FF7 Remake's characters are wonderful and so much more fleshed out than before
- Thread starter Zen
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I feel a lot more attached to Aerith in the remake. I still think the original is better so far as far, however theres still more parts to go. On the whole I think the remake has a good chance to be on par with the original, in very different ways. Character building being one of the remakes strong points.
The characters are far better realised in this than in the original, which, I mean isn't exactly a feat. The original has text and very crude models and animation to deal with. You have the full scope of what's possible in the remake. It would require a failure of epic proportions to screw that up..
Regardless, I would say most of the character moments, interactions etc are very well done. By the end of chapter 16 I was incredibly invested, but by the end of the game I couldn't give less of a shit lol. So it's kinda incredible how much narrative decisions can influence that aspect of care for characters.
It feels obvious to me that you have to play all these other things to understand the context of all these big moments. Who is Zack? Why should I give a shit? It's not explained in the story..
Thats bad story telling.
Regardless, I would say most of the character moments, interactions etc are very well done. By the end of chapter 16 I was incredibly invested, but by the end of the game I couldn't give less of a shit lol. So it's kinda incredible how much narrative decisions can influence that aspect of care for characters.
It feels obvious to me that you have to play all these other things to understand the context of all these big moments. Who is Zack? Why should I give a shit? It's not explained in the story..
Thats bad story telling.
Barret and Jessie were great. The rest were about the same for me, except for Tifa, who was a step backwards.
Good characters can carry an empty or lacking story for me, but they can't save a shit one.
Jessie was wonderful in particular. I loved how they fleshed out the Avalanche trio in particular.
But damn Aerith stole the show for me. Like I had a crush on Aerith as a kid playing FF7 and I think I would have fallen for her all over again as a kid playing Remake too.
But damn Aerith stole the show for me. Like I had a crush on Aerith as a kid playing FF7 and I think I would have fallen for her all over again as a kid playing Remake too.
This concept is the foundation of the Kingdom Hearts franchise. Love the cast.
This is the worst take on anything I've ever read. What'd you watch someone play it on YouTube and then collect half gathered thoughts on 4chan?
These characters are phenomenal.
Main cast? Yes.
Bad guys? If only. Still kids cartoon villainy which is a bummer. I do feel like shinra could have been a more interesting org overall if stuff wasn't so black and white.
Bad guys? If only. Still kids cartoon villainy which is a bummer. I do feel like shinra could have been a more interesting org overall if stuff wasn't so black and white.
It's not bad story telling. For new players, it's a tease. This is a multiple games series. They will have that to look forward to in the future.
It's the same with the Marvel movies. They always have that after credit tease with new characters. As someone who never read any comic. I don't even know who those characters were. So why should I give a shit about them? I have that to look forward to in the next movies.
That's the exact thing she needed to say to get me to fall in love with her!!!
It gave me huge "A Walk to Remember" vibes and that was a really influential book for me growing up.
They were well-written and amazing characters for 90% of Remake. The way they interacted with one another and acted like real people...aces. I'm trying to wipe Chapter 17 and Chapter 18 out of my mind. It's not just the plot that goes downhill, but that the characters stop interacting like real people. But again, the rest was fantastic.
Lmao yea, I feel you, that line only ever has the opposite effect, assuming the character is good of course
That's actually a perspective I agree with, despite not liking what they did with the ending. I don't pay attention to Marvel stuff at ALL, but I'll catch those movies a year or so after. I then hear people talking about "Doctor Strange" and "Ant Man" and I cant help but laugh because they're like Zack to me ... they sound completely made up until I see them on screen. And then I typically end up enjoying the movies anyways.
i'm replaying the game right now in hard mode and just got to chapter 8. this may be my favourite part of the game because aeris's dialogue is just so good. the remake captured her personality perfectly
I'd agree with you if it was a 20 second post credit thing. But it was intrinsically part of the ending. Furthermore, when they're taking the time out of the story to tease future stuff in MCU movies, those are rightfully criticised as well.
Showing flashes of a meteor impact, or character moments like that, those are teases.
