dglavimans

Member
Nov 13, 2019
8,011
I need to fact check this but i'm watching a reaction video on the finale and from the moment Aerith wakes up it seems she only speaks lines she has said before and Cloud heard and not one line is original?

Sure someone threw that up already but still a neat thing (if true ofc)
 
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Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,381
I need to fact check this but i'm watching a reaction video on the finale and from the moment Aerith wakes up it seems she only speaks lines she has said before and Cloud heard and not one line is original?

Sure someone threw that up already but still a neat thing (if true ofc)
I don't think the lines talking about praying to step Meteor existed before.

The other lines were just jokes.
 

Koklusz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,691
And i get its a video game that has to video game but having Barret pump 1K rounds into him and him being fine but Shinra shoots him 6 times and he dies is just funny. Ranks up there with the gang of 5 with a baseball bat KOing Cloud and the crew (who then choose to stay in a cage instead of breaking out and killing everyone).
GIOfkqjWwAAkLnp.jpg
 

Ear Mortal

Member
Mar 9, 2022
581
And i get its a video game that has to video game but having Barret pump 1K rounds into him and him being fine but Shinra shoots him 6 times and he dies is just funny. Ranks up there with the gang of 5 with a baseball bat KOing Cloud and the crew (who then choose to stay in a cage instead of breaking out and killing everyone).

Even back when I played this years ago I was like:

"uh......dat it? Guy died to 3 guys and one small burst of ammo?"


zack-death1.jpg
 

Mephissto

Member
Mar 8, 2024
597
Even back when I played this years ago I was like:

"uh......dat it? Guy died to 3 guys and one small burst of ammo?"


zack-death1.jpg

Yeah, the alternative is having enemies die to a few hits during combat as well or have dudes tank 100 shots during cutscenes as well for consistency.

At the end of the day it is a video game and the combat doesn't have to reflect the cutscenes or it wouldn't work.
 

Mephissto

Member
Mar 8, 2024
597
Finished last night, and was mostly confused with the ending. Not confused about ultimately what happens but what I should feel during the ending. Its too many scenes, too many bosses. The emotional impact was almost zero. Could have been better executed, perhaps a second playthrough will be clearer. But now that I had some time to think, yeah, this might work. When Cloud finally realizes Aerith is gone, it will be much worse. But I have a question, is this delusion in Cloud's mind and created by him due to trauma, or did Aerith or Sephiroth make an effort to "trick" Cloud into thinking she's still alive?


I think Cloud actually did save her in some way/reality but either him saving her somehow only managed to save her spirit so she can persist in the lifestream or he saved her but due to Sephiroth's merging of worlds she ends up dead anyway.

Either way Cloud thinks he managed to save her IMO partly due to his own trauma but also Jenova/Sephiroth fuckery.

Edit: Sorry for double posting.
 

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,381
or he saved her but due to Sephiroth's merging of worlds she ends up dead anyway.
I believe the merging of the worlds would have ended up with her conclusively dead, but in the end they were able to stop and undo the merging so that the worlds were split again.

As for why her death would have superseded her survival, I think the world with the strongest emotions is the one that persists.

IMO, of course.
 

Mr.Fletcher

Member
Nov 18, 2017
9,695
UK
I beat this last night after 88 hours and 17 minutes - I did everything bar the level 70 protorelic challenge.

It's a wonderful game with a huge heart. Just as you could feel the dev's love for the source material in Remake, you can feel it here in Rebirth. It oozes passion and enthusiasm.

You can tell the people working on this game love FF7.

The scale of the game is out of this world and it feels like a true adventure, with highs, lows, detours, big twists and so on.

I loved it and I doubt anything will top it this year. It's a weird hodgepodge of 90s soul, early 00s open world checklist content and state of the art present day presentation.

My wife and I adored it. It's a 10 for me.

