I believe the part where the FIA/FOM put it out there for teams to host him. The question is why McLaren didn't say no.
Yeah, I'd have to look at the footage of the hit again, but I only remember the orange part of the bollard going up over the car. The black part of the base may have gone under, they were well separated by the time everything landed.
You can see the carbon fiber from the impact here:
View: https://x.com/dr_obbs/status/1787458978512880059?s=46&t=SucPH5kpfW8WPiEaZSjGoA
It's a bit easier to see in the video here:
View: https://x.com/f1speed_indo/status/1787528284517060668?s=46&t=SucPH5kpfW8WPiEaZSjGoA
The papaya turd now... I was going to wear my McLaren hat to a car event today but could't bring myself to put it on, and wore a Goodwood one instead. My eldest son bought me the McLaren hat, and he's got lots of Mc stuff as well :(
The thing I'm trying to weight up, and not say fuck McLaren (just yet) is the team is not just Zak and Lando, but is a massive group of people who had nothing to do with yesterdays bollocks. I imagine (and certainly hope) there are very many within the team that are deeply upset and pissed off about it, and I hope they speak up if that is the case, but I fear the damage is done.
Outside of the races I don't engage in F1 stuff, online or elsewhere, but I hope there is criticism other than here, and if so I hope it's heard by those in the team. Not sure how they can make amends though, even if thay wanted too.
When Max himself is saying he didn't feel any difference, I don't think it can really have been all that bad honestly.
Look, yeah it's annoying that Trump was there and ruined a feel good story of Lando's first win, and yeah his response to Trump being there was annoying as well, but come on move on and forget about it.
I liked mclaren before and I'll like them after. I'm not going to wear my mclaren hat because some dumbass showed up and made a scene. Sure they could have refused F1s request to have him there and they should, but it would have been some other team having him in their garage instead. Then you'd be pissed at the other team, so it's just stupid optics for one weekend.
Its a sport full of (mostly) rich entitled millionaires and billionaires who when you look into their politics and affiliations you're probably not going to like what you see.
I liked mclaren before and I'll like them after. I'm not going to wear my mclaren hat because some dumbass showed up and made a scene. Sure they could have refused F1s request to have him there and they should, but it would have been some other team having him in their garage instead. Then you'd be pissed at the other team, so it's just stupid optics for one weekend.
Its a sport full of (mostly) rich entitled millionaires and billionaires who when you look into their politics and affiliations you're probably not going to like what you see.
True, but for me Trump is such a disgusting figure - a sex pest, a criminal, and an enabler of the most toxic side of humanity, someone who has made the world (not just the US) a worse place for many, actually placing them in direct harm, and here he comes again trying to be president of the most powerful country on the planet for a second time... and McLaren thought it was ok to let this POS in, and give him a warm welcome.
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Sad thing is a lot of the drivers and principals are either airheads or right-wing nutcases who hide it well or don't quite stepover the a line that we draw in the sand in some arbitrary place which is rarely that clear. Sure having Frumpy Pigskin in the garage and Lando waxing lyrical about him is probably about as clear as you're gonna get. But these people also are quite happy to go racing in places where they cut off body parts or imprison people for normal every day shit and they keep their mouths shut and while we might grumble, we still go on cheering because it wasn't quite over the line "um im just here for the racing I dont really know what day of the week it is".
Your Macca gear doesn't represent yesterday. It represents nearly 60 years of remarkable incredible history and that's what anyone else sees when you wear it. Be it memories of Senna or Prost or GP2 Engine or 2008 or even Bruce himself. Don't let that papaya twat ruin it. Do send them a letter or an X or whatever the fuck it is called now.
I'm sure there are plenty in the team unhappy about it but they all have mortgages to pay and job in that sector are finite. They can't go to Red Bull because Horney will try and sext them, they can't go to Mercedes because they have some self respect, they can't go to Aston because they hate all Spanish people ever, and they can't go to Ferrari because they put ketchup on their spag-bol.
Sad thing is a lot of the drivers and principals are either airheads or right-wing nutcases who hide it well or don't quite stepover the a line that we draw in the sand in some arbitrary place which is rarely that clear. Sure having Frumpy Pigskin in the garage and Lando waxing lyrical about him is probably about as clear as you're gonna get. But these people also are quite happy to go racing in places where they cut off body parts or imprison people for normal every day shit and they keep their mouths shut and while we might grumble, we still go on cheering because it wasn't quite over the line "um im just here for the racing I dont really know what day of the week it is".
