Eien1no1Yami

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,331
Honestly sometimes by reading threads like these on Resetera I'm really worried that the situation
when FF7R:Part II releases is gonna be really bad.
I understand that the original is a really important game to some people but honestly it's not good to be controlled by your emotions.There are many people, hell I would say most people,who enjoyed the Remake so having this huge gap between the fanbase does not offer any meaningful discussion and can only bring toxicity.
I mean....I think it's ok if it's contained in a thread like that as people who're gonna post here are mostly people who didn't like the game but if this discorse also transfers to Part II's OT things are gonna get out of hand.
 
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Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
Twin Snakes is a remake, FFVIIR is another unnecessary sequel just like Advent Children.
The Hobbit comparison is actually spot on because after seeing the first one I skipped the rest.

What makes a sequel necessary or unnecessary? And does being a necessary or unnecessary sequel speak to the value of said sequel?

Lord of the Rings is an unnecessary sequel to the Hobbit even if it's far better than the Hobbit.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Eh I wouldn't go that far.

Sure you can say atmosphere and some other stuff is different but that's the point. FF7R is a different game than FF7 is. It is supposed to be a sequel rather than a remake. I myself prefer FF7 as it is simply more my thing.

MGS TS meanwhile is supposed to be a true remake but it sucks. Like everything is worse. The atmosphere, the music, the voice acting (other than Mei Ling), the level design. It feels like a butchering of the original.
 

Zeouter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,620
Ireland
Yeah but most the fans wanted this from the game.

Back before Remake came out, people even on Resetera were worried that it would edge into being too grim and serious across the board.
I guess I don't think thats the case. Some of the non serious content is its best, like Honey Bee.
It's the awkward, poorly written or performed bits that make it so awkward and uneven.
 

Polyh3dron

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,860
Nah. The only comparison to anything else that makes a lick of sense is the Evangelion Rebuild movies.
 

BigDes

Knows Too Much
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,807
And I was interested in trying FF7R, but if it's as bad as twin snakes…
Posts like this I never understand and it happens all the time

There will be threads raving about a certain game that go into hundreds of pages and nothing but it is the contentious opinion of one particular poster who barely seems to remember what the original game was like that sways you? Odd to say the least.
 

Snarfington

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,937
I'm not gonna act like an expert on FF7 but as someone who played, maybe half of the OG and finished Remake, the take that original FF7 isn't cheesy as hell is wild to me. Remake is moreso, yes, but it adopts the modern JRPG storytelling which is a little cheesier but is almost like the ancestor that evolved from the popularity of the cheese kickstarted by FF7 (and X, admittedly to a larger extent).
 

Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
11,893
Loved both. With regard to VIIR, it was never going surpass VII, if only because it was just a part of the game, but also because there was no way it could innovate as much as the original did given that game's time and cultural context. In fact, I think they did one of the most innovative things they could do with the ending and for the first time in decades I am excited to see what comes out for Final Fantasy. It could be good, it could be awful, but it will be something wild either way.

It's also kind of hard to compare VIIR to VII because its such a small fraction of the game. What they absolutely managed to do is I feel mostly inherit the feeling of a lot of the original, down to the zaniness of so many of the side characters and little details here and there. The humor, etc. When it was originally announced I was so worried it was going to lean heavily into advent children/compilation stylings and I think the game mostly avoided all of that.

Also OG FFVII is itself a wildly tonally inconsistent game. It's cheesy and quirky and flip flops between seriousness and racing chocobos, stopping a plate collapse and trying on dresses.
 

Lynd

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,462
Twin Snakes is good, but I played it first. Also, werent the cutscenes directed by a film director that Kojima wanted/hired?
 

BigDes

Knows Too Much
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,807
Loved both. With regard to VIIR, it was never going surpass VII, if only because it was just a part of the game, but also because there was no way it could innovate as much as the original did given that game's time and cultural context. In fact, I think they did one of the most innovative things they could do with the ending and for the first time in decades I am excited to see what comes out for Final Fantasy. It could be good, it could be awful, but it will be something wild either way.