Furthermore, Zack isn't in the original is he? He was obviously put in because he's a fan favourite, and restraint isn't in Nomura's vocabulary. So the promise is, you'll either find out more about this character through a flash back in the next game, which would be hilariously underwhelming. Or he'll be a playable character through some narrative nonsense. Which, yeah i get it, a section of the fanbase would love.
And going back to lack of constraint, but again, constantly showing off Sephiroth, who is a complete mystery throughout the Midgar section of the original, is just pure pandering. Again, it's fine if that's what people want, but it makes for bad story telling.
Yeah in flashback. That's what i was getting at. Poor wording on my part.
First post and we're already done here!
I think you summed it up brilliantly Max, when you talked on one of your streams about how Chapter 6 (the underside of the Sector 7 plate mission) is carried almost entirely by the party dialogue, because otherwise that mission has pretty lousy level design and no memorable enemy encounters. But because the interplay between Cloud, Barret, and Tifa is at such a consistently high level of quality, it almost doesn't matter.
Disagree. As a newcomer, I didn't like the last hour or so. It was barely comprehensible, just a bunch of stuff that was clearly intended to tease the people that have already played the original.
It made far more sense and became much more interesting once I read up on stuff.
Completely agree, it's nothing like the MCU teases, I had no idea what has happening. I'll read up on it later at some point I guess.
I haven't finished the game yet but I have to agree. I especially like that they fleshed out the other Avalanche characters. They aren't just random NPCs you work with for a bit, they are definitely more characters and I care more about them. And I always found Tifa boring in the original and I really like her in this one. Put it this way, Aerith has always been one of my favorite characters of the game and this time I find them both equally likable. And Barrett is more fleshed out but still him really.
I still can't believe they got Aerith so right after doing her wrong for dirty for nearly twenty years. :')
It's too bad Tifa is still just as reliant on Cloud and as generally mopey as the original. They neglected to develop her own perfect drive to take down Shinra when its own product killed her father and destroyed her town.
Her relationship with Aerith though is perfect and when she shines most. Can't wait to see their relationship develop.
That and for her and Johnny to finally get together
It's too bad Tifa is still just as reliant on Cloud and as generally mopey as the original. They neglected to develop her own perfect drive to take down Shinra when its own product killed her father and destroyed her town.
Her relationship with Aerith though is perfect and when she shines most. Can't wait to see their relationship develop.
That and for her and Johnny to finally get together
She's actually more reliant and insecure in this version. Cloud repeatedly has to save/protect her even in scenes where she didn't need his help in the original, most notably when they jump off the train together. Hell, they even removed her forcefully reminding Cloud of his promise to her to try and make him stay, and gave him the line instead. I don't remember her constantly questioning their bombing runs against Shinra in the original, either. Plus it's so weird that she doesn't react at all to Sephiroth at the end. As you mentioned, the guy who she knows killed her dad and burned down her village? And she's just blank faced.
OG Tifa has moxie. Remake Tifa has none at all.
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agree with most but she's not getting with Johnny considering how much she rejects him in this. And Aerith was not wrong in the original... I just think she's much better in this remake.
It's an excellent script. The dialogue sings, characters have strong voices without becoming one-note, it can be genuinely laugh-out-loud funny when it wants to be. Every character has a rapport with each of the others; it feels like every possible permutation of the main squad (and even side characters) is given some time in the spotlight to form a bond on screen. You can sit down and think through each character's personality, their motivations, what they think of every other character. It's just so well done.
Of course she wasn't done wrong in the original! I'm referring to everything that came after.
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Yeah Aerith and Cloud needed character rerailment the most, and I'd say they pulled it off.
Im curious if anything from remake will carry over to Kingdom Hearts, Dissidia, and such.
Im curious if anything from remake will carry over to Kingdom Hearts, Dissidia, and such.
In addition to the godly music, the characters and their interactions with each other are the best part of the game for me. I've never been as much invested or cared as much as I do than the characters in this game. This game hit me emotionally like no other game and it's because of the characters. I absolutely love what they did with Aerith in the remake and she is by far my favorite character.
