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DHC-Shannow

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,326
Manchester, England
Just throwing this out there, and I'm being 100% serious, but considering their connection why hasn't the FIA consulted Polyphony Digital about circuit design? Playing GT over the years their original circuits are always top notch and the recent batch of circuits for GT Sport produce great racing with a lot of the character fans clamour for. It's bizarre Tilke is the be all and end all for this sort of thing in the FIAs eyes.

You might find this vid interesting...



Yeah you do wonder why it's always Tilke but as the vid says he's kinda found a recipe for tracks now despite a few missteps along the way. Oddly enough the favourite F1 tracks tend to be very much a product of the environment like Spa and Suzuka.
 

DBT85

Resident Thread Mechanic
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Oct 26, 2017
16,311
Since I worked out how to embed podcasts now, if you don't listen to F1:Beyond the Grid I really suggest you do. 54 eps now with all sorts of folk, old drivers, new drivers, principals, even one with Murray Walker himself. A great interview series talking about more than just "what gear did you take Les Combs in".

Each one is just an interview from 45-70 mins long with one person.

Some of my faves of the ones I've listened to.




 

Fisico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,106
Paris
If Vettel was to leave Ferrari (that's a big "if"), who could be a serious candidate for replacement?
Ricciardo has to have a get out clause if he gets an offer from Ferrari/Mercedes I imagine.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
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21,467
If Vettel was to leave Ferrari (that's a big "if"), who could be a serious candidate for replacement?
Ricciardo has to have a get out clause if he gets an offer from Ferrari/Mercedes I imagine.

Not next year but at the end of the current era I wouldn't rule out Hamilton moving over to Ferrari. He'll have most records broken or equalled by then probably, Mercedes may not stay on top with the new regulations and he expressed he'd drive for Ferrari if the chance is right. It's still the team he's most likely to win a title aside from Mercedes.
 

kVH2LpZd

Member
Apr 3, 2019
954
Since I worked out how to embed podcasts now, if you don't listen to F1:Beyond the Grid I really suggest you do. 54 eps now with all sorts of folk, old drivers, new drivers, principals, even one with Murray Walker himself. A great interview series talking about more than just "what gear did you take Les Combs in".

Each one is just an interview from 45-70 mins long with one person.

Some of my faves of the ones I've listened to.






I saw the recommendation here earlier in the thread and started listening with the Schumacher specials. It's really good.

I then listened to the Hamilton one and now I can't hate him that much anymore... :D
 
Oct 25, 2017
712
If Vettel was to leave Ferrari (that's a big "if"), who could be a serious candidate for replacement?
Ricciardo has to have a get out clause if he gets an offer from Ferrari/Mercedes I imagine.

Ricciardo according to himself is stuck at Renault with no release clause, and I don't see Ferrari paying a big release fee for a B level driver, he can look forward to getting crashed into by his new Renault team mate in their midfield battles.

Hulk on a one year deal then throw $60m per season to tempt Verstappen or Hamilton for 2021+
 

Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,017
If Vettel was to leave Ferrari (that's a big "if"), who could be a serious candidate for replacement?
Ricciardo has to have a get out clause if he gets an offer from Ferrari/Mercedes I imagine.
Camilleri or Elkann would make one hell of a driver. No need to pay a real driver when you have guys like them in the team already.
 
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DBT85

Resident Thread Mechanic
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Oct 26, 2017
16,311
I saw the recommendation here earlier in the thread and started listening with the Schumacher specials. It's really good.

I then listened to the Hamilton one and now I can't hate him that much anymore... :D
ahh glad someone saw them, felt like I got totally blanked. Wondered if I was Wax and everyone just had me on ignore.

Yeah someone else said that about Hamilton after listening to one, though I think he said it was one with a mechanic or something and he mentioned Hamilton.

My work is done. #44
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,143
Chesire, UK
If Vettel was to leave Ferrari (that's a big "if"), who could be a serious candidate for replacement?

If Hamilton has Schumi's records by the end of 2020, I can see him wanting a seat in the prancing horse for 2021.

Winning a WDC with a third team would cement him as a true legend of the sport, not just one-of-the-greats but someone to stand alongside Fangio, Ascari and Schumacher in the Pantheon of F1 Immortals.

Winning the WCC with Ferrari would also do great things for his broader legacy, as it would dampen down the bitterness of the Tifosi towards him.
 

BlackFyre

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,430
If Hamilton has Schumi's records by the end of 2020, I can see him wanting a seat in the prancing horse for 2021.

Winning a WDC with a third team would cement him as a true legend of the sport, not just one-of-the-greats but someone to stand alongside Fangio, Ascari and Schumacher in the Pantheon of F1 Immortals.