It's also kind of hard to compare VIIR to VII because its such a small fraction of the game. What they absolutely managed to do is I feel mostly inherit the feeling of a lot of the original, down to the zaniness of so many of the side characters and little details here and there. The humor, etc. When it was originally announced I was so worried it was going to lean heavily into advent children/compilation stylings and I think the game mostly avoided all of that.

Also OG FFVII is itself a wildly tonally inconsistent game. It's cheesy and quirky and flip flops between seriousness and racing chocobos, stopping a plate collapse and trying on dresses.
Tifa having a slap fight with a woman wearing an opera dress on top of a gigantic gun barrel

Juxtaposed with a city levelling threat advancing in the background

Gritty and mature.
 

Deleted member 3196

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,280
Twin Snakes is a retelling that stays faithful to the original plot and aims to say the same thing as the original, but tries too hard to be different at the same time. It turns out to not be a very good remake.

FF7R interprets the word "remake" differently, and I applaud Square-Enix doing it this way rather than just doing a beat for beat remake of the original, which probably would've been a lot easier.

I won't say anymore to avoid spoilers, but FF7R feels more like a continuation than a retelling.

And because of that I think the OP is premature in their assessment.
 

Truly Gargantuan

Still doesn't have a tag :'(
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,034
Tifa having a slap fight with a woman wearing an opera dress on top of a gigantic gun barrel
It's even double silly when you consider that Tifa is a martial artist trained by one of the best martial artists in VII's world, yet reduces herself to a slap fight when she could have roundhouse kicked Scarlett into oblivion the moment she stepped to Tifa.
 

Magneto

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,449
FF7R is such a good game. I applaud Square Enix because they made it interesting for everybody.

Twin Snakes is just garbage.
 

Kemiko

Member
Oct 5, 2018
637
Gonna have to strong disagree with this one.

FF7R is my first time playing the series and I thought it was amazing throughout. I had an absolute blast playing through it.

Huge MGS fan and I fall into the camp that also liked Twin Snakes. I'd take it as it's own thing as it's obviously a lot more OTT compared to the original but by no means would I say it's bad.

Side Note - I feel like everything today has to be some form of hot take all the time. There's no room for people to just like different things and accept it. Both are great games and not everyone has to like them one way or another.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,493
I'd never considered this analogy before but I think it's a really solid comparison and close to my feelings.

Im still forcing myself to play through 7R and I'm just finding myself cringing through a lot of it. It's obviously got a brand new style that a lot of people love but, as a forever mega fan of FF7, it's super not for me.
 

Niklel

Prophet of Regret
Member
Aug 10, 2020
4,052
Posts like this I never understand and it happens all the time

There will be threads raving about a certain game that go into hundreds of pages and nothing but it is the contentious opinion of one particular poster who barely seems to remember what the original game was like that sways you? Odd to say the least.
This was mostly an exaggerated reaction, tbh. 😅
Whatever interest I had in the game is still there. Just going to wait till the PS5 version is a bit less expensive (I have many games in my backlog to play till then anyway), and then I will buy it. I haven't played the original (or any other FF game), so the remake potentially being very different or even inferior doesn't bother me too much.
 

Irene

Member
Feb 22, 2021
730
Love all four games, OGs and remakes, but disagree with the take presented here. I echo what people have been saying about Remake being more of a reimagining, rather than a straight spice-up with over the top cutscenes.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,501
Definitely no. Twin Snakes was another team's interpretation that was a strict remake in terms of plot and structure with a few new mechanics and a different flair to the cutscenes.

FF7R is basically the old band getting back together to make a secret sequel disguised as a remake
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
I feel this is one of those moments where I appreciate that I didn't play the original, and instead I simply enjoyed FFVII: Remake on it's own merits.

Threads like this are honestly insufferable. Calling FFVIIR a "cringe-inducing, over-the-top retelling" of FFVII is just... I don't have a facepalm big enough for it. Twin Snakes was an attempt to modernise the original Metal Gear Solid, using the mechanics and style Kojima introduced in MGS2. No Metal Gear Solid game since the second one has been the same as the original, after all. It was very unique, with a much more down-to-earth and philosophical Solid Snake and a lot less of the silliness the franchise has come to be known for.

