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  1. DigitalOp

    DigitalOp
    Member OP

    Keep ignoring that Black Americans have a long history of this happening to our creations.


    The creator is a Hip-Hop artist. It was shared among all who partook in Hip-Hop.

    Ever since it became Hype, Its a "Fortnite Dance". Its damn near lost all relevancy to its source because of the mainstream commoditization.
     
  2. Crazy Izanagi

    Crazy Izanagi
    Member

    How is it not just as easy to find out where the other dances came from?
     
  3. they're ripping off dances and not giving the originators any credit.
     
  4. DigitalOp

    DigitalOp
    Member OP

    [​IMG]

    This is a gaming board and I made a thread about something happening in gaming
     
  5. Gravy Boat

    Gravy Boat
    Member

    You’re doing it again. I’m not ignoring that, I’m saying that’s a completely separate issue to what the premise of this thread is. This specific issue, with Fortnite and the dances, isn’t a black specific issue. Stop trying to assert that anyone who holds an opinion of “I don’t care” does so because they don’t care about the issues of black people.
     
  6. DigitalOp

    DigitalOp
    Member OP

    The greater point is that EPIC doesn't even try. A blurb on the screen when you go to buy the move citing the source...

    "Based on BlocBoy JB"

    A simple fucking blurb, and guess what? I have no reason to make this thread and none of you have to roll your eyes while I cry into the wind.

    Simple Solution, but yet... Here we are.
     
  7. Benita

    Benita
    Banned Member

    Does the video explain why the guy who does the shoot doesnt credit the moves he uses?
     
  8. ShinySunny

    ShinySunny
    Member

    Ughh, it is a dance.

    I have never heard of MJ going out of his way to stop people from using all his iconic moves.
    If MJ couldn't copyright/trademark his routines, ain't nobody can then.
     
  9. honest_ry

    honest_ry
    Member

    I love to dance to Erasure.

    Amazing band.

    Oh wait....what?
     
  10. send me an angel.
     
  11. DigitalOp

    DigitalOp
    Member OP

    It. Hurts. Black. People. More. Due. To. Our. Long. History. With. This. Behavior.

    Duele más a los negros debido a nuestra larga historia con este comportamiento

    Es schmerzt Schwarze mehr aufgrund unserer langen Geschichte mit diesem Verhalten

    私たちの長い歴史のために、この行動で黒人をもっと傷つける

    Cela nuit aux Noirs davantage à cause de notre longue histoire avec ce comportement


    Nobody is going outside and doing the ELAINE or the fucking CARLTON. They go outside and do the Shoot and the Milly Rock.
    You're being disingenuous as FUCK right now.
     
  12. DigitalOp

    DigitalOp
    Member OP

    Your trolling fucking sucks, thats why I ignored you.
     
  13. SprachBrooks

    SprachBrooks
    Member

    They're two distinct concepts. I'm sure if you think about it, you can tell the difference. Fortnite is not appropriating - which is bad in and of itself - it's erasing by omission of credit and essentially categorising the dance as derivative not from its source but culture in general whilst not specifying the culture or anything of the sort.
     
  14. honest_ry

    honest_ry
    Member

    This place is a Ship of Fools who gotta show A Little Respect.

    ;)

    (Hitting the office soon, full loud Erasure for me for the next few hours)
     
  15. Inuhanyou

    Inuhanyou
    Member

    Your getting too emotional. I'm saying the context in which you made the thread for the gaming side is really really reaching and does nothing help your underlying point. Because you get even people like me arguing about the validity of the surface level and not actually consuming the underlying point.

    "fortnite dances are cultural erasure" is not a good example to highlight cultural erasure. And does a disservice to the seriousness of the issue
     
  16. Staticneuron

    Staticneuron
    Member


    How would you if they are not credit or attributed properly? That was kind of the point of the video in OP.

    What you are misunderstanding, is that this is one of the methods, out of many, that has been used for hundreds of years to do this with a specific nation. If looking at each individual attempt you can shrug your shoulders and say it isn't that bad nor targeted, the truth of the matter is it is part of cumulative effect that is damaging. It has gone on for so long we can point to it as an example of erasure. If you are viewing this in the lense of a recent event or something only one game is doing, then you are not understanding the point being brought up.
     
  17. If it weren’t for Fortnite most people wouldn’t
    know the dances. I agree the artist who created the dance should be credited but if there is no copyright, who legally owns a dance move?
    Fortnite copies a lot of other IP’s for it’s skins. Eg. Ragnarok base skin is Kratos.

    The dances are a copyright issue not a cultural erasure. If there is no legal ownership then Epic are free to use dances. If it weren’t for Fortnite kids wouldn’t be copying them, so...
     