It definitely helped that Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith actually had GOOD voice actors for once rather than the crappy ones they had in the compilation.
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For me her not reminding Cloud of their childhood promise made her better. That was long ago and they were kids, she's an adult now and treats Cloud like one. I liked that she didn't hang on their childhood. She's been through a lot and her personality reflects that. I agree with the train jump, but it can be viewed as just shipping fodder. I also like that she questions the bombing missions. Destroying the reactors will slow the destruction of the life stream, but at what cost to the people that rely on them? She wants to stop Shinra, but not cause harm to innocent people. I don't believe that makes her a weaker person, in fact I'd say she's a stronger character for it.
I think I feel the same way about Tifa here. Also... the train section if you let the timer run out, Tifa jumps out herself and Barett too.
The FFVIIR cast has been an absolute joy. I didn't think it was possible to love them more than I already did, but then FFVIIR came along. On the one hand, they had fantastic groundwork with the characters from the original game to build on -- but they had that same groundwork for the Compilation/Kingdom Hearts/Dissidia games, and the characters ended up just shallow caricatures of their former selves in the spin-offs. Aerith and Cloud shine the most for me in FFVIIR, probably because they'd previously felt so disconnected from the original incarnation of the characters. I love the fleshing out of Tifa and Aerith's friendship, too.
The only character I'm ehhhh on the updating of is Sephiroth, which is a long spoilery conversation.
FFVIIR did such a wonderful job with the interactions with the FFVIIR-1 cast, that I can't wait to see what they do with Cid, Yuffie, Vincent, and Cait in the future, along with more time with Red.
I really hope the English localization team returns, too, I think the last time genuinely laughed out loud this much at a video game was Tales from the Borderlands. I'd love to see what the same team would do with Cid.
For me, moment to moment Tifa shines (she's got a great sense of humor, and her ethical quandary with wanting to bring down Shinra but not wanting to hurt innocent people is compelling), but there are still some choices overall that I find really disappointing with her character. There's a few moments damsel-ing her that are really frustrating, and considering her backstory, there are some real missed opportunities with her interacting with President Shinra and Sephiroth. I know her storyline is entangled into Cloud's, but I'm hoping she'll get her own subplot independent of him, which I always felt was lacking in the original game. The following aren't brilliant ideas, but maybe a subplot with Zangan, as I don't think we find out what happens to him, or something to do with Tifa's early days in Midgar that she now needs to resolve in the present day.
This, too. I think FFVIIR evolved her character in some interesting ways, but also had some setbacks in other areas. Overall, I'm pretty happy with her character.
The only character I'm ehhhh on the updating of is Sephiroth, which is a long spoilery conversation.
FFVIIR did such a wonderful job with the interactions with the FFVIIR-1 cast, that I can't wait to see what they do with Cid, Yuffie, Vincent, and Cait in the future, along with more time with Red.
I really hope the English localization team returns, too, I think the last time genuinely laughed out loud this much at a video game was Tales from the Borderlands. I'd love to see what the same team would do with Cid.
For me, moment to moment Tifa shines (she's got a great sense of humor, and her ethical quandary with wanting to bring down Shinra but not wanting to hurt innocent people is compelling), but there are still some choices overall that I find really disappointing with her character. There's a few moments damsel-ing her that are really frustrating, and considering her backstory, there are some real missed opportunities with her interacting with President Shinra and Sephiroth. I know her storyline is entangled into Cloud's, but I'm hoping she'll get her own subplot independent of him, which I always felt was lacking in the original game. The following aren't brilliant ideas, but maybe a subplot with Zangan, as I don't think we find out what happens to him, or something to do with Tifa's early days in Midgar that she now needs to resolve in the present day.
This, too. I think FFVIIR evolved her character in some interesting ways, but also had some setbacks in other areas. Overall, I'm pretty happy with her character.