Winning the WCC with Ferrari would also do great things for his broader legacy, as it would dampen down the bitterness of the Tifosi towards him.

Well, Hamilton will have 6 this year. And unless Ferrari or Redbull can take another step forward, he will have his 7th.

Once he has his 7th he has to be discussed among the Schumachers and the Fangios.

He would have wins, pole records as well.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,143
Chesire, UK
Well, Hamilton will have 6 this year. And unless Ferrari or Redbull can take another step forward, he will have his 7th.

Once he has his 7th he has to be discussed among the Schumachers and the Fangios.

He would have wins, pole records as well.
He's already discussed as one of the greats, and I would argue strongly that he already is, but going to Ferrari and winning there pretty much removes it from the realms of discussion.

Love them or hate them, there's something undeniably special about Ferrari.
 

DBT85

Resident Thread Mechanic
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Oct 26, 2017
16,311
lewis to Ferrari would be terrible as I'd actually have to root for a Ferrari

TBH, Lewis will be like 36 by the time he gets his 7th (assuming its next season).

I suppose Ferrari might try and get him, but it seems a bit old for Lewis to come in, learn all the weird Ferrari ways, engine, etc in time for the new regs.

I'd have thought teams would want to keep drivers between new and old regs just for the sake of stability.
 

Deleted member 2254

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Was there even a race in Spa in 98? Holy shit!!!


I love Spa, while we had our share of snoozefest races too there (see 2007), it produced so much memorable stuff throughout the years it's insane. Even beyond this video's highlights, on top of my head I'd mention:
  • The dramatic pile-up caused by Grosjean in 2012 which started erasing Alonso's massive points lead in the championship, an accident that could have almost killed him as well when a car bounced off inches away from his head.
  • That time in 2005 Raikkonen was lapping 2 seconds faster than the rest of the field. Remember, there were no tyre changes that year and the pack was usually pretty damn close.
  • The video mentions 2009 for the Force India pole, but it was also the first KERS win, courtesy of Raikkonen who passed cars left and right (and off the track, to be fair) at the start and at the safety car restart, after a pile-up in the back took out championship leader Button.
  • Schumacher's outstanding results on this track, from his first time in an F1 weekend qualifying 7th in the Jordan, to the 7 wins there and then some.
  • The video mentioned 1998, but that race had much other going on too. Continous harsh rain caused another messy start after the red flag, multiple big accidents, Coulthard intentionally crashing out the leader Schumacher while being lapped (he admitted it a couple years later), Jordan's shock 1-2 with Hill's last win in F1, etc..

It's by far one of the best tracks in the history of F1, and we're lucky that the bus stop being changed (into something that isn't necessarily worse imho) is the only thing that happened to the layout in a long time. It's one track I look forward to every single year for sure, even in years where the result seems to be written on the wall long before the first practice.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,084
If Vettel was to leave Ferrari (that's a big "if"), who could be a serious candidate for replacement?
Ricciardo has to have a get out clause if he gets an offer from Ferrari/Mercedes I imagine.

IF Ricciardo has a get-out clause then he's the likely candidate they'd go after. Realistically though I think after this season they'd probably be happy with LeClerc as their 'best' driver and someone like Bottas in the 2nd seat as a safe pair of hands who can help develop the car but is familiar with racing in a front-running team.
 

SweetVermouth

Banned
Mar 5, 2018
4,272
Coulthard intentionally crashing out the leader Schumacher while being lapped (he admitted it a couple years later)
He didn't intentionally crash him out. He later admitted it was his fault which he didn't think it was back in the day, but he didn't do it on purpose. DC actually wanted to let Michael pass because he was being lapped, he just chose a stupid way to do so. This is not crashgate.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,143
Chesire, UK


FUCK.

I thought we'd finally seen the back of this shitty track.

It's great for testing, but the racing there is (and always has been) abysmal.
 

Deleted member 2254

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FUCK.

I thought we'd finally seen the back of this shitty track.

It's great for testing, but the racing there is (and always has been) abysmal.


Eh, there's worse. At least it's fast and there's gravel, which brought us some occasional drama. I'd certainly take 10 races over there than as many around Tilke tracks across Asia or Paul Ricard.
 

AnilP228

Member
Mar 14, 2018
1,220
Eh, there's worse. At least it's fast and there's gravel, which brought us some occasional drama. I'd certainly take 10 races over there than as many around Tilke tracks across Asia or Paul Ricard.
This is one track that would massively benefit from the 2021 aero rules. Ironically it will probably be off the calendar by then.
 

