You know what? I completely cosign this.
I hate Twin Snakes way more, but they're both equally grandiose, spectacular misfires.
I hate Twin Snakes way more, but they're both equally grandiose, spectacular misfires.
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Final Fantasy 7 Remake is to FF7 as Twin Snakes was to MGS1
- Thread starter ScOULaris
- Start date
- Sony Square Enix
it's just a really different game. I don't really enjoy it but I get that people do. My wife really wants me to finish it so I've gotta get back to it… but it just has nothing on the original for me. I just prefer the turn based combat, the pacing and the pre rendered backgrounds of the original.
The combat and the visuals are obviously conscious choices to change, but the pacing is the most egregious unnecessary change. The side missions just feel totally unnecessary and the games just really been padded.
I honestly don't hate twin snakes the way many do, but I understand the comparison here. I think it will age similarly in people's minds, ie. people will pick it apart more and more with time.
The combat and the visuals are obviously conscious choices to change, but the pacing is the most egregious unnecessary change. The side missions just feel totally unnecessary and the games just really been padded.
I honestly don't hate twin snakes the way many do, but I understand the comparison here. I think it will age similarly in people's minds, ie. people will pick it apart more and more with time.
Oooh, this is a good comparison.
This too.
preach!
as someone who's replayed the original several times, i tried playing the remake twice, & couldn't get past the first few hours either time. 'tonally inconsistent' is an understatement...
TLDW: We literally have Cait Sith making a joke re-introduction in the middle of a tense moment where a manipulated Cloud is beating Aerith to the ground.
Not really a good comparison methinks. Twin Snakes is dramatically more similar to it's original structurally, story wise and gameplay wise.
At the end of the day only one Metal Gear Solid game does not give Mei Ling a racist voice. So I tend to go with that one. Also FF7R is not actually a remake lol. It's a sequel to the original game and it's many spin-offs/sequels. This is a very apples to oranges comparison.
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I liked it more than MGS1. Those early psx games had the textures freaking out and the gameplay was kinda clunky.
Its more silly with the cutscenes, but MGS is already over the top silly af so it didn't seem out of place.
But as has already been said, FFVIIR isn't a remake, it's a sequel. It's not really a valid comparison to make.
I'm not sure what you can compared FFVIIR too besides something like Rebuild of Evangelion. And Anno somehow nailed that last movie.
I suppose bad is hyperbole. I think it's an game, but I don't think the gameplay changes from MGS2 to Twin Snakes lend themselves well to that game. The first person camera breaks it quite a bit. I think it just needed some tuning in the gameplay side of things to make it work that much better.
Weird thread. They're both remakes I suppose? In any case, Twin Snakes gets a lot of guff for the over-the-top cinematics but it actually plays much better. As someone said earlier, worth it for the QoL improvements alone.
FFVIIR is... also good? I think the Hobbit comparison is funny. On the one hand, it's way better than those movies. On the other, like those movies, it's been stuffed to the gills with too much extra stuff. That aside, it's a great adaptation of a great game. Most of the characterization tweaks are in the right direction (and could've gone further tbh); the combat system is different but fun; it was (especially the early parts of the game that this is) a pretty linear, early cinematic game, so I guess I don't really see the issue with leaning into exactly that for the remake. It is definitely bloated though and I wish they had just made the whole game as one remake.
FFVIIR is... also good? I think the Hobbit comparison is funny. On the one hand, it's way better than those movies. On the other, like those movies, it's been stuffed to the gills with too much extra stuff. That aside, it's a great adaptation of a great game. Most of the characterization tweaks are in the right direction (and could've gone further tbh); the combat system is different but fun; it was (especially the early parts of the game that this is) a pretty linear, early cinematic game, so I guess I don't really see the issue with leaning into exactly that for the remake. It is definitely bloated though and I wish they had just made the whole game as one remake.
I do not really feel the comparison. Twin snakes was the first game with the mechanics of the second (and I would argue that not modifying the level design despite that choice that was a mistake) and bombastic cutscenes while FF7 Re is like a complete reimagination of a classic that fills the plot holes, deliver a better script that at least is in proper English and expand the story (since it's an obvious rebuild a la Evangelion movies).
C'mon you can't be serious. While the goofiness I present throughout the series, Snake was never portrayed as gravity defying superhero like he is in TTS..
Yeah, fooling you is the point.could've fooled me:
You're not supposed to realize it's a sequel until the end.
I played FF7r without playing the original and absolutely loved it!
I then tried to play the original and bounced of hard, and quit playing it quite quickly.
So there are definitely people for who this is their first FF7 experience and love it.
They're both unnessacary products that failed to best their origin game; one is a bloated convoluted mess of a story and the other is pure dogshit.
Did you actually play the original? Because "cheesy, rigidly linear and tonally inconsistent" is exactly what the original FFVII was and it was a point of debate before the release of the remake, a lot of fans feared they would remove the cheesiness from the game and make it too serious. I can't take anything you write seriously when you clearly don't remember anything from the original game.
I haven't played MGS, so I can't comment on the comparison itself, but imo it's silly to criticize FFVIIR for being cheesy and inconsistent as if the original game itself wasn't exactly that.
VIIR has moments that stand out as ridiculous in the vein of anime and current Japanese game trends, sure. But that doesn't mean VII was a single consistent tone throughout, that its ridiculousness is inherently better than the Remake, or that it doesn't contradict itself. I'm sure part of it is that we have voice acting now, which can make dialogue sound way different than when you read it.