I'll post more in the future, but just to comment on a few things -

Tifa and Cloud are very much pushed as the canon couple in my opinion. I thought Remake did a good job of balancing the romantic triangle, and as someone captivated by Aerith in that game, I felt comfortable favouring her with little push back from the game. Funnily enough, I replayed the game just before Rebirth and found myself split down the middle, liking both equally. But fast forward to Rebirth and Tifa is absolutely pushed as 'the one'. Her and Cloud share a number of emotionally charged moments and whenever Cloud is going through hardship or needs a helping hand, Tifa is the one to comfort him. From their initial friction on the rooftop, to their awkward conversation at the inn, to Tifa's reactor rescue mission, to her rush to comfort at him in Shinra Manor, or how she goes to help him when he confronts the big bad… while Aerith goes to grab the materia. There's a subtle favouring of Tifa throughout.

Not to mention they nearly kiss after the reactor sequence too. It's also suggested in optional dialogue that Cloud used to stand guard to try and catch a glimpse of Tifa. While speaking Tifa mentions that Cloud always used to stare at her if you talk to her in the same area. And when you factor in the optional dates, with Tifa's being the most overtly romantic - we even see them kiss - it very much feels like they are the chosen ones. And I'm fine with that to be honest.

I favoured Tifa myself in Rebirth because she's empathetic, thoughtful and human, while also being a complete badass with lots of inner strength. She gets so many cool moments and I think, outside of the final chapter and a half, completely outshines Aerith throughout the entire game.

This favouring feels even more overt because you've got Aerith still hung up on Zack in the main timeline, and Zack pining after Aerith in the other one. I think Aerith is conflicted, she still has feelings for Zack, but likes Cloud… while also knowing that 'this' Cloud isn't the real one, so to speak. So it kind of feels like you've got the romantic relationship between Tifa and Cloud developing in one timeline, and hopes of Aerith and Zack enjoying a happy ending in the other.


One thing I have to mention is how Cloud was slowly corrupted throughout the game and became quite unlikable towards the conclusion. It was really well done and worked well. I didn't want to control him near the end and was hoping someone else would take over the player one spot for a time to really disconnect the player from Cloud. They do switch things around a little bit, but I think they could have gone further.

I mention this because it's tangential to one of my pet peeves with the game - Cloud's deteriorating mental health, uncharacteristic actions and odd behaviour goes unremarked upon throughout. Cloud is never seemingly aware he is being manipulated, which you can write off to mind control shenanigans, but everyone else either tip toes around everything or just gets on with it.

I turned to my wife and said, you know what this reminds me of? And she said Xenoblade. I said yep. But it reminds me why I enjoyed a somewhat similar idea in that game more than here in Rebirth (in some sense). Shulk immediately tells people he's experiencing visions of the future, the rest of the party acknowledge it and it's incorporated into the plot in a way that includes everyone. Meanwhile it feels like the elephant in the room here. It's perhaps something that should be spoken about, but no one wants to be the person to bring it up. We do see gestures towards this when Cloud talks to Tifa after the reactor incident, but I'm sat there for the final five hours thinking, is someone actually going to talk to him? Call him a dickhead? Anything?

It's not badly written and the idea that SOLDIERS degrade over time is a nice little narrative mechanism to help justify Cloud's ignorance to his mind control and the party's acceptance of some of the wacky stuff he does. But you do wonder at some points toward the end, is someone going to have a word with him or what? He grabbed the black materia and was cackling like a cartoon villain. Anyone?

I loved everything they did with Cloud in regards to the mind control, heel turn and so on. But it becomes so intense towards the end, to have no one comment on it feels a little contrived. That's the payoff for the next game, we've got a 10-phase boss fight to get over the line. Let's move on. Again the execution of it was excellent, but the writing around it left me wondering why no one was saying anything. Of course, I know the story of the original FF7. I know where the payoff is coming, but still.


And my final critique, which is going to sound like it could be a big one, but in the grand scheme of things it isn't for me personally - Septhiroth.

I'm not sure they've got him quite right. From the start of Remake to the end of Rebirth, he appears sporadically, spouting cryptic nonsense, before checking out for another dozen hours.

'I'm waiting Cloud'

'Let us defy destiny together'

'Seven seconds to the end…'

'It's a reunion… it's a homecoming…'

Blah, blah, blah. I don't dislike him, but as a charismatic villain, he misses the mark. Great look and a great theme. But you reach a tipping point, or at least I did in this game, where I just thought, shut up man, and just speak like a normal person. Stop with the riddles, metaphors and crazy lines, and give me some clarity.