  18. newmoneytrash

    newmoneytrash
    Member

    This is just blatantly untrue. Did you think Epic went out and found dances nobody knew of to put in their games? Just because you didn't know it doesn't mean no one knew it
     
  19. hanmik

    hanmik
    Member

    wait.... is this thread about Fortnite (and other popular) games using dancemoves without crediting them..? or what is it?
     
  20. Gravy Boat

    Gravy Boat
    Member

    I'm not being disingenuous, you're completely missing what I'm saying. You have literally said in this thread that people who don't care about this issuel, don't care because 'Fuck black people'. I'm saying that's not the case but they care equally as little about all the dances in the game.
     
  21. Inuhanyou

    Inuhanyou
    Member

    The OP is trying to make a real point about black cultural erasure in America, but for some reason made it about fortnite dances and the sources not getting proper credit, when pressed then expanded to all cultures, not just the black ones getting the proper credit, thus invalidating the actual issue at hand, which is specifically black cultural erasure.
     
  22. Fortnite’s biggest playerbase is kids. So yeah they likely won’t know the Carlton dance, for example.

    Also the way Epic have implemented dances and non-violent gesture communication in Fortnite is to be commended.

    The issue here is whether an artist should be able to legally own and protect a dance move. It’s not specific to one game or cultural group.
     
  23. Agar25

    Agar25
    Member

    This is a very emotional thread, not touching this with a ten foot pole. Not going to tell people what to care about, I do find it fascinating if not a tad odd that this is such a heated issue for some and a complete shrug off for others ( most?)
     
  24. bricewgilbert

    bricewgilbert
    Member

    It's interesting because Epic was suddenly thrust into this position by the shear fact that they made a game that no one in a million years would have thought successful. It was a fucking joke for years and years before it actually came out. They put in silly dances like dozens of games before it (particularly MMOs) and somehow the dances of this game became a thing. Doesn't matter how they got there, but it's certainly interesting. I'm not going to pretend to know how copyright works, but it would be cool to live in a world where people are properly credited, simple dance moves are not beholden to strict copyright etc etc. Whatever combination that can protect creativity while at the same time not erasing those who originally created it. Maybe we do and I just don't know, or maybe it's completely broken.
     
  25. Benita

    Benita
    Banned Member

    You can't answer the question.

    It's not trolling. You wanna get big mad but you're not willing to actually engage with a different viewpoint.
     
  26. Emmert

    Emmert
    Member

    I don't think a lot of white people, which I am, truly understand the concept of cultural appropriation or cultural erasure. That's not to say that everyone who disagrees with the OP is white, but I've just never noticed white people get upset about cultural appropriation or erasure. I don't know if it's truly possible to understand it unless you're a minority.
     
  27. hanmik

    hanmik
    Member

    ok.. would have been an idea to frame the title and the OP a little bit different then.. I get it is an emotional topic.. but as a non American (living in nowhere land) it is sometimes hard to understand where people are coming from, and what the purpose of some stuff is.

    Thanks for clarifying it though.
     
  28. graywolf323

    graywolf323
    Member

    ehhhh that's not quite right, Lewis Latimer (you spelled his name wrong) actually worked for Thomas Edison (after the carbon filament which he created while working for Edison's rival Maxim) and he is indeed properly credited for inventing the method to create the carbon filament

    did he invent the light bulb? no, but he did invent the part that made it work for 100+ years and is by no means erased from history

    http://invention.si.edu/innovative-lives-lewis-latimer-1848-1928-renaissance-man
     
  29. newmoneytrash

    newmoneytrash
    Member

    Whether a kid knows a dance before fortnight or not is irrelevant. The fact that they don't credit the origin of them in any way is the issue, and the way they claim ownership over something they have stolen

    A child's cultural knowledge doesn't excuse Epic for acting this way
     
  30. DigitalOp

    DigitalOp
    Member OP

    Alright dude, tell me how to feel.

    You got it.

    [​IMG]
     
  31. Kenagain

    Kenagain
    Member

    • User Banned (7 days): Trolling, arguing in bad faith and dismissing concerns of minorities
    It’s incredible the lengths people will go to to get offended about something... it’s a dance
     
  32. Speak for yourself. I'd hit that Carlton first.

    Nothing is getting erased OP. It's American culture. Black culture is a subculture of greater American culture. Greater meaning larger before anyone gets upset.
     
  33. DigitalOp

    DigitalOp
    Member OP

    Well duh, I wouldn't know about him if he was erased from history.

    The point is they don't tell or teach you about him. They sure rammed Thomas Edison down your throat though.
     
  34. RockmanBN

    RockmanBN
    Member

    Yeah I'm not engrossed at all with my Latino heritage so It doesn't bother me at the slightest. Though I do see where OP is coming from.
     