The problem is that her worrying about the bombing mission isn't used for any kind of character development for her. Instead, it's used for Cloud. Tifa tells him she feels trapped because she's not sure about Avalanche methods, but she's incapable of telling anything to Barret, or even telling Cloud to stay like in the original. Instead, this moment serves as Cloud's character development because it goes from him not caring at all to caring about Tifa whe he's the one reminding the promise, and ending up joining the mission after the ghost fuckery. And the biggest problem is.... that's it, once it happens, that thing stops being a plot point, so there's absolutely nothing tifa gained from this. She never ends up confronting her or Barret or anyone about it, there's no grownt for her after this. That's because she's used as Cloud's plot device, a complain that she already had in the original, and feels even more here.
It doesn't help that she just flat out doesn't interact with characters she should, like as said with Sephiroth. She feels like an empty character other than being there to be a Cloud character. Add this the constant worries from here every 5 steps and her having to be saved every chapter, even by fucking Leslie, LESLIE! and that's why I feel like her character wasn't treated as same as the others, and ended up being worse than OG, even though OG was simpler.
The only thing that they did better with her is fleshing out her friendship with Aerith, that was a little awkward in the OG because it never felt like it happened.
Btw, I want to add, the Avalanche trio are the ones that benefited the most in the Remake, they were really cool.
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I'm struggling to remember atm, but when is she saved by Leslie? I also don't recall what points she needed to be saved...the person that kept getting into the damsel role that I remember is Jessie. Girl has things dropped on her 3 times, like damn
Leslie goes to save her and Aerith, but they take care of the goons themselves.
Tifa and Cloud both save each other multiple times.
This was done on purpose though. Hence the DLC not switching perspectives. The whole narrative style of FFXV was fixed and you were with noctis the entire time and didn't know more than he did from his perspective. It is a very hard choice to make and pull of but I think they did it. But it seems alot of people didn't catch that and simply prefer they handled it more like older Final Fantasies have done.
yall are crazy, the game gives no motivation for seph and yall think the characters are better? yawn
She's only mopey when the plate falls on her home, and I mean... it's kind of understandable at that point. She's got fun moments outside of that. Like mimicking President Shinra's voice or shooting down Johnny's hopes and dreams. Thing is, she's not supposed to be like the outgoing Aerith. Her character has always been the quieter and more reserved of the two despite her brawler combat style.
Maybe in your playthrough
Tifa and Cloud still banging out in mine yo
She does intervene when she thinks Barrett is going too far with President Shinra. The problem is, Tifa and the others find out pretty quickly that Shinra was responsible for the casualties from the reactor and not Avalanche. The game doesn't really want to commit to making Avalanche look like they might be in the wrong so her inner conflict never goes anywhere as a result. You can't really do the whole "are we going too far?" thing when Shinra is literally wiping out entire towns and killing thousands of people. Still, it's probably more than what she got in the OG Midgar section. Tifa doesn't really become a more prominent character until the second half of the narrative.
I am still picking up brain pieces of the floor after having my mind literally blown with all those insane 4D chess theories.
God damn.
Also very curious how they will treat Cid's abuse and misogynism towards Shera.
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No buddy, I spent 40 hours playing the game only to see it well and truly fall to pieces by the end of the game.
Go play the original (because you clearly have not), and then come back to me.
The characters in the remake are 10x better than in the original.
Instead of rolling your eyes, explain why you think otherwise. At the end of Chapter 17, their motivations became entirely unclear to both the player, and the characters themselves. They change, literally, on a whim, because of a complete ass pull by Nomura with the Feeler/Whisper concept. How do those characters remain 'good' in any way, shape or form? They lose all self identity in an instant. SE were doing OK with the direction they had taken each character until that point. All they had to do was continue to follow the script that was laid out 20 years ago. To then fail to expand each character but rather sap them of all drive at the point makes it extra impressive.
This is my exact issue with the characterisation in this game and I'm glad you could see it too. I'm extra harsh on it because like I said above - until then it was OK (nothing amazing). But Nomura has a strange obsession with fates and he let that take precedence over whatever was built up until that point.
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