And I'm talking about him in the broad strokes, not in a 'I'm not impressed with version of Septhiroth' way, more in a 'villain to carry a game' way. The structure of the game doesn't help him. There's not many meaningful story beats where he has an impact, and if you're consuming all the side content, he's just not in the game for hours and hours.

So, he's not terrible but when he never talks plainly, doesn't appear for hours on end and when he does appear, it's typically as some-kind of ghost… but you keep making him the final boss… I don't know. I appreciate and respect why they've handled him differently in this trilogy to the original game, and respect the intention, but I'm not totally convinced the execution is quite right so far.


Again, this game is a 10 for me. I could probably write three times as much about what I loved about the game. But it's always fun picking apart the bits we're not sure about.
 
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brain_

What is a tag? A miserable pile of words.
Member
May 13, 2021
2,707
MO
Update after another day of failed attempts: I think Rulers of the Outer Worlds Gilgamesh might be the hardest fight I've ever played in a video game. I don't even have time to think about how I want to tackle it I'm just dead, and then get slaughtered trying to revive
 

Ashes of Dreams

Fallen Guardian of Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
14,945
I need to fact check this but i'm watching a reaction video on the finale and from the moment Aerith wakes up it seems she only speaks lines she has said before and Cloud heard and not one line is original?

Sure someone threw that up already but still a neat thing (if true ofc)
It's not true. Some of them ARE repeats. She talks about promising not to look up and then they reference the conversation they had in Remake about getting lost on the way back and she is word for word there. But if this is intended to be more than that, it's not consistent. Most of her lines are original. (Though I still think she feels weird and off)
 

Mephissto

Member
Mar 8, 2024
597

Nice writeup. I feel like Sephiroth scenes are mostly hit or miss. I really enjoy a few of the but some also feel too cryptic to really have an impact. I like that we found out that the first scene in Remake where we meet Sephiroth he is actually saying thr last words of Cloud's mom. That one was retroactively made cool.

Update after another day of failed attempts: I think Rulers of the Outer Worlds Gilgamesh might be the hardest fight I've ever played in a video game. I don't even have time to think about how I want to tackle it I'm just dead, and then get slaughtered trying to revive


Yeah, it is prett difficult. I did it with a cheese strat at first but went back to it to try it legit with my own build. I almost killed him but then he got me with his ult and all my next tries went worse than the first haha. It sucks that you can't learn the fight elsewhere.
 

brain_

What is a tag? A miserable pile of words.
Member
May 13, 2021
2,707
MO
Yeah, it is prett difficult. I did it with a cheese strat at first but went back to it to try it legit with my own build. I almost killed him but then he got me with his ult and all my next tries went worse than the first haha. It sucks that you can't learn the fight elsewhere.
I've been using some online builds and can't help but laugh when a party member is dead 5 seconds into whatever setup it talks about lol. Whole strat goes to shit if someone isn't there. I'm not quick to call it bullshit because its a brutal optional challenge that is by no means necessary.

But man.. Why aren't these just single fights lol
 

Mephissto

Member
Mar 8, 2024
597
I've been using some online builds and can't help but laugh when a party member is dead 5 seconds into whatever setup it talks about lol. Whole strat goes to shit if someone isn't there. I'm not quick to call it bullshit because its a brutal optional challenge that is by no means necessary.

But man.. Why aren't these just single fights lol

The easiest method to me was by far the brumal form tactic with Yuffie. But yeah, shit can go south real quick.
 

dglavimans

Member
Nov 13, 2019
8,011
It's not true. Some of them ARE repeats. She talks about promising not to look up and then they reference the conversation they had in Remake about getting lost on the way back and she is word for word there. But if this is intended to be more than that, it's not consistent. Most of her lines are original. (Though I still think she feels weird and off)
Yeah it kinda fell or stands with 100 precent being repeated but one poster already said about the 'i'll stop sephiroth with my prayer'

So eh failed brain spin :p
 
Nov 13, 2017
1,659
Should I be completing sidequests on hard mode? I did all of them on normal and have just been keeping my progress. I just redid one on hard for an AP grind and got a manuscript at the end of it, so now I'm kinda concerned that I'm missing out on manuscripts!
 