Your Macca gear doesn't represent yesterday. It represents nearly 60 years of remarkable incredible history and that's what anyone else sees when you wear it. Be it memories of Senna or Prost or GP2 Engine or 2008 or even Bruce himself. Don't let that papaya twat ruin it. Do send them a letter or an X or whatever the fuck it is called now.
Not counting on it. Post race podcasts are starting to trickle out for the ones I casually follow and nothing yet. Which isn't surprising I guess, none of them are American. Probably best because I can very much see a rationalization that Lando was put in a bad position he had no recourse for like he's some fucking child. Multiple people could have said no but didn't give enough of a shit, so is what it is. Sport ain't shit outside of the racing. We're still all just casually watching while Horner walks about like he wasn't accused of employee misconduct.
Hard to even feel good about Newey reportedly leaving the team in part because of it, as the conversation is every other team with their tongues on the ground salivating over hiring him.
Absolutely not - should we just have one guy not obeying any rules and ruining peoples races cause it's fun when the cars go boom? I'm all for a good bit of chaos but not when it's by design of a single driver just acting like a muppet on the track. If it rains in the middle of a race and half the field are scrambling on slicks to get back into the pits thats good chaos. When it's a driver intentionally driving people off the track and crashing into them then thats just wacky races and it sucks.
Right. This has been in my thoughts as well, that there is more to the team than the present moment, and McLaren has a long rich history as you describe. To be an F1 fan does mean you have to try an overlook some pretty awful stuff that runs deep through the sport, which makes me feel dirty.
That gave me a good laugh.
Thought they may be more, even for non US casts, as Trump's influence and notoriety goes way beyond the US... Oh well.
Ah, its not the cone but the base(?) that hit the floor.
View: https://twitter.com/redbulletin/status/1787482660631392744?t=9UvS9AxF9Mcrc-G34-k_tw&s=19
Not for me. It's basically one driver constantly cheating knowing that it won't affect him and people behind can't do the same.
Imagine in '21 if Bottas or Perez kept cutting every corner and chicane just to hold up Hamilton or verstappen. No one would stand for that in those circumstances and they shouldn't in this one.
Yah that makes sense. I was just confused cause they kept referencing the cone and not the big metal base.
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A certainty.
They'll also somehow claim that Latifi caused a red flag or that the top 11 get points or something, but they will at least cover the orange turd.
Agreed. If anything he just exposes the flaws in FIA rules that should then be fixed, using the rules as written is not something we should blame the drivers for.
But also overall I think making most penalty at least 10 seconds from this season has been a clear failure.
With cars this close getting 10 seconds for even the smallest of infractions means your race is just ruined at that point. You might as well help your teammate since a 10 second gap is impossible for most of the cars in the field to meaningfully make up. And getting more penalties changes nothing.
Most people I see are then clamouring for harsher penalties instead, like forced drive throughs for going off the track, but that is insanity to me. We need to allow drivers to race and not be scared that even the smallest mistake means they are absolutely out of the race. That won't lead to good battles, but only safe overtakes.
The real solution to me is just to award points for every finishing position on the grid. Then you won't ever see a crazy defense like this since ruining your own race will also ruin it for your team.
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The fact that a +10 second penalty is not a deterrent for drivers(named Kevin) highlights a problem and I don't think the solution is to remove them. You either deter bad racing or you don't. Kmag knows how to defend with his elbows out and be clean. He's actively choosing not to and that's shameful.
It's not a deterrent for anyone. Dragon Puncher is right. If you get a 10 second penalty you are screwed unless your name is Verstappen. You might as well help the team at that point.
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Just taking on more and more time penalties is not sufficient IMO, especially in cases where you could get 10 and it will make no difference to your race.
How about you get a 10 second penalty and if you get another before the first has been served then both get combined to become a single drive through.
Kmag is playing the game, just like Max used to. You do it until you get told off, and if the punishment isn't strong enough to stop you, you keep going. That's the whole sport at the end of the day. He's just taken driving to the same level as, for example, flexi wings. Everyone knows they are flexing, the rules/tests are being adhered to or punishments metered accordingly, something should change.
How many chicanes can I cut to stay ahead before I get forced to pull over? Because it looks like the answer is about 27.
How about you get a 10 second penalty and if you get another before the first has been served then both get combined to become a single drive through.