Yet, with FFVIIR, we got a game that greatly expanded the Midgar section, giving more depth and personality to literally every character you can think of, with an incredible combat system, some of the best damn renditions of the music since The Black Mages covered it and one of the most beautiful games ever made...

...and this is the kind of thread we get? Ugh.

For what it's worth I enjoyed both games on their own merits. I don't see FFVIIR as a remake, anyway, but as a sequel. There are too many things that strongly imply this somehow takes place after Advent Children so I'm not expecting a 1:1 retelling and I am so happy about that. If I want to play FFVII, I'll just play FFVII. I am much more interested in this weird narrative they're building that is more likely to take these characters I love on a new journey than retreading one they've already been on.
 
Oct 30, 2017
9,353
While playing FF7R, however, half of the time I'm actually, literally wincing or rolling my eyes at the voice acting, the goofy NPC models, the excessively silly cutscenes, the weird story additions, the overly muted and/or excessively bombastic remade musical tracks
lol what ?

The VA in FFVIIR is solid, the NPC models were goofy as the original game, and the cutscenes were one of the best in the industry and all the story additions especially in the end was a win-win situation... and you are complaining about the Soundtrack seriously ?



How can anyone be complaining about this lol....
 

Philippo

Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
7,986
But a lot of people are playing FF7R as their first contact with FF7 and are having a great time with it so... ?
 

Zalman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,896
I like Twin Snakes more. It was a nice remake with direction that falls more in line with the rest of the series. FF7R felt very bloated to me - I would have preferred it if it wasn't split into multiple games.
 

Brat-Sampson

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,550
People who hated Remake should probably just straight-up avoid part 2 and discussions of part 2, like, for their own sanity.

I thought it was fantastic, but then I also enjoyed Twin Snakes, so am clearly some kind of abominable philistine...
 
Oct 30, 2017
9,353
But a lot of people are playing FF7R as their first contact with FF7 and are having a great time with it so... ?
So true.

I personally know some who their first experience with FFVII was with the Remake and they freaking loved it.
If you loved the original then you will always have the original timeline story.

and the Remake gives a brilliant chance for another unpredictable changes to a story we all known for decades now.. it would have been so boring to remake the same story and events but with updated graphics .
 

Nakenorm

"This guy are sick"
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
22,704
If you loved the original then you will always have the original timeline story.

and the Remake gives a brilliant chance for another unpredictable changes to a story we all known for decades now.. it would have been so boring to remake the same story and events but with updated graphics .
Don't agree at all. People were asking for a remake and most were loving what they saw and played long before knowing the ending.
And even if they wanted to change stuff, I feel like they should've just done that instead of making up a convoluted reason for why there are differences.. The meta ending just so anticlimactic for me. Still excited for what's coming, both new and old, but can't say I'm excited for all the stupid stuff introduced at the end of the remake.
 

Voytek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,869
Maybe not an accurate comparison but I get it and feel much the same FF7 is easily one of my top 3 video games of all time so I was more excited for FF7R than any other game in recent memory but damn was I massively disappointed by it.
 

sandyph

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,057
Now I know that this game has received great critical reception and is generally considered to be among the best modern remakes of classic games, but I've gotta say I'm struggling to understand that right now. I'm not incredibly far into the game (just got to the church with Aerith), but I've seen enough to feel compelled to make this thread.

my man, you haven't seen anything yet

it's Nomura's after all

Yeah but most the fans wanted this from the game.

Back before Remake came out, people even on Resetera were worried that it would edge into being too grim and serious across the board.

and those fans can play the original FF7 in any of the currently available console out there (yes, even on the switch) or on their phone
 
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The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,555
TTS is a great game with a few controversial creative decisions. VII remake is a reboot, whole new adaptation whatever.
 
OP
OP
ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,961
Aren't you the person that also complained about the SotC remake ad nausium?
Absolutely.