Lozange

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,125
Should I be completing sidequests on hard mode? I did all of them on normal and have just been keeping my progress. I just redid one on hard for an AP grind and got a manuscript at the end of it, so now I'm kinda concerned that I'm missing on manuscripts!
If you look in the sidequest menu, you'll see all the sidequests that have manuscripts associated with them, so you can just do those.
... theoretically.
In practice, the party animal sidequest has a manuscript too, and you need to complete all the sidequests to access that one, and then some sidequests are locked behind other sidequests anyway, so it's all a bit messy.
 
Nov 13, 2017
1,659
If you look in the sidequest menu, you'll see all the sidequests that have manuscripts associated with them, so you can just do those.
... theoretically.
In practice, the party animal sidequest has a manuscript too, and you need to complete all the sidequests to access that one, and then some sidequests are locked behind other sidequests anyway, so it's all a bit messy.

So I gotta do that all again, even though I completed them (including party animal) on normal?
 

Lozange

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,125
So I gotta do that all again, even though I completed them (including party animal) on normal?
If you want the manuscripts, yes. Technically I don't think there's a trophy associated with it if that matters to you, but of course they can be pretty useful to have so...
Oh, but you don't need to complete party animal, you just need to beat the arena challenge, because that's where the manuscript is.
 
Nov 13, 2017
1,659
If you want the manuscripts, yes. Technically I don't think there's a trophy associated with it if that matters to you, but of course they can be pretty useful to have so...
Oh, but you don't need to complete party animal, you just need to beat the arena challenge, because that's where the manuscript is.

Jfc

It's funny, because the whole time through, I'm thinking "there's no way there's enough manuscripts from the hard mode bosses to max everyone out". I just got to nibelheim and decided to look it up.

I can just start doing them now, right? I don't need to go back to specific chapters to do ones in previous regions?
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
5,023
Even back when I played this years ago I was like:

"uh......dat it? Guy died to 3 guys and one small burst of ammo?"


zack-death1.jpg

I was thinking about this, in the OG game its such a brutal scene to just have a machine gun to the face just go off. I miss the simplicity of that, it painted the world as a much more dangerous place. In the current remake you never really feel like the characters are in any danger if Sephiroth is not involved.
 

Mephissto

Member
Mar 8, 2024
597
Jfc

It's funny, because the whole time through, I'm thinking "there's no way there's enough manuscripts from the hard mode bosses to max everyone out". I just got to nibelheim and decided to look it up.

I can just start doing them now, right? I don't need to go back to specific chapters to do ones in previous regions?

You should do them in Chapter 12 or 13. There you have access to all of them. Pick chapter 12 if you want to have Cait with you.

The early sidequests with Red are kinda fun to redo because he uses is actual voice for all of them.
 

Lozange

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,125
Jfc

It's funny, because the whole time through, I'm thinking "there's no way there's enough manuscripts from the hard mode bosses to max everyone out". I just got to nibelheim and decided to look it up.

I can just start doing them now, right? I don't need to go back to specific chapters to do ones in previous regions?
To add to what has been said already, if you're going for all the manuscripts, one other thing you might have missed is the classified intel fights (e.g. the King Tonberry - not any of the regular intel fights). They all have a manuscript on hard mode, as well as some hard mode exclusive crafting materials.
 
Nov 13, 2017
1,659
To add to what has been said already, if you're going for all the manuscripts, one other thing you might have missed is the classified intel fights (e.g. the King Tonberry - not any of the regular intel fights). They all have a manuscript on hard mode, as well as some hard mode exclusive crafting materials.

Ok that's very good to know, thank you. I'd only been going through the main story and ignoring everything else.
 

Mephissto

Member
Mar 8, 2024
597
I read a fun theory in reddit that the clear white materia might function like a pokeball for Sephiroth, lmao. That once he is defeated and is only present in the lifestream / as a memory, the empty white materia will absorb and capture him.

Kinda out there but still not too weird as well, haha.
 
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Ear Mortal

Member
Mar 9, 2022
581
I was thinking about this, in the OG game its such a brutal scene to just have a machine gun to the face just go off. I miss the simplicity of that, it painted the world as a much more dangerous place. In the current remake you never really feel like the characters are in any danger if Sephiroth is not involved.

