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ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,636
Yes, I know I just made another similar thread about FF7R's execution of Midgar as a setting compared to the original, but after playing further into the game I just can't shake this analogy that keeps coming to mind: Final Fantasy 7 Remake feels like a "Twin Snakes" interpretation of FF7.

If you're not familiar with the Twin Snakes GameCube remake of MGS1, just know that it has long been mercilessly mocked for its goofy, outlandish re-telling of MGS1's events. Much like FF7, MGS1 was a landmark PS1 title that blew people's minds on release and still very much holds up today. And much like Twin Snakes, FF7R feels like a cringe-inducing, over-the-top retelling of the legendary game that inspired it.

4467919-screen%20shot%202015-03-24%20at%209.13.04%20pm.png
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I'm not gonna stand here and act like FF7R is anything but a well-crafted modern action-RPG. It's a supremely polished labor of love that brings some interesting ideas to the table with regard to combat, and certain scenes and/or elements of the original are recreated with care here. I also fully recognize that remaking even a portion of a PS1-era JRPG with modern fidelity is an incredibly daunting proposition. But the whole time I've been playing this remake I find myself thinking, "I sure hope nobody plays this as their first and only FF7 experience." Because, honestly, I think someone playing FF7R who never experienced the original might think to themselves, "This is the game people go crazy over?"

NO. It's not. FF7R is a cheesy, rigidly linear, and tonally inconsistent take on an all-time classic. The original FF7 that people rave about is on another plane of excellence from this for more reasons than I have time to cover. The atmosphere, the music, the scope, the characters... all of it is not only different in the original, but also just flat-out better than what we get here in this remake. It's like someone took the Midgar portion of FF7 and blasted it to hell with an Advent Children gun before sprinkling in some weird story wrinkles of its own (you know the ones).

barret.jpg

Don't even get me started on Barret in FF7R

FF7 is a game that I've revisited a few times in recent years, and it still absolutely captivates me. I'm sucked into that world every time, even viewing it through today's modern gaming lens. While playing FF7R, however, half of the time I'm actually, literally wincing or rolling my eyes at the voice acting, the goofy NPC models, the excessively silly cutscenes, the weird story additions, the overly muted and/or excessively bombastic remade musical tracks, and the tonal disparity when compared to the original. It feels like a run-of-the-mill shonen anime plot in the remake. Maybe you could argue that the original's plot could be accused of the same, but its delivery was worlds apart.

Now I know that this game has received great critical reception and is generally considered to be among the best modern remakes of classic games, but I've gotta say I'm struggling to understand that right now. I'm not incredibly far into the game (just got to the church with Aerith), but I've seen enough to feel compelled to make this thread.
 
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AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,120
I can understand the criticisms of FF7-R, but I cannot get behind this comparison.
 

Skel1ingt0n

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,756
I can kinda, sorta see the comparison.

That said, MGS Twin Snakes is my favorite MGS game (with MGS being neck and neck as my favorite franchise with Zelda)… and FFVII Remake is my favorite FF game since IX. So, I approach both with a completely different perspective than OP, lol.

EDIT: To add - FFVII:R is probably my favorite gaming surprise of the last five years. I was very excited for it before release and even earlier with the constant barrage of rumors. I bought it day one for PS4, but was so pre occupied with Persona 5 Royal that I didn't actually get to FF until the PS5 re-release, and boy - I was just absolutely flabbergasted by how damn impressive everything is.

The town NPCs suck and some of the side quests are pretty lame. The combat doesn't REALLY open up until the last quarter of the game. And there's a smidge too much back-tracking in a couple chapters…. But that's it. Other than those things, this game is a massive winner with incredible graphics, an Insane soundtrack, excellent animation and voice acting, a sweeping story with excellent dialogue… and most importantly - a combat system that's an utter blast.
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,438
so square enix's next game is going to be on par with too human?
 
OP
OP
ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,636
Yeah, they're superior takes on the original game hand crafted by the people who worked on the originals.

First of all, Kojima and his team did not create Twin Snakes. Silicon Knights did with very little involvement from the original team whatsoever.

Secondly... Twin Snakes is superior to the original? Is that satire, or are you being genuine?
 

Laser Ramon

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,629
I see people call FF7R rigidly linear… Did none of you play the Midgar section in the original??
 

Firestorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,709
Vancouver, BC
First of all, Kojima and his team did not create Twin Snakes. Silicon Knights did with very little involvement from the original team whatsoever.

Secondly... Twin Snakes is superior to the original? Is that satire, or are you being genuine?
Kojima had plenty of input on Twin Snakes including the decision to make the cutscenes more over the top. That's his vision. It's pretty believable given the rest of the series is similarly over the top.

Personally I could never get past the racist voice acting direction in the PSX version of the game. I'm not sure who in localization decided that people born and growing up in the US should have foreign accents just because of their ethnic background, but I'm glad the same voice actresses got to come back and do them again.
 

Truno

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Jan 16, 2020
4,855
I feel this is one of those moments where I appreciate that I didn't play the original, and instead I simply enjoyed FFVII: Remake on it's own merits.

