Exactly.
If this wasn't coming from a "protected" studio throwing any shade of a doubt on it would get people shouting "VICTIM BLAMING!" all over the place.
Former Naughty Dog Employee Named in Sexual Harassment Claim
- Thread starter Jawbreaker
- Start date
Exactly.
If this wasn't coming from a "protected" studio throwing any shade of a doubt on it would get people shouting "VICTIM BLAMING!" all over the place.
I guess if somebody runs a company with unethical prcatices but they surround themselves with enough people who may or may not be contributing to such practices they should be immune to boycotts?
Firstly I think it's good that most people here seem to be able to withhold judgement while we still don't know all of the facts.
Secondly why should an entire company be punished due to the actions (if true mind you) of one person?
Plenty of people criticizing ND and Sony. It's the usual "both sides" crowd who defend anything and anyone who are waiting for "conclusive" evidence and all sides of the story.
Though there's really no need for pitchforks.
Why would people boycott great games from hundreds of great people over one guys stupidity who doesn't even work there anymore and another who knew who also doesn't work there.
Why are you painting them all with the same brush?
This is the internet this shit will blow up today and certainly be forgot about by the tine last of us 2 gets its e3 stage presence.
I completely agree. That dude asking for names trying to paint himself as a crusader justice and victims rights... Do me a favour.
I hate that situations like this play out on Twitter, the worst possible place for them.
They're absolutely 100% illegal as they're promoting sexist and/or homophobic values inside of a public company. In any other well-managed company, you would have been instantly fired for making those remarks at your work and it'd be impossible to defend yourself in front of a judge.
Looking by his previous tweets he just wants the harassment to be recognized by Sony/ND/Cogburn and maybe get an apology, you don't usually go to justice for an apology.
Who are you talking about? ND? What sexist/homophobic values are you talking about?
Yeah, how dare people await conclusive evidence before nuking someone's livelihood and reputation.
Reserving judgement until a clearer picture of what happened emerges is not victim blaming..
Blaming the victim for assault/harassment is victim blaming.
He was sexually harassed by another man. I think you can fill in the blanks.
Why do you make this sound like a bad thing? I don't care for Naughty Dogs, and I'm far more inclined to believe the victim like these situations, and yet I'd say the defendant has the right to tell his side of story, before people starts passing armchair judgement.
You're never going to get it. The fact is a tiny, miniscule minority of sexual harassment/abuse accusations are false but also that there is rarely such conclusive evidence for these that would satisfy you people. Basically they'd need to record themselves constantly or something, which is unreasonable to ask for. Diminishingly rare are the people who go thorugh the motions of accusing someone for fun or for no apparent reason. A year is a terribly long time to keep up a story like this if it's just for shits and giggles. There are instances where a bit more reserve is reasonable, but this case doesn't ring any of those bells.
It's not necessarily the sentiment itself that is wrong, but the eagerness at which the same people always come to these threads with their "I'll wait for evidence and want to hear both sides of the story" that makes it clear it's just shorthand for "I don't believe you" for many people.
Allegedly, and that is hardly "ND is 100% illegal as they're promoting sexist and/or homophobic values ".
There is so much wrong with your comment I'm not sure where to start.
Neither are you, so your opinion on the situation is irrelevant. Think what you like, but don't expect anyone to care.
If I called you a sex offender on Twitter right now, I'd bet my house you'd want some proof.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Sony say that they originally had no record of the ND contacting HR? So they practically lied,.
That is your assumption and IMO simply not true for the most part. But if you want to think that then go right ahead.
I personally think that while sexual harassment is a very serious and disgusting act, judgement off ALL involved should be withheld until all the facts are known. I believe giving the accuser the benefit of the doubt by default is a very dangerous precedent to set.
this was/is true for most traffic collisions/compensation claims and it caused an influx of people with dash cams so that they can offer evidence to support their claims if the need arises. as ridiculous as it may be, if sexual harassment is as rife as these reports lead us to believe, maybe recording ourselves constantly isn't so unreasonable after all?
Technically Sony can be correct if this incident take place and Sony didn't record down this incident on paper in the first place.
User Banned (Permanent): Trolling, thread derailment, account still in the junior phase, previous infraction for similar behaviour.
It's funny. Similar situation happened with Quantic Dream, alleged sexual harassment, toxic work environment, inaction by management, etc. Quantic gets completely shit on. People have their pitchforks out calling for a boycott. No need for conclusive evidence even when they have won 2 out of 3 lawsuits filed against them.
When Naughty Dog does it there's a massive defence force. Evidence is required first. Pitchforks are kept at home. And it's OK since the person that allegedly harassed the victim has left the company.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/qu...on-toxic-work-conditions-kotaku.38030/page-10
All of my replies were quotes from this thread. Lol.