BlackFyre

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,430
lewis to Ferrari would be terrible as I'd actually have to root for a Ferrari

TBH, Lewis will be like 36 by the time he gets his 7th (assuming its next season).

I suppose Ferrari might try and get him, but it seems a bit old for Lewis to come in, learn all the weird Ferrari ways, engine, etc in time for the new regs.

I'd have thought teams would want to keep drivers between new and old regs just for the sake of stability.

The biggest get will be Verstappen when his contract runs out.

He's already World Champion material with multiple wins and still under 25. He will easily become the highest paid driver ever. And everyone will go after him - and rightly so.

Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull will all be after him.
 

DBT85

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Oct 26, 2017
16,311
Think he has another 2 years to go. Whoever has the clear #1 car is exactly where he will go.

The Mercedes team is now so consistent, it's hard to see them drop. Although with the 2021 regs, we'll see if there's a change in the guard.
And therein is going to be Max's problem.

Does he take his chances with RB, Newey and Honda as Honda finally work out how to make an engine for a whole season and the new regs mix things up? Does he make a bid for a Merc seat? Are Ferrari going to come knocking and have him in the car with Leclerc? Or will they make a bid for Lewis? That in itself could be the only way Max gets into a Mercedes before 2024.

Bear in mind that it's clear Merc didn't like having 2 fast drivers in the last couple of years with Nico. They gave Bottas a shot, could have got Danny who would be a clear upgrade but went with Bottas again. If Lewis signs another 3 year deal with Merc I'm not sure they would want to take Max on until the end of that deal. Mercedes NOT signing what could by then be a nearly 7 time WDC, even at 34, when you're going into new regs would be unlikely imo. With that much change going on, some stability is important to a team.

Max will continue to win races, but depending on how much the new regs bunch up the teams (if at all) and depending on all the other factors at play, Max could easily get to 30 and have been in a good seat, but not a great seat, its happened plenty of times before.

Remember Fernando after he left Renault the first time as a freshly minted 2x WDC. Who could possibly imagined at the end of 2006 that he would go on to race for Mclaren, Renault again and Ferrari before again going to Mclaren before retiring, only to win 17 races in 12 seasons and 226 races! Alonso won 15 other F1 races, in 4 seasons and 71 races before he left for Mclaren.

Silly season 2020 is going to be interesting as fuck. Right now Vestappen, Hamilton, Vettel & Riciardo all have contracts that expire at the end of 2020 with potentionally very big reg changes coming the very next season.
 

Deleted member 2254

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Max will continue to win races, but depending on how much the new regs bunch up the teams (if at all) and depending on all the other factors at play, Max could easily get to 30 and have been in a good seat, but not a great seat, its happened plenty of times before.

Remember Fernando after he left Renault the first time as a freshly minted 2x WDC. Who could possibly imagined at the end of 2006 that he would go on to race for Mclaren, Renault again and Ferrari before again going to Mclaren before retiring, only to win 17 races in 12 seasons and 226 races! Alonso won 15 other F1 races, in 4 seasons and 71 races before he left for Mclaren.

Silly season 2020 is going to be interesting as fuck. Right now Vestappen, Hamilton, Vettel & Riciardo all have contracts that expire at the end of 2020 with potentionally very big reg changes coming the very next season.

Yup, people tend to forget how many factors are in play when talking world championships. Everyone kinda just assumes Verstappen will beat all records, but to do that he'll need to be sitting in a world championship capable car (which means best car or only a couple tenths behind the best car - you simply can not make up a one second difference with skills alone) for at least 10 or so seasons, which is not a privilege many drivers got in the history of this sport. Hamilton and Schumacher had such a car for long enough (percentage-wise, Lewis probably had the most races/seasons in top tier cars), but so many others didn't.

Alonso was arguably the most complete driver throughout 2008-2013, and yet he ended up with a whopping 0 titles in that timeframe. Raikkonen was absolutely dominant for a while, and yet he only has one title next to his name in only about 5 seasons where the car was close enough to the title-winning machine. Mika Hakkinen was perhaps the driver who'd be able to challenge Schumacher the most in terms of drivecraft and mind games, and yet, after his 2 titles he endured two hit and miss seasons only to retire from the sport altogether. Meanwhile, Vettel sat in a dominant car for almost 5 consecutive years, and indeed he walked away with 4 easy titles, even in years Alonso (or Hamilton) were driving a lot better than him.