As disappointing as FF7 Remake was it was not as bad as Ratchet and Clank remake. Which went out of its way to shit on the original.
It is one of the worst remakes I have ever seen. Besides the shiny graphics, I don't think anything was a real upgrade over the original.
Finally someone who feels the same way about that R&C "remake," which in reality was more of a movie tie-in game than anything. Other than some improvements that come with modern controls and QoL features, it's worse in every way than the original. And I'm actually replaying the original right now with my son, so nobody better try pulling the "nostalgia goggles" card on me.
 

legendofjelda

Member
Oct 26, 2017
299
Denmark
"I sure hope nobody plays this as their first and only FF7 experience." Because, honestly, I think someone playing FF7R who never experienced the original might think to themselves, "This is the game people go crazy over?"

I had the opposite reaction, personally! The original never did for me what it seemed to do for everyone else I knew who played it. It wasn't until FF7R that I went "oh, wow, these characters are amazing". I'm very invested in this world now, thanks to the zoomed in "re"telling of the new game.
 

Mr. Poolman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,100
I feel that the problem with the remake is that it takes itself way too seriously.

It tries to be this edgy serious experience that gives the idea of parody.

FFVII is a goofy game with some serious moments.
FFVII Remake is a serious game with some goofy moments.
 

Niklel

Prophet of Regret
Member
Aug 10, 2020
4,052
Well...

6075007-snake%20feat%20speed%20%281%29.gif
Like once, and he didn't perform some acrobatic stunt while doing this.
That wasn't a very good shot either, even though iirc Olga tells that no one has dodged it before.

Yup, the games are relatively grounded compared to Twin Snakes. Like how you grow a horn for being evil in MGSV or how Liquid Ocelot runs around pointing his fingers jazz hands style going "bang!" when he gets control of Guns of the Patriots. Totally grounded and not over the top stuff /S.

I don't hate Twin Snakes but people need to accept that Metal Gear is anime as fuck.
The horn is some unsubtle symbolism bullshit, I wouldn't necessarily put it into the "over the top" category.
MGS4 is a pretty bad game with lots of stupid stuff, but even 4 wasn't NEARLY as crazy as TTS.

Tonally TTS is almost the opposite of what mainline MGS games are.
 

Eidan

AVALANCHE
Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,623
FFVIIR elevates the source material. It has far more engaging gameplay, and does far better work with the characters. Music is better too.
 

Genesius

Member
Nov 2, 2018
16,055
Monthly Twin Snakes thread (sorta), I see.

Gameplay wise, EVERYONE hates on first person shooting breaking the Ocelot fight, but it's nothing Kojima hadn't already done himself years earlier.


Twin Snakes is flawed for sure, but I think the reason everyone hates on it is because the first game is, cutscene-wise at least, so perfect. Twin Snakes cinematics feel a lot more like Modern Kojima, which frankly, makes it worse. MGS1 has some gameplay flaws, but the story is Baby Bear: "just right." Every sequel has drifted further and further from that semi-believable, action-thriller core and become a sprawling convoluted mess of story. Twin Snakes introduced that neo-Kojima weirdness into that classic and I think people caught rashes from it. I imagine if MGS 5 and Peace Walker fans checked out The Twin Snakes, having never played MGS1, they wouldn't even blink.

Edit: I have no opinion on FF7 vs Remake from experience, but I know I'm a TON less likely to buy the Remake knowing it is deliberately changing the storyline, since my contrarian butt has refrained from playing through FF7 all these years.

The first MGS is really good because if feels like (in retrospect) Kojima had an editor. Then Kojima blew up and the explosion sent the editor off into the sun and the replacement was anime bullshit.
 

BigDes

Knows Too Much
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,807
The best gritty and mature moment in the original FFVII was when I used a dolphin to climb a tower.
 

Makoto Yuki

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,682
The horn is some unsubtle symbolism bullshit, I wouldn't necessarily put it into the "over the top" category.
MGS4 is a pretty bad game with lots of stupid stuff, but even 4 wasn't NEARLY as crazy as TTS.

Tonally TTS is almost the opposite of what mainline MGS games are.

All the bullshit of TTS fit perfectly in a universe where MGS4 has you firing people out of cannon on to a mobile aquaatic base with mount snake-more.

Even if you don't find growing a horn over the top, MGSV has you firing off a rocket arm, abducting people via parachute and warp holes. You had an almost naked snipers who breathe through her skin.