When Naughty Dog does it there's a massive defence force. Evidence is required first. Pitchforks are kept at home. And it's OK since the person that allegedly harassed the victim has left the company.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/qu...on-toxic-work-conditions-kotaku.38030/page-10
All of my replies were quotes from this thread. Lol.
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You'll never have conclusive evidence in a vast majority of cases like this.
Also, 1) we are not in the court of law and 2) rarely do these sorts of accusations destroy lives. This will be forgotten in a few months, weeks even, assuming something bigger isn't revealed about it. Most people don't give a shit now, the rest will forget it soon enough
Yeah I know, but being technical about such a subject would be pretty shitty nonetheless. Someone inside the company knew this happened.
Creation (movie, music, game..) isnt responsible for sins of authors.
Product =/= author.
So if someone where you work is a killer, thief etc, they should fire you too?
Oh yeah
I didn't make any kind of slippery slope argument, you're definitely putting words into my mouth here. The repercussions of being accused in a case like this are not as negligible as you're trying to put forth, either. The fact is, false accusations do happen and even if it's only a small percentage of cases that means that caution should be exercised before putting someone to the torch. That does not mean it's okay to deride, prod or dissect someone who is making such claims. I believe wholeheartedly in supporting those who are brave enough to come forward and making the process as easy for them as it can possibly be. I just also don't believe in ripping an accused party to shreds in cases that are not substantiated. Public opinion will quite often do exactly that, though.
You really want people to shit on a Sony dev too do you? It's pretty transparent. Calling for pitchforks is never a good thing.
He has waited long enough since the first time he tweeted this claim in October last year. It's clear that he wanted all of this to be solved out of the court. Too bad, ND and/or Sony weren't cooperative. They could've reached him first as he couldn't reach them anymore. They had half a year to do that.
It might be forgotten by you, but the people involved won't forget in a hurry.
Is this supposed to prove some hypocrisy in people's reactions here?
Here's a crazy thought. Maybe the two situations are not actually identical. Maybe you spouting about homophobia and sexism in this thread makes no sense.
You do realize that what you're saying is as immature as those who genuinely defend their favorite company from these accusations?
I don't. If you read the other thread I'm completely against shitting on/boycotting any product over these incidents. And FYI I'm a pretty big Sony fan, started with the fat PSX when I was around 10 y.o
They're obviously not identical, but there are more similarities than differences. Both involve alleged sexual harassment, toxic work environments, inaction by management. The biggest difference is one company is more popular than another.
I don't see why it doesn't make sense to you, if a man sexually harasses another man I am assuming it most likely involves one of those things. If anything spouting about homophobia and sexism in this thread makes just as much sense as spouting it in the QD thread.
Sorry I'm not understanding your question. Why is "genuinely defending" a company from accusations "immature"?
I just think it's amusing how the forum's standards for both companies can be so different. People will make excuses and demand conclusive evidence if it's a popular franchise/company, but they're quick to call for boycotts and accuse supporters of "lesser companies" as advocates of racism/homophobia/sexism/whatever the certain incident involves.
And just to make completely clear, I think judging a company by the inappropriate actions of a few members is inane at best.
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Has Ballard ever elaborated on what the harassment consisted of? I'd understand if he's not willing to share that but when sexual harassment can be such a broad term, from inappropriate comments to groping, it makes it hard to gauge the response to things.
Two wrongs don't make one right. Just because people appeared to shown bias and raise a lot of pitchfork for a certain company doesn't mean it's ok to raise pitchfork now for another company. We didn't do well before, but we can do better.
I'm not raising a pitchfork. It's satire. Sorry if it wasn't made clear. I'm a big fan of both companies.
If the accused party is guilty, who gives a shit if they have to live on with a guilty conscience? And if they are accused falsely and there's no truth to it, I doubt he is in too much anguish past this initial backlash. I've been accused of something I didn't do (nothing sexual) and apart from it being annoying and frustrating at the time, since there was no basis of truth to the accusations, I suffered no long term consequences or mental anguish.
One thing you people also seem to ignore is that false accusations are far more often than not proven to be such pretty quickly. Whether it's an ex scorn after a messy break-up or a crazy jealous co-worker, false accusations don't usually stand up against much scrutiny.
It doesn't matter, even if we're talking about words, it can still be harassment. And it doesn't make it less damaging for Naughty Dog and Sony.
What is very worrying here is that it seems neither ND and Sony took those allegations with the necessary due process such type incidents require.
I laughed when I imagined for a second that this concerned 343 and MS HR :)))))))
If you hate that these go to twitter, then you kind of missed the entire point of the #MeToo movement. Going through the proper channels just doesn't work the vast majority of the time, and by having this out there for the public to see, it makes it harder for companies or abusers to just sweep it under the rug and pretend that this isn't going on. It's not like this guy didn't try the proper channels either, so what other choice did he have?