A lot of people harp on the fact that it isn't a 1-to-1 remake of the original. It's best enjoyed when you realize that this is a brand new modernized vision of the original, not a direct remake. The more I disassociate it from the original the more I personally enjoy it
 

Pharaoh

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,676
No, despite some flaws FFVIIR is a awesome game. Twin Snakes is pure trash.
 

Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,828
The thing about Twin Snakes is that future MGS games eventually caught up to it in terms of the same campy, ridiculous, over the top action and acting. Twin Snakes was a vision of the future for MGS.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,252
Cheesy and tonally inconsistent is what makes FF7R so fun. They totally nailed that feeling of FF7 where it's extremely serious, yet totally goofy, and 100% earnest about both sides.
 

abrack

Unshakable Resolve
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,788
DFW
No.

7R is a fantastic game, not even remotely close to goofy Twin Snakes. I also have a couple friends who tried 7R as their first Final Fantasy (and one of them his first JRPG period) and both loved it.
 

overtoncanon

Member
Mar 14, 2021
213
Nope.

Twin snakes = pathetic butchering of a 5 year old game that did not need a remake.
7 Remake = nicely crafted reimagining of a 23 year old game in a new combat style.
 

PepeElToro

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,642
Twin Snakes is great cheesy cutscenes and all.
FFVII Remake is not. Turned a 6 hour segment of a 30+ hour game into a 40 hour game.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
I quite liked Twin Snakes, the gameplay was improved with a lot of quality-of-life fixes and the game was more cinematic. For me it's the definitive version of MGS1.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
This is actually a very apt comparison, but I also think that FF7R and Twin Snakes are good games that fall a little short of their near perfect originals
 

NuclearCake

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,867
Twin Snakes was recognizably Metal Gear with some nice gameplay improvements and some unfortunate downgrades in some other areas.

FFVII Remake is an entirely different and much worse game than the original.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,439
I'll never understand the hate for Twin Snakes, it's a pretty faithful remake and the over the top cutscenes matches the cutscenes of later installments which basically demonstrates that it is in sync with "Kojima's vision".
 

Protoman200X

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,574
N. Vancouver, BC, Canada
A lot of people harp on the fact that it isn't a 1-to-1 remake of the original. It's best enjoyed when you realize that this is a brand new modernized vision of the original, not a direct remake. The more I disassociate it from the original the more I personally enjoy it

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I'm having a great time with the game, and I can't wait to play Yuffie's side-story. But I feel like I'm in the minority with this opinion here, as most of the players who played the PS1 game are upset that it isn't 1:1 with the original, never mind that ol' Silverhair isn't this mysterious, high-functioning psychopath like in the original game.

Meanwhile, I'm having a ball with Cloud's facing the owner at the Honeybee Inn in a dance-off (followed up with cross-dressing the part to sneak into the sleazy Don's palace), and I adore Aerith being this tough cookie that brushes off Cloud's standoffishness with remarkable patience. She's honestly great, along with the rest of the cast. Barret in particular is the teams heart, and I really dig that he exists in such a prominant role in the game.
 

davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,639
www.squackle.com
The voice acting was redone, and it had the first person shooting of MGS2, which basically broke the game. Beside those, yes, it was largely the same game

well, yeah, i knew as much when my roommate played it on the GameCube -- i just had him play and I watched it since i wasn't into the series back then.

wasnt there also some sort of issue with removing the gamecube controller so it wasnt part of the PsychoMantis fight?
 
Jan 29, 2018
9,402
Twin Snakes is almost entirely a 1-1 remake of the original but adds first person aiming and in one of the cutscenes Snake does a backflip.
 

Lord Fanny

Banned
Apr 25, 2020
25,953
well, yeah, i knew as much when my roommate played it on the GameCube -- i just had him play and I watched it since i wasn't into the series back then.

wasnt there also some sort of issue with removing the gamecube controller so it wasnt part of the PsychoMantis fight?

I don't think so? The controller thing with Mantis was the same from what I remember, but I could be mistaken. It's been awhile
 

NuclearCake

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,867
As disappointing as FF7 Remake was it was not as bad as Ratchet and Clank remake. Which went out of its way to shit on the original.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
As disappointing as FF7 Remake was it was not as bad as Ratchet and Clank remake. Which went out of its way to shit on the original.
....it was fine?

The original R&C is one of the worst in the series lol, not saying it's bad, but I mean 2 and 3 were drastically better and the series continued well from there.
 

NuclearCake

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,867
They cut whole levels and the levels design was worse across the board. The soundtrack was worse, way more generic. The story is horrible. The difficulty was nuked from orbit. Sure the original wasn't as good as the two sequels on PS2 but the remake isn't even fit to lick the original's boots.
It is one of the worst remakes I have ever seen. Besides the shiny graphics, I don't think anything was a real upgrade over the original.
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,812
I agree with whoever said FF7R felt like The Hobbit movies.

As for this thread, I disagree. Twin Snakes is actually entertaining.
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,717
OP couldn't be more wrong lol

also OP I think you need to replay the original if you're talking about being tonally inconsistent and linear.