These games are insane anime nonsense, which is fine.
 

GSG

Member
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,051
I don't agree with this comparison, MGS:TS was a lot more faithful to MGS1 than FF7R was to the Midgar section of FF7.
 

Deleted member 81119

User-requested account closure
Banned
Sep 19, 2020
8,308
I kind of…agree? But I think it's a good thing. The Twin Snakes was a remake to surpass Metal Gear (Solid) and in that sense it failed. Whereas VII Remake was built as a companion to the original game. So the bombast, the additions and the change in tone all work in its favour.

That said, given VII Remake is trying to be something new, they did a remarkable job capturing much (if not all) of the essence of the original.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
Yes, I know I just made another similar thread about FF7R's execution of Midgar as a setting compared to the original, but after playing further into the game I just can't shake this analogy that keeps coming to mind: Final Fantasy 7 Remake feels like a "Twin Snakes" interpretation of FF7.

If you're not familiar with the Twin Snakes GameCube remake of MGS1, just know that it has long been the mercilessly mocked for its goofy, outlandish re-telling of MGS1's events. Much like FF7, MGS1 was a landmark PS1 title that blew people's minds on release and still very much holds up today. And much like Twin Snakes, FF7R feels like a cringe-inducing, over-the-top retelling of the legendary game that inspired it.

4467919-screen%20shot%202015-03-24%20at%209.13.04%20pm.png
3840


I'm not gonna stand here and act like FF7R is anything but a well-crafted modern action-RPG. It's a supremely polished labor of love that brings some interesting ideas to the table with regard to combat, and certain scenes and/or elements of the original are recreated with care here. I also fully recognize that remaking even a portion of a PS1-era JRPG with modern fidelity is an incredibly daunting proposition. But the whole time I've been playing this remake I find myself thinking, "I sure hope nobody plays this as their first and only FF7 experience." Because, honestly, I think someone playing FF7R who never experienced the original might think to themselves, "This is the game people go crazy over?"

NO. It's not. FF7R is a cheesy, rigidly linear, and tonally inconsistent take on an all-time classic. The original FF7 that people rave about is on another plane of excellence from this for more reasons than I have time to cover. The atmosphere, the music, the scope, the characters... all of it is not only different in the original, but also just flat-out better than what we get here in this remake. It's like someone took the Midgar portion of FF7 and blasted it to hell with an Advent Children gun before sprinkling in some weird story wrinkles of its own (you know the ones).

barret.jpg

Don't even get me started on Barret in FF7R

FF7 is a game that I've revisited a few times in recent years, and it still absolutely captivates me. I'm sucked into that world every time, even viewing it through today's modern gaming lens. While playing FF7R, however, half of the time I'm actually, literally wincing or rolling my eyes at the voice acting, the goofy NPC models, the excessively silly cutscenes, the weird story additions, the overly muted and/or excessively bombastic remade musical tracks, and the tonal disparity when compared to the original. It feels like a run-of-the-mill shonen anime plot in the remake. Maybe you could argue that the original's plot could be accused of the same, but its delivery was worlds apart.

Now I know that this game has received great critical reception and is generally considered to be among the best modern remakes of classic games, but I've gotta say I'm struggling to understand that right now. I'm not incredibly far into the game (just got to the church with Aerith), but I've seen enough to feel compelled to make this thread.
I don't know how you can call FF7R's character models goofy, and then go on to praise the original FF7, "even viewing it through today's modern gaming lens", when the character models look like this:

Uk6RWeDYEC94aCCvqqDeuc-970-80.jpg



Like, come on, lol. I understand if you say you prefer the original FFVII for it's time, but pretending that stuff like the above screenshot holds up "through a modern lens" is just rose tinted nostalgia speaking.
 

hikarutilmitt

"This guy are sick"
Member
Dec 16, 2017
11,567
OP:
TL;DR
I don't like Remake therefore I'm going to compare it to a lambasted remake.

ME:
But... no? I'm honestly not sure why this comparison is being made, especially since TTS was remade one generation after, with a different engine, but aside from cutscenes almost entirely intact with very few actual changes. There are plenty of negative things to actually say about FFVII-R, but this ain't it.