European regulator: Nintendo refund policy is unlawful

[Arthands]

https://www.forbrukerradet.no/side/nintendo-breaking-the-law/

The Norwegian Consumer Council (NCC) has found that out of the seven leading digital video game platforms, only Origin and Steam had adequate systems in place for refunding purchased video games. Out of the seven platforms, Nintendo in particular violates consumer rights by not offering any way to cancel a pre-ordered game.

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If a consumer, for whatever reason, wants to return a game that they have purchased through Battle.net, Uplay, Playstation Store, Xbox Store and Nintendo eShop, options range from contacting customer support, to no options at all.

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In a letter to Nintendo, the Norwegian Consumer Council asks the company to comply with European law on their platform; Nintendo eShop.

— When pre-ordering a video game, you have the right to cancel your order at any time before the release date. This should be a quick and easy process, for example by the click of a button, says Finn Myrstad, director of digital policy at the NCC.

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In a letter addressed to Nintendo, the Norwegian Consumer Council asks the company to explain why they are not complying with European legislation on their digital platform: Nintendo eShop.

— Nintendo needs to change their practice. They should comply with the law, and give consumers a clearway to execute their rights if they wish to cancel their order. Regardless of the system the platform has for pre-orders and refunds, the right of withdrawal should apply before the release date, Myrstad says.

The Norwegian Consumer Council trusts that Nintendo wants their customers to be satisfied, and that they will make the necessary changes in order to bring their platform in line with European law.

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[Sqrt]

Yep, and I will never understand digital pre-orders too.

 

[GuitarGuruu]

I'd have to side with them on this one, the fact that you can't refund a purchase after buying it is one thing, but you can't even cancel a preorder? I didn't know that was how it was and it definitely is anti consumer.

 

[zombiejames]

Digital distribution still has a long way to go.

 

[Aiustis]

Pre Orders should always be able to be cancelled.

 

[SeacatsAndCicadas]

Digital distribution on Nintendo platforms still has a long way to go.

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[Jaded Alyx]

Good.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

If you guys go on Nintendo Switch subreddit, you'd be surprised how many are bashing the regulators because they interpret this as a slight against Nintendo. They don't even realize that if you can make pre-orders in a store and have the ability to cancel, that the same should apply on a digital storefront.

 

[Slackbladder]

Why not just fine these companies and be done with it? I mean money is the only thing businesses understand. So take a few million away in a fine and they'll soon change. But then I'm biased. I really don't like businesses. At all.

 

[Deleted member 1413]

News was already posted

 

[Deleted member 9971]

If you guys go on Nintendo Switch subreddit, you'd be surprised how many are bashing the regulators because they interpret this as a slight against Nintendo. They don't even realize that if you can make pre-orders in a store and have the ability to cancel, that the same should apply on a digital storefront.

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I'm a big Ninty fan but that subreddit takes some things way too literal & personal sometimes. This would be a very good change for consumers. Console digital should catch up with steam refunds imo.

And yup preorders should be able to be cancelled aswell :P

 

[Axass]

Nintendo's digital policies are crap, nothing new sadly. I hope this official intervention changes things.

 

[Lunchbox]

Nah son, it's booty on Sony too.

 

[danm999]

If you guys go on Nintendo Switch subreddit, you'd be surprised how many are bashing the regulators because they interpret this as a slight against Nintendo. They don't even realize that if you can make pre-orders in a store and have the ability to cancel, that the same should apply on a digital storefront.

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Yeah and governments dinging Nintendo on stuff like this gives the voices inside the company fighting for reform and modernisation of their online platforms more ammunition.

 

[Ringten]

Do Playstation/Xbox have the option of cancelling a preorder? Besides the fact that I don't really see the point of pre ordering so far ahead anyway when it comes to digital

 

[DanteLinkX]

Why does the thread title say nintendo as if they are the only ones? It mentions you cant do it on xbox live and psn either? Shouldnt thread title be changed to "all the mayor consoles" or something?

 

[Klaphat]

Why does the thread title say nintendo as if they are the only ones? It mentions you cant do it on xbox live and psn either? Shouldnt thread title be changed to "all the mayor consoles" or something?

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The Norwegian Consumer Council (NCC) has found that out of the seven leading digital video game platforms, only Origin and Steam had adequate systems in place for refunding purchased video games. Out of the seven platforms, Nintendo in particular violates consumer rights by not offering any way to cancel a pre-ordered game.

If a consumer, for whatever reason, wants to return a game that they have purchased through Battle.net, Uplay, Playstation Store, Xbox Store and Nintendo eShop, options range from contacting customer support, to no options at all.

You can cancel a preorder in the other stores by contacting customer support. Seems like you can't even do that with Nintendo. And that is not legal in the EU.

 

[LewieP]

Bizarre thing to me is that reasonable/fair refund policies pretty much always increase sales, as it takes the risk out of purchaser, so people are more likely to part with their money.

That's why so many retailers offer reasonable refund policies.

