for example by returning museum artifacts to their origin nations. But even that isn't going to happen.

 

[Xando]

No friend of reperations because it opens the box of pandora.

How long can you claim them? How do you value life? Can I claim reperations from Italy for being descendants of the Roman empire? Who decides if a debt is paid? What is the money used for? Is it a direct payment? Do descendants have a claim? If so howdo they need to provide proof?

 

[phonicjoy]

The huge reparations bill forced on Germany for WW1 directly led to WW2 as that is what Hitler used to whip the country into a frenzy and rebel against Europe.

No. Move on.

Click to shrink...

Myth, move back in. It was used as an excuse but Germany racked up immense loans post war not related to reparations.

 

[Arjen]

No, European History is way to complicated to find out who owns who

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Not really. We are talking about leveraging repayments or recompense on a country for something that happened in the past. At least for Germant WW1 had only just happened.

Click to shrink...

No one can force European countries to give reparations to former colonies. That decision would fall on themselves, meaning that any amount given isn't going to cripple the "giving" country.

No, European History is way to complicated to find out who owns who

Click to shrink...

It's pretty easy, the country who administrated the colony would be the one giving reparations.

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

Absolutely.

 

[Plum]

It really depends on the type of reparations that are done. Simply giving other countries large sums of money, whilst it would help, would create a situation where the elite whose families caused colonialism get off scott-free whilst those at the bottom whose ancestors were dying of starvation and working in mines would get hurt; that would almost certainly lead to more right-wing fervour as they can use it as a scapegoat to deflect blame from the issues that actually face those at the bottom. That's not to mention the unfortunate potential for corruption in how the money is actually used (from both those who give it and those who receive it).

However I think programs for co-operation and indirect help would be very good overall. It would force those in power to come up with treatments/solutions to historical issues that actually require effort on their part, and it would at least mitigate some of the potential for the misconstruing of either the projects themselves or the intent behind them. We certainly need to be doing better than what we're doing right now with shit like the Windrush scandal.

 

[phonicjoy]

No, European History is way to complicated to find out who owns who

Click to shrink...

Perhaps in regards to European history, but colonial past is pretty recent. I'd say we owe something for our role in the slave trade.

Although I would like some spanish and french reparations. Maybe just let us have some beach resorts.

 

[CampFreddie]

No, because colonialism isn't something you can just pay off with money.

But we (the UK) should return the antiquities looted during the colonial era and stop treating our colonial history as if we were civilising the savage peoples (and sure, we enslaved them and took their stuff, but we gave them railways so it's all about even!)

But Boris is going to be PM and we're about to leave the EU, so prepare for the Imperial era to be romanticised like crazy.

 

[Acorn]

Depends on the policy.

 

[Creamx]

Yes, but it probably won't happen cause France kind of doesn't aknowledge its colonial past.

 

[Dr. Mario]

I think the colonial countries have some moral obligation to provide aid or student/cooperation programs (which I also think pretty much all of them do already), but reparations are nonsensical because outside of a few clear atrocities in the beginning of the 20th century (which could receive reparations), quantifying any kind of damage/gain amount hundreds of years later is politicized folly.

 

[PositivePolitique]

How far do you go back? It's such a complicated thing to calculate. There have been empires and atrocities committed by every State- if there was a time machine to calculate everything done over the past 100-2000 years, it would just be such a mess. And why should Europeans today, who do more for climate change, donate more to charity, and are the most progressive and educated societies in the world, have to suffer because of what people who happened to be from the same plot of land did generations ago?

 

[Vault]

Uk sends billions in state aid to former colonies 0.7% GDP every year

 

[Deleted member 37233]

No friend of reperations because it opens the box of pandora.

How long can you claim them? How do you value life? Can I claim reperations from Italy for being descendants of the Roman empire? Who decides if a debt is paid? What is the money used for? Is it a direct payment? Do descendants have a claim? If so howdo they need to provide proof?

Click to shrink...

Pretty much this.

 

[shotopunx]

Hell, a formal apology would go a long way in many cases. If the UK would even own up to the genocides committed....

 

[Big Boy]

I'm a Brit. I voted yes but we actually do this already kind of with the overseas aid... kind of.

However we as a nation need to actually acknowledge what the Empire did instead of pretending that the two things (aid and colonialism) are unrelated.

We should also return all the shit we stole, but that requires the above acknowledgment to happen first as well.

 

[Deleted member 862]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_for_International_Development

 

[johancruijff]

i'm not sure what you're asking
if the conversation happens will i support reparations, in one form or another? yes probably, hell with all the bullshit taxes we already pay put up another who cares ( or divert some of what we already pay to that, but that's wishful thinking...)

will this conversation ever start internally from european countries? lol

 

[collige]

How far do you go back? It's such a complicated thing to calculate. There have been empires and atrocities committed by every State- if there was a time machine to calculate everything done over the past 100-2000 years, it would just be such a mess. And why should Europeans today, who do more for climate change, donate more to charity, and are the most progressive and educated societies in the world, have to suffer because of what people who happened to be from the same plot of land did generations ago?

Click to shrink...

Generations ago? Africa didn't start gaining independence until the 1950's.

 

[PoppaBK]

I mean we would just be paying money to poor nations that are in debt to Europe, the US and other foreign powers and banks. It would be boomerang reparations, we give them money to assuage our guilt, they give us it right back because capatilism is given a free pass when it comes to exploitation, because they 'chose' to participate. It would be better to have some kind of debt forgiveness, to allow countries to get out from under the yoke of capatilism and participate as equals.

 

[Florin4k4]

I think even if you wanted to do reparations, it would be nearly impossible. Who decides who gets the money or lands etc or the amount?
What about the mongol invasion of Europe? Is Any country curtently responsabile for that? Never Gonna happen.

 

[Puroresu_kid]

Yes they should happen. Modern Britain was built on the back of slavery and colonialism.

The ending of slavery (while paying off all the slave owners) was not compensation for near 200 years of free labour.

Abolish taxes for all black and asian people for starters.

 

[Elandyll]

Just theoretical... does humanitarian aid (both in food, medical and straight up money) counts toward reparation? Because between the "colonial guilt" and just "doing the right thing", that's already $billions of dollars every year going towards countries where life is very difficult due to environmental and various other factors.

 

[EarthPainting]

It took Belgium until maybe three months ago to officially apologise for their segregation fuckery in Congo. Mixed race children were abducted and handed over to the church. Extremely late, but I suppose it's better than never. Belgium normally treats its colonial past with limp gestures, and the hope that no one acknowledges the reasons behind it. The only other time this country did anything substantial was when they apologised and paid reparations for their involvement in the assassination of a Congolese independence leader. The frustrating part is that both apologies were done by the same person, more than 15 years apart. It's almost as if we shouldn't expect much from the anyone else.

 

[anamika]