Like, the original has Cloud say "Let's mosey" (or, in Japanese, say "Let's go" like a spunky anime protag) before the climactic final battle against a physical god. You have to do a squat competition in order to cross dress to infiltrate a mob headquarters. You can steal Tifa's underwear, and she--an accomplished martial artist--has a full on slap-fight during a kaiju attack. The party flat-out states their motivations for saving the world before the final battle.
I love FFVII, but it has quite a bit of cheese.
VIIR has moments that stand out as ridiculous in the vein of anime and current Japanese game trends, sure. But that doesn't mean VII was a single consistent tone throughout, that its ridiculousness is inherently better than the Remake, or that it doesn't contradict itself. I'm sure part of it is that we have voice acting now, which can make dialogue sound way different than when you read it.
Like, the original has Cloud say "Let's mosey" (or, in Japanese, say "Let's go" like a spunky anime protag) before the climactic final battle against a physical god. You have to do a squat competition in order to cross dress to infiltrate a mob headquarters. You can steal Tifa's underwear, and she--an accomplished martial artist--has a full on slap-fight during a kaiju attack. The party flat-out states their motivations for saving the world before the final battle.
I love FFVII, but it has quite a bit of cheese.
This was my experience as well. FF7R was my first FF game. Tried FF7 after that just to experience the original and even though i forced myself to complete disc 1, i just couldnt continue anymore.
This was my first FF7 experience and I fell so hard in love with it that I immediately jumped head first into anything and everything Final Fantasy I could get my hands on.
As for why I loved it? Well... that's a different thread.
And as someone who is also crazy about Metal Gear and who isn't as down on Twin Snakes as most, I'm gonna echo what most others are saying here: nah.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks the Rebuild trilogy (+01) is the most direct comparison out there. Not a stretch at all, whereas almost every other comparison I've seen feels like it's about to sprain something. It's obviously in conversation with, and building off of the original.
If you compare It to the original part that covers (roughly 5-7hrs of gameplay), yes.
Never played the original but that remake game is absolute magic. Love the setting, the characters, the themes, and it plays incredibly. I think the perception that it's this totally bloated thing comes from people comparing it to the the original. On its own terms its pacing is actually pretty snappy.
My only problem is the episodec full price nature of the game. I will wait until I can everything as one package.
And I was interested in trying FF7R, but if it's as bad as twin snakes…
But the rest of the series isn't nearly as over the top. It has characters that are over the top (cyborg ninjas and vamp, for example), but the rest is relatively grounded. Snakes never really do anything remotely as crazy as what TTS Snake does. Snake doesn't dodge bullets, jump on missiles or does unnecessary flips.
FF7R pretty expertly captured the vibes of the original Midgar segment imo. Up until the last handful of minutes of the game it pretty much recreated my remembered imaginings of the low poly events of the original, and where it deviated (The whole Honeybee Inn segment) it does so in a way that still captures the absurdity of the original in great ways.
The biggest failing is the game trying to start taking itself too meta-seriously in the last moments, and retroactively peppering in hints to support it.
All I want is a modern retelling of the original game. Most of FF7R is that to a perfect T. The combat is also imo the best action RPG combat of all time. Perfect mix of turn based and active play.
The biggest failing is the game trying to start taking itself too meta-seriously in the last moments, and retroactively peppering in hints to support it.
All I want is a modern retelling of the original game. Most of FF7R is that to a perfect T. The combat is also imo the best action RPG combat of all time. Perfect mix of turn based and active play.
As most people in this thread will tell you, the comparison doesn't work and it's a pretty good game.
Just like the original game
Perhaps, but I bought this game in 2021, not 1997, and it's not like it's a one to one remake.
I'm slowly playing through the original FF7 for the first time in preparation for FF7R. It's very easy to see why it's so beloved, and it's overall an incredibly imaginative game with an epic scope, for its time. That said, eyerolling and very uneven writing, goofy NPCs, a very weird story and a complete tonal mess is exactly what that I've been finding the game to be packed with, lmao.
This is a better comparison, like or hate the Rebuild, you can't deny they are trying to do something different that compliments and celebtrates the original work. Rather than rigidly cling to the old game, embrace the differences of the remake.
Yup, the games are relatively grounded compared to Twin Snakes. Like how you grow a horn for being evil in MGSV or how Liquid Ocelot runs around pointing his fingers jazz hands style going "bang!" when he gets control of Guns of the Patriots. Totally grounded and not over the top stuff /S.
I don't hate Twin Snakes but people need to accept that Metal Gear is anime as fuck.
MGS1 is super fun arcadey stealth where you can play around the extremely limited and predictable AI to get through the game without ever even having to engage with any of the enemies. Twin Snakes is the same "just headshot everyone" problem 2 had but without the level design explicitly designed to constantly cut off direct sightlines to address that. You skate through Twin Snakes with absolutely no resistance because they did so little to update the level design to accommodate the new mechanics.
Also MGS is over the top when like a vampire man shows up and starts running across water, not because normal ass humans can suddenly flip off of missiles.
Yeah but most the fans wanted this from the game.
Back before Remake came out, people even on Resetera were worried that it would edge into being too grim and serious across the board.
Yeah, my take as well.
Aside from the ending and some minor nitpicks I absolutely loved every second of the remake.
Can't say the same about Twin Snakes.
Twin Snakes is a remake, FFVIIR is another unnecessary sequel just like Advent Children.
The Hobbit comparison is actually spot on because after seeing the first one I skipped the rest.
The Hobbit comparison is actually spot on because after seeing the first one I skipped the rest.