 

[Anti]

And some people will still defend nintendo no matter what. Not have an option to cancel a preorder of a game that hasn't come out yet its so shitty and anti-consumer, I had no idea this was happening.

 

[BlackLagoon]

Really happy to see European consumer reps looking into online game distribution platforms. As these become more and more important, encompassing almost their entire game library for many, the current situation is untenable. Right now the platform holders maintain you have no rights whatsoever and that they can decide to strip you of your collection at any time without giving you any details why or a chance to appeal.

 

[Riderz1337]

Nah son, it's booty on Sony too.

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Read the OP maybe.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

Digital distribution still has a long way to go.

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Console users need to stop allowing these companies to take advantage of them. Honestly I'm glad I only touch single player exclusives and more often than not, I wait for the emulator to develop so I don't have to deal with the hardware itself. If I had to deal with their online network in general, I'd probably lose my mind as a PC gamer. I don't know how people do it, let alone justify some of these things.

Lack of refunds
Paid online (for what is based on peer2peer networking)
Paid basic functionality like cloud saves
Network instability despite people paying for it all

It's laughable and it's not just Nintendo fans letting them get away with it. Sony and Microsoft too.

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

Nintendo one step ahead on preventing preorder cancelled comments.

 

[Hardvlade]

Yep, and I will never understand digital pre-orders too.

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Pre-loading. Personally its the only reason I pre-order digitally, but I usually do it like a day before and do my research before doing so. I like to be damn sure I'm going to enjoy the game.

 

[ShinUltramanJ]

Not allowing your customers to cancel a preorder is shitty. You can do it in retail, you should be able to do it within their storefronts.

 

[Deleted member 7156]

It's a shame the title focus on Nintendo when they're not the only ones that have this issue, they're just the worst of several companies.

The Norwegian Consumer Council (NCC) has found that out of the seven leading digital video game platforms, only Origin and Steam had adequate systems in place for refunding purchased video games. Out of the seven platforms, Nintendo in particular violates consumer rights by not offering any way to cancel a pre-ordered game.

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More so than Nintendo, I think the bigger point is that all platforms but Origin and Steam have adequate systems in place for refunding.

Not a shocking factor but still extremely negative, and something that companies will hopefully be forced to correct soon.

 

[Laughing Banana]

.

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You also can't cancel pre-orders on PSN, so...?

 

[Lunchbox]

Read the OP maybe.

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I misquoted someone or rather their quote didn't get added to my post, too lazy to care about it.

 

[Deleted member 2145]

yeah this is good, digital shit on console has been ass backwards

 

[wbloop]

Recently had a huge issue with Sony issuing me no refunds for a DLC that made my game unplayable leaving me with uninstalling the game. Customer support told me they literally have no option on a support level to remove licenses from accounts, sooooo....

Buying digital still fucking blows, regardless of platform. Okay, maybe except for Steam and Origin :P

 

[Mark H]

This should be addressed to all console digital stores, in that they should all have cancel buttons.

 

[ASaiyan]

The problem is that digital preorder (at least with my experience on Switch eShop) is tied to preload. So you would need to be able to delete software from a user's device, or at least revoke their access license, which seems like it would cause new logistical and legal headaches.

On PSN, for example, you can lose access to your PS+ games and then regain it if you resubscribe. But if you ask for a refund on PSN (which they rarely even give), your account is usually permanently blocked from accessing that content. The key I think, is how much of this is just anticonsumer policy, and how much actually comes down to it being a huge pain in the ass for a company like Nintendo to keep track of for each individual account (which I honestly don't know the answer to). My ignorant guess is that this is something you would need to build directly into your online infrastructure to be able to reasonably keep track of.

 

[Pablo Mesa]

Digital distribution on Nintendo platforms still has a long way to go.

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Nintendo's digital policies are crap, nothing new sadly

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If a consumer, for whatever reason, wants to return a game that they have purchased through Battle.net, Uplay, Playstation Store, Xbox Store and Nintendo eShop, options range from contacting customer support, to no options at all.

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Keep the fanboyism low please

 

[Mark H]

The problem is that digital preorder (at least with my experience on Switch eShop) is tied to preload. So you would need to be able to delete software from a user's device, or at least revoke their access license, which seems like it would cause new logistical and legal headaches.

On PSN, for example, you can lose access to your PS+ games and then regain it if you resubscribe. But if you ask for a refund on PSN (which they rarely even give), your account is usually permanently blocked from accessing that content. The key I think, is how much of this is just anticonsumer policy, and how much actually comes down to it being a huge pain in the ass for a company like Nintendo to keep track of for each individual account (which I honestly don't know the answer to). My ignorant guess is that this is something you would need to build directly into your online infrastructure to be able to reasonably keep track of.

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I've seen people managed to get a refund on WWE2k18 Switch which was a broken piece of shit apparently, and Nintendo were able to disable the game access, so they definitely has the system in place.