Kmag is playing the game, just like Max used to. You do it until you get told off, and if the punishment isn't strong enough to stop you, you keep going. That's the whole sport at the end of the day. He's just taken driving to the same level as, for example, flexi wings. Everyone knows they are flexing, the rules/tests are being adhered to or punishments metered accordingly, something should change.
How many chicanes can I cut to stay ahead before I get forced to pull over? Because it looks like the answer is about 27.
The problem is that the penalties as they are now aren't working, I think that is something everyone can agree on. So something needs to happen.
And just to make it clear, KMag did not admit to purposefully breaking the rules and FIA couldn't prove that he did. If they could he would probably have been hit with unsporting behavior.
My hot take is that the new rules for overtaking and the harsher penalties are bad and they are deterring drivers from making ballsy moves or coming up with creative overtaking spots.
The FIA is seemingly wanting to define what fair racing is more precisely than before for the sake of consistency, but motorsport simply isn't an exact science.
With how heavy, stiff, large the cars are and the kind of tracks they are raced on, it gets especially tricky at times. Obvious stuff like cutting the chicane should be penalized, sure. But Stroll getting a 10 second penalty for very slightly going off track to finish his move on Albon? Not sure I agree with that.
The FIA is seemingly wanting to define what fair racing is more precisely than before for the sake of consistency, but motorsport simply isn't an exact science.
With how heavy, stiff, large the cars are and the kind of tracks they are raced on, it gets especially tricky at times. Obvious stuff like cutting the chicane should be penalized, sure. But Stroll getting a 10 second penalty for very slightly going off track to finish his move on Albon? Not sure I agree with that.
The bigger problem is different stewards at different races having different interpretations of the same rules. We're here now with "who was significantly ahead at the apex" rules because of the wacky racing in 2021. The rules may hinder creative racing but at least you can sort of point to SOMETHING now. I will always prefer a black and white defined rule you can point to rather than stewarding being re-invented on the spot for every corner incident. That said they should nominate and choose a set of stewards for each season and then fly those same people out to all the races for that particular season, then rotate them out.
And maybe actually pay them, crazy thought I know.
I do agree that permanent stewards would be better, but I am a little worried about how the fandom would take to permanent stewards they know the names of and can create endless conspiracy theories about.
I wish I could. I've rooted for McLaren since I started watching F1 in 2000. This isn't just a political difference though. Trump attempted a coup to overthrow free and fair elections. I can't hand wave that away just because he was not successful. It's gonna take a long time before I can ever root for McLaren again.
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It's a tough situation since we really wanted these harsher penalties because people could just force people off the track for an easy overtake if they knew they could easily pull a 5 second gap after getting passed them. That just happened a heap of time during last season. But now you race is obviously screwed the second you get such a penalty.
I think awarding points for every finishing place and keeping the 10 second penalty is probably the only way, Still big risks for flirting with risky maneuvers but your race isn't immediately pointless from that point on.
I think awarding points for every finishing place and keeping the 10 second penalty is probably the only way, Still big risks for flirting with risky maneuvers but your race isn't immediately pointless from that point on.
Why stop at
Looking like a Final Fantasy character, as always. 🥵
Unrelated, but I was watching Sesame Street with my son, and then I realized Rudy reminds me of Norris for some reason.
Looking like a Final Fantasy character, as always. 🥵
Unrelated, but I was watching Sesame Street with my son, and then I realized Rudy reminds me of Norris for some reason.
It's the dead empty stare.Why stop at
Looking like a Final Fantasy character, as always. 🥵
Unrelated, but I was watching Sesame Street with my son, and then I realized Rudy reminds me of Norris for some reason.
all four wheels off the track = penalty/give place back within 3 laps - unless you had no choice becuase you were pushed into that position by another driver.
overtaking - adjust how far along the attacker needs to be for the other car to give space (or add blind spot warnings on the steering wheel like we can have flags on sim racing setups). Caveats to this
- if you're on the outside you can easily give more space
- if you're on the inside it would require stewards to consider if it is reasonable if they dont' hold their line - eg based on approach speed to corner. Both drivers should consider this and not assume automatically that the inside car can magically stick to the track.
Any car in a battle - whether attacking or defending - should ensure space is provided to the other driver to not force them off the track or cause a collision. If they do, then either a penalty to the driver forcing, or at minimum the receiving driver is not penalised for going off the track and gaining an advantage.