I didn't feel that brutality myself, it was very much similar to the 7R games fro me where the guns in cutscenes seem like they are stronger than getting shot in gameplay battle.

Although one thing is for sure, people are much more impressionable when they are younger playing something and less prone to holding every aspect of it under microscope. It's why there is such a thing as nostalgia bias, people tend to hold that youthful impressionistic memory of things that were experienced during days of yore.
 
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XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
5,023
I didn't feel that brutality myself, it was very much similar to the 7R games fro me where the guns in cutscenes seem like they are stronger than getting shot in gameplay battle.

Although one thing is for sure, people are much more impressionable when they are younger playing something and less prone to holding every aspect of it under microscope. It's why there is such a thing as nostalgia bias, people tend to hold that youthful impressionistic memory of things that were experienced during days of yore.
Youre not wrong but show me another final fantasy where somebody gets shown taking a machine gun blast to the face at point blank range
 

dglavimans

Member
Nov 13, 2019
8,011
Hoping for a standalone client tbh with pvp mode, npc matches, puzzles and survival challanges. Would be sick as a mobile game and I don't like mobile games, lol.
It's such an easy make in my head lol..my friends say it won't have legs but who cares very few mobile games do

I would 100 precent fall into this for months like I did with Marvel Snap
 

Rahkeesh

Member
Jun 20, 2022
4,181
We actually don't know yet but there are camps on this one :p


This is super interesting… What is Square cooking

Kind of yucky but I think they might be turning Sephiroth into tragic and even misguided villain.

He learns he can't save everyone in that war... so comes up with some way that he can. He can have everyone exist "safely" in the planet's embrace, eternally. He's fine with himself existing alone if that is the price of "saving" everyone.

This all hinges on his inability to perceive people's pain though. Mistaking the cries of the souls of the planet for celebration. Denying that Cloud has any real feelings of sadness, only rage. "Its not death, its a homecoming." He has to convince himself that what he is doing is for the good of all.

Its adding up to a really huge deviation from the megalomaniac of the OG. And maybe even an ending where he "breaks" by being confronted with the wrongness of his actions, that he has to accept Glenn or Rosen's death for instance. As well as his own. Something like that which dissipates his very well to fight, might be the only way to defeat him for good.
 

dglavimans

Member
Nov 13, 2019
8,011
Kind of yucky but I think they might be turning Sephiroth into tragic and even misguided villain.

He learns he can't save everyone in that war... so comes up with some way that he can. He can have everyone exist "safely" in the planet's embrace, eternally. He's fine with himself existing alone if that is the price of "saving" everyone.

This all hinges on his inability to perceive people's pain though. Mistaking the cries of the souls of the planet for celebration. Denying that Cloud has any real feelings of sadness, only rage. "Its not death, its a homecoming." He has to convince himself that what he is doing is for the good of all.

Its adding up to a really huge deviation from the megalomaniac of the OG. And maybe even an ending where he "breaks" by being confronted with the wrongness of his actions, that he has to accept Glenn or Rosen's death for instance. As well as his own. Something like that which dissipates his very well to fight, might be the only way to defeat him for good.
Nah I don't feel Sephiroth gives 2 cents about the population at all.. At best he wants Cloud besides him for some reason but with him merging the worlds and killing everyone in the process idk how they can redeem Sephiroth

Would be interesting tho
 

Rahkeesh

Member
Jun 20, 2022
4,181
Nah I don't feel Sephiroth gives 2 cents about the population at all.. At best he wants Cloud besides him for some reason but with him merging the worlds and killing everyone in the process idk how they can redeem Sephiroth

Would be interesting tho

The point is that death is the only "safe" place for anyone. The only way to ensure that people are never parted from each other again, is if everyone is together in death. Devs commented that Sephiroth's "universe of death", with the constellations depicting his wing, "can be beautiful." This is also the very scene being referenced now in Ever Crisis but much earlier in his life.

For a selfish git he's remarkably consistent in telling people there's no sadness/fear in death, its just a return to the planet. The very scene where he's supposedly killing everyone with those merged worlds, he hears only rapture and celebration. He literally cannot feel that they are in any kind of pain, he's tells Cloud he's still got a very different "viewpoint" on what is happening in that scene.