Or let's talk about how being in the right car at the right time brought titles to people who never really would have won in any other circumstance. Button seemed on the verge of retiring from F1, only to accidentally find himself in a dominant car and win a title after having a whopping 1 race win next to his name prior to that season. Nico Rosberg also never looked like he'd escape the "great but not among the best" driver tag, only to narrowly beat Hamilton in one of the most dominant cars of the past decades after a bit of luck with reliability and stewarding in particular. Or shall we talk about Jacques Villeneuve who narrowly beat Schumacher who was driving a considerably slower car - and indeed after said title his results have been rather hit and miss?

If Max keeps being in cars like the current Red Bull, that is cars that are capable of fighting for race wins (hardly ever in a dominant fashion) about half of the season while the other half he's lucky to fight for 3rd, he will not win titles unless some major fuckery happens at the rival team, something akin to McLaren 2007 (intrateam battle costing tons of points), Ferrari 2008 (driver, team and reliability issues), Benetton 1994 (the penalties), Red Bull 2010 (tons of points lost to retirements from the lead), McLaren 2005 (same). We can argue top teams will be having a bidding war for him, but nobody will know before the first races who's got the best car, and by then it will be too late to change an on-going contract.

Nobody expected Renault to practically disappear after 2006. Nobody knew Red Bull will not compete for a single title after 2013. Nobody knew Ferrari wasn't gonna win a title for over a decade after dominating the last one. Nobody knew McLaren wouldn't be scoring a podium for years. People laughed at Lewis joining Mercedes as it was a mid-tier team, then he won 4 (soon 5) titles with it. And so nobody knows if Mercedes will stay dominant in the next era or struggle to score points. If Ferrari turns dominant again or just stay close to the lead like the better part of this decade. If Red Bull can become a contender at every venue and not just sometimes. If some other team pulls out some unexpected magic like Brawn or Red Bull in 2009. Max could win 10 titles or 0, and much of this is not in his hands. If titles were awarded to the best driver each year, the Formula 1 stats would look rather different.
 

Deleted member 2254

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I just wanted to correct this bit: in 1997, Jacques beat Schumacher by 81 points. He won the title with a 39 point margin over HHF in 2nd place :p

Fair enough considering Schumacher got DSQ'd from the championship on the final race :P But yeah, that car was lightyears ahead of the competition, Schumacher winning that title would have been one of the most ridiculous wins ever in terms of how big the gap was from the fastest car. In a way it happened in 2005 when McLaren was at times like a second faster than the rest of the field, but that became a moot point when the car fell apart every other race.
 

BlackFyre

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,430

He really is. Raw natural talent.

That's what infuriated Rosberg. Lewis would party and show up and get pole, while Rosberg had to go through data to find areas to improve. He pretty much abandoned his baby daughter and wife to win that 2016 title. It was so crazy that he had to retire.

Hopefully we'll get a documentary one day about their pursuit if the 2016 title.
 

DBT85

Resident Thread Mechanic
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Oct 26, 2017
16,311
Just listened to the Johnny Herbert episode. Didn't know about his crazy crash in F3000. Also, Briatore is a cunt.

 

Dan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,963
Just listened to the Johnny Herbert episode. Didn't know about his crazy crash in F3000. Also, Briatore is a cunt.



johnny-herbert-1988-crash.png


This was his crash. Its amazing he walked again let alone won f1 races only 6 years later
 

DBT85

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Oct 26, 2017
16,311
johnny-herbert-1988-crash.png


This was his crash. Its amazing he walked again let alone won f1 races only 6 years later
JFC, its exactly how he described it.

Was in so much pain when he came back at Rio that he ended up banging his foot so hard it went through the pain barrier and just kind of turned off. Finished 4th. Briatore and the rest of the shits at Benneton didn't say a word to him.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,737
He really is. Raw natural talent.

That's what infuriated Rosberg. Lewis would party and show up and get pole, while Rosberg had to go through data to find areas to improve. He pretty much abandoned his baby daughter and wife to win that 2016 title. It was so crazy that he had to retire.

Remember when Lewis dropped the mic last year at Singapore, arriving after being in like 6 cities in 10 days for the launch of his first fashion line, and just crushed it in Qualifying.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,094
Looking at the standings, Kimi is probably in second place in the 'other teams' race (i.e not Merc/Ferrari/Red Bull) - behind Sainz. Seems a good performance so far. Giovinazzi is way down though
 

FriskyCanuck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,063
Toronto, Canada
There is another possibility, Ericsson could have been sacked by the SPM IndyCar team.

The team that becomes the McLaren IndyCar team next year. Maybe they're evaluating Conor Daly as a driver for them next season.

And so with nothing else to do, Ericsson will of course accompany the Alfa Romeo team to Spa in his role as reserve driver.
 
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