 

[Dremorak]

Yep, and I will never understand digital pre-orders too.

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Quite a few digital preorders on eshop have discounts, and as someone who normally waits for a better price, saving even 15% at launch makes me feel better about taking a chance on some games.

 

[APOEERA]

Nintendo mysteriously doesn't let you use American Express or Discover for purchases just Visa/MasterCard only. They have Paypal on Switch which they never had even in Wii days. I think it's more of NCL not really understanding or willing to change than out of pure greed.

And Sony's move to ban access on accounts after offering refunds should get them sued.

 

[Animal Liberation Ⓥ]

Nintendo mysteriously doesn't let you use American Express or Discover for purchases just Visa/MasterCard only. They have Paypal on Switch which they never had even in Wii days. I think it's more of NCL not really understanding or willing to change than out of pure greed.

And Sony's move to ban access on accounts after offering refunds should get them sued.

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Where does it say that Sony bans for you requesting a refund?

They do it for chargebacks, but not when you call them for a refund from what I understand.

 

[Rowsdower]

Here's Polygon's report.

https://www.polygon.com/2018/2/21/1...-eshop-order-policy-consumer-rights-directive

Edit:

Nintendo mysteriously doesn't let you use American Express or Discover for purchases just Visa/MasterCard only. They have Paypal on Switch which they never had even in Wii days. I think it's more of NCL not really understanding or willing to change than out of pure greed.

And Sony's move to ban access on accounts after offering refunds should get them sued.

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I've gotten several refunds from Sony (some easy, some really difficult). They're never banned me. Are you referring to what happens if you chargeback a purchase?

 

[PetrCobra]

Where does it say that Sony bans for you requesting a refund?

They do it for chargebacks, but not when you call them for a refund from what I understand.

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Do you have to call Sony to get a refund? Certainly still better than not being able to get a refund at all like at Nintendo but damn, why do we still need to call anywhere unless it's a special request/emergency? Like, I haven't contacted my bank in years if I don't count a few events when I was confused about something and could have really easily solved it by myself. Why can't platform holders set up a process for refunds with clear rules? Their systems already know everything they need for it to be implemented. If I could easily return anything bought in the last few months that I haven't played for longer than an hour or so, I'd probably end up buying more games than I currently do, and probably only take advantage about the option occasionally. That's also probably the usual customer behavior, so I don't think platform holders should be afraid of this as they seem to be.

 

[captainraincoat]

Where does it say that Sony bans for you requesting a refund?

They do it for chargebacks, but not when you call them for a refund from what I understand.

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You request a refund through the US site they refuse it as its not law and will block your Id through the online chat function....you are also geoblocked from using help functions outside of your country...so if you have a us account but live in eu You better have a VPN.. same also for us/japan/aus accounts

 

[MegaManTrigger]

I'm a big Ninty fan but that subreddit takes some things way too literal & personal sometimes. This would be a very good change for consumers. Console digital should catch up with steam refunds imo.

And yup preorders should be able to be cancelled aswell :P

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I agree, all they needed to do was take a second to think about how this would've improved the eShop. Instead, it degrades into fanboy wars.

 

[Amaterasu]

Hope it gets worked out. Doesn't seem like it should be a big deal to change.

 

[JCG]

More countries, associations and regulators should try to follow the same philosophy and take action. Good for them.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Sony Too™

 

[spineduke]

I wouldn't emphasize on just Nintendo OP, all digital storefronts need to be more diligient. I'm glad that the EU managed to pressure Valve into it, and I'd be happy to see others follow suit. Being able to refund has done wonders for promoting sales on the digital side of things.

 

[FancyPants]

It's a shame the title focus on Nintendo when they're not the only ones that have this issue, they're just the worst of several companies.

More so than Nintendo, I think the bigger point is that all platforms but Origin and Steam have adequate systems in place for refunding.

Not a shocking factor but still extremely negative, and something that companies will hopefully be forced to correct soon.

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Two different things. The one you're quoting is for refunding games in general. The letter they're sending to Nintendo is because you can't even cancel preorders.

 

[Cranston]

You can cancel a preorder in the other stores by contacting customer support.

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I imagine those options fall foul of regulation too. As I understand it, cancellation should be as simple as a click of a button (much like Amazon).

 

[HotHamBoy]

Pre Orders should always be able to be cancelled.

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Digital pre-orders not being easily cancelled with a click is down right nefarious.

I shouldn't have to contact customer support or get my account dinged for cancelling a pre-order, either.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

Good. Digital storefronts on consoles are shit, and Nintendo's is the worst.

 

[Deleted member 11926]

I have to admit that I fail to understand why digital pre-orders are a thing. There is no issue of limited stock when dealing with digitally sold games. There is also no issue of having the game delivered in a timely manner because you can download it directly. Why would there be a need for pre-orders? (Genuine question).

The only reason I could think of is that some games have exclusive content locked behind a pre-order, which is a scummy practice and shouldn't be supported.