With how obsessed Sephiroth is with "reunion" others have noticed that it doesn't seem to be a mere tool to an end, like controlling the planet or something. Reunion IS the point, realizing the "promised land" IS the point. An eternity of reunion. You just have to give up life itself.
 

dglavimans

Member
Nov 13, 2019
8,011
The point is that death is the only "safe" place for anyone. The only way to ensure that people are never parted from each other again, is if everyone is together in death. Devs commented that Sephiroth's "universe of death", with the constellations depicting his wing, "can be beautiful." This is also the very scene being referenced now in Ever Crisis but much earlier in his life.

For a selfish git he's remarkably consistent in telling people there's no sadness/fear in death, its just a return to the planet. The very scene where he's supposedly killing everyone with those merged worlds, he hears only rapture and celebration. He literally cannot feel that they are in any kind of pain, he's tells Cloud he's still got a very different "viewpoint" on what is happening in that scene.

With how obsessed Sephiroth is with "reunion" others have noticed that it doesn't seem to be a mere tool to an end, like controlling the planet or something. Reunion IS the point, realizing the "promised land" IS the point. An eternity of reunion. You just have to give up life itself.
It can be interesting tho if you note it like that Sephiroth very much seems to never accepted his own 'death' so in his mind why should others be at ease with it and accept it?

I.. don't hate the theory? It's kinda what we are fighting for all along right?
 

brain_

What is a tag? A miserable pile of words.
Member
May 13, 2021
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I think I'm done platinum chasing. Outer Worlds has defeated me, you win Square. Can't keep doing this to myself lol I am very close to ruining one of my favorite games and I don't want to do that over some bullshit optional challenge.
 
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Nov 13, 2017
1,659
Hmmmm no hands on the clock in Tifa's house in the present. Made SOME sense for the Zack timeline, but now I'm kinda convinced it's just a weird asset.

KDfr3Up.jpeg
 

Mr.Fletcher

Member
Nov 18, 2017
9,695
UK
Nice writeup. I feel like Sephiroth scenes are mostly hit or miss. I really enjoy a few of the but some also feel too cryptic to really have an impact. I like that we found out that the first scene in Remake where we meet Sephiroth he is actually saying thr last words of Cloud's mom. That one was retroactively made cool.

Thanks! I do think it'll come together. I don't dislike him and think the third game will help a lot, when we start getting the pay-offs we're all waiting for. I have mixed feelings but there's still a lot of story left to go.
 

ChocoBuddy

Banned
Apr 9, 2024
254
Just rolled credits.

I'm...pretty conflicted.

I like that the ending leans more into death not being the end in terms of Aerith's fate with the ensuing scenes and Cloud having some kind of multiversal/lifestream bleed.

But the multiverse stuff... I kept an open mind as possible but it just ends up feeling really messy. I don't know maybe I need to let it marinate more.
 

hydrophilic attack

Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,602
Sweden
realized something on the hard mode playthrough i'm doing now: when you meet dyne, he acts like he can see anf speak to his dead wife eleanor. on my first playthrough, i thought he was mainly doing it to taunt barret. but with hindsight from the ending: his behaviour reminds me of cloud's delusions of seeing aerith at the ending. i'm wondering if the dyne scene is supposed to be foreshadowing for the ending
 

bingy

Member
Jun 24, 2021
198
Rolled credits last night. Probably the best RPG I've ever played.

Not too read-up on the theories on the ending yet, but my impression is that Aerith did die, but because of all the lifestream and other world shenanigans, Cloud is able to see the worlds merging. I think that's why he sees the tear and the other Aerith, which I assume is the one from the world where he's able to stop Seph from killing her like we see when you first step onto the final alter, before flashing to the reality where she gets killed. I think he's still delusional because of his classic identity crisis and unreliable narrator shtick, which is why he's still acting weird and not really acknowledging the fact that he's clearly seeing a different reality from the rest of the party.

Of course, he could just be imagining that she's there, or sensing the dead Aerith's presence from the livestream watching over them. I think there's evidence for all these takes!

My only other major thoughts are this:
  • I hope the incredibly brief Zack portions and his appearance back at the church are an indicator that he'll join as a full party member in the final game, where they'll expand on the battle mechanics they made for him.
  • Queen's Blood is straight up one of the best minigames I've ever played - I'd LOVE a mobile or physical version to play (one of or both of which I'm sure they'll make)!
 