  35. Gravy Boat

    Gravy Boat
    Member

    So you're saying that anyone who doesn't care about Fortnite not giving credit to the creators of the dances they use, is a racist who doesn't care about black people issues? Because that's all I'm disputing here.

    I'm not missing anything, I'm disputed the idea that anyone who doesn't care about this issue is racist towards black people, because this specific issue isn't specific to black people.
     
  36. AkimbOb-omb

    AkimbOb-omb
    Member

    I see we are doing this thread again and it doesn't go down any better then last time. No one wants to "copyright body moves" for christ sake. Maybe just acknoledge that here is an issue here worth talking about?

    "There is a long history of this" doesn't even start to describe how every single time black artists created new forms of art when it comes to music it was adapted to make it sellable to white America over the course of the last houndred years.

    Jazz, Blues, Soul, Rock'n'Roll, Funk, HipHop, Techno. You name it.
     
  37. Well... until they're taken to court and it's proven otherwise, individual dance moves by themselves are not copyrightable or ownable intellectual property, so Epic aren't doing anything wrong, legally. How are Epic then "claiming ownership"?
     
  38. DigitalOp

    DigitalOp
    Member OP

    We only become a part of American culture when its convenient or when what he have can be sold. Otherwise it remains with Black Culture where it can be demonized on FOX News.

    I've said this like 3 times in this thread already.

    The fact that this is all you're concerned with, tells me what I need to know about how seriously you take this and whats important to you.
     
  39. Inuhanyou

    Inuhanyou
    Member

    I think that's obvious. The question is, is fortnite dances the right topic to address that.

    "black music really has gotten fucked when it comes to white culture appropriating our designs" is a much better conversation topic whether some fortnite dance is giving credit to some individual artist.
     
  40. Shmunter

    Shmunter
    Member

    So black people don’t annoy him when they call it a Fortnite dance, only white people annoy him? Or black people always acknowledge the original dance? Are the whites deliberately robbing this man of the recognition he deserves or are just ignorant unlike the blacks? It’s difficult to piece this all together.
     
  41. Mass_Pincup

    Mass_Pincup
    Member

    Fortnite dances is an exemple of appropriating black culture, repackage it and then calling it your own. Asking for all culture to be represented, while true and needed, doesn’t undermine the point OP made because black culture in the US is intricately linked with broader US culture. You’re equating the erasure of a “sub culture” to a foreign culture. The relation, history and reasoning between them aren’t the same.

    Because everyone is calling it the Moonwalk and everything is crediting MJ. It’ll be like if MJ did it and then Justin Bieber or Justin Timberlake came around did the exact same move, called it something else and got credited for it.
     
  42. Inuhanyou

    Inuhanyou
    Member

    I'm just going off of OP's trajectory, he seems to want to talk about all cultures, but also wants to make it about black folk specifically. Even i have a hard time following.
     
  43. Redfox088

    Redfox088
    Member

    Reappropiating black culture for popular entertainment is as old as slavery.
    [​IMG]
     
  44. AkimbOb-omb

    AkimbOb-omb
    Member

    Is it though? Judging by a lot of replies in this thread we're not quite there.
     
  45. Gravy Boat

    Gravy Boat
    Member

    Yes, not wanting to call people racists for not caring about an issue that isn't specific to one race is important. You're absurd if you genuinely think that the only reason people wouldn't care about this is because they don't care about black people issues. The overall issue that you're talking about, with Epic not crediting these creators, is a valid one but you're trying to turn it into white people hating black people, which is not what this issue is.
     
  46. Inuhanyou

    Inuhanyou
    Member

    Maybe so.
     
  47. Mass_Pincup

    Mass_Pincup
    Member

    The OP responded to whataboutism.

    Yes all culture should be credited for what they brought to the table, but he’s focusing on the particular charged history of black culture appropriation and the erasure of the people actually creating that stuff.

    The original post is pretty clear.
     
  48. Stop It

    Stop It
    Member

    That's just stealing from others and calling it your own.

    If you use something, even if it's not legally protected, it's common decency in the creative industries to reference the source.

    You see segments of music sampled all of the time in the music world and they're always credited. This should be no different.

    Use the original dance move names, give credit where it's due. It's not just about money but respect for the culture you're deriving your works from.
     
  49. DigitalOp

    DigitalOp
    Member OP

    You're thread whining so hard.

    I haven't had black people call it the "Fortnite Dance". I've heard this from white people exclusively.

    My friends and I will dance, and when the move comes out, white people point and say "look! he's doing the Fortnite hahaha"
     
  50. Kenagain

    Kenagain
    Member

    You’ve really gotta be trolling at this point
     
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