It does feel like - aside from the 'what do do about an inside line divebomb if the driver claims they just washed wide' - it could be regulated for tighter than it currently is
I generally agree with what you said, but in the stroll/albon case albon went right out to the edge of the track whilst stroll was significantly alongside, so stroll was pushed off track...but got the penalty for "leaving" the track and gaining an advantage.
Different stewards seem to have different definitions of "push" versus when the inside driver can just nail the throttle and run right to the track edge.
Imho they should revert to "if someone is significantly alongside, space at all times". And define that as front wheel of one car at or beyond rear wheel of other car.
Then we could have more battles like the alpine at the start, with side by side running across multiple corners.
The current "everyone tries desperately to be ahead at the apex and then can nail the throttle and do whatever the fuck they want" is a bit shit. It means the vast majority of overtakes have to be completely done in the braking phase and makes the apex and corner exit phase irrelevant.
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The problem was that with the old rules Perez was just barging into people and taking a 5 second penalty because he knew in 7 or 8 laps he'd be at least 5 seconds ahead.
They had to do something and this was the solution many wanted, but clearly when you don't force a driver to yield, stacking him with time penalties that have no consequence doesn't work. Now we wait for Fernando to take it to level 11.
Ignoring all the recent stuff, it makes no sense whatsoever that time based penalties are the same value for a race 30 minutes long and 90 minutes long. Someone could claim it "kind of" works because the 90 minute race often has safety cars so the time gaps between cars at the 90 minute race won't be 3x the time gaps at a 30 minute race...but they're still going to be a lot more for the vast majority of cases (there's also the "giving up" period where gaps don't lengthen because everyone has to settle for where they are and save engine/gearbox/fuel)
Halving the time value for the sprint race would be the most sensible imho.
Stacking penalties like Kmag did should come under some umbrella rule about unsportsmanlike behaviour or some such. I don't know if the stewards didnt use something like that because, it doesnt exist, or they were too scared to use it, or they didnt feel his driving was beyond that threshold.
Halving the time value for the sprint race would be the most sensible imho.
Stacking penalties like Kmag did should come under some umbrella rule about unsportsmanlike behaviour or some such. I don't know if the stewards didnt use something like that because, it doesnt exist, or they were too scared to use it, or they didnt feel his driving was beyond that threshold.
Give a 10 second penalty and if the driver does something that would warrant a further 10s penalty then give them a drive through.
Did they actually get rid of drive through penalties or is it just something where there hasn't been an incident serious enough to warrant it?
Did they actually get rid of drive through penalties or is it just something where there hasn't been an incident serious enough to warrant it?
Make a 10 second drive through access road.
like this perhaps
View: https://youtu.be/J1_f9OMePtA?si=I4P7rqeZCNOBl-D2
like this perhaps
View: https://youtu.be/J1_f9OMePtA?si=I4P7rqeZCNOBl-D2
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Drive through still exist, Lewis just got one for being way over the pit speed limit.
But most of the time these drivers are not doing enough clearly dangerous moves that a drive through is warranted. People can hate on Mag all the want, but nothing he did in the sprint was dangerous. Against the rules of course, but not actually dangerous.
And the thing with drive throughs is that the cars are so close now that pretty much any car getting a drive through except the very front might as well just leave the race after getting essentially at least 25+ seconds on their time.
Back when drive through were more prominent, the top cars could also lap all the rest of the field easily and getting 25+ seconds was not impossible to make up. That is pretty much how it is today, so we should be careful what we wish for. I don't think races become better if they feel this dictated by stewards.
But generally I also just feel like rules changes have made stewarding worse. The standing that they never warn drivers that they need to give back a position, simply leads to stupid scenario's where teams don't believe they'll get a penalty (since many calls are not exactly black and white), so they don't give the position back and then they get a penalty without warning and their race is done, since it is at least 10 seconds on their time, which sends them back 4-6 places.
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That's the point though. If you accumulate 2x 10 second penalties nothing stops you from staying on track and just getting time added to your race time, while you slow everyone down to advantage your team mate.
If you get 2x 10s time penalties and have not yet served one, giving a drive through solves both of those problems because it HAS to be served (unless it's not handed down until the last couple of laps or after the race, obvs.)
Always hilarious to see these 2 clowns fighting with each other.
Horny - who only thinks with his trouser area said:
Horny is one of the most talkative and shit stirring team principles on the grid, and the entire article and set of quotes IS him getting sucked into a tit-for-tat about who's really leaving who. Just an amazing lack of self-awareness.