Mephissto

Member
Mar 8, 2024
597
Just rolled credits.

I'm...pretty conflicted.

I like that the ending leans more into death not being the end in terms of Aerith's fate with the ensuing scenes and Cloud having some kind of multiversal/lifestream bleed.

But the multiverse stuff... I kept an open mind as possible but it just ends up feeling really messy. I don't know maybe I need to let it marinate more.

I also needed to let it marinate a bit. The ending was bit much to take in on first playthrough.

Rolled credits last night. Probably the best RPG I've ever played.

Not too read-up on the theories on the ending yet, but my impression is that Aerith did die, but because of all the lifestream and other world shenanigans, Cloud is able to see the worlds merging. I think that's why he sees the tear and the other Aerith, which I assume is the one from the world where he's able to stop Seph from killing her like we see when you first step onto the final alter, before flashing to the reality where she gets killed. I think he's still delusional because of his classic identity crisis and unreliable narrator shtick, which is why he's still acting weird and not really acknowledging the fact that he's clearly seeing a different reality from the rest of the party.

Of course, he could just be imagining that she's there, or sensing the dead Aerith's presence from the livestream watching over them. I think there's evidence for all these takes!

My only other major thoughts are this:
  • I hope the incredibly brief Zack portions and his appearance back at the church are an indicator that he'll join as a full party member in the final game, where they'll expand on the battle mechanics they made for him.
  • Queen's Blood is straight up one of the best minigames I've ever played - I'd LOVE a mobile or physical version to play (one of or both of which I'm sure they'll make)!

Not sure if I would like Zack being in the main timeline because I am not sure what his role would be and there already is a lot of ground to cover. Though I am always open to be pleasently suprised.
 

Weeros

Member
Apr 11, 2020
243
Now that I've watched couple of pretty casual streamers with no OG experience finish the game, I'm pretty sad to conclude the ending doesn't really work too well. They tried to do completely unsolvable/open mystery with any possibility equally possible (Cloud's seeing an illusion, Aerith alive, Aerith dead and from lifestream) but honestly these people were more sad/emotionally invested about Cait Sith dying than Aerith, since they immediately accept "well, she must be alive in another dimension it's cool", rendering what's supposed to be the "biggest fate" and the most important moment of the game completely trivial and meaningless. In addition they don't even consider the possibility that Cloud has just completely lost it with how much setup there is for alternative worlds, even though most likely course this is gonna play out is

- Cloud was just being fed false hope by lifestream Aerith to stop Sephiroth from collecting him, particularly given how devs said "I underestimated you" was aimed towards Aerith
- he will come crashing down in part 3 when it's revealed to him she's really dead, given eg. the fact the funeral was omitted and us knowing he will have to be broken and all
- given how Nomura said in Ultimania them wanting to explore not accepting someone's gone this time, I think just getting a replacement Aerith from another timeline is just a complete red herring that will put the player in Cloud's position

With all these I'm not sure how well Aerith's death is gonna work for these streamers in 3-4 years. Basically them bringing multiverse into this story had the worst possible effect on the impact of the story.
 
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Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,137
Multiverse generally ruins everything it touches these days. Creatives must think its a hit with the young people because of Marvel or something.
 

Koklusz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,691
Now that I've watched couple of pretty casual streamers with no OG experience finish the game, I'm pretty sad to conclude the ending doesn't really work too well. They tried to do completely unsolvable/open mystery with any possibility equally possible (Cloud's seeing an illusion, Aerith alive, Aerith dead and from lifestream) but honestly these people were more sad/emotionally invested about Cait Sith dying than Aerith, since they immediately accept "well, she must be alive in another dimension it's cool", rendering what's supposed to be the "biggest fate" and the most important moment of the game completely trivial and meaningless. In addition they don't even consider the possibility that Cloud has just completely lost it with how much setup there is for alternative worlds, even though most likely course this is gonna play out is

- Cloud was just being fed false hope by lifestream Aerith to stop Sephiroth from collecting him, particularly given how devs said "I underestimated you" was aimed towards Aerith
- he will come crashing down in part 3 when it's revealed to him she's really dead, given eg. the fact the funeral was omitted and us knowing he will have to be broken and all
- given how Nomura said in Ultimania them wanting to explore not accepting someone's gone this time, I think just getting a replacement Aerith from another timeline is just a complete red herring that will put the player in Cloud's position

With all these I'm not sure how well Aerith's death is gonna work for these streamers in 3-4 years. Basically them bringing multiverse into this story had the worst possible effect on the impact of the story.
I've said this before, but playing coy with Aerith's fate only to reveal later that she is actually dead and Cloud is just seeing things is a massive blunder from a storytelling perspective, IMO. It does nothing but completely remove any emotional impact the audience could have from seeing her die, and sucks out the oxygen from the revelations in the later part of the story (especially if they will lump it together with Cloud's lifestream sequence like many here suggested). Just a straight downgrade compared to the original.

The only way it would make sense if they will do something unexpected with all this set up; otherwise it has no point.
Multiverse generally ruins everything it touches these days. Creatives must think its a hit with the young people because of Marvel or something.
They got on that train even before MCU did. If anything, Evangelion rebuilds where the clear inspiration.
 

Poltergust

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,954
Orlando, FL
I mention this because it's tangential to one of my pet peeves with the game - Cloud's deteriorating mental health, uncharacteristic actions and odd behaviour goes unremarked upon throughout. Cloud is never seemingly aware he is being manipulated, which you can write off to mind control shenanigans, but everyone else either tip toes around everything or just gets on with it.

I turned to my wife and said, you know what this reminds me of? And she said Xenoblade. I said yep. But it reminds me why I enjoyed a somewhat similar idea in that game more than here in Rebirth (in some sense). Shulk immediately tells people he's experiencing visions of the future, the rest of the party acknowledge it and it's incorporated into the plot in a way that includes everyone. Meanwhile it feels like the elephant in the room here. It's perhaps something that should be spoken about, but no one wants to be the person to bring it up. We do see gestures towards this when Cloud talks to Tifa after the reactor incident, but I'm sat there for the final five hours thinking, is someone actually going to talk to him? Call him a dickhead? Anything?

It's not badly written and the idea that SOLDIERS degrade over time is a nice little narrative mechanism to help justify Cloud's ignorance to his mind control and the party's acceptance of some of the wacky stuff he does. But you do wonder at some points toward the end, is someone going to have a word with him or what? He grabbed the black materia and was cackling like a cartoon villain. Anyone?

I loved everything they did with Cloud in regards to the mind control, heel turn and so on. But it becomes so intense towards the end, to have no one comment on it feels a little contrived. That's the payoff for the next game, we've got a 10-phase boss fight to get over the line. Let's move on. Again the execution of it was excellent, but the writing around it left me wondering why no one was saying anything. Of course, I know the story of the original FF7. I know where the payoff is coming, but still.
I think this is where I land in regards to how the party treated Cloud when he is having his "episodes":

-Tifa figures out what is actually going on with him when she sees the vision of him being controlled by Sephiroth in the lifestream in chapter 9. She doesn't confront him about it since she's concerned for his well-being (even though she was attacked by him), and doesn't tell the party about it because she fears they'd turn on him. She wants to do what she can to make Cloud himself again but is lost on how to do that. This culminates in her begging for him to come to his senses at the end of chapter 13 but it's not enough.

-Aerith figures it out in chapter 13 either a bit before Cloud gets the Black Materia or just after during the whole scene where Cloud hands it to Sephiroth. She probably could've done something about it had she known earlier. Additionally, she lost the ability to see the future and lost her memories of said future after Remake, so in Remake she actually could've seen where Cloud's mind was going but has since forgotten about it.

-The rest of the party is chalking up his odd behavior to mako poisoning because they don't know otherwise. As far as I can tell, they didn't witness him attacking Tifa in the Gongaga reactor, and they didn't see him hand the Black Materia to Sephiroth because the Whispers were in the way (Aerith even makes up a lie to cover for him here). They have no reason to think Sephiroth is directly controlling his behavior. They try not to be too confrontational about it because they think he's simply having the equivalent of a mental health episode and getting angry at him wouldn't help matters or make him better.